Gunsmithing Gunsmithing Tools

[RobertB]

Hey there guys.

Wondering what all major tools you need to get started building rifles. I'm thinking about going to the Colorado gunsmithing class but to help me decide if I will I was wondering what all it took to get into it. No need to get too involved if I cant even afford to do it after I learn something.

Is a mill and a lathe all of the major tools or are there more.
Do you need a big lathe and small lathe plus different type mills, presses, etc.
I really am unaware of everything that is needed but I have been in some shops and watched chamber jobs and such occur, but I am not sure of other jobs.

At this time I'm really only focused on Precision rifles.
Rem 700 style rifles and still use custom actions

I have several custom rifles from great smiths and then I have seen a few customs from smiths less known.
So I know what good quality is and have seen the difference it makes having a GREAT smith.
I want to learn it well because I am very passionate about what I do and it always interested me a lot.
I want to get very personal with my rifles and why not build em.
Not wanting to get into it as a business or career change but as a hobby
But I want respectable equipment if I'm going to do this. I believe that this doesn't have very much room for error.
I buy quality with my rifles and optics, I'm sure its the same for the machines that build em.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks guys!

 

[wtopace]

In gunsmithing there aren't a whole lot of required tools, however, there are lots of "very nice to have" tools (none of which are cheap). For instance, chambering a rifle for me used to be a big chore until I got the MARS system from PTG (micrometer adjustable reamer stop). Now, it takes about 30 minutes to cut a perfect chamber to an exact and known depth every time. Usually tools like this, although they are "stupid simple" in design, start around $200.

You can expect about 3-5k for the cheapest lathe and at least that in lathe tooling (cutting bits, indicators, holders, etc...). You can expect another 2-3k in specialized gunsmithing tools (fixtures, jigs, cutters, other nice to have stuff). A lot of this can (and should) be made while you are learning. I made a lot of my fixtures while learning to operate my lathe, it's not hard, just take your time and always design first! Almost 100% of the time I try to "wing it" in front of the machine without drawing my work up in CAD first, I fail somehow.

Really all you need to get started is a decent lathe. An old Southbend Heavy 10 is a great starter machine, assuming it isn't worn out (this can be very hard to tell if you aren't familiar with the machines, and even then... people these days are very clever). I picked up a Grizzly 4003G to start with, and to be honest, I have been really happy with it so far. It takes some learning and some blaming stuff on the machine to learn that it is really just you not knowing what you are doing, but my machine is plenty accurate for anything I have done. You can pick up a mill to complement the lathe once you get going strong, I use my lathe far more than my mill for gunsmithing, however the mill does have it's place.

There is nothing at all hard about gunsmithing or machining as long as you are disciplined and realize up front that there is a little learning, a lot of math and NOTHING in machining is fast. If you are okay with these, then get to making chips!

 

[dinc]

Go take one of their Summer NRA week long classes. Highly recommended. I've done a few weeks at Lassen CC's program in Susanville, CA. You spend more on tools than tuition. You can get the tool lists for Lassen's classes online. Probably Trinidad's too.

 

[RobertB]

Great, thanks guys. Thiss sounds really good to me. I would love to be decent at this!

IS one particular course more precision rifle oriented by any chance?

 

[RobertB]

Any one else care to chime in?

 

[skeetlee]

If you feel the need for this passion then just jump in. Life is short, so why not. I did and I have zero regrets!. I never even turned a lathe on until I bought my first one. Two weeks later I chambered my first barrel. That barrel won me a couple pieces of wood to. There really isn't anything to it. Lee

 

[wnroscoe]

You need a lathe that's 13x40 / 14x40 max. A good used series 1 Bridgeport Mill will do all you ever need it to do. Take machine shop classes at a Vo Tech type school and skip Gunsmithing school. That is probably the most important piece of advice I can give.

Being a precision rifle builder is more like being a tool & die man anyway. Learn and research the required tooling in order to make the cuts first and then learn to run the machines. Learn to read mics and the other precision tools/instruments needed. Learn speeds and feeds and how to turn down the work piece to a specific number and then threading. Learn all of this on scrap first, your barrels second.

Purchase some tooling from places like PTG & JGS for reamers, pilots, range rods etc. and cutting/turning tools from MSC and ENCO.

Practice first by making fixtures and jigs.

Exercise extreme caution around running machines and never "reach in", they'll suck you in and spit you out the other side in a blink of an eye leaving a huge wet spot on the floor. Stay safe, have fun and good luck.

I never attended the first day of machine shop 101 or any Gunsmithing related school. I purchased machines and learned from two old school Tool & Die Makers that were/are good friends, Don Kiser and Arthur Means. I also hand a hands on approach. You can learn a ton from youtube and asking questions then applying it to actual work.

 

[RobertB]

Thanks William, if I can build a rifle like you built my friend Jay I will be happy- I told my friend Andrew that your work was GTG he is supposed to have been in contact with you.

That sounds like good advice. I appreciate that.

If you need a shop hand let me know

 

[7mmRM]

Roscoe's right on the money.

I got into it with no experience what so ever. Roscoe, STR and a few others have been an unbelievable asset, with their knowledge and willingness to to spread it.

I say go for it. It will be fun. You will screw some stuff up, but there is literally no better way to learn.

Good luck. If I can help in any way, feel free to ask.

Isaac

 

[STR]

You need a lathe that's 13x40 / 14x40 max. A good used series 1 Bridgeport Mill will do all you ever need it to do. Take machine shop classes at a Vo Tech type school and skip Gunsmithing school. That is probably the most important piece of advice I can give.

Being a precision rifle builder is more like being a tool & die man anyway. Learn and research the required tooling in order to make the cuts first and then learn to run the machines. Learn to read mics and the other precision tools/instruments needed. Learn speeds and feeds and how to turn down the work piece to a specific number and then threading. Learn all of this on scrap first, your barrels second.

Purchase some tooling from places like PTG & JGS for reamers, pilots, range rods etc. and cutting/turning tools from MSC and ENCO.

Practice first by making fixtures and jigs.

Exercise extreme caution around running machines and never "reach in", they'll suck you in and spit you out the other side in a blink of an eye leaving a huge wet spot on the floor. Stay safe, have fun and good luck.

I never attended the first day of machine shop 101 or any Gunsmithing related school. I purchased machines and learned from two old school Tool & Die Makers that were/are good friends, Don Kiser and Arthur Means. I also hand a hands on approach. You can learn a ton from youtube and asking questions then applying it to actual work.

Very, very good advise from a guy that is considered by many, including me to be one of the very best precision rifle builders in the good old US of A. A while back a retired member here contacted me for a little advise, and before I knew it, he scored a Heavy 10 in excellent condition, and built two awesome first rifles for his son and nephew. They turned out great in all aspects, and this guy had zero experience in machining before buying his lathe. In my town another guy whom I met at a gun club ask a few questions about building rifles. He did the same as the first guy. He also had no experience with machining before his first lathe. Now he has a mill, and found an unused Colchester 13x40 1988 model in a box in an older gentleman's garage who bought it, and never powered it up. You can find used equipment in very good condition, or buy something like grizzly, or any of the better made taiwan lathes. Either way, you will do good. Then do what William already said. I wish you the best, and just be careful.

 

[Cigarcop]

Very, very good advise from a guy that is considered by many, including me to be one of the very best precision rifle builders in the good old US of A. A while back a retired member here contacted me for a little advise, and before I knew it, he scored a Heavy 10 in excellent condition, and built two awesome first rifles for his son and nephew. They turned out great in all aspects, and this guy had zero experience in machining before buying his lathe. In my town another guy whom I met at a gun club ask a few questions about building rifles. He did the same as the first guy. He also had no experience with machining before his first lathe. Now he has a mill, and found an unused Colchester 13x40 1988 model in a box in an older gentleman's garage who bought it, and never powered it up. You can find used equipment in very good condition, or buy something like grizzly, or any of the better made taiwan lathes. Either way, you will do good. Then do what William already said. I wish you the best, and just be careful.

Hey I know that guy! LOL

I'm still having a blast thanks to you Ozzie and a few others!

 

[Red_SC]

I'm right there with you, I just bought an Excello mill and a Southbend Fourteen lathe. I've been talking about it for years, we'll see if I can make something shoot.

 

[chipsfan]

Roscoe's right on the money.

I got into it with no experience what so ever. Roscoe, STR and a few others have been an unbelievable asset, with their knowledge and willingness to to spread it.

I say go for it. It will be fun. You will screw some stuff up, but there is literally no better way to learn.

Good luck. If I can help in any way, feel free to ask.

Isaac

I learned more from my mistakes then from stuff I did right. When I was watching Gold Rush on Discovery, I heard a guy say, "lessons cost money, good lessons cost lots of money"- I think that's true for a lot of life.

I ask a lot of questions and drive any machinist or tool and die maker I meet nuts with questions- those two jobs have celebrity status around me- I'm the last guy you want to mention your machinist job too at a party- I'll talk your ear off...

I wanted to buy a lathe and do barrels in 98. I was 22. I waited until a couple years ago and wish I didn't wait so long. Building your own rifle is a rewarding endeavor and a great way to expand your depth and understanding of firearms. I suggest making your first barrels long, I keep cutting everything down- one day I'll have an 18" 300 win mag because it seemed like a good idea on a boring weekend.

For what its worth I got start on pistol sights with a used mill, moved onto tactical shotguns with sights, chokes, backboring, etc... and ended up into the precision rifle thing. I basically knew nothing about gunsmithing when I started. I found a post I made on this forum in 2009 asking the thread on M700 action screws- it made me laugh.

 

[RobertB]

Still peeping the scene to see what I can find. Thanks alot guys, I just bought a house as my shop/house deal fell through for now. I sure hope I can make this happen soon. I would love to build my own guns.

 

[skinz0021]

I took a job at a machine shop to learn the machines & gain knowledge of machining. The reason i was interested in machining was for gunsmith purposes. I have worked on guns since i was 12 years old. I have had many projects and enjoy fixing up old beaters that were only good for parts before i got my hands on them. I have been machining for over a year and still dont think i would call myself a machinist ( or a gunsmith). In time i will change my thoughts but know i am still green right now.

I still screw up, just the other day i was going to drill/tap a 6-48 hole in my mauser for a 20MOA base. The front two holes matched my reciever but the rear one was off. I mounted the base with the front screws and was using a larger drill to locate the rear hole. After i located the hole i powered up the mill and drilled her home! Looked down to see the drill for the 6-48 tap on the table... Long story short i had to tap the hole 8-32. Had to make the screw fit the base and now it is mounted up ready for zero.

I wouldnt want to do that on a customers rifle. It had to have a new hole but not the wrong size!

I have fixed up a couple of guns for friends but got lucky with no screw ups on those.

Eventually i plan to buy a lathe and mill for my personal shop, but we have all the machines at work for whatever i need to do.