Rifle Scopes HDMR Tracking issues?

[0311@LAR]

Finally got to hit the range today after mounting up my new HDMR. Zeroed the scope, then shot steel from 234-1000 yards. Ran the turrets up and down pretty much all day for the different ranges. Things seemed to be going well, my DOPE pretty much matched up from my previous scope (Vortex PST) at the different yard lines. At the end of the day I decided to go back to 100 yards to confirm it returned to zero. well, 3 groups later, and everyone of them was consistently 1 MOA low from where I zeroed earlier in the morning.

Now, am I being unreasonable in thinking that a shift of 1 MOA is unacceptable? I zeroed the rifle in 4 rounds, (messed up and went the wrong way with one round) so the rifle wasn't exactly hot, and when I fired the groups at the end of the day the rifle wasn't exactly cool either, could this possibly have caused the shift? Should I have waited for my rifle to cool down some before I checked for RTZ? Any suggestions? Anyone else with HDMR tracking issues?

Please don't take this as a bash against the HDMR, because I really , really want to like this scope and keep it. But I also want to be able to trust it. So, whats the consensus? Did I get a lemon scope? Try another one? Run more tracking tests?
I am not super concerned, as Bushnell has their bulletproof guarantee right now, basically I can get my money back if it comes down to that.

Thanks
Dustin

 

[rideHPD]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

What was the lighting like during the different 100 yrd groups? When my light comes from 9 oclock and behind the target to about 9 and in front I see about 1 moa drop across the board. I was told by others in a match at my range that this is because of an optical illusion from the lighting. Haven't read the physics myself to explain why but ill take their word for it when theyre shooting 440s 18x in f class. This occurs from 8-9 am to about noonish, when the light becomes more direct and its effects are more consistent. Believe the bullet, try it again, try it in the am, then come back in the pm and dial up 1 moa, see if its all the same.

 

[steve123]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

The newly mounted scope might just be settling in or a few other things happening.

Next time out try...

Checking for parallax error before you start shooting. Sometimes the image can be clear with good resolution but the parallax is off.

Check your zero with a couple 5 shot groups just to make sure the zero is centered, adjust the zero if needed, then see if the same 1 moa low occurs.

Post the results. I'm curious to know what happened.

 

[0311@LAR]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

The lighting was definately different between being zeroed and the end of the day. Was zeroed about 9 A.M, final groups of the day fired around 3 P.M. Sun was to my back in the A.M and almost above the target in the afternoon.

I did check for parallax error before firing both times, but was fighting mirage in the afternoon, so im sure that didn't help my cause any. Guess I never even considered the possibility of the scope "settling in," but it does make sense. Initially when I zeroed, I only fired 4 rounds, the 4th hitting the edge of a .25 minute diamond on the target , and I called it good. In retrospect, probably should have finished firing a group there to indeed see if the "zero" was actually centered. Wont get to shoot it again till next weekend. hopefully get it all situated. Thanks fellas!

Dustin

 

[mdesign]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

+1 on what Steve said....my shooting friends both have PST and HDMR so very interested in what you learn.

Sometimes I would shoot my zero group and then run out to 600 and 1000 and then come back to zero right away so the conditions and lighting stay the "same".

 

[Topstrap]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

We're going to try and get out there Wednesday or Thursday if you want to give it another go. We've not run into the light thing out there other than not being able to see the 990/1000 yard target due to the sun shining or not on them back in the woods.

Not sure what your work schedule is but if you want to go out again and test some more be glad to have you join in. We also have 200 yards here in our side yard if you want to recheck it or work with it some more. Any evening would be fine and we're just out here by Jamboreee.

Topstrap

 

[264Charlie]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

I know weird things can happen with lighting and the likes. Last weekend at the PRS match in TN when we move to the 100 yard line the whole line was .2 Mils right. Odd to see a whole line have the same issue.


Anyway, All of Team GA Precision is running DMRs with no shifts or tracking issues. This is after plane flights across the US every month. I'm currently running three of them and we have over 12 total on team rifles with zero issues.

A lot can cause a POI shift, For one not having a proper zero to start with. I would run a few more test. Get a good zero first. What I do is put 1/2" dots on a pc of paper.

I shoot one dot (holding center), get up, move the rifle, change the bipod, then shoot the second, and repeat for five dots. If I did not clean the drill and all misses are in the same relative position to the dot I adjust and repeat the drill. If they are left/right or up/down I know I need to practice before I have a solid zero.

Once I clean 5 dots, getting up, moving the rifle between shots and holding the center I'll start my tracking test. You need to remove environment from a tracking test. Best is to get a pc of paper at 100 that is 15 mils tall. Mark out dots every five mils up to 15, fire a few round at each dot along the way up and down from 15 mils.

If your scope does not track send it back, Bushy will take care of you. Take great care in your breathing and make sure your scope is level during the tests.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

Dustin, just happened to think about it. Were you shooting prone around the course and then using those benches at the 200 yard sighting in range to check your zero? Those benches are a lot lower than the ones scattered around the course and are a lot harder to get comfortable on. Just a thought.

Topstrap

 

[0311@LAR]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

Dennis, I might just take you up on your offer about using your 200 yard range this weeke one night after work. I would like to get a good zero before this coming weekends match. Wednesday or Thursday would be a no go for me during the week because of work, but I could sneak out one evening a little early to stop by. I'll load up some ammo! Also, no, I shot prone all day, from morning, till afternoon, simply because thats how i shoot the match.

264 Charlie, thank you for your advice! I will have to try the dot drill you are talking about. After much thought, I'm hoping that I just didn't have a good zero to begin with. Because even after all that adjusting up and down all day, my groups never opened up one bit, just roughly 1 minute low at the end of the day. I knew a lot of guys are running this scope now and really liking it, to include team GAP. Thats another reason I was preplexed, as much praise as these scopes recieve, I would have a hard time believing they would have tracking issues.
Hopefully this whole debacle is just my bootness at precision shooting!

Dustin

 

[264Charlie]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 0311@lar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dennis, I might just take you up on your offer about using your 200 yard range this weeke one night after work. I would like to get a good zero before this coming weekends match. Wednesday or Thursday would be a no go for me during the week because of work, but I could sneak out one evening a little early to stop by. I'll load up some ammo! Also, no, I shot prone all day, from morning, till afternoon, simply because thats how i shoot the match.

264 Charlie, thank you for your advice! I will have to try the dot drill you are talking about. After much thought, I'm hoping that I just didn't have a good zero to begin with. Because even after all that adjusting up and down all day, my groups never opened up one bit, just roughly 1 minute low at the end of the day. I knew a lot of guys are running this scope now and really liking it, to include team GAP. Thats another reason I was preplexed, as much praise as these scopes recieve, I would have a hard time believing they would have tracking issues.
Hopefully this whole debacle is just my bootness at precision shooting!

Dustin </div></div>

Hope it all works out. Worst case, you have a bad scope I know Busy will help you out. If anything I've learned in shooting everything can have issues.

 

[gbernardski]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

Great thread,
I was initially interested because of the HDMR, I'd like to pick one up i've got the 6500 and like it. So I was thinking the HDMR would be a great scope! I'll be interested to see how your next outing goes!

Also,
Great info on potential environmental factors, vs potential hardware issues. Next time I check my tracking I'll keep those in mind.

 

[khw9mm]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

Tag

 

[0311@LAR]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

Finally got to shoot a little more this evening and run the scope through some more tracking tests, thanks to Topstrap and Chris. Well, its weird but the scope was dead on. Tracked perfectly, they had a target set up that was leveled and had mil marks measured out. Tracked perfect, then returned to zero perfectly as well. Even put a round through a 2 inch hole in a steel plate at 200 yards. So, I have no clue what the deal was last weekend, other than shooter error obviously! Maybe the lighting thing? Anyway, it makes me have confidence in the scope and removes any doubt about trusting it. Glad it worked out this way, although now I wont have an excuse for shooting like crap in this weekends match! Thanks again to everyone for the advice and Topstrap and Chris for the help tonight.

 

[Topstrap]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

Nice to have you stop by, had fun chatting and watching you shoot. Ya got a good shooter there, I see that 300 coming maybe this weekend.

Was also impressed, you mounted that scope nuts on. Tracked perfectly thru 8mil of travel, didn't vary by more than half a bullet either direction all the way up the line.

You put that round thru that hole in the 200 yard target that was slightly bigger than 1" so that makes it even better. Hope to see ya on Sunday and maybe even on our squad.

You're welcome here anytime you need to check something on your gun. Wish we had more than 200 yards but it's handy having it beside the house to shoot, it's better than nothing and works for getting zeros checked.

Topstrap

 

[dwt]

Re: HDMR Tracking issues?

Now that's the kind of help I like to hear about,instead of all this internet BS we read about daily.