Gun stuff or new car

[magtech]

So i drive an 04 car that is starting to rust fairly heavily. I'm sure it can get another 2-3 years out of it if i want to... I was thinking today if i forego a new car I can afford that much more in gun stuff.

Whats more important to you?

Newer vehicle; or optic upgrades, tripods, labradar, progressive reloaders, etc.

 

[FS1]

Is the range within walking distance?

 

[magtech]

I was thinking about taking the dozer and making a 1k range here... but that might take a year or two. Otherwise the 1k range is 45 miles away.

 

[Nik H]

Not having a dependable car is a PITA.

This is, after all, a hobby unless you are a paid gunfighter

 

[natdscott]

Don't be an idiot and put a hobby before reliable transportation. (unless public infrastructure is good enough) ((but then, if you live in a place like that, how will you get out of the city to a range?!))

Shop a few dealers and see what you can get in trade (probably $1,000 or less);
-- if that is not enough, then sell it outright on Craiglist, or whatever;
-- apply those proceeds to the vehicle purchase;
-- if financing will be needed, figure out what you want to buy, and secure financing OUTSIDE the dealer before you shop with them...I recommend you look at your local bank or two, and a credit union (TCU if they are around you);
-- by already having competitive financing OUTSIDE the dealer, you put pressure on them to make a better deal, and remove fees (because a Bank will almost ALWAYS charge a shitload less than a dealer);
-- be prepared to push HARD on fees, and financed fees. Glass etching is bullshit, and to make a sale, they will probably remove that $300 fee; the "
doc" fee is probably inflexible.
-- be prepared to pay your Tax, Title, and Plates from cash, if possible. Financing things for which you received basically no consideration if cutting your nose off to spite your face, playing the "short game",...whatever you want to call it;

-- buy a USED vehicle of 3-5 years old. You get COMPETITIVE financing still (don't expect 1.0%), but somebody ELSE payed the depreciation, so the COST of those vehicles, and the interest thereby accrued, is WAY outside tolerance for what the thing is actually worth;
-- by buying used--IF you take your time and really research HARD---you can find out about known issues with a given motor, transmission, etc. and
thereby reduce your risk of experiencing that failure.
-- ...and don't buy a first model year of anything.

The biggest rule of negotiation is, and will always be, that you have to be willing (and ABLE) to walk away. Don't wait until the current vehicle has a "major medical" and you are forced into a purchase...it puts the negotiating weight in the dealer's favor.


-Nate

 

[MtnCreek]

He's talking about taking his dozer to make a 1k range. I'm guessing he does not live in a city. But I'm kind of hoping he does.

 

[Redmanss]

If it will still get you from A to B safely and reliably, keep it. Now if you're taking rust damage to critical parts like the frame, control arms, spring mounts, etc, think seriously about that "safely" part above. Preventative maintenance against that rust will go a long way, but if you're in an inspection state that looks at that sort of thing, you might not want to get too caught off guard by failing and having to rush to find alternative transportation when you can't shop for the best deal.

Still though, I would put the money aside to pay for a newer vehicle outright down the road than dumping it into what amounts to "toys" for us. I'm personally against vehicle financing and see it as living above one's means. Save and invest that money, letting interest work for you instead of you making the banks even richer.

 

[Nik H]

[QUOTE=" I'm personally against vehicle financing and see it as living above one's means. Save and invest that money, letting interest work for you instead of you making the banks even richer.[/QUOTE]

Depends...I can make more investing that money than the financing costs. My last loan was 1.8% APR.

The way I do it is I put ZERO down and finance the whole thing for 5 years. I generally keep my cars for 8-10 years though so I get a few years of no payments.

 

[MtnCreek]

Redmanss, Very good advice re paying outright. Unless there's incentive financing, pay on the front end.

 

[Redmanss]

I'm not a fan of buying new vehicles either, I'll let someone else take the value hit than myself, and used financing rates are nowhere near new. With the latest and greatest consumerism and keeping up with the Joneses attitudes being all too prevalent today, there are way too many good deals to find in 3-5 year old vehicles and if you duck south of the salt line to get one (while checking the vehicle history too), you can easily find a rust free cherry of a vehicle at a great value.

With most newer vehicles requiring full synthetic oils to comply with federal efficiency requirements, even a somewhat poorly maintained vehicle isn't going to have excessive wear to the drivetrain. It's all too easy to reinvigorate a cheap but rough running vehicle with $300 to change all the fluids and do a bumper to bumper cleaning and tuneup of it. That may not be for everyone, I myself find wrenching fun and therapeutic, but it's easy to find a deal if you look and are willing to get dirty.

 

[Clearlight]

I’m wondering what vehicle rusted so bad in 14 yrs ? OP do you live near the sea or in a snowy
( salted road ) area ?

 

[...]

I’m wondering what vehicle rusted so bad in 14 yrs ? OP do you live near the sea or in a snowy
( salted road ) area ?

In the North east US, we essentially pave our roads in salt during the winter.

I undercoat my chassis in oil every year and still see rust

 

[Clearlight]

Ahh I see . I live in subtropical conditions , unless you drive on the beach here cars don’t rust
much .

 

[Maggot]

I just learned about this site that only sells formerly leased cars. Seem to have great prices.


www.offleaseonly.com

 

[vh20]

He's talking about taking his dozer to make a 1k range. I'm guessing he does not live in a city. But I'm kind of hoping he does.

THIS is the best post I've seen in weeks! Very well done!
We'll see that one get it's own thread from the news feed if that's the case.

 

[magtech]

I’m wondering what vehicle rusted so bad in 14 yrs ? OP do you live near the sea or in a snowy
( salted road ) area ?

I live in Michigan. There's no escaping the cancer of rust here

 

[magtech]

I cannot live in the city. About 600 yards of my range is either field or swamp so that's easy shooting. The rest would take a select path to get that range but it would be worth it.

I already have setups for 0-400y.. the plan is to not have to leave home to shoot. I did hit the prarue dog at 1050y today, it seemed too easy... The golf ball at 730 wasn't happening though.

Regarding the vehicle thing, I can buy one whenever. Just wondering what's more important to you guys... Newer gun stuff or newer car... I'm thinking wait a year or 2 n buy some tier 1 gear in the meantime.

 

[SilentStalkr]

If it will still get you from A to B safely and reliably, keep it. Now if you're taking rust damage to critical parts like the frame, control arms, spring mounts, etc, think seriously about that "safely" part above. Preventative maintenance against that rust will go a long way, but if you're in an inspection state that looks at that sort of thing, you might not want to get too caught off guard by failing and having to rush to find alternative transportation when you can't shop for the best deal.

Still though, I would put the money aside to pay for a newer vehicle outright down the road than dumping it into what amounts to "toys" for us. I'm personally against vehicle financing and see it as living above one's means. Save and invest that money, letting interest work for you instead of you making the banks even richer.

What kind of investments would you suggest if I just had $50k sitting around?

 

[MtnCreek]

https://www.machineguncentral.com/default.aspx

 

[168BTHPM]

Don't buy a new car, drive the one you have until it dies. Make sure you leave the title in the glove box, when it dies just sign the title, and toss the keys on the floor and walk away. Then what ever you do don't buy a new car, find a good clean low mileage used one. Let the dumbass who bought it new take the hit on the resale value. The money you will save on car payments will keep you shooting for years to come.

P.S. If you are transporting gun stuff in your car make sure you have a cart or at least a back pack big enough to carry everything away when your car dies.

 

[Redmanss]

What kind of investments would you suggest if I just had $50k sitting around?

The first investment would be in a good financial advisor to look at your specific situation. The only worse advice you can get on the internet than legal advice, is financial advice, especially from someone who's main claim to fame is being an old HOG. Start with your bank/credit union/whatever you use, ask them if they offer CFP services.

 

[mdmp5]

Priorities...guns over anything is a mistake. When you are talking about optics upgrades, that's a hobby.

 

[MtnCreek]

Guns over cars is smart investment. Generally speaking, cars suck more unneeded money out of us than anything else we purchase.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Don't buy a new car, drive the one you have until it dies. Make sure you leave the title in the glove box, when it dies just sign the title, and toss the keys on the floor and walk away. Then what ever you do don't buy a new car, find a good clean low mileage used one. Let the dumbass who bought it new take the hit on the resale value. The money you will save on car payments will keep you shooting for years to come.

I'm not sure about the law in MI, but here in TX, that would be pretty bad advice, as it's actually not legal to leave the keys in the car unattended and also someone could then get it going & drive around and all the fines, tickets, tolls etc would be on you to prove it was not you, and create a huge headache for you. Much better to just take it to a junkyard.

One other point is that the market for new vs used on recent good condition low mileage vehicles is changing quite a bit, if you have excellent credit can do the research and have plenty of time to wait for specific models to have large clearance incentives from the factory plus financing in the 0% to 0.9% range, you'll find you can often get a vehicle new for pretty much what others are trying to sell them for used. Especially in the small SUV and smaller truck segments as well as in the high fuel economy models. You also then factor in the fuel consumption, maintenance, downtime, residual value, taxes, tax rebates etc.

If you start out by knowing how many miles you drive each day & the average (not optimistic) cost of fuel which steadily trends up with inflation, then put all your vehicle choices in a big spreadsheet based on how long you think of keeping the vehicle, such as 5 years, 7 years, 10 years etc and how much you could sell the vehicle for at the end (based on when it's the best to sell it), you may find the data is different than quick assumptions.

Then considering the real rate of inflation is at least 3% per year, if you are getting sub 1% financing, it's an interesting thing to consider.

 

[mdmp5]

Guns over cars is smart investment. Generally speaking, cars suck more unneeded money out of us than anything else we purchase.

As an investment, sure. But I use my car every day, all day, and my guns, maybe 1x a week on average

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

I have always bought guns that were more expensive than the autos i drive,......for years!

 

[buffalowinter]

Insure your car heavily. Take it to WalMart. Leave the keys in it. WIN-WIN.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Then considering the real rate of inflation is at least 3% per year, if you are getting sub 1% financing, it's an interesting thing to consider.

What's the deal with this sub-percent financing? My best is 1.25%.

 

[W54/XM-388]

What's the deal with this sub-percent financing? My best is 1.25%.

I got 0.9% financing on my current vehicle so it was worth it to use it.
It's actually pretty common here in North TX if you have excellent credit & wait till the factory is trying to move overstocked models before the new model year comes in, or if something is selling less fast and they don't want it sitting in inventory too long on the lots.
There used to be a lot of 0% financing offers, but those are harder to find these days, most have gone to 0.xx% to make a couple dollars for their finance department.

 

[Maggot]

I'm not sure about the law in MI, but here in TX, that would be pretty bad advice, as it's actually not legal to leave the keys in the car unattended and also someone could then get it going & drive around and all the fines, tickets, tolls etc would be on you to prove it was not you, and create a huge headache for you. Much better to just take it to a junkyard.

One other point is that the market for new vs used on recent good condition low mileage vehicles is changing quite a bit, if you have excellent credit can do the research and have plenty of time to wait for specific models to have large clearance incentives from the factory plus financing in the 0% to 0.9% range, you'll find you can often get a vehicle new for pretty much what others are trying to sell them for used. Especially in the small SUV and smaller truck segments as well as in the high fuel economy models. You also then factor in the fuel consumption, maintenance, downtime, residual value, taxes, tax rebates etc.

If you start out by knowing how many miles you drive each day & the average (not optimistic) cost of fuel which steadily trends up with inflation, then put all your vehicle choices in a big spreadsheet based on how long you think of keeping the vehicle, such as 5 years, 7 years, 10 years etc and how much you could sell the vehicle for at the end (based on when it's the best to sell it), you may find the data is different than quick assumptions.

Then considering the real rate of inflation is at least 3% per year, if you are getting sub 1% financing, it's an interesting thing to consider.

I concur completely with all W54 says.

Getting the great 0%-.9% financing depends on your credit rating, time of year, and which vehicles the manufacturers and dealers are trying to move. Check out PenFed. they usually give great rates on used vehicles if you choose to go that route.

Before I buy I always check Consumer's Reports on reliability and features/handling. No matter how cheap it is its expensive if it dosant run.

 

[bab029]

I've been the guy fixing a vehicle in a parking lot, in the rain, late at night so that I could get to work in the morning.

Never again, as long as I am able.

Best financed purchase I ever made was to trade a POS jetta in on a new Ford Fusion back in 2014. 80K miles so far of gas, oil, tires, and get in it and drive. No ragrets, not even one.

 

[Maggot]

I've been the guy fixing a vehicle in a parking lot, in the rain, late at night so that I could get to work in the morning.

Never again, as long as I am able.

Best financed purchase I ever made was to trade a POS jetta in on a new Ford Fusion back in 2014. 80K miles so far of gas, oil, tires, and get in it and drive. No ragrets, not even one.

I did the same when I started my stonemasonry business. Kept buying POS trucks that broke a lot. Spent at least one day a week in the shop or working on them instead of earning. Went out an invested in a new 4x4 1 ton Chevy Flatbed dump. It paid itself off in a year and a half. Never again junk.

 

[supercorndogs]

I would save it, buy a house or another. When the clunker stops clunking just fix it. Sometimes a couple grand hurts, but you loose that when you drive a new one off the lot.

 

[AndreC]

Whats more important to you?

Andre's Rules of Money:

1. There is no such thing as "Good Debt".

2. You are always better-off with low ongoing expenses.

3. Never "Invest" in Depreciative Value Assets.

4. ALWAYS pay yourself, first.

There are more, but these are the ones I want you to concentrate on, and here's why:

1. Your car may not be the best-looking ride on the road, but it's yours, and it's paid-for. Gas, insurance, and maintenance are your only ongoing expenses on this car, and will probably be cheaper than these costs would be on the replacement car, to say nothing of the acquisition costs that go with buying the car in the first place.

2. An auto-loan, regardless of the loan terms, will involve "paying additional costs, on something that is depreciating in value".

So, more of your time (expressed as earned income), spent on "paying someone else first".

It's lose-lose for you, unless you, (like many consumers), are worried about the social stigma of "driving a beater".

I would replace the car, ONLY if it is unsafe to drive, or has an issue where reparations cost more than replacement.

I won't tell you what to 'invest' in, but I will tell you that a car is at the bottom of my list.

Not knowing how the stuff you mentioned holds its value, I can only assume that it's similar to other gun-related stuff, in that it holds or appreciates .

On the plus side, it's tangible property that you have 24-7 possession of (unlike 'traditional' investments, which are really just paper shell games).

Kind Regards,

Andre

 

[168BTHPM]

Andre's Rules of Money:

1. There is no such thing as "Good Debt".

2. You are always better-off with low ongoing expenses.

3. Never "Invest" in Depreciative Value Assets.

4. ALWAYS pay yourself, first.

There are more, but these are the ones I want you to concentrate on, and here's why:

1. Your car may not be the best-looking ride on the road, but it's yours, and it's paid-for. Gas, insurance, and maintenance are your only ongoing expenses on this car, and will probably be cheaper than these costs would be on the replacement car, to say nothing of the acquisition costs that go with buying the car in the first place.

2. An auto-loan, regardless of the loan terms, will involve "paying additional costs, on something that is depreciating in value".

So, more of your time (expressed as earned income), spent on "paying someone else first".

It's lose-lose for you, unless you, (like many consumers), are worried about the social stigma of "driving a beater".

I would replace the car, ONLY if it is unsafe to drive, or has an issue where reparations cost more than replacement.

I won't tell you what to 'invest' in, but I will tell you that a car is at the bottom of my list.

Not knowing how the stuff you mentioned holds its value, I can only assume that it's similar to other gun-related stuff, in that it holds or appreciates .

On the plus side, it's tangible property that you have 24-7 possession of (unlike 'traditional' investments, which are really just paper shell games).

Kind Regards,

Andre

What Andre said!!

I drive an 04 Tahoe 210K miles and an 94 C1500 short bed 350 5spd 82K miles, so I can have what's in the pictures below (sorry no picture of my handgun safe to show). Nothing here is depreciating (not even the vehicles). If I need to get a car while I fix one of mine I have an account with Hertz and can rent something for $19 a day while I do repairs. $19 a day for a rental once every year and a half is a lot cheaper than the interest on a new car loan.

 

[Maggot]

In addition to what Andre said, a rule I learned about investing is "Buy Income". Buy things that will pay you for not working, or working minimally to manage them. Real Estate is mine, but its not for everyone.

By "Paying yourself first" Put (at least) 10% of every $ that geos through your hands into 'Buying Income".

 

[168BTHPM]

In addition to what Andre said, a rule I learned about investing is "Buy Income". Buy things that will pay you for not working, or working minimally to manage them. Real Estate is mine, but its not for everyone.

By "Paying yourself first" Put (at least) 10% of every $ that geos through your hands into 'Buying Income".

I agree with what you say. I read an article in Fortune 500 Magazine about 30 years ago where they said quality firearms and custom knives were a better investment than anything in the stock market. It wound up being one of the most expensive (and rewarding) things I have ever read.

 

[AndreC]

What Andre said!!

I drive an 04 Tahoe 210K miles and an 94 C1500 short bed 350 5spd 82K miles, so I can have what's in the pictures below (sorry no picture of my handgun safe to show). Nothing here is depreciating (not even the vehicles). If I need to get a car while I fix one of mine I have an account with Hertz and can rent something for $19 a day while I do repairs. $19 a day for a rental once every year and a half is a lot cheaper than the interest on a new car loan.

View attachment 6913069View attachment 6913070View attachment 6913071View attachment 6913072

168:

Clearly, we have similar philosophies when it comes to money; great minds think alike, my friend!

I have a lot of different collecting interests (literally 30+ fields), ALL of which have generated better returns than "traditional" forms of investing have. I do it out of genuine passion, not financial motive, but it's a nice 'side effect', to say nothing of the tax advantages to cash sales.

I proudly drive an '03 Camry (the clearcoat's peeling in places, 167k+ miles, but still runs like a champ)...probably worth about $3500 now, maybe?

I'm posting from my phone, so there's a limit to what I can post photos of, but to give you an idea, I love sculpture:



The last one on the right, is Raoul Charles Verlet's, "Orpheus' Sorrow" (last sale I know of, was one by Christie's which was $11k+...I paid $1500 for mine. Left of it, is a Mathurin Moreau 1st casting of "Danseuse a la Lyre" (there's another one on Ebay right now, for $8995). The other 2 are nothing special, just old pieces that have been in the family a while.

This next one, is the original chryselephantine of Bruno Zach's "Slave Market"; it's never been for sale, but I have a standing cash offer at $50k:



I get a kick out of the fact that society judges so much of a person's value on appearances alone. Most people, looking at me, think I'm probably 1 step away from being homeless, which is exactly how I like it.

Always pay yourself first.

Kind Regards,

Andre

 

[168BTHPM]

168:

Clearly, we have similar philosophies when it comes to money; great minds think alike, my friend!

I have a lot of different collecting interests (literally 30+ fields), ALL of which have generated better returns than "traditional" forms of investing have. I do it out of genuine passion, not financial motive, but it's a nice 'side effect', to say nothing of the tax advantages to cash sales.

I proudly drive an '03 Camry (the clearcoat's peeling in places, 167k+ miles, but still runs like a champ)...probably worth about $3500 now, maybe?

I'm posting from my phone, so there's a limit to what I can post photos of, but to give you an idea, I love sculpture:

View attachment 6913094

The last one on the right, is Raoul Charles Verlet's, "Orpheus' Sorrow" (last sale I know of, was one by Christie's which was $11k+...I paid $1500 for mine. Left of it, is a Mathurin Moreau 1st casting of "Danseuse a la Lyre" (there's another one on Ebay right now, for $8995). The other 2 are nothing special, just old pieces that have been in the family a while.

This next one, is the original chryselephantine of Bruno Zach's "Slave Market"; it's never been for sale, but I have a standing cash offer at $50k:

View attachment 6913102

I get a kick out of the fact that society judges so much of a person's value on appearances alone. Most people, looking at me, think I'm probably 1 step away from being homeless, which is exactly how I like it.

Always pay yourself first.

Kind Regards,

Andre

Couldn't agree more. I don't just invest in/collect guns either. My years in the baseball circles have allowed me to collect over 300 pro issue baseball gloves. Some are one off customs for pro players, some are limited runs that were never publically released. I also have a bunch of Converse salesman samples made in Horween leather, a safe full of Randall, Ruana and other custom knives.

 

[Maggot]

168:

Clearly, we have similar philosophies when it comes to money; great minds think alike, my friend!

I have a lot of different collecting interests (literally 30+ fields), ALL of which have generated better returns than "traditional" forms of investing have. I do it out of genuine passion, not financial motive, but it's a nice 'side effect', to say nothing of the tax advantages to cash sales.

I proudly drive an '03 Camry (the clearcoat's peeling in places, 167k+ miles, but still runs like a champ)...probably worth about $3500 now, maybe?

I'm posting from my phone, so there's a limit to what I can post photos of, but to give you an idea, I love sculpture:

View attachment 6913094

The last one on the right, is Raoul Charles Verlet's, "Orpheus' Sorrow" (last sale I know of, was one by Christie's which was $11k+...I paid $1500 for mine. Left of it, is a Mathurin Moreau 1st casting of "Danseuse a la Lyre" (there's another one on Ebay right now, for $8995). The other 2 are nothing special, just old pieces that have been in the family a while.

This next one, is the original chryselephantine of Bruno Zach's "Slave Market"; it's never been for sale, but I have a standing cash offer at $50k:

View attachment 6913102

I get a kick out of the fact that society judges so much of a person's value on appearances alone. Most people, looking at me, think I'm probably 1 step away from being homeless, which is exactly how I like it.

Always pay yourself first.

Kind Regards,

Andre

Art is the way to go if you have the bucks. The people that buy the big $$$ stuff dont need to finance..they pay cash. A couple of years back a prototype Minolta camera (only 2 made) sold for 3.5 million.


Excuse me but fuck you. There are people starving.

 

[AndreC]

Couldn't agree more. I don't just invest in/collect guns either. My years in the baseball circles have allowed me to collect over 300 pro issue baseball gloves. Some are one off customs for pro players, some are limited runs that were never publically released. I also have a bunch of Converse salesman samples made in Horween leather, a safe full of Randall, Ruana and other custom knives. View attachment 6913133

Very nice display! I collected cards as a kid, but I never got into memorabilia as I got older; I was collecting cards when it was still a field dominated by kids; once the adults got involved, it ceased to be fun for me, so I sold my lesser stuff, and kept the best pieces for free (couple of Mantles - [my favorite player], a bunch of Hall of Famer rookie cards, etc). I wouldn't know the values at this point, but they're all free so it's all profit. I know sneakers have a strong following, but again, it's an area outside of my expertise.

I'm into collector-grade guns, coins (early US Type & Spanish Colonial), military antiques (Imperial & WWII Orders, Medals, Badges), edged weapons (16th-19th century), rare books, antique steins (Mettlach, Bohne), art glass, early American furniture...and on an on it goes.

The beauty of having a lot of interests, is that it's relatively easy to spot good opportunities.

I agree with Maggot's post about buying income (it's actually one of my rules, but left off the list to avoid veering too far off from the original poster's topic).

It sounds to me, like the Hide has its own panel of financial experts!

In this world of mass consumerism, I'm really glad to know that I'm not alone when it comes to "having fun, while keeping what I work hard for".

Best,

Andre

 

[AndreC]

Art is the way to go if you have the bucks. The people that buy the big $$$ stuff dont need to finance..they pay cash. A couple of years back a prototype Minolta camera (only 2 made) sold for 3.5 million.


Excuse me but fuck you. There are people starving.

Maggot:

When I was little, my parents both worked 2 jobs each, to provide for my well-being. As a kid, I had a lot of hustle when it came to turning a buck.

We're self-made people, and at various points, I could have very easily become one of those starving people, who thinks "it's everyone else's fault".

IMO, it boils down to a state of mind:

It is easier to point a finger and assign blame to someone else for our shortcomings, than it is to do something to change those shortcomings.

Any terrific shooter on this site, probably didn't start that way...they failed 1000 times, BUT kept trying.

I went to college (on my dime) for 1 year. I dropped out, because I wasn't learning anything of value, and already had a good income.

The good income was the result of my own efforts...working all the time...not pissing it away on cars, girls, alcohol, drugs, or the latest gadgets or fashions.

The problem with the art market, is that it's controlled, and through that control, is basically a gigantic skimming operation.

Just like fashion, "what's In" this year, is "Out" next year. Case in point, oil paintings by lesser 17th century Dutch artists are reasonably priced right now. Sooner or later, it will dawn on people that 400 year old portraits, and figural art is much nicer than the over-hyped modern art is.

If I had any more space, I'd be buying...Jackson's recently had some terrific stuff that went bidless...

 

[Maggot]

Maggot:

When I was little, my parents both worked 2 jobs each, to provide for my well-being. As a kid, I had a lot of hustle when it came to turning a buck.

We're self-made people, and at various points, I could have very easily become one of those starving people, who thinks "it's everyone else's fault".

IMO, it boils down to a state of mind:

It is easier to point a finger and assign blame to someone else for our shortcomings, than it is to do something to change those shortcomings.

Any terrific shooter on this site, probably didn't start that way...they failed 1000 times, BUT kept trying.

I went to college (on my dime) for 1 year. I dropped out, because I wasn't learning anything of value, and already had a good income.

The good income was the result of my own efforts...working all the time...not pissing it away on cars, girls, alcohol, drugs, or the latest gadgets or fashions.

The problem with the art market, is that it's controlled, and through that control, is basically a gigantic skimming operation.

Just like fashion, "what's In" this year, is "Out" next year. Case in point, oil paintings by lesser 17th century Dutch artists are reasonably priced right now. Sooner or later, it will dawn on people that 400 year old portraits, and figural art is much nicer than the over-hyped modern art is.

If I had any more space, I'd be buying...Jackson's recently had some terrific stuff that went bidless...

I understand. Every penny I have I earned by hard work. I completely support free enterprise and the right to earn and better oneself. What galls me is that some POS with millions and millions or even billions, is willing to spend 3.5 million on a fucking camera to sit on the shelf while people starve. After 6 cars, three McMansions, and 4 airplanes, how fucking much do you need? How do they sleep at night knowing that their camera could feed thousands.

Thats not jealousy. I have enough for me and a little extra so I give as much as possible to help others.

 

[AndreC]

I understand. Every penny I have I earned by hard work. I completely support free enterprise and the right to earn and better oneself. What galls me is that some POS with millions and millions or even billions, is willing to spend 3.5 million on a fucking camera to sit on the shelf while people starve. After 6 cars, three McMansions, and 4 airplanes, how fucking much do you need? How do they sleep at night knowing that their camera could feed thousands.

Thats not jealousy. I have enough for me and a little extra so I give as much as possible to help others.

My friend, I wasn't intending my post to sound accusatory, and I absolutely agree that there comes a point when "you have enough". I can't stand people like Gates, Buffett, or Soros...they're wealthy far beyond what they'd be able to spend in their lifetimes, and use their wealth to force their unsolicited philosophical/political viewpoints on people who lack any ability to oppose them. To top it all off, they disguise their actions through a fictitious notion of "charity".

 

[168BTHPM]

Maggot:

When I was little, my parents both worked 2 jobs each, to provide for my well-being. As a kid, I had a lot of hustle when it came to turning a buck.

We're self-made people, and at various points, I could have very easily become one of those starving people, who thinks "it's everyone else's fault".

IMO, it boils down to a state of mind:

It is easier to point a finger and assign blame to someone else for our shortcomings, than it is to do something to change those shortcomings.

Any terrific shooter on this site, probably didn't start that way...they failed 1000 times, BUT kept trying.

I went to college (on my dime) for 1 year. I dropped out, because I wasn't learning anything of value, and already had a good income.

The good income was the result of my own efforts...working all the time...not pissing it away on cars, girls, alcohol, drugs, or the latest gadgets or fashions.

The problem with the art market, is that it's controlled, and through that control, is basically a gigantic skimming operation.

Just like fashion, "what's In" this year, is "Out" next year. Case in point, oil paintings by lesser 17th century Dutch artists are reasonably priced right now. Sooner or later, it will dawn on people that 400 year old portraits, and figural art is much nicer than the over-hyped modern art is.

If I had any more space, I'd be buying...Jackson's recently had some terrific stuff that went bidless...

We have more in common than financial philosophy. I started working when I was 14 years old bucking bales, shoveling snow, delivering papers, and mowing lawns. I signed up at the employment office when I was 16 and did everything they could find for me. When I was a junior in high school I owned 2 pickups (both 64 Chevies), 2 cars (69 Road Runner and 62 Buick Electra Convertible) and 3 motorcycles (BSA Gold Star, Norton Commando and Yamaha TT250). I went to college for 1.5 years and left because it was run by a bunch of commie liberal Vietnam War protesting rejects.

I also came from a hard working and not well to do family. My mother went to college the same time I did (and worked a full time job), just to prove she could do it.

As far as someone spending $3.5M on a camera, that's pure capitalism, if it wasn't worth that it wouldn't sell. Same with anything else, I don't care what someone does with their own money. I also don't care how much someone else has as long as they didn't steal it or sell drugs. The more money people have the more they can buy and the more they support the overall economy.

 

[Maggot]

. The more money people have the more they can buy and the more they support the overall economy.[/QUOTE]

BS. the ones with that kind of money keep it in small circles. What they buy, like 350 million dollar Rembrants etc,. do not support and or help the overall economy. The average chump never sees a penny of it. It goes into the vault until someone pays 500 million and it gos into their vault.

 

[168BTHPM]

. The more money people have the more they can buy and the more they support the overall economy.

BS. the ones with that kind of money keep it in small circles. What they buy, like 350 million dollar Rembrants etc,. do not support and or help the overall economy. The average chump never sees a penny of it. It goes into the vault until someone pays 500 million and it gos into their vault.[/QUOTE]

That's a complete load of horseshit and nothing but jealousy on your part. Keep it in small circles? Really do you mean like when Warren Buffet donated $30B in 2006, Bill gates $11B in 1999, William Hewlett $6B in 2001? That's $47B just between 3 people. Is that hoarding money in small circles? The only way they can keep their money in small circles would be if they never ever bought anything, period. They build houses and commercial buildings, buy cars, trucks and airplanes, all of those activities employ thousands of people. They hire huge security contingents to protect themselves and their families. Having that kind of money causes all kinds of problems, yes problems, the rest of us don't have to worry about. Family members are at risk of kidnapping for ransom. They can't be seen in public because people are constantly begging for money, so they become recluse.

Even if someone spent $350M on a Rembrandt it's none of anyone else's business, and just buying a $350M painting is not a transaction between two rich guys hoarding money. That kind of asset has to be secured, transported, insured, and maintained, none of which will be done by the owner. Someone had to build the climate controlled vault it is stored in, someone is responsible for maintaining it, someone is responsible for security. Someone has to build and install the security systems.

If you get a stick up your ass over a $350M painting where do you draw the line? Do we all have to eat chicken nuggets or can we go out and have a $200 steak once in a while? Can I still build $15K custom rifles or do I have to buy a Savage from Walmart? Can Jay Leno still collect $1M cars? Can guys still bring their $50M airplanes to the Reno air races? Can John Force still spend $100M a year supporting his race teams? None of that is anyone else's business. Who cares if the "average chump" ever sees a penny of it? Let the average chump do what the rest of us did, work for it.

 

[Maggot]

BS. the ones with that kind of money keep it in small circles. What they buy, like 350 million dollar Rembrants etc,. do not support and or help the overall economy. The average chump never sees a penny of it. It goes into the vault until someone pays 500 million and it gos into their vault.

That's a complete load of horseshit and nothing but jealousy on your part. Keep it in small circles? Really do you mean like when Warren Buffet donated $30B in 2006, Bill gates $11B in 1999, William Hewlett $6B in 2001? That's $47B just between 3 people. Is that hoarding money in small circles? The only way they can keep their money in small circles would be if they never ever bought anything, period. They build houses and commercial buildings, buy cars, trucks and airplanes, all of those activities employ thousands of people. They hire huge security contingents to protect themselves and their families. Having that kind of money causes all kinds of problems, yes problems, the rest of us don't have to worry about. Family members are at risk of kidnapping for ransom. They can't be seen in public because people are constantly begging for money, so they become recluse.

Even if someone spent $350M on a Rembrandt it's none of anyone else's business, and just buying a $350M painting is not a transaction between two rich guys hoarding money. That kind of asset has to be secured, transported, insured, and maintained, none of which will be done by the owner. Someone had to build the climate controlled vault it is stored in, someone is responsible for maintaining it, someone is responsible for security. Someone has to build and install the security systems.

If you get a stick up your ass over a $350M painting where do you draw the line? Do we all have to eat chicken nuggets or can we go out and have a $200 steak once in a while? Can I still build $15K custom rifles or do I have to buy a Savage from Walmart? Can Jay Leno still collect $1M cars? Can guys still bring their $50M airplanes to the Reno air races? Can John Force still spend $100M a year supporting his race teams? None of that is anyone else's business. Who cares if the "average chump" ever sees a penny of it? Let the average chump do what the rest of us did, work for it.[/QUOTE]

As long as we're being insulting how about we start with 'Fuck You asswipe' and go from there.

First, theres absolutely no jealousy. I dont want it, Im happy with what Ive got. I like to live lean. that way you dont forget that others are starving.

Sure, some of those guys give some away. Its good tax write offs and makes them look good but all those expenses you speak of are peanuts they throw to the serfs. All those investments you speak of just make them more and keep the average working Joe at minimum wage or a bit better.

Go back to yo momma's basement/

 

[168BTHPM]

Nice, profanity and name calling. I didn't call you any names, just pointed out the obvious. If you took what I said as an insult I must have hit the target dead center.

Hmnm, building houses and commercial buildings, building cars, truck and airplanes keeps people at minimum wage or a bit better? I would venture a guess the UAW, Teamsters, IUPAT, and every auto maker, dealer, service tech, and general contractor in the world would like to discuss that with you.

As far as my "momma's basement" goes, I have been living in my own house since I was a senior in high school (41 years and still going).

You live lean so you can remember others are starving? Translation, you are a part time janitor at a junior high school. There is a place for everyone and everyone is in their place.

 

[nfngun]

I too own an 04 every month its on the road it keeps $250-300 of a car payment in my pocket. Ill drive it into the ground while I fine tune my “collection”. Once I have what I need then I’ll buy a New car.

Guns over car right now

So i drive an 04 car that is starting to rust fairly heavily. I'm sure it can get another 2-3 years out of it if i want to... I was thinking today if i forego a new car I can afford that much more in gun stuff.

Whats more important to you?

Newer vehicle; or optic upgrades, tripods, labradar, progressive reloaders, etc.