Hearing Damage with Hearing Protection?

[LRRPF52]

Another problem I have personally felt that doesn't get discussed much at all is the overpressure effects on your eyes. Good to see the mastoid bone mentioned above.

I have tinnitus pretty bad as well. When I put my good ear down on the pillow, I can still hear sounds in it where the left side knows there is a noise impulse being detected with others means and what's left of the left ear, but has formed different neuro connections with the right ear to validate the sound as a compensatory mechanism. It sounds like clicking, which is annoying as hell. My little boy has one of those poppers too, which is especially fun.

 

[treillw]

Custom molded ear plugs with or without cutoff circuits PLUS a decent gel cupped ear def like the MSA Sordin. Even then prolonged exposure will through bone transmission lead to hearing loss.

What is the advantage to the gel cups? Only comfort?

 

[treillw]

The Peltor tactical sport has better NRR ratings published than the Sordins. Thoughts?

 

[LawnMM]

The Peltor tactical sport has better NRR ratings published than the Sordins. Thoughts?

Did you read any of this thread?

 

[Nooch13]

Like many others, I was young and dumb. I was a 60 gunner and have real bad tinnitus and high frequency loss...some real good info on this thread

 

[treillw]

Did you read any of this thread?

I read it multiple times actually. What exactly is your point?

 

[LawnMM]

I read it multiple times actually. What exactly is your point?

That your reading comprehension needs work

https://www.google.com/amp/s/trevoro...db-rating/amp/

The sordins have excellent sound reduction at gunfire frequencies, but you read that link multiple times, right?

You're asking the same questions, repeatedly

 

[treillw]

That your reading comprehension needs work



The sordins have excellent sound reduction at gunfire frequencies, but you read that link multiple times, right?

You're asking the same questions, repeatedly

You're the one that needs reading comprehension work. Along with some spelling lessons, grammar lessons, and manners.

If you read and comprehended what I said, the Peltors have a higher published NRR (or attenuation) at ALL frequencies compared to the published Sordin data. Asking if anybody has experience with them is a perfectly legitimate question. If you read everything, you will also see that I never once mentioned that the Sordins have a low overall advertised NRR - other people did that.

Nobody is forcing you to read this. If you don't like it, go read something else.

 

[farrdg]

LawnMM writes a good piece. You won't be disappointed with Sordins and ear plugs (Electronic, custom fit, or foam) Find the combination that works best for you. Gel cups provide a better seal, especially with glasses. The extra foam insert that comes with them adds additional sound proofing for additional protection. The cost is minor in comparison to hearing loss. Once it's gone, you never get it back.

 

[LawnMM]

You're the one that needs reading comprehension work. Along with some spelling lessons, grammar lessons, and manners.

If you read and comprehended what I said, the Peltors have a higher published NRR (or attenuation) at ALL frequencies compared to the published Sordin data. Asking if anybody has experience with them is a perfectly legitimate question. If you read everything, you will also see that I never once mentioned that the Sordins have a low overall advertised NRR - other people did that.

Nobody is forcing you to read this. If you don't like it, go read something else.

You're right, I'm wasting my time...you found some NRR numbers on the internet. Clearly you have a good handle on this. Good luck!

 

[aam]

Thanks for the post aam. The information in this post confuses me. The guy seemingly knows what he is talking about, but I believe he says that it's not worth it to double up - that goes against pretty much what everybody else is saying to do. Am I missing something here?

My thoughts are that he says the best thing is a "yellow foamy". So if you take a yellow foamy and slap a pair of muffs on over top of that, it has to add at least some decibel reduction.

I still haven't purchased any muffs. I'm debating whether I should go with the Sordins, $125 Peltor Sporttacs, or the GSP-15s that Norm talks about. I wish that there was clearly a product that is the best, there were no opinions, and this was an easy decision! haha

I re-read the post, I know what you mean, and it can be confusing.

When he mentioned doubling up he was referring to wearing the GSP-15 and electronic muffs together.

GSP-15's plus electronic ear muffs, not really a benefit as the properly inserted GSP-15 offers close to 40 dB of attenuation. That plus the 26dB or so from the muffs totals 55 dB or so, but your pesky mastoid bone screws up the works by paralleling the 55 dB from muff and GSP with 40 or so for a total of still around 40 dB attenuation.
All you need is the properly inserted GSP and you are there at approx. 38 dB

There are two other things you can do. What Norm mentioned and what Longranger had in the post.

One, would be to just wear the GSP-15 which would give very good protection.

Two, cheaper alternative and again with good protection, and what other Hide members mentioned would be foam inserts and muffs.

As an example, I knew the cylindrical foam plug had the best attenuation and long term comfort, but they get all grotty from ear wax and are almost un-cleanable

Another option to foam plugs would be to buy ER-20/ETY ear plugs. At least you can clean them, and then wear the muffs on top.

 

[treillw]

You're right, I'm wasting my time...you found some NRR numbers on the internet. Clearly you have a good handle on this. Good luck!

I found NRR numbers in the Peltor users manual - which I believe is the same place the Sordin numbers came from. Clearly I do not have a good handle on this - that's why I'm openly asking for advice and experience from others. If you want to give valuable evidence as to why the Sordins are better, I would love to hear it. If you're going to be a dingus, buzz off. I have nothing against the Sordins and will pay for them if they are worth it, I'm just trying to spend my money wisely.

 

[Triad]

What is the advantage to the gel cups? Only comfort?

They provide a better seal against your head, glasses, hat etc. The softer material will better fill in any gaps, blocking more sound out.

 

[pmclaine]

Reading this is like a horror list of ear tradgedy.

I forgot to put plugs in before firing a Dragon wireguided AT missile.

I think I passed out and crashed it into the dirt at its absolute minimum arming distance.

Plugs to stop sound travelling down the canal. Muffs to back that up and help keep your bone structure from transmitting sound.

 

[treillw]

They provide a better seal against your head, glasses, hat etc. The softer material will better fill in any gaps, blocking more sound out.

Thank you. I believe I read where you say that MSA won't warranty "grey market products". What is their warranty policy on authorized products?

 

[lash]

I always use these 3M Skull Screws:

http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...0-EA-Case?N=5002385+8709322+3294780177&rt=rud

Plus muffs.

The Skull Screws are 32 dB rated and with the muffs I can expect to get the maximum protection of the 40 dB, which I guess is the highest you can actually get due to bone transmission.
They are the most comfortable plugs for me and are easy to install and remove.

But I still like to shoot my rifle with the suppressor on it the most. I'll eventually get more suppressors.

 

[TripleBull]

Muffs to back that up and help keep your bone structure from transmitting sound.

It's virtually impossible to keep your bone structure out of the loop. Your femur couples well to low frequency sound and it rattles the whole cage. You don't really "hear" sound below about 50 cycles, you feel it. Gunfire has a strong pulse that goes from near DC on up past the midrange.

 

[pmclaine]

Many people would benefit much from a tutorial on properly inserting soft plugs.

I see a lot of people at the range not forming them up and using a second hand to open the ear canal.

They just kind of shove em in the opening and hope for a good seal.

 

[lash]

The Skull Screws can simply be inserted by screwing them in. I kid you not. Try them out sometime.

 

[treillw]

Many people would benefit much from a tutorial on properly inserting soft plugs.

I see a lot of people at the range not forming them up and using a second hand to open the ear canal.

They just kind of shove em in the opening and hope for a good seal.

Video at bottom of page:
http://www.howardleight.com/earplugs/max

 

[TripleBull]

Many people would benefit much from a tutorial on properly inserting soft plugs.

I see a lot of people at the range not forming them up and using a second hand to open the ear canal.

They just kind of shove em in the opening and hope for a good seal.

For sure. I've worked front of house quite a bit on some loud stages. You learn or you burn.

 

[earthquake]

It's virtually impossible to keep your bone structure out of the loop. Your femur couples well to low frequency sound and it rattles the whole cage. You don't really "hear" sound below about 50 cycles, you feel it. Gunfire has a strong pulse that goes from near DC on up past the midrange.

Yep. The fallacy that muff prevent bone induction is strong in the industry. You'd have to somehow put a muff around your entire skull bone...or wear a motorcycle helmet.

The GSP's when fitted properly with the gray foam tips approach 40-dB reduction and sound great! No weight, no sweat, no interference​ with the buttstock.
JADE2017 code will save you 15% over on Etymotic's website on the GSP and EB15LE. (Same thing)

http://www.etymotic.com/consumer/hearing-protection/

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[spife7980]

It boils down to: some is better than nothing but more can only help.

I dont care how much noise my skull carries, taking off a layer of protection can only be the opposite of helping.

 

[pmclaine]

Yep. The fallacy that muff prevent bone induction is strong in the industry. You'd have to somehow put a muff around your entire skull bone...or wear a motorcycle helmet.

The GSP's when fitted properly with the gray foam tips approach 40-dB reduction and sound great! No weight, no sweat, no interference​ with the buttstock.
JADE2017 code will save you 15% over on Etymotic's website on the GSP and EB15LE. (Same thing)

http://www.etymotic.com/consumer/hearing-protection/

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

Huh.....I heard the myth and considered all the connections between ears and nasal/oral passages and figured "Meh, compression of muffs on bone might help".

I'm not worried so much about concussion in my thigh bone as there is enough fat between thigh and ear canal to dampen those vibrations but muffs on the head I assumed to help to save some cilia. Suppose they would help more by my thinking if I wore them front to back vs side to side in conjunction with plugs.

Ill continue to plug and muff with pistols but with the rifle I just plug because muffs tend to interfere for me.

 

[treillw]

Did anybody ever try these Soundgear plugs?

https://www.soundgearhearing.com/co...ducts/hearing-protection-for-hunters-shooters

I purchased a set of them to use for hunting and I wasn't too impressed. I had them in for two encounters elk hunting this fall. First time I jumped a bedded cow as I was walking through the timber. I had the plugs in and when she jumped up she broke a stick. I heard the stick break much louder than I would have just with my plain ears, but it was hard to locate the sound. I felt like I was in a video game as I walked around with these modified sounds. For my second encounter I was sitting watching some parks and heard cows calling. I either put the plugs in after hearing the cows, or was getting bored and started to mess with them when I heard the elk. I started to look around me and couldn't figure out where the sound was coming from exactly. After 2 or 3 minutes of messing around trying to find them, I pulled the plugs, heard where the elk were, and shot a bull with no hearing protection! Good thing the rifle didn't have a break on it.

A few weeks later I took the plugs to the range with me and my breaked 300 win mag. I shot one shot with the plugs in and my ears rang for 10 seconds and then it stopped. After that shot I took the plugs out and put foam ones in. The sound gear definitely didn't reduce the shot volume to something I felt comfortable with and I was hesitant to fire a second shot to test them out again.

One thing that is good about them is that they seem to be my lucky charm. Both times during the day when I was messing with them, I came across elk.

 

[JustBC]

I meant to follow up on this awhile ago. I bought the Sordin Supreme Pro-x with gel ear cups. I cried hard untilI went to the range. I shot outdoors with the Sordins and foam earplugs. I noticed a real difference. At first I didn't think they were on right. They are really light and comfortable. After a full day wearing Peltors my ears would hurt like hell. The Sordins are way more comfortable. I am not trying to trash Peltor. they make a good product but the Sordins are on a different level. I could also hear background sounds a bit better. That helps when shooting steel with 22LR. I still need to try them at an indoor range. I will post when I do. LawnMM I owe you a top shelf beverage.

 

[allisit]

Insta-mold -32 db with or without pop-stoppers if shooting suppressed. If on a line with others shooting same time double up with Sordins. Been using them for 30 plus years. Damaged my hearing working construction, shooting a Hilti in an elevator shaft. Hearing protection wasn't around then like now.


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