Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

#51
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

[font:Comic Sans MS][/font]Hey there,

I just registered here and am Noob to the extreme. The acronyms around here make my swim, but your Cognomen got my attention!

I am beginning to look for a replacement rifle for my Rem. 700BDL, which was chambered in .338 RUM.

Whilst I just stuck to the basic numbers in reloading it (82gr IMR 4350, pushing a 225gr Hornady SST), I fell in love with the RUM.

I've come to hate the Lapua, the mention of it, and the ubiquitous Choir preaching it.

Why? Because everybody and their brother thinks it's the Feline's Vocalization, it's made overseas (by and large, while I love Finland and the Finns-Rovaniemi is still in a tie with Wien and Porto for Top City in all of Europe..., how about some American Made support, from Americans?)

What I've decided to attempt, is to find a solidly built, reliable, and reasonably priced Semi-Auto in .338 RUM.

So far I've gotten close, finding RND Edge Rifles in Longmont, CO, which produces a nicely built (as far as one can tell from photos) rifle in .300 RUM.

They also build similar rifles in the hated Lapua, and in a caliber they call the .375 Super Magnum (no idea, I just found the company last night online), the .408 Cheytac and of course, a 50 BMG.

My reason for posting to you is to hopefully find out if you've come across anyone building a quality Semi-Auto in .338 RUM?

Thanks for your time...and sorry for the belly-aching....I'm just so tired of hearing/seeing the cheering for the Lapua.

Later Gator.
 
#52
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Get Remington to produce quality brass and you may see more suport for the RUM. Until they start making Laupa quality brass I'll avoid their brass and their ammo.
 
#54
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Got my 300 gr .338 Bergers. Here are the first 5 for my .338 Lapua. I will shoot these at 300 yards tomorrow as I work back up the reduced starting load. If all goes well I might have a 1000 and a 1400 yard group by the end on the day.

Jeff

DSC02307.jpg
 
#57
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HiCapMag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff, would you mind posting, if you have the info, the length from base of case to ogive for each bullet, using a comparator of course.

Thanks </div></div>

The length of the Berger bullets average 1.830" OAL. The length of the Berger from base to Ogive with compensator is .965". These are seated to a base of case to ogive of bullet length of 2.957" That is .062" off the lands of my rifle. That makes them roughly 3.822" OAL. I seated them at the same distance off the lands that the 300 SMK's shot well in my rifle to start. This makes the loaded Berger cartridge .106" longer OAL than with a SMK seated at the same Ogive depth. Hope this answeres your question.

Jeff
 
#58
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where can these be purchased from? </div></div>

Sinclair, but your might be late in the game.
 
#59
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The length of the Berger bullets average 1.830" OAL. The length of the Berger from base to Ogive with compensator is .965". These are seated to a base of case to ogive of bullet length of 2.957" That is .062" off the lands of my rifle. That makes them roughly 3.822" OAL. I seated them at the same distance off the lands that the 300 SMK's shot well in my rifle to start. This makes the loaded Berger cartridge .106" longer OAL than with a SMK seated at the same Ogive depth. Hope this answeres your question.

Jeff </div></div>

Good info Jeff,

How about a pic of the bullet next to the loaded round to see how much of the base is in the powder column...if yah could!
 
#60
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

CigarcopGood info Jeff said:
About .180" Below the start of the shoulder. But remember I am starting .062" off the lands. One of the features of this bullet is that is is supose to be less sensitive toseating depth, if so I will sneak it out to look for a sweet spot. That being said I hope to stay .020" off to get a more consistant ES. I am at 90 gr of H-1000 to start with these, my most accurate load was 92.5 gr in my rifle (work up!). With the 90 gr and a Berger I still have plenty of room in the case to spare like I did with the 92.5 and a SMK. This is why I never seen the value of going AI in the 338 Lapua. I have yet to run out of room and I use shelf dies with no fireforming needed.

I also weighed about 10 of the Bergers. They are running like the SMK's 299.9 to 300.2 with the majority being 300.0.

Jeff

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DSC02309Small.jpg
Click to expand...
 
#63
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

It is dead calm with sunny skys here this morning. Right after we get home from Church there will be 338 Bergers in the air of Montana.. LOL. Hope it stays calm today!! I will have more data later.

Jeff
 
#65
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cheese</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff,
Do you think that seating that long bullet down in the powder column will affect your accuracy? </div></div>

No, I don't. The O-give to base of the bullet is only .006" longer than the 300 SMK's. So this means the base is .006" lower than the smk's were seated to the same seating depth measureing off the O-give of the bullet. The extra .104" of length that the 300 gr Berger has is forward of the o-give.

So things are very close to the same as far as inside the case. And this rifle shoots very well with the 300 SMK's.


Jeff
 
#66
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right after we get home from Church there will be 338 Bergers in the air of Montana..</div></div>

Awesome, can't wait to hear feedback on these things, for a while there I was wondering if the .338's were ever going to come out. Where did you get the bullets at Jeff?
 
#67
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Scott, before you think about these bullets get a hold of Jimmy(maybee you already have?).

PM sent.
Chad
 
#69
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

OK Guys here is the first five and details.

Not the typical group for this rifle but please keep these things in mind.

1: High noon bright sun and the mirage was aweful.. cross hairs were moving 2 to 3" even when I turned the scope down. So I shot this at 32x and did what I could.

2: Since the mirage was so bad I simply shot the group with no cool time.

3: 7 mph variable 3 to 4 oclock wind

4: Fresh cleaned bore this morning with 3 dry patches after cleaning and no fouling rounds.

5: Reduced starting load , last time I increased the load 2.5 gr with this rifle it cut the groups in half. So I am optimistic these Bergers will too.

On a Positive note:

Almost 3/4 moa on the first try I am sure I will do better when mirage lays down.

Take off that low one and the other 4 are under 1/2 moa.

P O I has the same elevation as SMK's at 300 yds which is my zero on this rifle.

More later!

Jeff

DSC02312Small.jpg









Just shot the 92.5 gr loads. At 300 they were .5 moa high and at 500 they were still 1/2 moa high. The migage is still killer but the wind has settled a bit. As you can see they are showing promise. I had one I pulled but the other 4 look good. The load is a bit hot for 75 degrees and sunny. I may back it off for the next group I think it would be happy at 91.5 gr. Then I need to play with seating depth. For the 500 yard group I simply left the velocity the same and plugged in the .891 bc. It called for 4.75 moa. If you take off the .5 moa it was high at 300 zero it would be pretty close at 500 using that BC.

DSC02313Small.jpg
 
#73
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

The 300 gr. Bergers show a lot of potential for me. I was working up loads today. Some interesting facts. I loaded the same powder charge and seating depth for my 300 gr Sierra Match Kings and here is what I found. Over the chronograph they shot 30 fps faster. I am sure it is because they have less bearing surface. They tend to like to be seated out closer to the lands than the Match Kings. I am 20th off with the Sierra's and the Bergers like to be within 10. the two smallest groups I got were 1.85 inches and 2.34 inches at 700 yards. The mirage was bad and that is great for me.
Gun specs:
Lawton 34 inch 10 twist barrel 7500 action.
Lapua brass
Fed 215 match primer
93.5 gr H 1000
5 th off lands
Nightforce 5.5 X 22 mil dot
Oehler chronograph

Guther
 
#74
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Guther that is great shooting. I may have to try them closer to the lands and some 215's. Nice shooting!!!



I did get one of those groups today. Once the sun was low and the mirage died. My 3 shot group at 1000 yrds. The pic looks smaller but it is 2 1/4" c/c

Man they are hard on my target too.

Jeff

DSC02315Small.jpg


DSC02316Small.jpg
 
#76
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Thats funny about the seirra bullets i jam them .025 i also jam the lapua scenars the same depth and they both shoot out of my gun. I think berger might have hit a home run with these bullets. I cant wait til thursday to shoot mine only differance ill be shooting H4350.
 
#77
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Some added info. Two of my buddy's are shooting RE 25 and they are having good results as well. The bullet seens to shoot well in several differend loads. They all have 1 in 10 twist barrels.
 
#79
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DoubleGobble00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got 250 of the berger 300 grain hybrids in the mail last week. Now if I could only get my gun finished I could post up some results.

DoubleG </div></div>

I know the feeling all too well DG !
 
#80
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Sinclair is now out of the .338 Bergers!!! The good new is they have more ordered and hopefully have them soon.
Guther
 
#82
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

I loaded up a batch of the new Berger 300 grain .338's and had a blast last week. My kid just loved following the vapor trail in on the target thru the spotting scope.
 
#85
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right after we get home from Church there will be 338 Bergers in the air of Montana..</div></div>

It doesn't get much more American than that!!
 
#86
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guther that is great shooting. I may have to try them closer to the lands and some 215's. Nice shooting!!!



I did get one of those groups today. Once the sun was low and the mirage died. My 3 shot group at 1000 yrds. The pic looks smaller but it is 2 1/4" c/c

Man they are hard on my target too.

Jeff

DSC02315Small.jpg


DSC02316Small.jpg
</div></div>

Doesn't look like they were as hard on your targets as those two 50cal AP rounds above and to the left
wink.gif

But nice shooting!
smile.gif

I am waiting on a trial box of these from Powder Valley.(Meaning I only bought 50, not that they are giving away trial bullets)

madd0c
 
#88
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Just wanted to share some more results with the 300 Hybrids. I am shooting them out of my 338 Lapau Mag. 27 1/2" Lilja 10 twist at 2785 MV. I have the ES in the single digets and have had a few 1000 yard groups with 1" vertical. Both accuracy and consistancy are awesome! Consistant.5 moa to 1400, and the one and only group at 1500 was under 1 moa. I now have 100 down range and have my drops at 800, 995, 1177, 1395 and 1500 all spot on with a trajector curve using G1 BC of.820 and my MV of 2785. Also in a drift test at 800 yards, I shot back to back groups with the 300 Hybrids and the 300 SMK's. My results showed the Berger to have both less Spin drift and substantially less wind drift. Like 8 to 10 inches.

I am very high on this bullet. In fact I am stocking up as I feel the long range expansion will be great is my lowly little .338 LM. That test is next.

FWIW

Jeff
 
#90
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice work documenting your adventures to date with teh Bergers.

JeffVN </div></div>

Thanks Jeff, I am pretty excited with the results. I just bought another 500 of the Hybrids. Now I want to see them in meat at 1000.

Jeff
 
#91
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Thanks for the feedback on the new Berger 300gr. I am quickly deciding that a new .338LM is in my near future and is set up for this bullet.

I have one question though. I know there are several here that use QUICKLOAD (Ballistics Program). I have found it to be extremely useful and accurate. I ran some of the loads listed in this thread through QUICKLOAD and found that shooting the Berger 300's with 93.5gr H1000 and Fed 215 primers gives a chamber pressure of around 81,000psi. The redline for QUICKLOAD is 55,000psi.

Could it be that this 55,000psi redline is based on factory chambers and not match grade actions and heavy barrels that can handle the higher pressures.

Are you simply using the extractor marks, blown primer, sticky bolt lift method to determine maximum load???

I am most definitely not bashing anyone here....just trying to figure out how people are getting the velocities they get without blowing their guns up (according to QUICKLOAD).

Thanks again for the reports, please keep them coming.
 
#92
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thelubiaks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ran some of the loads listed in this thread through QUICKLOAD and found that shooting the Berger 300's with 93.5gr H1000 and Fed 215 primers gives a chamber pressure of around 81,000psi. The redline for QUICKLOAD is 55,000psi.

Could it be that this 55,000psi redline is based on factory chambers and not match grade actions and heavy barrels that can handle the higher pressures.

Are you simply using the extractor marks, blown primer, sticky bolt lift method to determine maximum load???

</div></div>

I don't have quick load. I have never been above 92.5 gr of H-1000 with a 300 gr bulet and a CCI 250 primer. At that point with the Hybrids I had a slight cratoring of the primer and just a faint shadow of an ejector pin. and maybe a slight bit of drag on the bolt lift. So I backed off to 91.5 gr and all was happy. But I can assure you this load is know where near 81,000 psi. Maybe 55 to 58,000. So I think I would look for some miss information wth your program.

Jeff
 
#93
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Shawn Carlock is running 93 grains of H1000 in his 338 edge with the Bergers and he's reporting awesome results out to 1,700 yards with no pressure issues...Keep in mind not all guns are the same...So Im going to order some up and try em. I will load at half grain intervals to 93 grains and see what happens.

Also, different actions handle more and less pressure. I can't recall, but my BAT action is rated at a much higher pressures than the standard Remington.

my two cents
zman
 
#94
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot1760</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shawn Carlock is running 93 grains of H1000 in his 338 edge with the Bergers and he's reporting awesome results out to 1,700 yards with no pressure issues...Keep in mind not all guns are the same. zman</div></div>

zman, where did you read this? I would like to read it too. Not that I doubt the 93 gr. charge at all. I am sure my rifle would do it too. But it would be max. I would just be interested in more first hand data for the 300 Bergers.

You are correct, all rifles are different. I have laoded for 2 300 wins with 210's and one was max at 77 gr and the other 74. Thus the golden rule.. "always work up"

Jeff
 
#95
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

Broz,

I was very reluctant to post tihs cause, as we said, every gun is different and what works for one gun may not work for all. Here is the background on the 93 grains of H1000.

One of my gunsmiths (and long range shooting instructor) told me this yesterday.

Anyhow, last year I did not wish to wait for a 338 edge to be built, so I bought his shop rifle a standard 338 edge with Rem action. I loved the gun it shot very well and I dumped like 200 rounds down the barrel. Later last summer, he had another shop rifle that was a 338 edge w/ a BAT action and a huge muzzle break. I shot this rifle at one of his classes and fell in love with it. Later I ended up giving him back his first rifle and I bought the 2nd rifle with the BAT action.

I was with him yesterday and he mentioned that he was getting awesome results out of the first rifle (my old rifle) to 1,700 yards and loading it to 93 grains.

Now keep in mind that just because it shoots ok in his first rifle, it don't mean it will in anything else. However, I have a BAT action, so I expect that it should be ok.

REGARDLESS it is mandatory that anyone start with small loads first. I will start with 90 grains of H1000 and look real close for signs of pressure issues,,,primers, extraction, brass etc.

Hope that helps,,,also,,,,are you ordering your bergers through Sinclair??
 
#96
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

One thing I would caution is different lots of H1000. In my Edge I was using 93 grains with no pressure and excellent results. I ran out, and then went and bought an 8lb. jug and I have had to back off to 89.5 grains to get the same velocity. My ES is a little higher with this new lot as well.
 
#98
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

I just got a remington 700p 338 lapua and some 300 gr hybrids and am going to start loading. A bunch of people are starting out at 90 grains and working up. however bergers load data shows 88 grains as being max. I am new to this and just got the rifle so i dont want to mess it up is the 88 grains way under the max.
 
#99
Re: Got Some Berger 338 300 grain bullets!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: noack920</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I am new to this and just got the rifle so i dont want to mess it up is the 88 grains way under the max. </div></div>

88 grains of what?

Jeff
 
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