Timin, you’re literally here preaching theories that are debunked forever ago, and projection that I’M the troll. Look in the mirror. Just don’t smile.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Group size goes small to large and back to small
- Thread starter MR&R
- Start date
Hey "Pizza Box", don't you go inserting hypothetical conditions!
Dude, you asking members to state their real names is fucked up. You either engage in online discourse with an anonymous online personality and grant credence to the content, or you move on. WTF? Are you into doxing? You know that doxing in most all states in illegal? If you don't know what I am talking about. Google.
Uh no I am not . You just want to attack any one wanting info while hiding behind your fake name. Troll.
2 SD. That’s why.
You come in here on your first day touting that you make 2 SD ammo, and you’re gonna get what you deserve.
You come in here on your first day touting that you make 2 SD ammo, and you’re gonna get what you deserve.
Did it ever occur to you the he was touting 2 SD with those given shots applied at the target .
That’s just it , you don’t know that you just claim you do . To claim SD or ES within a given amount of shots is plausible . Get over it . If they say within 100 shots well yea but he didn’t say the amount of shots that determined that .
He knows as much about statistics as he does about ballistics...
When you relate each shot poi to velocity you can learn a lot . You should try it some day .
let’s say if you watch 1500 yd groups form on every shot , the ES is 9 fps , not saying that is that way after 20 shots . But in that group the es was 23 The vertical in the group measured 5 inches . But I calculated it to be 12 inches so that particular group was inside of the calculated vertical. The next group has 17 es and was also inside of the calculated vertical with 4 inches . Then the next group was 20 ES with 5 inches of vertical . So three groups showed well inside of calculated vertical . Then I change the weight on the muzzle . Now we have 20 ES with 20 inches of vertical , next group 18 fps ES with 18 inches of vertical . The third group has 26 inches of vertical with 22 ES . What just happened?
This is another tuner thread now, brought to you by Timtamtuner.
I firmly believe in statistics but all after the rifles are set up . Never said to not use statistics . But not going to preach redundantly .
Troll lol. Just like 10,000 dollars reward right ? Just showing how to apply the poi to velocity.
There is some evidence that this could be an issue. Longer shots mean higher trajectory, Higher trajectory might put the bullet just high enough to clear a edy in the winds. Thus, the groups at longer ranges might get to be smaller. However, all other factors the same (no wind eddies, swirls around trees etc) then the groups would / should be proportional as the range extends
caveat, proportional as the range extends no longer applies once the bullet enters the transonic zone.
Why.are you hating on me just cause I can load ammo better than you and what difference does it make that today's my fist day as a member of SH? Are you implying that only member of this shit slinging site are the only one who can load and shoot or are you implying that you can only learn by being a member here?
Stop being so jealous of me and get over yourself.
I came to this site for some educate insights. Instead I get a bunch of childish remarks and responses with a few people trying to help but being interrupted by people that just want to trash talk and tell.me to STFU. I started this thread and yall came in my house talking trash. Tokay said "it's the same stuff over and over...." Heres your solution, don't read the threat if your tired of all the "some stuff". You don't have anything better to do than to read threads that your sick of seeing? How miserable are you to put yourself through such agony.
If by "nobody" you mean you and your Tokay friend, you haven't been any help from the beginning. You've only been a distraction.
I didn't realize you are the spokesperson for everyone on this site. Was I supposed to come to you for permission to speak? What an arrogance!
Have another drink. And yes. You stuffed a quarter in your ass and played yourself here. Bye
I’m glad I dropped back in to find this little bit of total horseshit. So I could say: Thats fucking nonsense.
Absolutely none of the group shooting disciplines measure group in the vertical only and although you might shift the point of impact such that the point of aim is not destroyed, and thus harder to hold consistently, you don’t get to claim a group is any intentional pattern.
Let me make sure im clear on you point of view. If i am working a load and shot 10 rounds to see what they will do, if i aim at the X but move my reticle to the left by 2 MOA, the 10 holes to the left of the X is NOT considered a group. Is that what you are saying?
No, what he's saying is that if someone says something like "I'm shooting .5moa @ 1k yards" but they are only referencing the vertical, that's not a "group" insofar as to say that you shoot .5moa @ 1k.
You may not have been attempting to factor in wind, but you can't say that wind is the only reason for your horizontal.
So, if your entire cone of impacts is not within .5 moa, you can't say you're shooting .5moa. You can only say that you are holding .5moa of vertical at 1k.
Sounds like semantics, but there's a very significant difference in being a .5moa rifle and/or shooter and something/someone holding .5 moa of vertical.
You may not have been attempting to factor in wind, but you can't say that wind is the only reason for your horizontal.
So, if your entire cone of impacts is not within .5 moa, you can't say you're shooting .5moa. You can only say that you are holding .5moa of vertical at 1k.
Sounds like semantics, but there's a very significant difference in being a .5moa rifle and/or shooter and something/someone holding .5 moa of vertical.
My solution for group size. Once I get the dope squared away, I shoot minute of steel. If all the shots land at 700, 800, 900 or further, I am happy. If it appears that the shots appear to be tightly clustered at the 700 yard target I am very happy. If those pesky 1, 1.5 and 2 MOA circles/squares/diamonds are all hit, I have a big smile on my face.
You can burn out barrel after barrel after barrel trying to shoot those magical one hole groups and never get it truly squared away. And, unless you are a dedicated bench rest shooter what’s the point? Afterall this is Snipershide, not Bench Rest Shooters Guide.
Below is my idea of a great group, first shot, 600 yards
You can burn out barrel after barrel after barrel trying to shoot those magical one hole groups and never get it truly squared away. And, unless you are a dedicated bench rest shooter what’s the point? Afterall this is Snipershide, not Bench Rest Shooters Guide.
Below is my idea of a great group, first shot, 600 yards
The DOPE I wrote down was .1 Mil more correction.
This was all after:
200 yards, 7 Rem Mag hunting rifle.
Savage in 338 LM. 800 yards. Figure the bullets go to sleep around 450-465 yards. All day every day. Top left was a pull called by me. Otherwise 1/4 moa easy
Humans in general hate simple answers for some reason. And the only thing we hate worse than simple answers, is no answer at all. Hence so many conspiracy theories. Instead of admitting that we either don't know or admitting the simple solution is what likely happened, we have to make up these elaborate stories of intricate detail. And we hate to think that most things in life are random and without a deeper purpose. That would mean that either we or some other person or higher power might not be in charge......which would in turn make us feel pretty inconsequential and powerless.
The shooting community is no different as we are just people.
We've gone so far as to actually believe we are able to figure out and control micro vibrations in a steel barrel so much so that we can time the exit of a bullet leaving the barrel.
Literally with $500 worth of equipment in our basement on a Sunday afternoon in our free time. And then we claim that we are able to prove in our backyard what scientists with radar are unable to observe.
Because the easy and most likely answer that all our shots fall exactly where they should in the normal distribution model would me we aren't in complete control of everything.
Same idea when we start down the road of very odd ideas such as bullet gyration. No one wants to do the work required to eliminate the easy/likely answers and jumps straight into the extremely complicated explanations.
The shooting community is no different as we are just people.
We've gone so far as to actually believe we are able to figure out and control micro vibrations in a steel barrel so much so that we can time the exit of a bullet leaving the barrel.
Literally with $500 worth of equipment in our basement on a Sunday afternoon in our free time. And then we claim that we are able to prove in our backyard what scientists with radar are unable to observe.
Because the easy and most likely answer that all our shots fall exactly where they should in the normal distribution model would me we aren't in complete control of everything.
Same idea when we start down the road of very odd ideas such as bullet gyration. No one wants to do the work required to eliminate the easy/likely answers and jumps straight into the extremely complicated explanations.
I else where with my same question cause i felt like this site was only giving criticism, sarcasm and insults. The answer that he gave was exactly as you said, the gyration is unknown. He said the same thing i said, gyration isnt change of direction but change in stability. The results on paper is ONLY for theis particular load and the results are not the same with a different grain bullet.
Thank you for your thoughts.
I shot my first 600yrd Fclass competition about 3 years ago. (Only been to 2) I went with a stock gun and stock ammo and was WAY out classed in equipment. After the shoot, several of the shooters came to me offering suggestions and recommendations. I was impressed that the gentleman i was in competition with was offering to help me get better. That was my first impression of this sport and the people involved in it. The after years of trying to learn the techniques of reloading and LR shooting on my own, i signed up for SH and quickly learned that not everyone in this sport is a gentleman. After this experience, id rather go back to learning on my own. I spend 2 day reading a couple of good resourceful information buried in 20x's the amount of garbage and chest beating.
Whats your ammo? My 338 has been a thorn. Everytime i get colse to a good load, the supplies run out.
Depending on the terrain features, mirage could be the culprit here.
A little bird was chirping in my ear
Did I hear 10k reward /litz
Just like I said in the tuner thread..before I was escorted out
II’ll pay travel and Ammo costs up front
If it doesn’t work out you guys need to pay your own way
Stipulation I or a designee get to watch
I’ll get some nda’s lined up so there is no foul play.
It’s that simple …and all this goes away once and for all.
Edit..forgot to add
I’ll pay 5k “to the winner “on top of the travel if Litz/data shows it’s actually “happening”
Last edited:
