HAMMERLI

COUGAR SECURITY

Private
Minuteman
Oct 9, 2020
24
5
HI EVERYONE.
i received as a gift a beautifull Hammerli Straight-Pull Competition Single Shot Target Rifle, BUT, i am not sure about which is de correct caliber.
the wooden stockk is brocken, probably they fell the rifle, it´s a heavy barrel gun, too heavy.
the rifle has a # 310 -105 number in the receiver.
can you help me with some information about the correct caliber for this rifle ?

thanks a lot,

Marie Franzika Vargas H.
 

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Well the one in the picture is described as being 6.5x55mm Swedish on an auction site. But that doesn't mean yours is. You can measure the muzzle diameter to get a rough idea, though. It'd help if you posted photos of the actual rifle and not one you found on the internet.
 
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My Google-fu isn't strong on this subject but it seems like a lot of these Swiss target rifles, either commercial ones or converted military rifles, are gonna be in 7.5mm Swiss. So it's a high likelihood yours will be, but again, no guarantee. Muzzle/bore diameter & bolt face diameter are your best methods of finding out. But I find it odd that the calibre wouldn't be on the rifle somewhere. I thought that would be standard practice even for a custom piece.
 
Hi, here are few pics.
Um... why is there a live 7.62 NATO cartridge in there? Those pics don't exactly help, I'm afraid. A 7.62 NATO cartridge will slide into any number of chambers it's not intended for, after all. I meant, for example, the receiver/action and any markings upon it. Or the bore/muzzle with a measuring tape across the diameter.
 
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Um... why is there a live 7.62 NATO cartridge in there? Those pics don't exactly help, I'm afraid. A 7.62 NATO cartridge will slide into any number of chambers it's not intended for, after all. I meant, for example, the receiver/action and any markings upon it. Or the bore/muzzle with a measuring tape across the diameter.
Dorn:

OP is brand new.. her second post. Looking for info.

This is vintage, not bear pit. Let’s provide some guidance gently and see what she has. If it is anything like the stock photo first posted... pretty cool.

To @COUGAR SECURITY... why would help are pictures of the complete rifle you have. And pictures of any markings. Numbers, letters, even symbols that can help with dating the piece.

It sounds like it is going to be a Swiss cal. But with some really good images, there are a ton of good folks, Dorn Included, who can really help.

Welcome to Snipers Hide. You picked a good section to introduce yourself and your new rifle in.

Sirhr
 
Um... why is there a live 7.62 NATO cartridge in there? Those pics don't exactly help, I'm afraid. A 7.62 NATO cartridge will slide into any number of chambers it's not intended for, after all. I meant, for example, the receiver/action and any markings upon it. Or the bore/muzzle with a measuring tape across the diameter.
i use live bullet, because its the unique that i have, but, i removed de bolt.
 
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Dorn:

OP is brand new.. her second post. Looking for info.

This is vintage, not bear pit. Let’s provide some guidance gently and see what she has. If it is anything like the stock photo first posted... pretty cool.

To @COUGAR SECURITY... why would help are pictures of the complete rifle you have. And pictures of any markings. Numbers, letters, even symbols that can help with dating the piece.

It sounds like it is going to be a Swiss cal. But with some really good images, there are a ton of good folks, Dorn Included, who can really help.

Welcome to Snipers Hide. You picked a good section to introduce yourself and your new rifle in.

Sirhr
No offense meant! I was more afraid for the OP having trouble with the cartridge getting stuck in there or worse. This one time when I accidentally put a .308 snap-cap into a Kar98k... Not a fun experience, lemme tell you, and I'm glad it wasn't a live round!

But aye, any and all pics of markings, numbers (minus the serial if you don't wanna give that out, we'll understand :), but the general serial range might help for those with stronger google-fu), even proof marks can tell us more. The Hammerli rifles are K31/K11s AFAICS, so I think 99% of the time it's gonna end up 7.5 Swiss, but some are rechambered for .308 WIN (which is different from 7.62 NATO so be a little careful with load pressures, these are older rifles), and as I said earlier, at least one was redone for 6.5 Swedish, although I wonder if that wasn't an error on that auction site...
 
No offense meant! I was more afraid for the OP having trouble with the cartridge getting stuck in there or worse. This one time when I accidentally put a .308 snap-cap into a Kar98k... Not a fun experience, lemme tell you, and I'm glad it wasn't a live round!

But aye, any and all pics of markings, numbers (minus the serial if you don't wanna give that out, we'll understand :), but the general serial range might help for those with stronger google-fu), even proof marks can tell us more. The Hammerli rifles are K31/K11s AFAICS, so I think 99% of the time it's gonna end up 7.5 Swiss, but some are rechambered for .308 WIN (which is different from 7.62 NATO so be a little careful with load pressures, these are older rifles), and as I said earlier, at least one was redone for 6.5 Swedish, although I wonder if that wasn't an error on that auction site...
uuufff, kar 98, nice gun, that´s why i ask for help, i don´t want to BLOW my rifle. thanks a lot,

i´m trying to take few pics.

y think that probably i´ll use some moulding wax to take a mould.


thanks.

MARIE FRANZISKA
 
uuufff, kar 98, nice gun, that´s why i ask for help, i don´t want to BLOW my rifle. thanks a lot,

i´m trying to take few pics.

y think that probably i´ll use some moulding wax to take a mould.


thanks.

MARIE FRANZISKA
Wax might work well. My concern there would that you'd have trouble completely filling the chamber and might not be able to remove it in one piece. But if you're careful it might work out. There might be something that'll work better, though.

Now, here's something that might help you out. This is a K31's bolt and it oughta be just about the same as yours:
1602379953226.png


If you measure that indented circular section (where the wee little hole for the firing pin is) and it's just a smidge over 12.5mm across, your rifle is probably a 7.5mm Swiss. You'll need a very fine ruler or tape for that, though.

Don't worry, we'll get this figured out sooner or later.
 
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uuufff, kar 98, nice gun, that´s why i ask for help, i don´t want to BLOW my rifle. thanks a lot,

i´m trying to take few pics.

y think that probably i´ll use some moulding wax to take a mould.


thanks.

MARIE FRANZISKA
Hmm, I dont know about moulding wax. Could work I suppose? For best results I would recommend cerrosafe.
 
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FEW PICS OF HAMMERLI 310 - 105
 

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Oh now that's nice. Shame about the crack in the stock, though.

And it doesn't have a calibre marking anywhere on it? At all? Why on earth would it not, I thought the Swiss were fanatical about detail what with their fancy watches and triangular chocolates and putting every tool imaginable in their pocket knives... ;)

What's it say on the top of the receiver? Hammerli and something beneath it?
 
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Oh now that's nice. Shame about the crack in the stock, though.

And it doesn't have a calibre marking anywhere on it? At all? Why on earth would it not, I thought the Swiss were fanatical about detail what with their fancy watches and triangular chocolates and putting every tool imaginable in their pocket knives... ;)

What's it say on the top of the receiver? Hammerli and something beneath it?


THE ONLY NUMBER I FOUND ON IT IS " 310 - 105 "
 
If you've never tried casting with metal before (I sure haven't), I'm not sure I'd recommend doing it? Especially on an old rifle like this one?
Its pretty straightforward.. If one aint comfortable doing it tho could always take it to a smith


Id definitely go with cerrosafe over wax or anything soft like that if it was me.. how in the world are you gonna pound anything soft out of a chamber while keeping dimensions the same??
 
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Oookeydokey here's what google tells me:

What you've got there appears to be a K31 that Hammerli reworked into a target rifle. It's probably a single-shot rifle now and it's almost guaranteed to be a 7.5 Swiss. They were converted, I think, in the early 1970s.

If you feel confident about doing a chamber cast, good luck!
 
Oookeydokey here's what google tells me:

What you've got there appears to be a K31 that Hammerli reworked into a target rifle. It's probably a single-shot rifle now and it's almost guaranteed to be a 7.5 Swiss. They were converted, I think, in the early 1970s.

If you feel confident about doing a chamber cast, good luck!
Correct. @buffalowinter has one thats quite similar, think his was modded by Tanner tho. Nice rifles.
 
UUFF, THERE IS NOT MUCH INFO ABOUT IT, I GOT A LOT OF 7,62 NATO AND 308 AMMO, IT WOULD BE NICE THAT I CAN USE IT .

I WILL TRY TO FIX THE STOCK, AND IF NOT, I´LL TRY TO USE A NUW ONE, NOT LIKE THE ORIGINAL, BUT, SOMETHING.
Unfortunately, if your rifle is 7.5 Swiss after all, your 7.62/.308 is kinda useless. Unless you have your rifle converted, and that might be easier said than done.
 
@zfk55sr or @buffalowinter could probably provide an answer to your questions about the Hammerli. I would think any competent stocker could repair the existing stock. A gunsmith can do a chamber casting for you to determine the cartridge. In all likelihood it is 7.5X55 Swiss but apparently some were converted to .308. Hammerli did all kinds of conversions for the K31s including airgun and .22RF. They also built .22s in a military K31 configuration for 50m target competitions.
 
@COUGAR SECURITY a couple of things for you here now that I am off a phone and have a keyboard.

First, yes, Buffalowinter has been summoned and he knows these guns really well.

Second, do not try and cast a chamber in wax. It's not going to work. There are casting alloys for this purpose, but if it's not something you do every day... don't try it! To determine the caliber, take gun to a gunsmith or have a museum or expert look at it. Determining a caliber is something that most gunsmiths won't even charge you for... it's a safety thing and also something that many (not all) gunsmiths do as a community service. But under no circumstances pour wax or paraffin or some other concoction into the chamber. You will create a gooey mess and the gun will then have to go to a gunsmith anyway...

Third, the stock crack is probably repairable by a good gunsmith IF noone has attempted to fix it before. Pouring in glue concoctions often makes an easily fixable crack into a totally un-repairable crack by contaminating the mating surfaces. If not expert in stock repair... don't try it.

Last, a couple of suggestions for site/board etiquette. And some of these apply to anyone visiting Vintage and seeking info. First, please don't type in all capital letters. It's hard to read. And in the Internet world, it is considered 'Shouting..." and only used for emphasis. Please turn Cap Lock off. And also, when you upload images, use the "Post Full Image" button to make your thumbnails full-size. It saves the folks who are looking at your pictures from having to do it!

And as I mentioned, when seeking information on a gun, part, etc. Detailed photos help. But also photos of any markings, no matter how small. Little characters of Lions and Crowns and Thistles may look irrelevant... but those proofmarks can tell where a gun was made, tested and even in what year. Seemingly random numbers are often lot numbers, partial serial numbers or part numbers that can narrow something down. There is a ton of expertise here and 'someone' is going to almost certainly zero in on what gun you have. I've never seen this place stumped yet. But posting as much info up front helps!

Hope this helps until we get our Swiss experts in here.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Its pretty straightforward.. If one aint comfortable doing it tho could always take it to a smith


Id definitely go with cerrosafe over wax or anything soft like that if it was me.. how in the world are you gonna pound anything soft out of a chamber while keeping dimensions the same??

A good primer on chamber casting for sure.

But don't do it at home unless you have the right tools and expertise. YouTube videos are amazing to show you how things are done. They are not an education on doing things right. At least not always.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Closest I could find with a little Google-fu is this rifle. It's called a 312, which makes me think that the 310 number may be a serial number prefix or model number.


Based on the descriptions, there should be markings, but maybe concealed by the stock or wood? The Swiss marked everything religiously. It's part of being Swiss.

Also, the target rifles are often left in Swiss Caliber. First, it is a very accurate caliber/cartridge. And second, if I recall correctly, the Swiss ammo was free at matches and only canned military ammo was used. No handloading. So it was you and your rifle against the field. Not handloading. But I could be wrong on that front. Buffalowinter used to compete in these matches. So he would know. But there was little need to convert to 7.62x51 (.308) unless a gun was specifically being exported to a place where 7.5 Swiss was hard to get. That said, I am sure there were guns made in 7.62 NATO as mentioned above.

Anyway, you have a beautiful rifle and with a stock repair, probably an amazing shooter! I'll post some pix of mine, built by Buffalowinter, later.

Sirhr
 
scheutzen.jpg


Scheutzen 7.5 Swiss made by BuffaloWinter. Amazing rifle. The barrel is still 'in the white' and the scope is just loosely attached until I get the metal finishing done. I have pretty much decided to 'brown' it rather than blue it. I think it would look amazing that way. Lots of interesting things were done with the Swiss straight pulls.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
View attachment 7443302

Scheutzen 7.5 Swiss made by BuffaloWinter. Amazing rifle. The barrel is still 'in the white' and the scope is just loosely attached until I get the metal finishing done. I have pretty much decided to 'brown' it rather than blue it. I think it would look amazing that way. Lots of interesting things were done with the Swiss straight pulls.

Cheers,

Sirhr
Nice. Who made the stock?
 
Oh wow!
Talented indeed.
Do you know what brand the barrel is?
Yes. Swiss Army rifle barrel. It's a stock swiss military rifle, re-stocked as a scheutzen in the same traditions they use in... Switzerland. Where they compete with these sorts of things on the weekends. Winner gets little pieces of triangular chocolate and a Heidi DVD set.

Sirhr
 
@COUGAR SECURITY a couple of things for you here now that I am off a phone and have a keyboard.

First, yes, Buffalowinter has been summoned and he knows these guns really well.

Second, do not try and cast a chamber in wax. It's not going to work. There are casting alloys for this purpose, but if it's not something you do every day... don't try it! To determine the caliber, take gun to a gunsmith or have a museum or expert look at it. Determining a caliber is something that most gunsmiths won't even charge you for... it's a safety thing and also something that many (not all) gunsmiths do as a community service. But under no circumstances pour wax or paraffin or some other concoction into the chamber. You will create a gooey mess and the gun will then have to go to a gunsmith anyway...

Third, the stock crack is probably repairable by a good gunsmith IF noone has attempted to fix it before. Pouring in glue concoctions often makes an easily fixable crack into a totally un-repairable crack by contaminating the mating surfaces. If not expert in stock repair... don't try it.

Last, a couple of suggestions for site/board etiquette. And some of these apply to anyone visiting Vintage and seeking info. First, please don't type in all capital letters. It's hard to read. And in the Internet world, it is considered 'Shouting..." and only used for emphasis. Please turn Cap Lock off. And also, when you upload images, use the "Post Full Image" button to make your thumbnails full-size. It saves the folks who are looking at your pictures from having to do it!

And as I mentioned, when seeking information on a gun, part, etc. Detailed photos help. But also photos of any markings, no matter how small. Little characters of Lions and Crowns and Thistles may look irrelevant... but those proofmarks can tell where a gun was made, tested and even in what year. Seemingly random numbers are often lot numbers, partial serial numbers or part numbers that can narrow something down. There is a ton of expertise here and 'someone' is going to almost certainly zero in on what gun you have. I've never seen this place stumped yet. But posting as much info up front helps!

Hope this helps until we get our Swiss experts in here.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Thanks a lot.
if i wrote in caps, was because in my phone, i can see better the leters in CAPS, sorry.

when i said i´ll doo a wax mould, it was not literally, probably, i´ll use a casting mix, like electric soldering wire or similar, thanks you for worry about my safety.

yesterday i found some info, about HAMMERLI, made few 308 rifles, for exports, so, thats probabli why my uncle let me that amount of 7,62 and 308 bullets.

but, i preffer to be sure, he was an Gunsmith, and he works with a lot of different guns.

when i´ll do the cast, i´ll try to documment it, to post it here.

thanks a lot to evey one.

Marie Franziska.
 
Thanks a lot.
if i wrote in caps, was because in my phone, i can see better the leters in CAPS, sorry.

when i said i´ll doo a wax mould, it was not literally, probably, i´ll use a casting mix, like electric soldering wire or similar, thanks you for worry about my safety.

yesterday i found some info, about HAMMERLI, made few 308 rifles, for exports, so, thats probabli why my uncle let me that amount of 7,62 and 308 bullets.

but, i preffer to be sure, he was an Gunsmith, and he works with a lot of different guns.

when i´ll do the cast, i´ll try to documment it, to post it here.

thanks a lot to evey one.

Marie Franziska.

Hi Marie:

Don't use soldering wire... that is generally a 50/50 mix of lead and tin. And will NOT release from the chamber. The only safe material to use is Cerrobend or a similar low-temp alloy for the purpose. Also called "Woods Metal." It's a metal that melts at hot water temperatures... and then shrinks back enough to let it come out of the chamber. If you put solder in your barrel.... you will cause really serious problems. Getting it out being a serious problem!


You have some beautiful rifles there! The Hammerli being a gem!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Hi Marie:

Don't use soldering wire... that is generally a 50/50 mix of lead and tin. And will NOT release from the chamber. The only safe material to use is Cerrobend or a similar low-temp alloy for the purpose. Also called "Woods Metal." It's a metal that melts at hot water temperatures... and then shrinks back enough to let it come out of the chamber. If you put solder in your barrel.... you will cause really serious problems. Getting it out being a serious problem!


You have some beautiful rifles there! The Hammerli being a gem!

Cheers,

Sirhr


thanks for your advise, i´ll look for CERROBEND.

thanks a lot.


Marie.
 
What you're looking for is" cerrosafe". It is available at Brownell's, they ship internationally. Go to https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-.../cerrosafe-chamber-casting-alloy-prod384.aspx I t is very easy to use and comes with instructions. I am travelling right now and am parked in front of a restaurant leeching off their wifi so can't talk. Your rifle is almost certainly 7.5x55 swiss, but a chamber cast can't hurt. The caliber should be marked on the left side of the barrel in front of the receiver.

1602464682045.png


here are various products on the market which can be used to make a cast of a gun chamber. To be certain that the product we are offering you is the best and most practical, we contacted the basic manufacturer. They recommended Cerrosafe because of its unique features. Unlike Woodsmetal which swells upon cooling and cannot be removed from a gun chamber, Cerrosafe shrinks during the first 30 minutes of cooling and then at the end of an hour, is EXACTLY chamber size. At the end of 200 hours it will have expanded approximately .0025". This factor is well known by all toolmakers and they will take it into consideration when making dies or reamers or gauges from your cast - if you will tell them the cast is of Cerrosafe. Cerrosafe melts between 158° - 190° F. It should be melted in a clean, iron ladle. Source of heat should be removed as soon as the alloy is completely melted, at which time it is ready to pour. The solidified casting should be removed from the chamber before, or when, it cools to room temperature. If allowed to remain in the mold over an hour, it will grip the chamber walls and be difficult to remove. Clean the chamber of the rifle thoroughly, then plug the bore immediately ahead of the throat with a small rag - but not so tightly it cannot be driven out. If possible, pour the molten Cerrosafe through a small tube into the bottom of the cast, gradually removing the tube as the chamber fills. If the barrel is cold, warm it to room temperature or above before making the cast. When cooled, remove from chamber, using a rod or dowel from the muzzle end of the gun.
 
What you're looking for is" cerrosafe". It is available at Brownell's, they ship internationally. Go to https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-.../cerrosafe-chamber-casting-alloy-prod384.aspx I t is very easy to use and comes with instructions. I am travelling right now and am parked in front of a restaurant leeching off their wifi so can't talk. Your rifle is almost certainly 7.5x55 swiss, but a chamber cast can't hurt. The caliber should be marked on the left side of the barrel in front of the receiver.

View attachment 7443845

here are various products on the market which can be used to make a cast of a gun chamber. To be certain that the product we are offering you is the best and most practical, we contacted the basic manufacturer. They recommended Cerrosafe because of its unique features. Unlike Woodsmetal which swells upon cooling and cannot be removed from a gun chamber, Cerrosafe shrinks during the first 30 minutes of cooling and then at the end of an hour, is EXACTLY chamber size. At the end of 200 hours it will have expanded approximately .0025". This factor is well known by all toolmakers and they will take it into consideration when making dies or reamers or gauges from your cast - if you will tell them the cast is of Cerrosafe. Cerrosafe melts between 158° - 190° F. It should be melted in a clean, iron ladle. Source of heat should be removed as soon as the alloy is completely melted, at which time it is ready to pour. The solidified casting should be removed from the chamber before, or when, it cools to room temperature. If allowed to remain in the mold over an hour, it will grip the chamber walls and be difficult to remove. Clean the chamber of the rifle thoroughly, then plug the bore immediately ahead of the throat with a small rag - but not so tightly it cannot be driven out. If possible, pour the molten Cerrosafe through a small tube into the bottom of the cast, gradually removing the tube as the chamber fills. If the barrel is cold, warm it to room temperature or above before making the cast. When cooled, remove from chamber, using a rod or dowel from the muzzle end of the gun.

Hi,
i recentlly found this page, is almos certain a 7.5 mm.



but is almos imposible to found this caliber here in Chile. bad luck, but, i´ll try to import few boxes from germany in my next trip.

thanks a lot, and, when we can get out fron quarentine, i´ll go to a blacksmith, or, al least thats the IDEA.

Regards,

Marie Franziska.