Hard to chamber a round.

[tacticalpanda]

Hi was looking for a little help solving a problem. I just built my first rifle based on a stevens 200 action (with .308 bolt face) with a Criterion prefit barrel in .308 with a Mcree stock. I took it out for the first time today and it was extremely difficult to chamber a round. The round seems to slide in fine but when I go to lock the bolt down I have to use a lot of force. I was told the Criterion barrels were finished and did not need anymore reaming. Also on the rounds there is a bit of a chip on each round on the rim (see pic below). So far I've tried loosing both the screws on the Chassis, trying to chamber without the chassis and all still the same. If I really slam the bolt in there and then push to lock it down it will work. The gun was headspaced by a gunsmith and not myself. He explained to me the go gauges and showed me and it seemed to chamber the go gauge just fine.

Any help would be apprecaited.

Also I am shooting cheap CBC ammo. It's all you can find up here right now and since no one ships to the black hole that is MA I am stuck using this until I stumble upon match grade ammo.


This round has been chambered a few times.

 

[bward]

Since it will close with a go gauge your ammo is probably out of spec. I've had to bump back new Remington brass .002 to get it to chamber before. It just happens sometimes.

 

[mattj]

If it's not headspace, the COAL of the round could conceivably be longer than your chamber .... you can put some sharpie on the bullet, try to chamber the round, carefully extract the round, and see if the sharpie is all rubbed off from being jammed up against and into the lands.

 

[tacticalpanda]

If it's not headspace, the COAL of the round could conceivably be longer than your chamber .... you can put some sharpie on the bullet, try to chamber the round, carefully extract the round, and see if the sharpie is all rubbed off from being jammed up against and into the lands.

Gave that a try as someone else recommended it. Rubbed off a bit on the tip and on the shoulder a bit as well.

 

[Knight6]

I am having the same issue with my new GAP 308. I checked with them and it does appear to be all about tolerances. GAP use minimum SAMMI measurements so the chamber is real tight. Basically if you have a really well made gun then you probably have very little room for anything that is out of spec in terms of ammo. For me this meant that basically I have to use good quality ammo like Black Hills Match, Federal Match, good custom ammo etc, which of course is so easy to get right now (J). I also tried CBC and Ultramax as cheap but hopefully decent practice ammo and the gun just didn't want to eat it, same types of marks as on your ammo. Went back to BH etc and no problem.

 

[FALex]

I just put this post on arfcom...CBC brass and Savage actions do not mix...at all. I would try different ammo (read brass), and if it continues, seek the opinion of another smith.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Had same issue with my Model 70 300 wsm with factory and handload ammo, first 5 would feed fine after that had binding, by 10 rounds I could not close the bolt, sent it back to winchester, 3 weeks late no problem.

 

[tacticalpanda]

I just put this post on arfcom...CBC brass and Savage actions do not mix...at all. I would try different ammo (read brass), and if it continues, seek the opinion of another smith.

Will give that a try. Been trying to find some though. There is nothing available in MA except I know one shop that has Wolf steel case. Will keep looking.

Good to know that they don't mix. Wish I didn't have 250 rounds of it though.

 

[mattj]

Gave that a try as someone else recommended it. Rubbed off a bit on the tip and on the shoulder a bit as well.

Looks to me like the bullet is jamming into the lands pretty good there --- I bet that's the problem. If it was headspace preventing you from closing the bolt and not the bullet, I wouldn't expect you would have been able to imbed that much. (depending on what kind of ammo you actually want to shoot from this thing, you might want to have your smith go back and add some more freebore).

 

[cmh2007]

I have found that CBC brass tends to be trimmed a bit long. I measured a bunch that i shot up a while back and found it was about 25 thou long

 

[logancummins338]

Coal is too long!

 

[tacticalpanda]

Coal is too long!

So it seems the general consensus is the ammo is the problem. The only other .308 I think I can get is Wolf. Will pick up a box tomorrow and give it a try.

 

[logancummins338]

What kinda bullets are they?

 

[FALex]

not only is the CBC long, it is super soft due to the alloy composition. My cases were trimmed to spec, and still jammed the bolt up. The kicker is, is that it bound my friend's Model 10fcp hs up also. I can almost guarantee it is that damn ammo.

OP - If I were you, I'd sell the remaining rounds and just try to be patient until the good stuff starts coming back around again.

Now's a good time to get a lot of practice on that Winchester Model 94! Plenty of .30-.30 to go around!

 

[tacticalpanda]

not only is the CBC long, it is super soft due to the alloy composition. My cases were trimmed to spec, and still jammed the bolt up. The kicker is, is that it bound my friend's Model 10fcp hs up also. I can almost guarantee it is that damn ammo.

OP - If I were you, I'd sell the remaining rounds and just try to be patient until the good stuff starts coming back around again.

Now's a good time to get a lot of practice on that Winchester Model 94! Plenty of .30-.30 to go around!

Ok cool. Only thing is I just joined a shooting team to start learning to shoot longer distances. Was hoping to get in some time on this months practice, but such is life. Will keep my eye out for .308.

 

[bodywerks]

Don't bother with wolf! You'll be able to chamber it, sure, but extracting it after you fire it will be a whole other problem. I'll roll you some if you're that hard up for ammo.
Have you shopped online? You say they won't ship to you? MA, as in Massachusetts?

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[JBomb]

I'm not sure if this is the problem...but, in your picture the bullet has black all over it except the cannelure. It appears the bullet may be jammed into the rifling and when you extract the round it has pulled the bullet a little out the case. If this is the case, your COAL is too long.

Try to coat the whole bullet in black even where it meets the case mouth, then when you extract the bullet and it has a shiny copper ring around the mouth...your definitely pulling the bullet out from the case.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Jared

 

[Knight6]

I think right now you will not have a problem selling those 250 rounds. Your rifle might not like them but many do.

 

[tacticalpanda]

Don't bother with wolf! You'll be able to chamber it, sure, but extracting it after you fire it will be a whole other problem. I'll roll you some if you're that hard up for ammo.
Have you shopped online? You say they won't ship to you? MA, as in Massachusetts?

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Yea most companies won't ship here because the AG threatens them even though there is no law saying they can't. Really annoying.

I have the day off tomorrow and am going in search of ammo. If not I may take you up on your offer.

 

[rjacobs]

Get you a single stage and some .308 dies and start rolling your own. For the cost of ammo you would break even VERY quickly. I bet you could get into a Lee and the required accessories for maybe $300-400.

 

[tacticalpanda]

Get you a single stage and some .308 dies and start rolling your own. For the cost of ammo you would break even VERY quickly. I bet you could get into a Lee and the required accessories for maybe $300-400.

Am doing that at present. Again the problem is getting components in MA. Most places won't even ship cases, primers, powder and what not. I have a press. Dies are on order. Have some powder and primers no looking for bullets and can't find any. This state is a black hole.

 

[Papagallos]

Coal is too long!

I concur with this statement. I had a very similar issue with one of my rifles and and just seating the bullet a couple of hundreths of a inch deeper made all the difference.

 

[cmh2007]

Look at powder valley, they have both powders and bullets in stock at the very moment

 

[tacticalpanda]

Picked up some snap caps today and some Federal American Eagle 308. The problem still is there. The CBC is the hardest to chamber. Then the Federal, then the snap caps. The Federal and snap caps slide in the chamber fine its just pushing the bolt down to lock it in is when it gets hard.

Will get measurements tonight though and am going to contact the gunsmith who worked on it.

 

[jsthntn247]

Sounds like your headspace is too tight

 

[tacticalpanda]

Just took three measurements of three different ammos

CBC - 2.789
Federal Gold Medal Match Sierra match kings - 2.799
Federal American Eagle - 2.706
The FGMM required the least amount of effort to lock the bolt. Should I try to re-headspace it myself? Can get gauges in a few days.

 

[tacticalpanda]

Thanks for the help everyone. Turns out the smith I took it to does not know how to headspace a gun. I did it myself tonight and it is running smoothly.

 

[Knight6]

Did the change in headspace allow you to use all the so called 308 brands or only within a defined spec? I have never changed the headspace where did you pic up the info'. I think I need to do the same with mine.

 

[tacticalpanda]

I borrowed some go/nogo gauges. I found the go to chamber but not smoothly. So I decided to check and adjust the head space. Turned it about a 1/8 of a turn. Then tried the gauges again. The go gauge went fine and the no go gauge didn't go. So then grabbed some ammo and tried it. All three brands went in smoothly. I paid $100 to get it head spaced (I needed this gun in a few days so couldn't wait for gauges due to joining a rifle team and wanting to get out in the monthly practice) and the guy didn't do his job. Really pissed about it and can't do anything. But at least the gun seems to be working. Going to put some rounds down range tomorrow and see how it shoots.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Thanks for the help everyone. Turns out the smith I took it to does not know how to headspace a gun. I did it myself tonight and it is running smoothly.

Interesting, how did you do it yourself? Either you milled down the bolt face, added a shim to push the barrel out, or increased the depth of the chamber (possible if you have a reamer).

PS We posted about the same time and you described what you did to increase the headspace. I think you're saying that you unscrewed the barrel by 1/8 turn. The barrel threads are probably 16 TPI, so you increased the headspace by about 0.007". If you are planning to shoot with your barrel unscrewed by 1/8 turn, don't!

 

[tacticalpanda]

Interesting, how did you do it yourself? Either you milled down the bolt face, added a shim to push the barrel out, or increased the depth of the chamber (possible if you have a reamer).

From the videos I watched online I just inserted the gauge then screwed the barrel down until it hit the gauge then locked it a down a bit and tried the no go gauge. Once I found the spot where the go gauge worked and the no go gauge didn't work I tightned down the barrel nut. Hopefully this is correct.

 

[bodywerks]

Interesting, how did you do it yourself? Either you milled down the bolt face, added a shim to push the barrel out, or increased the depth of the chamber (possible if you have a reamer).

Its a savage. It has a barrel nut. Its a do it yourself job

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[One-Eyed Jack]

Thanks, I don't know anything about Savages except they shoot well for factory rifles. Being able to headspace yourself like that is sort of amazing.

 

[jolofree]

Thanks, I don't know anything about Savages except they shoot well for factory rifles. Being able to headspace yourself like that is sort of amazing.

I'm not a Savage man either but that's cool, can you really do that, I mean change the headspace yourself to accommodate different COAL spec ammo?

 

[glassbeaver]

Jamming into the lands is usually a result of throat length not headspace. Even on a savage barrel that requires reaming. Super cool, however, is the ability to dodge a 300 dollar/6 month wait to have a barrel installed. Order a prefit, gauges, nut and action wrench and you are gtg.

 

[tacticalpanda]

Super cool, however, is the ability to dodge a 300 dollar/6 month wait to have a barrel installed. Order a prefit, gauges, nut and action wrench and you are gtg.

This is exactly why I went Savage. I will probably change calibers in the next year and all I have to do is buy a new barrel.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Jamming into the lands is usually a result of throat length not headspace. Even on a savage barrel that requires reaming. Super cool, however, is the ability to dodge a 300 dollar/6 month wait to have a barrel installed. Order a prefit, gauges, nut and action wrench and you are gtg.

This is a great point. For example, if you want a 6mm barrel for shooting 115DTACs, you gotta make sure the throat is long enough, but not too long. In other words, for a "match chamber" the chamber and throat length should be right on. Dunno if you can buy Savage barrels for specific chambers and bullets.

 

[glassbeaver]

This is a great point. For example, if you want a 6mm barrel for shooting 115DTACs, you gotta make sure the throat is long enough, but not too long. In other words, for a "match chamber" the chamber and throat length should be right on. Dunno if you can buy Savage barrels for specific chambers and bullets.

You can. Most manufacturers will allow you to send in your own reamer as an option as well.