Yeah, I got some advice. First is find a safe/vault DISTRIBUTOR, they'll cost much less. Then find "scratch and dent" but be careful because many have glass relocker plates inside and you don't want that damaged. It can be inspected by opening the door that inside the door (it's a panel on some). What scratches and dents some of these safes is the same amount of force it takes to rip a car in half. Know also that dents can mean damaged material inside, as again, many are either lined with drywall or filled with concrete. Drywall for fire, concrete for fire and protection. The concrete will be that vibration settled high psi concrete. Many today, RSC's and high end safes, come with Palusol (sp?) strips along the door frame that swell and expand to seal the door during a fire. But know the concrete using the higher end TL rated safes will offer more protection than will drywall. That said, some use drywall in addition to the concrete because drywall is mostly water and doesn't burn. Know that a gun "safe" isn't technically a safe. It's an RSC, or "residential security container". This means it's been UL listed to stop a 5 minute attack against (I think it's always 2 big men, 6' 200lb. types) using HAND TOOLS with SHORT handles. Five fucking minutes against two assholes with hand tools. I bet you keep the hand tools and the safe in the same room so I wouldn't even have to bring my tools. Buy this to keep your kids out and to protect items against house fires that will be put out "soon". I say soon because with RSC's, they vary from none to fairly high fire ratings. RSC's may have a plate door and you may thing that's sufficient, but I'm here to tell you, thieves don't do doors. They go through the side. It peels open like a tuna can. I'm not kidding. If your door is laminated, I can peel that one too. A SAFE or VAULT as described by UL is put in a category based on protection. They go TL15, TL30, TL30X6, etc. "X6" is an upgrade rating, and highly recommended --it means the walls are the same rating as the doors, so I can't peel these fuckers open. The ones with higher ratings than that are torch proof and then blast proof. You WILL pay for one of those. But for most firearms owners, any one of those would be sufficient and far better than any RSC. Hands down. Problem is you'll need to buy the biggest one usually and they ain't cheap. Expect to spend $6000 for a TL30X6, that's scratch and dent for a dual locking vault. Six inches of steel hardened steel and reinforced concrete... Six tons of fun! In addition, TL rated safes have UL listings like RSC's but in several categories, or rather, the test dictates the category it'll go in. Here they have two big men using hand tools with long handles and powertools of their choosing. They deliver a sustained attack, if one guy takes a break, the other literally steps in without missing a hit. If they defeat it before 15 minutes. it'll be some type of high end RSC I imagine. If it takes longer than 15 minutes, it gets TL15 rating. If it takes 30 it gets a TL30 and so on, up to 90 or 120 IIRC. So it's obvious which one you want --you want a TL30X6. Or even a used bank vault, like from an older, smaller bank. I missed out on an awesome 8' vault with 2ft. thick door --building's new owner just wanted it gone, but I had no way of cutting that bastard free. These are killer deals because if someone has one of these and doesn't need it, it's like a giant fucking rock in the middle of the room! SO, look on CL! Have patience. I bought a used safe on CL, it was too small for rifles but is good for most other stuff (this is a typical problem, most of these safes aren't made for rifles but some of the bigger and nicer ones are and even have interiors). Then I got my big beast of a motherfucker later on. I won't go in to detail, sorry, but lets say attacking it is probably a waste of your time. The risk vs. reward here isn't worth it, I have multi million dollar protection for a multi thousand dollar investment! Overkill isn't a word used to describe safes, but I suppose you could infer that. On the safe, you can get different locks. I forget the name of the UL rated lock, the higher end Sarget-Greenleaf manual combo lock. If you can, get one with dual locks, combo and key. If I have enough time alone with your safe, I don't even need tools, I just need a pad of paper, a pencil and a steth. would be nice. If you have a key, doesn't matter if I can crack your lock or not, I'll still need the key. And they're not normal keys either, can't get 'em cut at the store and they have eight inch handles just to fit in the lock and they have to go through spring loaded shutters. These won't be picked, not unless that's been your 9-5 for the last 20 years or more. Now for tricks. One thing you can do is say "fuck it" and build a vault. If you are handy at construction, just build a hard to get to, solid concrete wall and pour it around a door you pre-purchase. Now you'll have a nice walk in, rating those is more difficult but also rarely necessary. Here you'll be able to dictate the entire project. If building a new house, this is definitely the way to go. If saving money and forced to go with an RSC all is not lost. The doors, though only having one lock, are usually pretty tough. If you install the RSC in a corner of a brick or concrete room and build a concrete wall on the opposite side (such that the safe is in a nook with only the door being accessible) this adds considerable protection, especially if the concrete is reinforced with rebar at least. IF you have the right setup, you can even forgo the safe and use concealment only. But this has to be shit tight. It can't be accidentally found or dead space reckoned from the outside (bigger on the outside than the inside for example). Buried cargo containers and shit come to mind as do false walls, etc. I left a lot out because I could go on forever on this. PM me if you need any specific advice regarding safes. If in Western WA or Northern Oregon I can point you to a good distributor. Yeah, you do in general get what you pay for but know that those ratings are those ratings, period. Some safes go in excess of what they test for, but the maker didn't pay for that test. Or they make it to 29minutes, 29 seconds and the stopwatch stops. It's not a TL30, it's still a TL15. This is a good thing to know, to know how they rate safes and vaults. These UL rated safes also have limits on what can be insured inside, so a large TL30X6 may be good for in excess of $5million? Small TL15 I think was good for $500,000 but times have changed. Most insurers demand or require you to have an X6 rated safe. Good luck, just go into this well informed because I promise you, most all of the guys selling these know fucking jack all. If you go to a distributor, you have a higher chance of finding someone that does know the product, probably find someone that knows 'em inside and out. Call around to lockpicks, on occasion they get free stuff including safes. Some resell them, some know where good ones are sitting for a good price. It'll be costly, but it'll be worth it in the long run. The better you get, the better off you'll be, the better you'll sleep. Finally, buy a goldenrod dehumidifier and one of those Driz-air or whatever the fuck they call it that uses pellets to suck the water out of the air. The combo of the two does pretty well at preventing rust. You want to use 'em both together because neither is totally reliable but the two together work pretty well. When installing wires in a vault, be very careful (you don't want a fire inside the damn thing) and you don't want a large hole in the vault for the wires. No hole is best, but I think 3/8" is the maximum size a hole can be in one. Just enough to fit a small piece of romex and a couple phone wires, enough for light and security. JB Weld the shit out of this hole, inside and out and pack it in good.
