I have a couple kimber and cooper 22lr, they all shoot great but I would like to have them threaded for my suppresor. Is there any downside to having that done? I’ve heard it will destroy the accuracy.
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Having a barrel threaded for a suppressor.
- Thread starter Pre64
- Start date
It can be detrimental to accuracy but as with many things its not written in stone.
If you have a specific reason for needing suppression, do one, if it's just because I got this cool new can and I want to thread everything, still do one, I would hold off on doing all at once.
If one of them is a lights out shooter, I wouldn't touch it.
Do some searching through these threads and you will see many opinions on threading rimfire barrels.
If you have a specific reason for needing suppression, do one, if it's just because I got this cool new can and I want to thread everything, still do one, I would hold off on doing all at once.
If one of them is a lights out shooter, I wouldn't touch it.
Do some searching through these threads and you will see many opinions on threading rimfire barrels.
It can (and usually will) open the bore a few ten thousandths under the threads. This is the most critical spot for a rimfire. How much will it effect the accuracy is really dependent on how accurate it was before. If it was an extremely accurate barrel before you will likely see either a general reduction in accuracy or more likely unexplained flyers. If it was just fairly accurate before you may not see any real change.
You will hear people say that it will not effect accuracy but it absolutely can.
You will hear people say that it will not effect accuracy but it absolutely can.
Saying it will destroy accuracy is an extreme statement, but it sure won't help. If you're trying to milk every ounce of accuracy from a barrel I wouldn't thread but since you want to shoot suppressed I doubt you're concerned with that level of accuracy as anything you hang on a barrel will effect point of aim and accuracy most of the time in a negative way. With the exception of a tuner.
If it's done properly, it won't affect accuracy at all. Have a professional do it. There are some companies now that do it on a 6-axis CNC where everything is as straight as possible.
Anytime you thread a barrel or add a muzzle device you run the chance of changing accuracy. Think of the barrel as a tuning fork. Less weight/more weight, length etc can effect it. Plenty of rimfire threads here where cans negatively effected accuracy.
I say go for it. But if I had a tack driver that was winning matches I wouldn’t take the chance
I say go for it. But if I had a tack driver that was winning matches I wouldn’t take the chance
From my sample size of a few I haven't seen a drop in accuracy. In fact, I had a Lilja barrel chopped and threaded for a can. Just as accurate as it was before (talking <=3/8" @ 50yards).
Like just about anything barrel related it can affect accuracy. Now if I was searching for the absolute in accuracy I wouldn't thread the barrel.
Like just about anything barrel related it can affect accuracy. Now if I was searching for the absolute in accuracy I wouldn't thread the barrel.
Yes. Adding my TBAC ultra 9 has only improved accuracy for my guns. Be it controlling muzzle gas, flinch etc etc whatever argument one wants to make. I’ve seen better results. But we’re talking match grade guns and heavy barrels. If the gun shoots 1 moa or worse I say most won’t notice a difference
On the barrels I have threaded my smith recrowns the rifle at the same time.
There's really no way to predict your outcome.
It can get pretty simple though. Do you want to run a can or not? Yes or No.....
You can always buy a new barrel blank or even re-thread again it if it falls apart.
Hedge your bet by getting the best, most reputable smith you can to do the job.
It can get pretty simple though. Do you want to run a can or not? Yes or No.....
You can always buy a new barrel blank or even re-thread again it if it falls apart.
Hedge your bet by getting the best, most reputable smith you can to do the job.
Adding a suppressor, or any weight on the muzzle (or anywhere on the barrel) is what effects harmonics, so I suppose one could say that removing a few grams from the muzzle area by threading can effect harmonics. However that is not the main reason threading a rimfire barrel can effect accuracy.
Threading a barrel can (and usually will) open the bore a few ten thousandths under the threads. This has nothing to do with harmonics. These soft rimfire bullets are being sledged down to bore diameter for the length of the bore but at the threads the bore opens up ever so slightly which creates internal ballistics instability. Basically the bullet is no longer being controlled properly & gases can escape around the bullet creating a bullet that is not optimally stabilized. Measure your bore diameter before and after threading with some precision grounds pin gauges and you will see the difference. If a barrel manufacturer would thread the muzzle then bring the bore to final dimension after there should be no ill effects on the bullet. Or better yet if rimfire suppressors used larger threads, say M18 or 3/4”.
I hear a lot of people comparing centerfire with rimfire as far as threading, it just is the same.
IMO the bigger the better
Thanks for all the replies, I think I’ll try the kimber 1st. It shoot good but not as good as my cooper. I have a Vudoo and a anshutz that I shoot when I’m looking for the smallest groups possible. I’ve found myself rarely shooting anything not suppressed anymore, Im trying to protect what little hearing I have left and I don’t enjoy wearing hearing protection while hunting. Thanks again. I’ll post some before and after pictures of group size when I get it back.
Anschutz NA counter bores their threaded barrels. I do know of a few where the counter bore caused some accuracy issues / inconsistency. Again these rimfire bullets are very sensitive and that includes the precursor gases. Maybe a well designed suppressor will help by getting the gasses stable before the bullet gets there.
But the best experience is to test it yourself. If you have the barrel length to play with thread it, if it doesn't shoot then counter bores it, if that doesn't help cut it off and crown it. You may lose an inch maybe a little more.
Fair warning, I tried to go 3/4-24” and couldn’t find a good way to adapt my 1/2”-28 rimfire can to the barrel without stacking adapters. Nobody makes them that I can tell; Vudoo’s speculation was that nobody wanted to make an adapter that would let someone put a 22-cal can on a large-bore caliber (the ones that are typically threaded 3/4”).
They convinced me to just go 1/2-28”, I can’t tell you if it’s more or less accurate than it would’ve been cause it’s only ever been threaded. Opinions vary widely, the safest bet is to not thread but I love shooting suppressed so…
To the earlier question: the reason threading can hurt accuracy (as was mentioned in this thread) is that it can open up the bore where the OD is smallest, typically at the relief cut just behind the threads. This is so close to the muzzle that any disturbances in the spin or engraving don’t really have much opportunity to “smooth out” and so you can have accuracy issues. The extent to which this happens depends on various things, including stresses in the steel.
As has also been mentioned, hanging a can on the end will also change harmonics. Without a tuner, this can help, hurt, or do nothing. It will, however, make the barrel easier to tune using a tuner.
There’s a lot going on here, most of it speculative, and shooting subs suppressed is a joy. Have at it.
They convinced me to just go 1/2-28”, I can’t tell you if it’s more or less accurate than it would’ve been cause it’s only ever been threaded. Opinions vary widely, the safest bet is to not thread but I love shooting suppressed so…
To the earlier question: the reason threading can hurt accuracy (as was mentioned in this thread) is that it can open up the bore where the OD is smallest, typically at the relief cut just behind the threads. This is so close to the muzzle that any disturbances in the spin or engraving don’t really have much opportunity to “smooth out” and so you can have accuracy issues. The extent to which this happens depends on various things, including stresses in the steel.
As has also been mentioned, hanging a can on the end will also change harmonics. Without a tuner, this can help, hurt, or do nothing. It will, however, make the barrel easier to tune using a tuner.
There’s a lot going on here, most of it speculative, and shooting subs suppressed is a joy. Have at it.
Have heard of threading causing the barrel to "bell" out as others have pointed too. But also read that if there is enough meat on the barrel, i.e. really thick barrel, the belling is going to minimized.
For me the benefit of shooting suppressed outweighs the potential loss in accuracy (within reason). What would really piss me off is the flyers that Jbell says might be a side effect of threading.
For me the benefit of shooting suppressed outweighs the potential loss in accuracy (within reason). What would really piss me off is the flyers that Jbell says might be a side effect of threading.
Well playedI only have centerfires threaded for my suppressor's and they are all lights out accurate. Now that I think about it, it must just be that I am just that good, yeah, that is probably it.
My understanding is that a quality barrel blank that's been bored out and rifled with quality equipment and processes, and with the muzzle end threaded with quality equipment and processes, that this isn't a concern.
What I find bizarre is that people claim that threading will bell/flare out the muzzle and degrade accuracy, but do it anyways to add a tuner. Those two actions seem to be at odds with each other.
What I find bizarre is that people claim that threading will bell/flare out the muzzle and degrade accuracy, but do it anyways to add a tuner. Those two actions seem to be at odds with each other.
I think tuners are bullshit. Especially since Erik Cortina pimps them so hard. He's a joke. I used to have to deal with his BS over on LRH. He's one of those "only full-length size your brass" pushers.
When fact is, neck-sizing belted cases is actually significantly better for the brass longevity and can improve accuracy.
I only started doing my own 22RF bbl work in 2016, but have used nothing but best quality match grade barrels - Bartlein, Benchmark, Krieger, Lilja, and Shilen ratchet. Contrary to what I've experienced putting suppressors on my CF barrels, using one on 22RF barrels has opened groups in several instances. However, in the case of threading cut-rifled barrels (Bartlein & Krieger), while groups open up with a suppressor mounted, they go back to normal, tighter groups if the suppressor is removed. To me, that gives a lot of credibility to the opinion that the suppressor is having a negative effect on accuracy simply because of the way it's affecting the bbl's harmonics.
I feel that threading a button rifled barrel is more likely to have a permanent negative effect on accuracy simply because of the stresses created in the bbl steel by pulling a carbide 'button' through the bore, which 'irons' the rifling into it, and that cutting away a good deal of the outer diameter of the barrel to thread will allow that residual stress to expand the bore diameter a bit. When/if that happens, and to what degree it happens, it's far more likely that it's going to have a negative effect on accuracy than a positive effect, and it will be permanent, whether the suppressor is attached or not. I used a couple of Shilen ratchet blanks on CZ457s when I had accuracy issues with their OEM bbls, but threaded both Shilens before ever firing them, so can't comment on whether or how much threading might have affected their accuracy potential. Only way to find out if they'd shoot better if not threaded would be to cut off the threaded portion and re-crown, and I'm not curious enough to go through that process.
I feel that threading a button rifled barrel is more likely to have a permanent negative effect on accuracy simply because of the stresses created in the bbl steel by pulling a carbide 'button' through the bore, which 'irons' the rifling into it, and that cutting away a good deal of the outer diameter of the barrel to thread will allow that residual stress to expand the bore diameter a bit. When/if that happens, and to what degree it happens, it's far more likely that it's going to have a negative effect on accuracy than a positive effect, and it will be permanent, whether the suppressor is attached or not. I used a couple of Shilen ratchet blanks on CZ457s when I had accuracy issues with their OEM bbls, but threaded both Shilens before ever firing them, so can't comment on whether or how much threading might have affected their accuracy potential. Only way to find out if they'd shoot better if not threaded would be to cut off the threaded portion and re-crown, and I'm not curious enough to go through that process.
I think tuners are bullshit. Especially since Erik Cortina pimps them so hard. He's a joke. I used to have to deal with his BS over on LRH. He's one of those "only full-length size your brass" pushers.
I'm personally not a tuner fan.
That said, I've never tested a tuner for myself on a rimfire. Lot's swear by it, and there's some nuances that exist with rimfire that don't exist in the centerfire world. I plan on getting a precision rimfire setup soon (once my .300NM sells), at that point I may test it.
I just find it curious how people swear that threading a muzzle will flare/bell it out and degrade precision (true in some cases, not all), and therefore would never run a suppressor on their precision rimfire rifle. But the same people will thread their barrels to run a tuner. The logic seems inconsistent.
The tuners I'm using (Pro-X & Harrells) don't require threads - they're bored to slip over the muzzle. That's why I haven't even bothered to thread the last several 22RF barrels I've done for a Vudoo Three-60 and a couple of V22S single shots. Now if I really wanted to run suppressed with any of my V22 repeaters, I'd go with an ATS, and then tune it to compensate for the 'negative vibes' my suppressor seems so good at producing. But at $200 a pop, it just doesn't seem worth it, since hanging a suppressor off the end of a 22" bbl just makes it a little less easy to maneuver around or through barricades. Honestly, I'm just too cheap to buy one or more ATS tuners, since I've already spent so #!@%* much money on 22s...
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