Re: Gun just went off!!!!
rgr... sorry, I missed your post man...
I just wanted to get him squared away...
rgr... sorry, I missed your post man...
I just wanted to get him squared away...
-
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Gunsmithing Gun just went off!!!! (Please Read)
- Thread starter Lucks
- Start date
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing, when the screws ARE adjusted they should be painted with a drop of clear fingernail polish to seal them from backing out.
</div></div>
does it have to be clear because i use some glow in the dark sparkly nail polish that an old girlfriend gave me
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing, when the screws ARE adjusted they should be painted with a drop of clear fingernail polish to seal them from backing out.
</div></div>
does it have to be clear because i use some glow in the dark sparkly nail polish that an old girlfriend gave me
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing, when the screws ARE adjusted they should be painted with a drop of clear fingernail polish to seal them from backing out.
</div></div>
does it have to be clear because i use some glow in the dark sparkly nail polish that an old girlfriend gave me
</div></div>
quit lying... you know it's your daily wear... laffin'
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing, when the screws ARE adjusted they should be painted with a drop of clear fingernail polish to seal them from backing out.
</div></div>
does it have to be clear because i use some glow in the dark sparkly nail polish that an old girlfriend gave me
quit lying... you know it's your daily wear... laffin'
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
Wil,
Thanks again for the offer to help me out...damn good of you to offer to help a complete stranger out like that.
Deadly,
Thanks for all your help trying to figure out the problem. Like you thought, my gunsmith determined it was a worn out spring that was the problem. Not an adjustment issue.
Wil,
Thanks again for the offer to help me out...damn good of you to offer to help a complete stranger out like that.
Deadly,
Thanks for all your help trying to figure out the problem. Like you thought, my gunsmith determined it was a worn out spring that was the problem. Not an adjustment issue.
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
Thanks to all for your responses.
This event and this thread have been very informative about all the potential issues (due to the trigger and safety assembly) that can cause a gun to accidentally discharge.
Like I said, the gun passed every safety check right up until the point that it went off on its own!!!
If yall don't mind I may bump this topic a few times for the next week or so to keep it current. I feel like the information shared here could potentially save someones life.
Thanks again to everyone, please share your stories if you've had similar issues....it will help to keep us all safer.
Thanks to all for your responses.
This event and this thread have been very informative about all the potential issues (due to the trigger and safety assembly) that can cause a gun to accidentally discharge.
Like I said, the gun passed every safety check right up until the point that it went off on its own!!!
If yall don't mind I may bump this topic a few times for the next week or so to keep it current. I feel like the information shared here could potentially save someones life.
Thanks again to everyone, please share your stories if you've had similar issues....it will help to keep us all safer.
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If yall don't mind I may bump this topic a few times for the next week or so to keep it current. I feel like the information shared here could potentially save someones life.
Thanks again to everyone, please share your stories if you've had similar issues....it will help to keep us all safer. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If yall don't mind I may bump this topic a few times for the next week or so to keep it current. I feel like the information shared here could potentially save someones life.
Thanks again to everyone, please share your stories if you've had similar issues....it will help to keep us all safer. </div></div>
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
If your mother can make a lamp out of any inanimate object, I can do a trigger job on any firearm.
I reduce the 1) force, 2) take up, and 3) Over travel.
Often I am lazy and don't do all the Silver solder, drill, and tap routine to get the adjustments. Instead, I often just change the force with changes to the geometry, return spring, and polishing.
I do the slam the butt on the floor test.
I do the safety on, safety off test.
I play with it to make sure it works right.
But 3 weeks ago at first light and in freezing conditions at 3000 feet elevation, I got out of the car I was sleeping in and put my rifle on the ground with the bipod.
I turned the [firing pin blocking] safety off and the rifle went off.
There was an archer camped next to me in a tent, who woke up cussing for all he was worth in his little tent. I looked where the rifle was pointed. There were 8 antelope at 800 yards and 4 elk at 1200 yards, none hit or spooked.
Now the rifle is here next to me. I have increased the trigger return spring force. I have lubed it up. I have polished it up. But in all the playing I did right after the accidental discharge, I was never able to get it to drop the firing pin again.
All I can think is that it was partially temperature related.
If your mother can make a lamp out of any inanimate object, I can do a trigger job on any firearm.
I reduce the 1) force, 2) take up, and 3) Over travel.
Often I am lazy and don't do all the Silver solder, drill, and tap routine to get the adjustments. Instead, I often just change the force with changes to the geometry, return spring, and polishing.
I do the slam the butt on the floor test.
I do the safety on, safety off test.
I play with it to make sure it works right.
But 3 weeks ago at first light and in freezing conditions at 3000 feet elevation, I got out of the car I was sleeping in and put my rifle on the ground with the bipod.
I turned the [firing pin blocking] safety off and the rifle went off.
There was an archer camped next to me in a tent, who woke up cussing for all he was worth in his little tent. I looked where the rifle was pointed. There were 8 antelope at 800 yards and 4 elk at 1200 yards, none hit or spooked.
Now the rifle is here next to me. I have increased the trigger return spring force. I have lubed it up. I have polished it up. But in all the playing I did right after the accidental discharge, I was never able to get it to drop the firing pin again.
All I can think is that it was partially temperature related.
Re: Gun just went off!!!! (Please Read)
This kind of stuff scares me because I am new enough to this to not be familiar with the intricacies of trigger mechanics and their adjustments (sear engagement etc).
I recently ordered a Jewell replacement trigger for my Rem 700 (new w/X-mark trigger) and spec'd it tuned down to 2.5lbs. I installed it myself and had a rough time (should have been easy enough, I know) with the safety and bolt release sticking.
I corresponded with T-Bone at Timney and he offered to walk me through the adjustments. I finally decided to send it in and have him do it. Glad I did, as it came back working perfectly and is just what I wanted in the first place. I am happy to let it be right where it is at.
This kind of stuff scares me because I am new enough to this to not be familiar with the intricacies of trigger mechanics and their adjustments (sear engagement etc).
I recently ordered a Jewell replacement trigger for my Rem 700 (new w/X-mark trigger) and spec'd it tuned down to 2.5lbs. I installed it myself and had a rough time (should have been easy enough, I know) with the safety and bolt release sticking.
I corresponded with T-Bone at Timney and he offered to walk me through the adjustments. I finally decided to send it in and have him do it. Glad I did, as it came back working perfectly and is just what I wanted in the first place. I am happy to let it be right where it is at.
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: roar 327</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some old rem 700 had to be on fire to open the bolt and after triger jod was known to fire when removed form safe. new triger will fix it. </div></div>
Did you actually read the entire thread or just two posts into it? I am guessing you didn't read much since you didn't even bother to proof read your OWN post.
Thanks for your amazing insight.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: roar 327</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some old rem 700 had to be on fire to open the bolt and after triger jod was known to fire when removed form safe. new triger will fix it. </div></div>
Did you actually read the entire thread or just two posts into it? I am guessing you didn't read much since you didn't even bother to proof read your OWN post.
Thanks for your amazing insight.
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
Would anyone consider it be to late to add related material to this thread? I observe a lot of misconceptions related to this issue, that could be addressed for those that are actually interested in this subject - Yes I read all of the posts but not sure I want to expend the time to address all of the comments, maybe just a few??
I believe it is a design defect compounded by other foreseeable factors related to the trigger connector itself.
BobinNC
What you are describing is the Remington - Jan. 2, 1979 Product Safety Sub-Committee Minutes. Regarding the estimated 1% of 2 million effected rifles in the field,that would be about one (1) out of every 100 rifles... The record was not discussing field debris fouling the system, it was conveying an estimated percentage of rifles in the field that was potentially identified with a manufacturing defect that was never recalled...
Aug ><>
Would anyone consider it be to late to add related material to this thread? I observe a lot of misconceptions related to this issue, that could be addressed for those that are actually interested in this subject - Yes I read all of the posts but not sure I want to expend the time to address all of the comments, maybe just a few??
I believe it is a design defect compounded by other foreseeable factors related to the trigger connector itself.
BobinNC
What you are describing is the Remington - Jan. 2, 1979 Product Safety Sub-Committee Minutes. Regarding the estimated 1% of 2 million effected rifles in the field,that would be about one (1) out of every 100 rifles... The record was not discussing field debris fouling the system, it was conveying an estimated percentage of rifles in the field that was potentially identified with a manufacturing defect that was never recalled...
Aug ><>
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
Augustus,
It is never too late to add related material. I have no quarrel with your analysis. But what I was trying to say (and perhaps not effectively) was the illusion that if 1% are known defective (from Remington own records), then contra-wise the other 99% are therefore OK.
What I was trying to convey was the Mike Walker Designed trigger not only was an insipid design, in that 1% were bad from the get go, (and not recalled); but also that some other unknown or unknowable percentage of the "good" 99% are also subject to possible future failure of the floating trigger connector, due to the influence of debris, detritus, or gumming, or weak springs, or any combination thereof.
In re-reading my second post, I see that I did not articulate my position very effectively.
I guess I'm not smart enough to put it another way. If my posts have contributed to any "misconceptions" please set me straight.
Thanks,
Bob
Augustus,
It is never too late to add related material. I have no quarrel with your analysis. But what I was trying to say (and perhaps not effectively) was the illusion that if 1% are known defective (from Remington own records), then contra-wise the other 99% are therefore OK.
What I was trying to convey was the Mike Walker Designed trigger not only was an insipid design, in that 1% were bad from the get go, (and not recalled); but also that some other unknown or unknowable percentage of the "good" 99% are also subject to possible future failure of the floating trigger connector, due to the influence of debris, detritus, or gumming, or weak springs, or any combination thereof.
In re-reading my second post, I see that I did not articulate my position very effectively.
I guess I'm not smart enough to put it another way. If my posts have contributed to any "misconceptions" please set me straight.
Thanks,
Bob
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
Bob
Actually your initial post impressed me to some degree, because it was apparent that you have actually done some initial research of your own... And I thought to myself WOW! Overall, I thought the thread was somewhat informative, and people are starting to figure this out.
You are correct, all of them have the potential to malfunction. I believe the conditions are inherent of the design itself, which can be compounded by still yet other factors which produce conditions that make this system more susceptible to these malfunctions... all of which produce inadvertent discharges during various forms of manipulation of the arm.
Aug ><>
Bob
Actually your initial post impressed me to some degree, because it was apparent that you have actually done some initial research of your own... And I thought to myself WOW! Overall, I thought the thread was somewhat informative, and people are starting to figure this out.
You are correct, all of them have the potential to malfunction. I believe the conditions are inherent of the design itself, which can be compounded by still yet other factors which produce conditions that make this system more susceptible to these malfunctions... all of which produce inadvertent discharges during various forms of manipulation of the arm.
Aug ><>
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
In the interests of saving time, I am going to copy/paste some of my writing on this subject from other forums I have participated in discussion of this issue.
Lets start with the Product Safety Sub-Committee Minutes that Bob raised, then expound further into subsequent PSSC minutes concerning the issue of the "trick condition" that was identified by Remington in January of 1975.
Copy/Paste:
Remington has had safety related issues with their connector design fire control since day one, with the introduction of the M/721 in March of 1948. Although there was a special category of M/700 rifles manufactured before Jan of 1975 that is being referenced above, that were never recalled. These effected rifles have dimensional/tolerance stack up conditions and potential defects that compound deeper underlying design issues. As to the estimated effected rifles... Remington estimated that 1% of 2 million rifles in the field were susceptible to what they termed "the trick condition" and would subsequently fire on safety release under certain manipulation criteria.
In a Jan. 2, 1979 PSSC record which goes on the say "That would mean a recall would have to gather 2 million rifles JUST to find 20,000" rifles susceptible to the trick condition". And, "would undercut the message Remington planned to communicate to the public concerning safe gun handling," instead of recalling the effected rifles already in the field, referencing the Feb 23 1979 PSSC records concerning the issue of "safe gun handling" and "the Trick Condition" : this message was communicated to the public through SAAMI in 1979: "PSSC" = Product Safety Sub-Committee Records
1) always keep the muzzle pointed in a SAFE direction
2) Never trust a safety which is a mechanical device and can fail (Half safe is Unsafe)
3) Never touch the trigger while the safety is in the ON safe position.
A Hemmm...
There was not any specific mention of Remington rifles susceptibility to these functional factors that could potentially result in an inadvertent discharge.
It was Remington's position (Then and now) that it should not matter if there was a potential defect in these effected rifles in the field, if the first rule of safe gun handling was ALWAYS observed, no injury or death should be attributable to these conditions that lead to several forms of malfunctions that would ultimately cause inadvertent discharges. In their opinion human error was the main cause of these forms of accidents even if the rifle may fire without trigger contact being made.
Incidentally, in so many words, the trick condition is referenced in the July 11, 1950 Patent Application: " The value of any safety is proportional to the positiveness of its action. To this end we have found it to be essential that the safety means be so arranged that an inadvertent operation of the trigger while the safety is in the on safe position, will not condition the arm to fire upon release of the safety"
Further Remington developed a rifle with a 3 position safety to allow the user to unload the arm with the safety blocking the sear much as the current production M/700 at topic here, and yet allowed bolt lift to clear the chamber with the safety placed in an intermediate position. This was the M/725 designed by Clark Campbell and Wayne Leek, the M/725 was released to production in 1958. During the design efforts of the M/725, and because the M/721 and 722 safety was deemed "Inadequate" by management, because Remington was fielding complaints from customers for fire on safety release malfunctions. They considered discontinuing production of the M/721 and 722 or at the very leased incorporating the 3 position safety to these product lines, which history now shows never happened.
When the M/700 was released in 1962 Remington abandoned this prior art with regard to a 3 position safety to allow the user to unload the rifle with the sear blocked, as with the later design with the bolt lock deletion after Feb 26 1982 [To Quote] "to put the company in a more secure position with respect to product liability"[End Quote]
Lets start with that...
Aug ><>
In the interests of saving time, I am going to copy/paste some of my writing on this subject from other forums I have participated in discussion of this issue.
Lets start with the Product Safety Sub-Committee Minutes that Bob raised, then expound further into subsequent PSSC minutes concerning the issue of the "trick condition" that was identified by Remington in January of 1975.
Copy/Paste:
Remington has had safety related issues with their connector design fire control since day one, with the introduction of the M/721 in March of 1948. Although there was a special category of M/700 rifles manufactured before Jan of 1975 that is being referenced above, that were never recalled. These effected rifles have dimensional/tolerance stack up conditions and potential defects that compound deeper underlying design issues. As to the estimated effected rifles... Remington estimated that 1% of 2 million rifles in the field were susceptible to what they termed "the trick condition" and would subsequently fire on safety release under certain manipulation criteria.
In a Jan. 2, 1979 PSSC record which goes on the say "That would mean a recall would have to gather 2 million rifles JUST to find 20,000" rifles susceptible to the trick condition". And, "would undercut the message Remington planned to communicate to the public concerning safe gun handling," instead of recalling the effected rifles already in the field, referencing the Feb 23 1979 PSSC records concerning the issue of "safe gun handling" and "the Trick Condition" : this message was communicated to the public through SAAMI in 1979: "PSSC" = Product Safety Sub-Committee Records
1) always keep the muzzle pointed in a SAFE direction
2) Never trust a safety which is a mechanical device and can fail (Half safe is Unsafe)
3) Never touch the trigger while the safety is in the ON safe position.
A Hemmm...
There was not any specific mention of Remington rifles susceptibility to these functional factors that could potentially result in an inadvertent discharge.
It was Remington's position (Then and now) that it should not matter if there was a potential defect in these effected rifles in the field, if the first rule of safe gun handling was ALWAYS observed, no injury or death should be attributable to these conditions that lead to several forms of malfunctions that would ultimately cause inadvertent discharges. In their opinion human error was the main cause of these forms of accidents even if the rifle may fire without trigger contact being made.
Incidentally, in so many words, the trick condition is referenced in the July 11, 1950 Patent Application: " The value of any safety is proportional to the positiveness of its action. To this end we have found it to be essential that the safety means be so arranged that an inadvertent operation of the trigger while the safety is in the on safe position, will not condition the arm to fire upon release of the safety"
Further Remington developed a rifle with a 3 position safety to allow the user to unload the arm with the safety blocking the sear much as the current production M/700 at topic here, and yet allowed bolt lift to clear the chamber with the safety placed in an intermediate position. This was the M/725 designed by Clark Campbell and Wayne Leek, the M/725 was released to production in 1958. During the design efforts of the M/725, and because the M/721 and 722 safety was deemed "Inadequate" by management, because Remington was fielding complaints from customers for fire on safety release malfunctions. They considered discontinuing production of the M/721 and 722 or at the very leased incorporating the 3 position safety to these product lines, which history now shows never happened.
When the M/700 was released in 1962 Remington abandoned this prior art with regard to a 3 position safety to allow the user to unload the rifle with the sear blocked, as with the later design with the bolt lock deletion after Feb 26 1982 [To Quote] "to put the company in a more secure position with respect to product liability"[End Quote]
Lets start with that...
Aug ><>
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
Augustis,
Yes sir. I recall those remington documents as well. I also have been over the years a participant in mumerous dicussions on several other boards, notably 24 Hour Campfire and Accurate Reloading BBS.
Additionally I have had discussions with shooters face to face as well. And regrettably, their overall consensus is the same as Remington's. It really does not matter, to them.....
Some say they never use the safety anyway.
Some say they never carry a loaded rifle.
Some say they owned 10, 20, or 30 Rem 700's and NEVER had a problem, so there...
In my view:
I don't know how you would carry a fully loaded rifle, without using a safety? And if you did, how would that act be more safe, than to use the dang safety?
I don't how one would hunt, without loading the rifle at some point? And now once it is loaded, and you don't shoot at something, what do you do with it? Maybe that would work in Wyoming (or maybe not), and the nearest critter is 300-500 yds away. But it sure as hell does not work in say a dense forest somewhere, in that case 50 yds may be a long shot.
And no matter how many Remington 700's you've owned, never is a long time...
Another discussion point many make is that they "never" trust a safety. Well of course never "trust it", and always keep any loaded firearms pointed in a safe direction.
Once they have made that argument however, ask what kind of handgun they prefer. Most shooters will say the 1911 and it's true clones are the best. So then you ask them do or do you not carry your 1911 with the safety on or in condition 3? After they ponder that factoid for awhile, ask again about trusting a safety or not.
Thanks for the discussion,
Bob
Augustis,
Yes sir. I recall those remington documents as well. I also have been over the years a participant in mumerous dicussions on several other boards, notably 24 Hour Campfire and Accurate Reloading BBS.
Additionally I have had discussions with shooters face to face as well. And regrettably, their overall consensus is the same as Remington's. It really does not matter, to them.....
Some say they never use the safety anyway.
Some say they never carry a loaded rifle.
Some say they owned 10, 20, or 30 Rem 700's and NEVER had a problem, so there...
In my view:
I don't know how you would carry a fully loaded rifle, without using a safety? And if you did, how would that act be more safe, than to use the dang safety?
I don't how one would hunt, without loading the rifle at some point? And now once it is loaded, and you don't shoot at something, what do you do with it? Maybe that would work in Wyoming (or maybe not), and the nearest critter is 300-500 yds away. But it sure as hell does not work in say a dense forest somewhere, in that case 50 yds may be a long shot.
And no matter how many Remington 700's you've owned, never is a long time...
Another discussion point many make is that they "never" trust a safety. Well of course never "trust it", and always keep any loaded firearms pointed in a safe direction.
Once they have made that argument however, ask what kind of handgun they prefer. Most shooters will say the 1911 and it's true clones are the best. So then you ask them do or do you not carry your 1911 with the safety on or in condition 3? After they ponder that factoid for awhile, ask again about trusting a safety or not.
Thanks for the discussion,
Bob
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It may not be the fault of the trigger job and/or of the previous owner.
Some LE teams that teach/require use of the safety have had discharges that way, with injuries, with otherwise good (factory adjusted) triggers.
I never use the safety. Cover Safe is bolt up. </div></div>
Lets try to answer Grahams comment:
What the LE Sniper community is finally coming to realize is that the connector design fire control ALSO has a potential susceptibility to fire when the bolt is actuated - firing on bolt opening or closing. With that said, the bolt raised method may not be a suitable alternative for Snipers in an urban environment.
One poster mentioned that LE operators are instructed to aim the rifle at a suitable back stop before releasing the safety... I am aware of Departments taking that precaution. An operator will go for the shot only when it is determined the situation has degraded to the point that the shot must be taken to neutralize the threat of impending harm to civilians, or in a life or death situation, or after all other alternatives have been exhausted to peacefully resolve a situation. In this instance if the rifle were to inadvertently discharge could serve to escalate the situation that may be rapidly degrading, ultimately can result in immanent injury, or death to hostages by the Sniper, or the individual that was supposed to be neutralized by the shot that went astray, after the element of surprise has been lost by an instant incapacitation shot by the operator. This situation also presents a condition to exist for collateral damage, if the back stop were to cause bullet deflection into an area that the operator would not have dreamed, or intended to send the bullet intentionally, or further by over penetration of a surface in the AO. The possibilities are endless, but in the end the operator should have the ultimate control over when and where his weapon fires at the time and place of his choosing, if not its a disaster waiting to happen that will change his life forever!
For more info (to LE operators), review the ASA letter in the restricted area of the ASA web site, or contact Derrick if you or your Department has a need for this info:
http://www.americansniper.org/
Aug ><>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It may not be the fault of the trigger job and/or of the previous owner.
Some LE teams that teach/require use of the safety have had discharges that way, with injuries, with otherwise good (factory adjusted) triggers.
I never use the safety. Cover Safe is bolt up. </div></div>
Lets try to answer Grahams comment:
What the LE Sniper community is finally coming to realize is that the connector design fire control ALSO has a potential susceptibility to fire when the bolt is actuated - firing on bolt opening or closing. With that said, the bolt raised method may not be a suitable alternative for Snipers in an urban environment.
One poster mentioned that LE operators are instructed to aim the rifle at a suitable back stop before releasing the safety... I am aware of Departments taking that precaution. An operator will go for the shot only when it is determined the situation has degraded to the point that the shot must be taken to neutralize the threat of impending harm to civilians, or in a life or death situation, or after all other alternatives have been exhausted to peacefully resolve a situation. In this instance if the rifle were to inadvertently discharge could serve to escalate the situation that may be rapidly degrading, ultimately can result in immanent injury, or death to hostages by the Sniper, or the individual that was supposed to be neutralized by the shot that went astray, after the element of surprise has been lost by an instant incapacitation shot by the operator. This situation also presents a condition to exist for collateral damage, if the back stop were to cause bullet deflection into an area that the operator would not have dreamed, or intended to send the bullet intentionally, or further by over penetration of a surface in the AO. The possibilities are endless, but in the end the operator should have the ultimate control over when and where his weapon fires at the time and place of his choosing, if not its a disaster waiting to happen that will change his life forever!
For more info (to LE operators), review the ASA letter in the restricted area of the ASA web site, or contact Derrick if you or your Department has a need for this info:
http://www.americansniper.org/
Aug ><>
Re: Gun just went off!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If yall don't mind I may bump this topic a few times for the next week or so to keep it current. I feel like the information shared here could potentially save someones life.
Thanks again to everyone, please share your stories if you've had similar issues....it will help to keep us all safer. </div></div> </div></div>
Thanks again....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If yall don't mind I may bump this topic a few times for the next week or so to keep it current. I feel like the information shared here could potentially save someones life.
Thanks again to everyone, please share your stories if you've had similar issues....it will help to keep us all safer. </div></div> </div></div>
Thanks again....
