When, if ever, is the right time to check in on the progress of a build? Dropped one off in February and there was a 16 week lead time on the barrel. REM 700 action to get trued as well as threading and chambering. I’m not rushing, I’m just curious. My first foray into this.
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Gunsmith etiquette
- Thread starter Dot3
- Start date
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,734
- 20,537
It’s usually appropriate to start a trash talking thread here first. The after that, you make contact with said gunsmith, then come back here and apologize publicly.
My personal experience..... Never again will I worry about pissing off a gunsmith..... Their hide is tougher than yours....
Mark the completion date on your calendar.... A week before completion date call and tell them you will be in town in one week and will pick up your weapon. End of conversation. In one week go in and pick up your project. Regardless if it is done or not. Move on.
Unless you are a steady customer with deep pockets your job keeps getting pushed back.... Just how it is.
JMHO
Mark the completion date on your calendar.... A week before completion date call and tell them you will be in town in one week and will pick up your weapon. End of conversation. In one week go in and pick up your project. Regardless if it is done or not. Move on.
Unless you are a steady customer with deep pockets your job keeps getting pushed back.... Just how it is.
JMHO
No offense but you come across as a pushy customer. Most armorers worth their salt have a backlog of work and being rigid and inflexible usually results in the customer getting their feelings hurt or expectations let down. Communication is expected and that usually suffices. However, do not call everyday expecting a progress report. That is a quick way to get your stuff sent back to you.
No offense taken... I got things done in the Heavy Industrial Construction arena by being pushy and being an excellent craftsmen. I can build things in the time I waste waiting on other's to get it done. A gunsmith is just a glorified blacksmith....
An example:
John Shields - Discover Lewis & Clark
The journals speak often about Shields' life-sustaining work as gunsmith. Certainly the guns had seen hard use.
www.lewis-clark.org
That doesn't sound pushy to me. Asking for a delivery date and then expecting someone to meet their commitment?
Why is it when someone misses a deadline, and I inquire about it, I'm the asshole? I didn't miss the deadline....
Let me try that next time with my boss. Maybe I won't, I like my job.
And I hit my deadlines.
I have always enjoyed the M14 / M1A rifles. It was always a challenge to find as many USGI parts as possible and have them built on a top shelf receiver. After getting burned by some hacks, I bit the bullet and had LRB start doing my builds. They are the Masters. Great communication and after they inventoried my parts I was given a completion date. Usually that date was 10 - 12 months away. 100% of the time I was contacted on that date that my weapon was ready to ship. Regardless if it is a rifle, tractor or a computer.... Missing a dead line runs up a red flag. My respect goes to the shops that are not taking in any new work until they get their back log caught up. We are living in uncertain times. I feel very uneasy when I am told "Don't call us again. We will call you when it is ready"....
LRB Arms M14 Specialist
M14 Rifle Manufacturer specializing in custom built rifles. M14 / M1A parts and accessories. USA made, Genuine Hammer Forged receivers.
www.lrbarms.com
As with anything in life, the key is to be reasonable. Some things not in the Smith or whoever 's control and it causes delays. Some level of communication is reasonable, demanding things and bothering people daily when your questions have already been answered is not reasonable. It's also reasonable to expect some kind of time-line, and to check in when that time line is near. Being polite is always the way to go, but don't confuse that with being a door matt.
I had to call to add on something I forgot mid-July…around the time the barrel might have arrived. He told me the barrel wasn’t there yet. Didn’t get a real timeline, but not too worried about it. I’m not one of the big paycheck customers…yet…so I don’t expect any special treatment at all. I have no gripes so far. Just a curiosity.
My all time favorite cartoon was a small one frame cartoon that my very old friend Steve Brooks had at his gunsmithing shop.
While I have no actually copy of the cartoon, it depicted a customer with a shotgun in his hand, about to hand it over to the gunsmith for repair. The words
If I Wanted It Fixed Tomorrow….I Would Have Brought It In Tomorrow!
While I have no actually copy of the cartoon, it depicted a customer with a shotgun in his hand, about to hand it over to the gunsmith for repair. The words
If I Wanted It Fixed Tomorrow….I Would Have Brought It In Tomorrow!
I'd call them and tell them if they didn't hurry the fk up don't start your car in the morning...
Jesus I get those calls every week I don't give a shit I just put on an EOD suit before I start my car lmfao
Mike R
Jesus I get those calls every week I don't give a shit I just put on an EOD suit before I start my car lmfao
Mike R
I just waited 9 months for a barrel. A barrel. Sheesh. 1st world problem for sure.
I’m still shaken up by my first gunsmith encounter. Lol! My first “custom” build was ordering a remage barrel in 6 creed, a magpul hunter stock and whatever the cheapest timeny trigger was at the time. Dude works out of his house. So I make the 50 or so minute drive over there, with a coworker/shooting buddy. Knock on the door. A giant man in his 60s starts yelling “come in!” Open the door, immediately slammed in the face by the smell of cat piss. Already regretting my decision lol. Tell him I want him to remove the 20” 308 barrel and install the 6mm remage. He’s pretty salty the whole time. Talked tons of shit to me about how all my parts were garbage. Lol, fuck sakes. I’m not a small guy. 6’3” 285. But this sour old prick had to be 6’10” and close to 400 pounds of muscle! So I sat there and let him berate me like a bitch. Lol! He took my rifle and parts, to the garage. We left and grabbed lunch. He called an hour later and said that it was done. Debated letting him keep it all of it. Lol! He removed the old barrel, threaded the muzzle and installed the new one. For $100. Thought it was good deal! That rife hammered! But fuck was he grouchy.
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My first build I had Bugholes build it. It took about 6 months.
Some of it was because I would add more stuff as time went on and I saved more money. Some of it was probably him waiting for parts. Had a great experience. But I also learned from it.
My next build. I bought all the parts and then took it to my Smith. Three days later I had my Rifle.
This same Smith pissed a guy off one time because he did his job so fast. The guy traveled 300 miles to have a barrel spun up. He dropped his stuff and went back home and as he was pulling into his driveway the Smith called him and told him it was done. The guy told him if he knew it was going to be done so fast he would have stayed there and waited for it.
Some of it was because I would add more stuff as time went on and I saved more money. Some of it was probably him waiting for parts. Had a great experience. But I also learned from it.
My next build. I bought all the parts and then took it to my Smith. Three days later I had my Rifle.
This same Smith pissed a guy off one time because he did his job so fast. The guy traveled 300 miles to have a barrel spun up. He dropped his stuff and went back home and as he was pulling into his driveway the Smith called him and told him it was done. The guy told him if he knew it was going to be done so fast he would have stayed there and waited for it.
Maybe he had covid in 2016 and couldn’t smell it??Cat piss ...
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Or how about the shops where the gunsmith is always "busy" talking with customers and sales staff and complains that answering phone calls about "when their firearm will be done" is preventing him from getting any work accomplished.
That’s why I love prefits and action wrenches 
Gunsmiths are trash. I just picked up four different rifles from a smith yesterday. He had them anywhere from 6 to 2 months. Hadn’t touched them. His helper, on Friday, told me that he had been there on Thursday, but they had not worked on any guns. The helper is standing around with nothing to do. And, I’ve long since stopped letting smiths order parts. I was a machinist in my youth. These jobs take minutes not months!
ETA: He wasn’t there yesterday when I picked those rifles up either.
ETA: He wasn’t there yesterday when I picked those rifles up either.
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That def. sucks next time you need one shoot me a pm I have a few hundred on the racks I could help if you'd like...
Just a thought...
Mike R.
GL550 white Mercedes it's in the drive way......... well that's what my woman is driving knock yourself out you'll do me a favor LMFAO
Of course I'm joking LOL
Mike R.
Thank GOD I'm not a talker tell him Bullet you only get a 30 second phone call with me ....
Mike
Is this 'smith a local guy, or one of higher profile? If he's a known guy, will you tell us what U.S. state he's in so we can avoid? Thanks
The sad part is that the guy can do good work. But, I’ve been through this with him before. When I brought the first one in I asked him what his turnaround time was. He said 4-5 weeks! Obviously that was a bald faced lie. Not going to go through it again.
I had a rifle built in the 90’s that took 18 months to get back. Half of that was the stock maker. I gave him a Fajen laminated 98% inlet blank. When I finally got that stock back from him I asked what took so long. He said that it is very difficult to carve laminate with his little tools and not to bring him another laminated wood stock. He had full length bedded the barrel.
So, says I, have you ever heard of a dremel??? This is going to be filled with acraglas steelbed anyway!
Moral of the story? Make damn sure you know what the idiot intends to do because you just might want to pick a different idiot for your work.
So, says I, have you ever heard of a dremel??? This is going to be filled with acraglas steelbed anyway!Moral of the story? Make damn sure you know what the idiot intends to do because you just might want to pick a different idiot for your work.
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I ordered a Sendero/Varmint Criterion Remage 308win prefit on March 12th, 2021. I was quoted 20 weeks at the time of the order. I'm still waiting. On Oct 11th they said it was in production and would ship in 2 weeks...crickets. The barrel is nothing special, no muzzle threads, no weird length, and stainless even though I prefer chromoly.
In the meantime I've ordered and received 2 26" 6.5 Creedmoor Varmint prefits from Criterion. Those were in stock.
In the meantime I've ordered and received 2 26" 6.5 Creedmoor Varmint prefits from Criterion. Those were in stock.
I recently ordered a M40/HTG stock from McMillan for one of the builds I have going on. They told me 6 + months. I got it in 5 weeks!
I’ve pretty much figured that all this supply chain BS delayed something or other. Again, I’m not worried and don’t want to be worriesom. I’ve waited 18 months for a deer head, I know good work takes time largely due to backlog. Who wants a gunsmith or a taxidermist who ain’t busy?
Busy is one thing: SVI is busy. They say it takes 18 months to build a pistol.
18 months later, it magically arrives.
Hell even the ATF mostly hits the deadlines on Forms (they probably aren't busy just yankin our chains but still). Magically 1 year later form shows up.
I try not be a call every day guy. Yes I bitch and moan a lot on the forums. I was quoted Oct for delivery of an rifle.
I called October 30 for an update. (Oct 31 they were closed).
We did a major order locally for supplies in April. I contacted them about a week ago. Guy said 1st quarter 2022.
I said thank you for update, I will contact you if I don't hear from you by mid-march. If we weren't getting a steep discount, I'd be REALLY ticked.
I generally like to be a nice guy but man some people just use that to roll over you cause you are just some schmuck.
I can deal with busy. I really cannot abide this missed deadline crap.
Good discussion........ Many valid points are being brought out.
I would hope some of the young "lurkers" are soaking up this topic.
I would also encourage the young people to seriously consider becoming a gunsmith, knife maker, blacksmith or any number of other trades that are in need of craftsmen. When you operate a small, one man shop and are a craftsman... You can find happiness and rewards.
I would hope some of the young "lurkers" are soaking up this topic.
I would also encourage the young people to seriously consider becoming a gunsmith, knife maker, blacksmith or any number of other trades that are in need of craftsmen. When you operate a small, one man shop and are a craftsman... You can find happiness and rewards.
I dropped my parts off in April and just picked them back up about two weeks ago. Still untouched. I understand things take time but I honestly don’t know why most gunsmithing takes as long as it does. Some take months to get a barrel spun on and sent back while others can get one sent back in a week or two and it shoot lights out. I’ve been in construction/electrical my entire life and understand work processes and I just don’t get how some are so far out.
I’ve gotten barrels from Douglas in as little as 5 days, and that is contoured, threaded, chambered, cut to length and crowned. And then I have to wait 6-9 months for the gunsmith to spin it on to the action and headspace it.
And yet that is so easy to do at home.I’ve gotten barrels from Douglas in as little as 5 days, and that is contoured, threaded, chambered, cut to length and crowned. And then I have to wait 6-9 months for the gunsmith to spin it on to the action and headspace it.
I suspect many of the top pistol customizers and rifle smiths wait until they have X number of ABCDEF matching job items so they can do batch runs, thereby greatly improving their efficiency. I understand the advantages of minimal tooling swaps and such, but at some point they lose potential customers because the waits get ridiculous. I think that might be one of the many reasons why people are embracing chassis and self swap barrels.
A lathe is required.
I used to run one of these back in the day (‘75) but I have no place to put it now.
People don't understand this. Often the setup on the tooling isn't worth doing only one. Same with parkerizing or black oxide. I wait until I have more items to process the bead blasting at one shot. It just is not efficient doing just one item.
Guys... I am reading a lot of complaining and talk of how simple the work is but I haven't heard any of you talk about the tools and equipment needed to perform the work. Lathe, Mill, reamers, tooling, barrel vise, action wrenches, gauges, punches, bench grinders, belt sanders, hand tools and not to mention the specialty tools required for certain jobs. All of this comes at a huge price. It's a craftsman trade for sure. Yes anyone can do most of the stuff with practice and training. However, I don't see many of you taking on the task. Alibi: I am not referring to slapping an AR together.... that isn't armorer work.
