Hart Barrels w/PDC and Oryx chassis

[MLone]

I just finished my two builds I was working on. Both have Hart barrels and Athlon ETR 4.5x30x56 scopes. One has the Oryx chassis, CZ455/24" barrel. The other the PDC, CZ457/26" barrel. I finished the Oryx and have shot it once, last week. I just shot 50yds so far and the first 6 shots of TAC22 went through the same hole, not a ragged hole, the same hole and then one flyer and 3 more in a now ragged hole. Thats a 455 with a Mr Fly trigger. I havent shot any high dollar ammo through it yet.

Tomorrow I shoot the PDC and see how it does. I am taking some TAC22 just like with the first gun but I am also bringing some Eley Match, Lapua Center X, and Lapua Long Range, to see how it behaves with good ammo and whether or not the batches are liked by the barrel. Hoping for a low wind day or I wont waste that high dollar ammo and just shoot the TAC22 and probably some CCI STD.

Anybody have any questions about Hart barrels, just ask and I will do my best to answer. I had a 5 month lead time with them. Same for PDC. The quality is such that I think its worth the wait.

 

[Mark_Dorman]

Nice looking rifles. I've started to hear more about Hart Barrels recently. They seem nice but following to see how they shoot. What diameter are the barrels?

 

[MLone]

Nice looking rifles. I've started to hear more about Hart Barrels recently. They seem nice but following to see how they shoot. What diameter are the barrels?

They are 1". I'm going to shoot that 26" tomorrow. Im hoping for a low wind day. Mark, I was talking to you over on RFC about some of this. I think a lot of people dont use Hart because of the cost. I never compared them to Lilja because of the atmosphere at Hart. Family operation that concentrates on craftsmanship and quality rather than mass production. It didnt bother me about the 5 month backlog because it was 5 months for the PDC chassis. I love the Oryx 455 which I already shot and tomorrow I will find out what kind of gun that PDC 457 is.

 

[bobby1028]

Following. Do they do oversize tenon w/barrel shims like Lilja, or bolt shims for headspace tuning ?

 

[MLone]

Following. Do they do oversize tenon w/barrel shims like Lilja, or bolt shims for headspace tuning ?

I cant answer that question. I had two barrels made and sent the actions off to them and they installed the barrels and head spaced the assembly for me. They charged me 50 bucks per barreled action to do that. Karen Hart can help you with all that. Send her an email about it and she will get with Jim and get an answer. I paid 570 per barrel plus extras and shipping. YMMV

 

[Mark_Dorman]

$570/barrel seems quite reasonable if they're on par with the likes of Lilja and Modacam prefits. Really interested to hear how they shoot.

 

[MLone]

$570/barrel seems quite reasonable if they're on par with the likes of Lilja and Modacam prefits. Really interested to hear how they shoot.

I tried to shoot today Mark, but the wind sucked today. I shot anyway just to shoot. Ever since Milton came through here we havent had many days without gusting wind. I shot many different types of ammo today but the wind made it look like a lot of flyers. I would hammer the center of an ARA target and then have them going all over the place. It also could have been that I maybe didnt have the right lot numbers even though I had a good brand. When I shot the 24" the week before the wind wasnt as bad and I ran the ARA target with 99% bullseye and 12 out of 25 center shots. I really want to get a good day and post some targets where you can see. Do you want 5 shot groups? I'll try to give you what you want.

 

[Mark_Dorman]

I tried to shoot today Mark, but the wind sucked today. I shot anyway just to shoot. Ever since Milton came through here we havent had many days without gusting wind. I shot many different types of ammo today but the wind made it look like a lot of flyers. I would hammer the center of an ARA target and then have them going all over the place. It also could have been that I maybe didnt have the right lot numbers even though I had a good brand. When I shot the 24" the week before the wind wasnt as bad and I ran the ARA target with 99% bullseye and 12 out of 25 center shots. I really want to get a good day and post some targets where you can see. Do you want 5 shot groups? I'll try to give you what you want.

Sorry to hear the weather hasn't been cooperative. Sounds like a solid initial test and outing regardless of the weather.

I would love to see some 5 or 10 shot groups at 50 and 100, but also don't want to have you go out of your way if it's not something you normally do for ammo testing.

 

[MLone]

Sorry to hear the weather hasn't been cooperative. Sounds like a solid initial test and outing regardless of the weather.

I would love to see some 5 or 10 shot groups at 50 and 100, but also don't want to have you go out of your way if it's not something you normally do for ammo testing.

that is not a problem if I get the right weather. Yesterday I couldnt see wasting good ammo when the wind was making it shoot like Thunderbolt. When you are getting flyers with Long Range, or Tenex, its not a good day to shoot. I brought some cheap stuff so the day wasnt wasted and I was able to put some down the pipe. I wasnt going to shoot 100 yesterday but I did put some MagTech $.05 a round down range at sub MOA 10 rounders. Like you, I want to see what it will do with good ammo. I plan to go Monday. Praying for good weather.

 

[MLone]

Sorry to hear the weather hasn't been cooperative. Sounds like a solid initial test and outing regardless of the weather.

I would love to see some 5 or 10 shot groups at 50 and 100, but also don't want to have you go out of your way if it's not something you normally do for ammo testing.

I was able to shoot some 50yd shots yesterday. There was a 16mph wind, with gusts, coming from 4 o'clock and it still shot decent at 50. The bottom row 3 groups are all 10 shots. All the rest are 5. The middle center was adjusting scope. All TAC22. I wasnt willing to do the 100 or use good ammo.

 

[68hoyt]

Following , want to see what the Hart will do

 

[MLone]

I gave up trying to wait for no/low wind. Had 12MPH winds with gusts to 18. First pic im on the 100 #16. You cant see wind flag in 2nd pic. 3rd pic center target was initial shots after I estimated wind and drop. Upper and lower, right and left, are 10 shot groups. 4th pic 3" target with 1/2" bullseye. All are 10 shot groups except top 3 and first target in second row which are 5 shot groups. All shot with TAC22. 5th target was left by a guy, the lowest hole was there, I put the 5 above it TAC22. 6th pic ARA target at 50yds. This is why I decided to shoot the 100. There are 2 flyers in these targets totally ammo related. These were shot with Eley Match. I installed a Jard trigger @4oz in the gun. That trigger is awesome and I recommend it. I probably should add that these examples were shot from a bipod. Im going to invest in a cheap bench rest to take me out of the mix. I dont want to buy a good one because Im not interested in bench shooting. Now if I can get a good one for cheap.....LOL

 

[bobby1028]

Wind was up for sure. Nice groups in those conditions. If not lot testing I look forward to a range day with strong winds, break out the Tac22 and practice wind calls...humbling but very informative results.

 

[MLone]

Wind was up for sure. Nice groups in those conditions. If not lot testing I look forward to a range day with strong winds, break out the Tac22 and practice wind calls...humbling but very informative results

That is exactly what I was doing there. If you look at that square target in pic #3 I estimated drop and wind and the center square of that target was where my first shots landed. Couple more clicks to the left and I was on it. That is the main reason I got into 22LR. I realized that my scope knowledge was limited to deer hunting, making sure your zero was still good, hunting, and waiting for the next year. If I shot past my 100 zero I would use the reticle and Kentucky windage to make the shot. There is a place for that but I feel the correct way was to learn how to adjust the scope on the fly. I never even heard of bullet dope. Now I have a little book with different brands of bullets, MV's, and drops. I have learned so much in the last year and come to really realize and enjoy what the 22LR brings to you in knowledge. Centerfire hides imperfections in technique. Rimfire exposes them.

 

[Shifty6BR]

I'm running a 14tw Hart cut with an eps reamer on a Rimx ...work was done over at Modocam, it's well over 4k in round count now. It absolutely hammers sk rifle match so I stopped there.


Testing out a Scopemate with the Hart..

 

[MLone]

I was shooting some rifle match yesterday. My barrel didnt like it but it might have been the batch too. It seems to like Eley the best so I ordered a sampler brick of Tenex yesterday to see if any of those batches flip a switch. Another one it liked was SK Pistol Match. If I sample that Eley brick and find one that it really likes, I will order a bunch of that. Have you ever run any TAC22 through yours? Mines shoots that real well but with flyers. I have a ton of that and am thinking of weighing them and seeing if I can get rid of the flyers.

 

[Shifty6BR]

I was shooting some rifle match yesterday. My barrel didnt like it but it might have been the batch too. It seems to like Eley the best so I ordered a sampler brick of Tenex yesterday to see if any of those batches flip a switch. Another one it liked was SK Pistol Match. If I sample that Eley brick and find one that it really likes, I will order a bunch of that. Have you ever run any TAC22 through yours? Mines shoots that real well but with flyers. I have a ton of that and am thinking of weighing them and seeing if I can get rid of the flyers.

I have only really tried what I had on hand when I got the rifle back, basically sk stuff, stand plus and RM...also some eley club which I had a 452 really like.

The RM shot so well, results were the same with another different lot batch so I just fuggitaboutit and ran exclusively with the RM.

Standard plus was pretty good but ya, I was seeing those intermittent fliers here and there.

Eley club was terrible inside 100yds.., jekyll and Hyde like at 50, it would do well at times and just horrendous at others. Chrony showing speeds right at the cusp of supersonic with an occasional one here and there going full super at muzzle. Tho it does extremely well at 100 and beyond, very very well...I believe it works itself out from 50-100 and stabilizes in the subsonic range beyond that with slightly higher speed to help it out there than say the RM which is well under super at the muzzle.

Haven't tried any tac tho sorry could not feedback on that.

The beauty of rimfire...

 

[Tazmon]

I'm running a 14tw Hart cut with an eps reamer on a Rimx ...work was done over at Modocam, it's well over 4k in round count now. It absolutely hammers sk rifle match so I stopped there. View attachment 8539592


Testing out a Scopemate with the Hart..

Very nice.
Just a wee bit windy….!

 

[bobby1028]

I was shooting some rifle match yesterday. My barrel didnt like it but it might have been the batch too. It seems to like Eley the best so I ordered a sampler brick of Tenex yesterday to see if any of those batches flip a switch. Another one it liked was SK Pistol Match. If I sample that Eley brick and find one that it really likes, I will order a bunch of that. Have you ever run any TAC22 through yours? Mines shoots that real well but with flyers. I have a ton of that and am thinking of weighing them and seeing if I can get rid of the flyers.

I'm running a 21in Lilja, 1:16 twist with their proprietary match chamber. Eley Match and SK rifle Match are my go to for competition. I have a load of Tac22 and it shoots very well also, but as you said more flyers than match ammo. At $4.00 a box it's a real bargain...I wouldn't want to shoot a smaller KYL with it, but it holds close to MOA out to 200yds, if I had to shoot it I would. Not everybody gets those results with it, but many do.

 

[MLone]

I have only really tried what I had on hand when I got the rifle back, basically sk stuff, stand plus and RM...also some eley club which I had a 452 really like.

The RM shot so well, results were the same with another different lot batch so I just fuggitaboutit and ran exclusively with the RM.

Standard plus was pretty good but ya, I was seeing those intermittent fliers here and there.

Eley club was terrible inside 100yds.., jekyll and Hyde like at 50, it would do well at times and just horrendous at others. Chrony showing speeds right at the cusp of supersonic with an occasional one here and there going full super at muzzle. Tho it does extremely well at 100 and beyond, very very well...I believe it works itself out from 50-100 and stabilizes in the subsonic range beyond that with slightly higher speed to help it out there than say the RM which is well under super at the muzzle.

Haven't tried any tac tho sorry could not feedback on that.

The beauty of rimfire...

Have you ever experimented with reprofiling 22LR? Yesterday I was shooting and put in some Eley Club and it was exactly what you describe. But I have to say some of it shot good and I think it might have been because of the reprofiling I did. The shots were pressed to an over all length of .960". Now look at the second pic. Eley Target which is cheap Club. All the target shots were pressed to 960 but the two top sighter groups the one on the left is 960, the one on the right is 950. Im not too sure that wind wasnt the problem with that second group splitting. Those are 10 shot groups. The 3rd pic is Tac22 just right out of the box. It shot pretty darn good with the exception of a couple flyers. Now the 4th target is Center X. For how it shot and how much it costs, I will shoot Tac22 before I will shoot that. Again, I will try another batch of Center X but this batch isnt going to work. The sighters on the bottom row are the Eley Target rounds I was going to shoot on the next target and I was seasoning the barrel. It shot better than the Center X.

So the bottom line is I just got done pressing some Eley Target and Club to 950, 955, and 960 along with some CCI STD I pressed to 960 and going to see how they shoot on Thursday depending on the weather. Some rain coming in. I am also going to Chrono these rounds because pressing them seemed to make them more consistent from the sound I heard and where they hit. I never thought how they would perform at 100 but maybe I can check that out too but I wont be able to Chrono on 100. I have two reprofilers. One the bullet diameter is .2255" when pressed. The other is .2245". I am experimenting between the two. The Club and Target I shot that day were all .2255"

 

[68hoyt]

What are you using to reprofile ? Picture please
The only thing I have heard of is a Neal waltz sizing die ?

 

[MLone]

What are you using to reprofile ? Picture please
The only thing I have heard of is a Neal waltz sizing die ?

The Neal Waltz is the one that reprofiles them to .2255" diameter. I bought one from a guy in Norway off e-bay that is the same theory but slightly different in that it has a spring loaded sleeve that compresses with the bullet and actually helps with keeping it concentric. If you go to RFC and search reprofiling, does it work. I have pics of both of them. The Norway one is the one that makes them .2245" in diameter. I just found out that difference a few weeks ago and have been playing with them to see which ones certain guns favor. Sometimes less is more, know what I mean? I pulled them up and edited. The one on the top is Norway, bottom is Waltz

 

[68hoyt]

What chamber are you shooting this through ?
Did the cci sv load easier after reprofiling ?

 

[MLone]

What chamber are you shooting this through ?
Did the cci sv load easier after reprofiling ?

Match chamber. Now that is one thing I noticed is they fit more snug. Im taking my LabRadar with me on the next run to get measurements. One thing I can tell you is according to my records, SD's drop drastically when I reprofile. That being said, just because they drop does not necessarily transfer to accuracy. There is also a drop in ES readings with a slight increase in MV readings. Many that have played with this state that high dollar rounds usually dont change much or for the better by reprofiling. The difference I came across is most high dollar rounds are 223.5 to 224.5 diameter slugs. Cheap rounds can go as low as 221. The most accurate, high dollar, rounds are 224.5 in most cases. I am just now starting to use the Norway die and really test it. Many that use these dies concentrate on how many turns of the adjustment and how it effects the accuracy. I started out that way and then switched to Overall Length which is way more of an accurate way to measure for consistency. If you press too big you have problems feeding semi auto guns with Benz chambers and even some standard chambers. Bolts will feed anything pretty much. One thing I will be doing next trip is, you saw the targets with Center X. Well they are shooting like garbage anyway so I reprofiled them to 960 with the Eley flat button tip and 224.5 finished diameter from 223.5 they started with and see if accuracy improves.

This thread isnt about reprofiling so after I do all this I will send you an invite on my findings in private correspondence. Anybody else that wants to follow that part of my thread I will invite too if you want. I have tons of documentation on the Waltz die but none on the Norway die. One thing that stands out on my records of the Waltz die is that from one turn to 2.5 turns is where I get the best numbers for SD's and ES's with an average of 30 percent increase in accuracy with cheap bulk ammo.

 

[68hoyt]

Why don’t you do a thread on the reprofiling /resizing dies and your results , see if anyone else has done it .
It’s hard getting others onboard or to discuss without negativity sometimes
Oh and I agree , we need to stop the derail and go back to the hart barrel discussion

HOW IS THE HART ??????

 

[MLone]

Sorry to hear the weather hasn't been cooperative. Sounds like a solid initial test and outing regardless of the weather.

I would love to see some 5 or 10 shot groups at 50 and 100, but also don't want to have you go out of your way if it's not something you normally do for ammo testing.

The ARA target was shot at 50. I was lot testing ammo which Eley seemed to run best out of the ammo I had. I ordered a sample brick from Whiddon and tested them all. I settled on the 1082 fps Eley Tenex. The 24" seemed to out perform the 26" but it might be something I need to adjust in my shooting habits. The 26 has a Jard trigger, the 24 is a Mr Fly. They both have close to the same pull weight but little nuances of difference. The 100 yd targets are both guns with 5 different velocities of Eley Tenex. Wind was about 4 mph with gusts but compared to other times I was out there it was a good day to shoot. You can see the groupings and the 1072 and 1082 produced the best groupings at 100. They are 5 and 10 shot groups. I chose the 1082 for 3 reasons. Right now I cant afford both and both guns liked the same ones and the 1082 out performed all of them on the 50yd by a noticeable amount. The 1072 clearly was tighter at 100 but not as good at 50. I dont intend to bench either of these guns and shoot off a bipod and a rear bag or no bag. For me to say that these are the best I cant because I have never ammo tested any of my others but I will say that these are the most fun to shoot. I can also say that there were 308's and 223's out there shooting the 100 and they all commented on what a tack driver these guns were and better groups than they were. Im done testing so this experiment is coming to an end. I'm happy with the results and think Hart builds some really good barrels. They are great to do business with and their attention to detail is awesome. I recommend them.