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Gunsmithing Gunsmithing Prereq's

remiglockoholic

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 4, 2010
212
0
Hello All,

Looking to get a idea of some course study i can take in order to set myself for a good path into gunsmithing. Yes i do know of the school in prescott but the 2hr plus drive is just not sustainable. Would a good prereq be cnc machinist or welding be a good start in the right direction?
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

I am kind of interested in this too, and am in goodyear. Would be nice if I could just find someone to get access to the machinery
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Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

There are several basic foundational blocks I think one must consider in the realm of gunsmithing. Im not an expert nor a "Master" at gunsmithing. In fact Im closer to the other end of the spectrum....just slightly above hobbyist
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<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">This is just my opinion and what Im thinking at the moment!</span></span>

I went through the Trinidad State Gunsmithing back in the fall of 1991 to the spring 1994. I also attend a few of the NRA Summer Gunsmithing programs at Trinidad. I was 18 years old and went right out of high school which I think was a mistake. I should have had a basic machining background. In my opinion, I would have gotten a lot more out of the opportunities that I had at Trinidad.

Basic manual machining is one block of the foundation. This includes drilling, milling and lathe work. Another equally important building block is basic bench metal knowledge. Files, shaping, polishing, sharping, welding, and making fixtures.

Obviously, someone wanting to go into smithing already has some type of mechanical skills. If they didn’t, they would not last very long. Understanding functions and timing of internal parts is essential to the gunsmith. If your a brain surgeon.....your going to have to know how the brain works right?
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Once you get the foundation, you can start focusing on what direction your skills shine most. Repairing, refinishing, and tinkering is how most people start out. A lot of people like wood working and hone in on stockmaking and checkering. Some people prefer to go into the machining side of truing actions and turning barrels.
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

There is a big difference between a CNC machinist and a CNC machine operator.

Not trying to be cynical or rude. Just making sure you guys don't get set up to fail.

Unless working for yourself right out of school it's unlikely a business owner is going to turn you loose on a very delicate/expensive/difficult to replace piece of machinery unless you are fluent in how these machines operate and function. That only comes with experience and that is never cheap. That applies to both you and the owner.

Stand by to make about $12 an hour pushing the green button all day.

Code is one thing. Tooling selection, feed rates, speeds, complex surface generation etc. . . are all possible with this stuff if the software is there to support it.

The software is another story all together.

Lots of learning.

My advise is go get yourself a student copy of MCX3 or MCX4 and begin now. There's all sorts of stuff available on Amazon. Buy the book and the disc usually comes with it. You won't be able to post code (post processors are yet another facet to this that must be understood as well) but you'll at least be able to begin learning how to generate geometry and how to drive a tool path from it.

Things to work on are simple profiles, pockets, and tap/drill cycles.

Then come the fun stuff: Helical boring, circular thread interpolation (thread milling), rigid tap cycles,

Then the really cool chit:

Surface projections, lofted surfaces, draft, and revolved are typically what I work with most the time. Each has its quirks, benefits, and limitations.

Better learn how to contain a tool path when chewing on a stock otherwise your going to have a very, very uncomfortable phone call to make with your client. At 15,000 rpm and 300ipm things go to hell in a hurry.
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Then how to apply cutter comp, wear comp, reverse wear comp, etc. High speed tool paths where the machine accelerates off a corner feature to a G1 line and back down to a sane speed in preparation for another corner.

Gouge and collision are other terms to learn and avoid at all costs.

Measure twice, cut once.

Good luck.

C.
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

The VA has a vocational/rehab program so now I'm basically looking for the most expensive most tool needing career that closely mimics gunsmithing since their footing the bill(tools books equipment). The CNC machinist is a 1700 clock hour curriculum so that looks to be ideal in what I'm looking to get(not sure buy seems to be). I'm hoping so more locals chime in so someone can say "no shit" take this course xyz at abc school and get me going.12$ won't matter much ill be making a decent wage from the VA tax free. I'm just jumping into the realm of personal satisfaction so I'm just gonna enjoy life doing my FFL and hopefully gunsmithing thing within the next 3 years.

Not to discredit anyone outside of AZ either, all input in this equation is good with me because I'm going against my AFSC(mos) and what I went to school for so I'm open for all suggestions.
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

What is your AFSC? If it is 2A7X1, then you should have most of the training already.

Unless you have a lot of money for the machinery, CNC won't do you much good. Besides, you really need to learn how to do it manually before you go to the big leagues. Like Chad said, things happen really fast at 15K rpm. They happen fast enough at 600 rpm.

Train wrecks are never fun when machining. Tools break, parts get wrecked, and there is a lot of swearing involved.
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A.O.R.G.S-RemiG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The VA has a vocational/rehab program so now I'm basically looking for the most expensive most tool needing career that closely mimics gunsmithing since their footing the bill(tools books equipment). The CNC machinist is a 1700 clock hour curriculum so that looks to be ideal in what I'm looking to get(not sure buy seems to be). I'm hoping so more locals chime in so someone can say "no shit" take this course xyz at abc school and get me going.12$ won't matter much ill be making a decent wage from the VA tax free. I'm just jumping into the realm of personal satisfaction so I'm just gonna enjoy life doing my FFL and hopefully gunsmithing thing within the next 3 years.

Not to discredit anyone outside of AZ either, all input in this equation is good with me because I'm going against my AFSC(mos) and what I went to school for so I'm open for all suggestions. </div></div>

Don't be a little to optomistic on what will be covered by your rehab program. I have a buddy who had gone a similar route and found out the support wasn't what he had expected. They actualy expect you to hold a job or create a buisness within a time frame they see fit, and when that dosen't happen and it looks like your lagging, regaurdless of your intentions, thing can get difficult with what they will continue to fund.

I would suggest a vo-tec machining program that will get you a 2 year dgree. Most will start with at least one semester of manual machine work so you learn the basics of speed and feed cutting techniques, ect. and then start you into cnc work. On your summers off get them to flip the bill on some summer NRA courses at Trinidad and you will be well on your way to an education.
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is your AFSC? If it is 2A7X1, then you should have most of the training already.

Unless you have a lot of money for the machinery, CNC won't do you much good. Besides, you really need to learn how to do it manually before you go to the big leagues. Like Chad said, things happen really fast at 15K rpm. They happen fast enough at 600 rpm.

Train wrecks are never fun when machining. Tools break, parts get wrecked, and there is a lot of swearing involved.</div></div>

2a3x2b
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

Like Jim See said, make sure you get it writing what they will cover. It would suck to get into something expensive and find out the fine print said otherwise.

Machining is a lot of fun, but I think a crack habit would be cheaper.
 
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">15,000 rpm and 300ipm things go to hell in a hurry.</div></div>

I'll never forget my first crash. Ah, memories...
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">15,000 rpm and 300ipm things go to hell in a hurry.</div></div>

I'll never forget my first crash. Ah, memories... </div></div>

And all the nice sound before you can get it stopped where everyone in the building comes over even out of the offices to see what you did. No never done it
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Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

yea....I had a bar of 3/8 sq I was making some little square nuts with and it was just long enough past the end of the spindle tube when the RPMs went to turning on the first part.....oh man that joker tore up my rollers and bent the guard cage between the spindle and bar feed....wham ba lame bam bam...X 2000rpm....
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scared the crap out of everybody
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

The hands down best I've heard of comes from a friend who works at a really big job shop in Indianapolis.

There was a guy named Reggi. Reggi was pretty much only allowed to push a broom. Somehow/someway he convinced someone to allow him to run a big manual. When I say big I mean you literally ride the carriage!

Anyway He's loading a piece of stock about the length of a phone pole and several feet in diameter. It takes a gantry crane to position the stock.

He hits the hydraulic chuck, sets the feed, and away he goes. Everything is great until. . .

. . .the straps from the gantry crane wind around themselves and foul. He'd never cleared the rigging from the part. As Doug tells it the lathe pulled the gantry out of the ceiling and the whole world came crashing down. Luckily no one was injured/killed, but it sure made a mess.

Experience is never cheap and this is what labor laws, affirmative action, and unions gets you. That's just my humble opinion.
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More you say? This is a personal experience. I worked for a certain gun plumber in COS for about a year. I was just a grunt entry level machinist, had nothing to do with guns yet. Anyways I'm running a Hardinge chucker making tie rod ends by the gross. I'd load up a 20' bar of 3/4 DOM tubing in this bushing/bar feed contraption I'd whipped together. There was no guard on it. Everyone KNEW there was no guard on it. (small shop with just a handful of guys)

Anyway the owner, a wee little man with a serious Napoleonic disorder and a rectal yeast infection to boot, is telling one of his "huntin an killin" stories where he's having sex with three women, stalking a world class elk, and sky diving all at the same time. He's wearing a big ol quilted flannel shirt cause he's too cheap to turn the heat on in the shop.(you could see your breath in the winter, no chit!)

So he turns as he's telling his little yarn and backs right up into that piece of stock buzzing along at around 1800rpm. The end of it catches that shirt under his armpit and rips it off his body in a millisecond. Now we have a 20' long, 1800rpm, 40lb Q-tip in the machine. As its picking him off the ground and tossing him about, (think Will Smith and the movie MIB where the woman has the alien baby in the car) he's screaming like he's being eaten by a dinosaur.

I'd asked him about fixing the brake on the machine about a week earlier and he said not to worry about it. Well I jam the thing in reverse (what a sound THAT made!) after taking about one little tick extra on the watch to debate whether or not to leave it run for a little while longer.

He's about 95% naked from the waist up now and his ribs look mighty tasty at this point. Well tenderized.

Moral of the story? Pay attention in a machine shop and maintain your shit.

FWIW none of us working there had much affection for the guy so the sympathy wasn't flowing all that well afterward. I did however make a guard the next day out of some 4" PVC and forever since it's been known as the "shirt shark" incident. Priceless moments. . .

Ok, I'm done.

enjoy the weekend.

C.
 
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I forgot to mention this was a link posted on the gunsmith forum, the forum it originated from does not look like a nice place to hang out, after all that was someones Dad, Husband, Brother, Uncle or friend.
 
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I will tell you what that is stuck in my mind forever and I dont wrap emery-cloth around the shaft anymore and I dont wear long sleeves either, That was a real wake up call for me.
 
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I work for a company that has a rather large machine shop and one of the older guys that ran a nice HAAS turning center had something very similar happen to him. He was cleaning up with emory cloth when it grabbed ahold of his shirt and sucked him in, luckily it spit him back out but not before destroying his right arm and part of his right side. The shitty part of it was he only had a couple months to go before retirement. Just goes to show you can never be to careful!
 
Re: Gunsmithing Prereq's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniperhandle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/articles/This+Is+Twisted

Please do not click on the link if you are squeamish, but I have heard stories about gettin wound up in your work but when I saw this on the do it yourself gunsmith forum I started runnin my lathe topless. in the winter time. </div></div>

holy shit
 
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Yeah!! I saw a post on arfcom in the gunsmithing section where a guy had his 10 and 12 year old working on his machines, while he said he was surfing the web. I do not let my 11 year old son mess with my lathes even though he begs me, not after seeing that.
 
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Assembling a gun and being a gunsmith are two very different things. Installing a barrel is one of the simplest things you can do on a lathe. If you can thread and know what concentric means then you can put one on.
Troubleshooting a issue only comes with experience and thats what makes a gunsmith a gunsmith.

24000rpm's and 2400ipm rapids and you dont even have time to make your cheeks tight. It just happens
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I've been meaning to set up my profile with you guys so I can take advantage of the mil pricing, thanks for posting I knew I forgot to do some toy buying.