So I sold my POF, after 3 years I finally got bored. Sold her to a good friend who I know will treat the lady right. Now I needed something to go on hunting escapades. My new bitch had to be accurate, light (8lbs or less naked) and not throw my precious brass out into the woods or fart in my face when using a suppressor. The new lady would also have to be short enough to get into or out of a truck quickly. I have a metric shitload of 308 bullets and brass, so it would make sense to stick with the old warhorse.
A short bolt gun was in order. I didn't have the budget to go full custom this time around so I decided I should look into a rifle I know is a pretty safe bet for accuracy, as well as not needing any immediate upgrades (like a decent stock or trigger). I've had several factory Remingtons that shot well so I decided to get another 5R. The 20" threaded looked promising, but the Xmark Pro I wouldn't be happy with and 20" was on the longer side of what I felt appropriate. Alas! I found a like new 24" 5R built in 2005 and it came with a Badger base and the original old style Remington trigger. It looks like it has never been fired, not a scratch. This I could work with. For the price I paid it would be worth paying a gunsmith to cut and thread it, I'd come out ahead and I'd have a better crown and threads too.
I took the new beauty to the range and in 20 rounds the factory trigger broke. Well, fuck. Good excuse to try the new Timney, it'll be here tomorrow. But for 3 5 shot groups in factory form the old(new to me) girl averaged about 0.7 MOA at 200 yards with 175 FGMM, the largest being 0.85. Promising, and completely adequate for my purposes of hunting at 300 yards or less and banging steel out to 800.
So, being the curious type I am and knowing that I would be sending the rifle off for a new crown, thread and Cerakote job I decided this was a rare opportunity to see just how much a section of barrel weighs. Also it was a chance to try my hand at cutting a barrel, and what effect a less than prefect crown would have.
I broke out the trusty dull hacksaw that was a hand-me-down from Dear Old Dad and went to work. I cut the barrel as straight as I could to 19" from the bolt face. Took way longer than I expected, but came out satisfactorily I think. The rifle will be going to SAC to be finished at 18.5", and I can't wait to have a suppressed 308 again. I deburred the crown with a Lyman VLD deburring tool that I use for chamfering case mouths, just a couple of light spins.
The rifle as it sits tonight, 19" barrel:
Here is the 5" I cut off, it weighs exactly 10 ounces:
2 pics of the muzzle after my efforts, the Sharpie line is 18.5" from bolt face:
Going to the range Wednesday before I ship it, I have to see the results before Mark cleans it up. Anybody want to guess how it will shoot with the same 175 FGMM? It's hideous and I have zero experience to draw from but I'm going to guess it will still be very close to 1 MOA. If it pans out maybe I'll offer my services commercially, may have to make an initial investment in a Sawzall, but should pay for itself in no time.
FWIW, my goal was 10 lbs unloaded, and I'm 5 ounces over that as pictured with Badger alloy rings and base, a NF 2.5-10x42, stock pack and sling. Close enough.
UPDATE 8/13/14
Took it to the range this morning, weather was amazing for August in Texas. About 80 degrees when I started and very little wind. I brought the same 175 FGMM ammo (different box but same lot as the one before, purchased at same time), along with 8 rounds each of two different handloads that have proven to work well in other 308's I have owned. The results below are all shots fired. No attempt was made to compensate for wind, as they were under 10 MPH the whole time and moving around. I don't feel wind changed results at all. POI changes were me changing the scope adjustments, but all individual groups were fired with the same solution dialed in for the shots contained in it. 2 rounds were fired before this at the berm to smooth any burrs that may have been there and to foul the bore which was cleaned after cutting to remove any steel shavings that might have fallen down the barrel during cutting.
Picture 1 is at 100 yards, the orange dot target is 1.5" diameter.
Group 1 was a simple 3 shot group to check zero with 175 FGMM, looks good. POI was roughly the same as it had been previous to my cutting of the barrel, just a little bit left.
Groups 2 and 3 were 5 shot groups with 175 FGMM. Not the same results as I had with the factory barrel intact. I'm not sure what to make of this. It could be a result of the crown, but I think more likely the barrel harmonics having changed means this barrel doesn't like FGMM anymore. The scope was not adjusted between groups 1, 2, and 3 and notice how POI moves around. That would not surprise me as my 16.5" POF didn't shoot this ammo any better than this.
Group 4 was a 7 shot group of what was the master load for my POF as well as a 20" AAC-SD I had. It's a clone of the Hornady Match 168 Amax factory load except I'm using Lapua brass and loading them to 2.835" OAL, which is the longest I can load in the BDL magazine. You'll notice one called bad shot marked out with a blue Sharpie that I did not include. That one was all me, not used to having such a light trigger as this new Timney Calvin Elite(set at 8 oz.), and the rifle just went off before I was ready and meaning to pull the trigger. This is just a sample of one group, but it seems to shoot as well as anything ever has in a factory Remington. Well pleased with it and looking forward to verifying this result when the rifle comes back from being threaded and crowned. If it pans out this will probably be the load I use all the time, 168 Amax's have been excellent for hunting in my experience and should work fine for steel at reasonable distances.
Groups 5 and 6 were a load that had worked extremely well in my POF, a 155 Scenar over 44.9 grains of IMR 8208 XBR in Lapua brass. The numbers are on them are backwards vs the order they were fired in. 6 was a 5 shot, I adjusted the scope afterwards and fired the remaining 3 rounds, making group 5. With none of these loads having been worked up for this rifle I feel this shows promise.
Lastly, I fired a 5 shot group at 200 yards with the 175 FGMM, and got results much like it had at 100. Pretty close to MOA, but not nearly as good as good as it had shot prior to the hack job. The orange aiming dot is 1" diameter.
So there you have it. 3 different bullets, and 3 different powders. In conclusion I would say that these results are not defintive as I can't tell whether the crown or a change in harmonics caused the change in precision with 175 FGMM. I am however closer to believing that the crown is not as important as some make it out to be after seeing how well the 168 Amax load did. That one is unique in that it has worked well in two other short 308's. I wish I had gotten some before and after chronograph data as well, but I will eventually get some accurate numbers when the rifle is back from the smith.
UPDATE 9/7/14
Rifle still has not been sent out for crown and threads, taking it pig hunting for a couple of days before I send it out. Took it back to the range to re-zero after having it all disassembled this past week and remounting the scope. Here's the 168 Amax load with 44.2 grains of Varget again. Three 5 shot groups. Still looking good as is. Stragglers are scope adjustments.
UPDATE 9/10/14
Ok, one last update before it gets finished. This one I think most people would be more interested in because it's farther than 100 yards.
Took the rifle pig hunting but didn't see any oinkers so this morning before leaving I set up a target at 416 yards and let all 13 rounds I brought fly. I didn't have any velocity data or DOPE so I guessed at elevation without adjusting for wind. That is the 3 shot labeled group 3 that the wind had pushed off the paper. I adjusted fire after going downrange to check and fired group 2 which contains 6 shots. Then went up another 0.4 mils to keep the last group on paper but as a seperate grouping of 4 shots. Winds were squirrely, west TX is a good place to learn wind calls.
I'd be happy to leave the rifle like this if I didn't need it threaded for a can. If anyone is curious, I ran the drop through JBM and came up with ~2590 FPS. This unworked up load is Lapua brass, CCI 200 Primer, 44.2 grains of Varget and a 168 Amax seated at 2.200" base-ogive (2.835" OAL)
Life is too short not to indulge ourselves. Stop being a pussy and break out the tools (or the Krylon).
A short bolt gun was in order. I didn't have the budget to go full custom this time around so I decided I should look into a rifle I know is a pretty safe bet for accuracy, as well as not needing any immediate upgrades (like a decent stock or trigger). I've had several factory Remingtons that shot well so I decided to get another 5R. The 20" threaded looked promising, but the Xmark Pro I wouldn't be happy with and 20" was on the longer side of what I felt appropriate. Alas! I found a like new 24" 5R built in 2005 and it came with a Badger base and the original old style Remington trigger. It looks like it has never been fired, not a scratch. This I could work with. For the price I paid it would be worth paying a gunsmith to cut and thread it, I'd come out ahead and I'd have a better crown and threads too.
I took the new beauty to the range and in 20 rounds the factory trigger broke. Well, fuck. Good excuse to try the new Timney, it'll be here tomorrow. But for 3 5 shot groups in factory form the old(new to me) girl averaged about 0.7 MOA at 200 yards with 175 FGMM, the largest being 0.85. Promising, and completely adequate for my purposes of hunting at 300 yards or less and banging steel out to 800.
So, being the curious type I am and knowing that I would be sending the rifle off for a new crown, thread and Cerakote job I decided this was a rare opportunity to see just how much a section of barrel weighs. Also it was a chance to try my hand at cutting a barrel, and what effect a less than prefect crown would have.
I broke out the trusty dull hacksaw that was a hand-me-down from Dear Old Dad and went to work. I cut the barrel as straight as I could to 19" from the bolt face. Took way longer than I expected, but came out satisfactorily I think. The rifle will be going to SAC to be finished at 18.5", and I can't wait to have a suppressed 308 again. I deburred the crown with a Lyman VLD deburring tool that I use for chamfering case mouths, just a couple of light spins.
The rifle as it sits tonight, 19" barrel:
Here is the 5" I cut off, it weighs exactly 10 ounces:
2 pics of the muzzle after my efforts, the Sharpie line is 18.5" from bolt face:
Going to the range Wednesday before I ship it, I have to see the results before Mark cleans it up. Anybody want to guess how it will shoot with the same 175 FGMM? It's hideous and I have zero experience to draw from but I'm going to guess it will still be very close to 1 MOA. If it pans out maybe I'll offer my services commercially, may have to make an initial investment in a Sawzall, but should pay for itself in no time.
FWIW, my goal was 10 lbs unloaded, and I'm 5 ounces over that as pictured with Badger alloy rings and base, a NF 2.5-10x42, stock pack and sling. Close enough.
UPDATE 8/13/14
Took it to the range this morning, weather was amazing for August in Texas. About 80 degrees when I started and very little wind. I brought the same 175 FGMM ammo (different box but same lot as the one before, purchased at same time), along with 8 rounds each of two different handloads that have proven to work well in other 308's I have owned. The results below are all shots fired. No attempt was made to compensate for wind, as they were under 10 MPH the whole time and moving around. I don't feel wind changed results at all. POI changes were me changing the scope adjustments, but all individual groups were fired with the same solution dialed in for the shots contained in it. 2 rounds were fired before this at the berm to smooth any burrs that may have been there and to foul the bore which was cleaned after cutting to remove any steel shavings that might have fallen down the barrel during cutting.
Picture 1 is at 100 yards, the orange dot target is 1.5" diameter.
Group 1 was a simple 3 shot group to check zero with 175 FGMM, looks good. POI was roughly the same as it had been previous to my cutting of the barrel, just a little bit left.
Groups 2 and 3 were 5 shot groups with 175 FGMM. Not the same results as I had with the factory barrel intact. I'm not sure what to make of this. It could be a result of the crown, but I think more likely the barrel harmonics having changed means this barrel doesn't like FGMM anymore. The scope was not adjusted between groups 1, 2, and 3 and notice how POI moves around. That would not surprise me as my 16.5" POF didn't shoot this ammo any better than this.
Group 4 was a 7 shot group of what was the master load for my POF as well as a 20" AAC-SD I had. It's a clone of the Hornady Match 168 Amax factory load except I'm using Lapua brass and loading them to 2.835" OAL, which is the longest I can load in the BDL magazine. You'll notice one called bad shot marked out with a blue Sharpie that I did not include. That one was all me, not used to having such a light trigger as this new Timney Calvin Elite(set at 8 oz.), and the rifle just went off before I was ready and meaning to pull the trigger. This is just a sample of one group, but it seems to shoot as well as anything ever has in a factory Remington. Well pleased with it and looking forward to verifying this result when the rifle comes back from being threaded and crowned. If it pans out this will probably be the load I use all the time, 168 Amax's have been excellent for hunting in my experience and should work fine for steel at reasonable distances.
Groups 5 and 6 were a load that had worked extremely well in my POF, a 155 Scenar over 44.9 grains of IMR 8208 XBR in Lapua brass. The numbers are on them are backwards vs the order they were fired in. 6 was a 5 shot, I adjusted the scope afterwards and fired the remaining 3 rounds, making group 5. With none of these loads having been worked up for this rifle I feel this shows promise.
Lastly, I fired a 5 shot group at 200 yards with the 175 FGMM, and got results much like it had at 100. Pretty close to MOA, but not nearly as good as good as it had shot prior to the hack job. The orange aiming dot is 1" diameter.
So there you have it. 3 different bullets, and 3 different powders. In conclusion I would say that these results are not defintive as I can't tell whether the crown or a change in harmonics caused the change in precision with 175 FGMM. I am however closer to believing that the crown is not as important as some make it out to be after seeing how well the 168 Amax load did. That one is unique in that it has worked well in two other short 308's. I wish I had gotten some before and after chronograph data as well, but I will eventually get some accurate numbers when the rifle is back from the smith.
UPDATE 9/7/14
Rifle still has not been sent out for crown and threads, taking it pig hunting for a couple of days before I send it out. Took it back to the range to re-zero after having it all disassembled this past week and remounting the scope. Here's the 168 Amax load with 44.2 grains of Varget again. Three 5 shot groups. Still looking good as is. Stragglers are scope adjustments.
UPDATE 9/10/14
Ok, one last update before it gets finished. This one I think most people would be more interested in because it's farther than 100 yards.
Took the rifle pig hunting but didn't see any oinkers so this morning before leaving I set up a target at 416 yards and let all 13 rounds I brought fly. I didn't have any velocity data or DOPE so I guessed at elevation without adjusting for wind. That is the 3 shot labeled group 3 that the wind had pushed off the paper. I adjusted fire after going downrange to check and fired group 2 which contains 6 shots. Then went up another 0.4 mils to keep the last group on paper but as a seperate grouping of 4 shots. Winds were squirrely, west TX is a good place to learn wind calls.
I'd be happy to leave the rifle like this if I didn't need it threaded for a can. If anyone is curious, I ran the drop through JBM and came up with ~2590 FPS. This unworked up load is Lapua brass, CCI 200 Primer, 44.2 grains of Varget and a 168 Amax seated at 2.200" base-ogive (2.835" OAL)
Life is too short not to indulge ourselves. Stop being a pussy and break out the tools (or the Krylon).
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