Hearing protection?

[kmose73]

Tried the search w/ no results. Am looking at getting some electronic hearing protection. Am I right in thinking that they protect against muzzle blast but allow lesser noise (such as ringing steel)? Any feedback from those who have used some, what you did and didn't like, would be greatly appreciated!

 

[NOMAD]

ESP - Electronic Shooters Protection

By the far the best ear protection you can buy on the market. I have been using them for a few years now and I wont ever use anything else.

I wear mine 6-8 hours a day 5-7 days a week.

They are comfortable and work.

 

[bdubb]

Nomad, which ones do you have? The $2,000 each digital or one of the more affordable options?

 

[NOMAD]

I use the Stealths. The HD quality is awesome. I can hear people talking 100 yards away. Think the pair runs you $2300

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Although the ESP is a very nice product, it is a bit more than alot of people will ever spend. On a more budget friendly option, take a look at the Howard Leight Impact Sports. I've had a pair for 3yrs now. I wear them alot both shooting in matches and hunting. When the volume is turned up, they amplify sound very well and will allow you to hear things in the woods long before you would have ever heard it with your ear alone. They are a great product for the price. My only complaint with them is after wearing them for 8-10 hours a day at a match, they do start to make your ears a bit sore.

 

[kmose73]

Thanks guys! I'll take a look. I was hoping for something more budget minded, but didn't want to say anything for fear of Nomad calling me a cheap bastard

 

[gunshinestate]

+1 to the HL Impact Sports. Definitely on the *budget side of things when it comes to electronic ear protection...but I am really happy with mine.
I'd say it couldnt hurt too much to try something like these or the Peltors out.

 

[Here2Learn]

If you want "in ear" check out hear pro. HEAR-PRO | Custom Sound Management. Every bit as good as ESPs but not as expensive. Check out the amp-37 (electronic) and pro-37 (passive). The pro-37 are very affordable and I can still hear hits on steel at 700 yds. PM me and I can hook you up with a code for a discount too

 

[jvencius]

I finally sprung for a set of behind-the-head (regular over-the-head earpro wouldnt fit my planetoid-sized noggin) TCI DEHP's with gel ear seals about 1 1/2 years ago and when I got to using them, all I could think was "why the hell did I wait so long?" They're verrrry comfortable, block enough sound to work well by themselves outside, and by all reports they're better-made/sealed than less-expensive brands of electronic earpro. When I'm shooting indoors I still use yellow foamies but all I have to do is turn the amplification up a little and I'm able to hear RO instructions just fine.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

MSA Sordins. Check them out. I'd say they are mid range ear pro. I used Peltors while in the service. I now use MSA Sordins for all my range work. They work great, very robust and comfortable.

 

[TNT]

I prefer the Sordins with gel cups and wear foam ear plugs underneath. Get plenty of protection and can still hear anything I would want while shooting. My only concern with the electronic ear buds discussed above is the peak noise reduction. Can these really have enough dB reduction for the times when that guy just has to rent the .357 magnum and blast away right next to you at an indoor range, or when the guy with a .50 w/ a brake is shooting next to you under an awning?

 

[GunMax]

Has anyone used the Surefire ones?
EarPro EP3 Sonic Defenders® Earplugs from SureFire
It sounds too good to be true and probably is. I just want to know if anyone has used them before?

 

[EddieP]

I prefer the Sordins with gel cups and wear foam ear plugs underneath. Get plenty of protection and can still hear anything I would want while shooting. My only concern with the electronic ear buds discussed above is the peak noise reduction. Can these really have enough dB reduction for the times when that guy just has to rent the .357 magnum and blast away right next to you at an indoor range, or when the guy with a .50 w/ a brake is shooting next to you under an awning?

I'm sure if you look at the testing they don't take bone conduction / non ear canal transmission into account. So yes and no.

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[pmclaine]

Has anyone used the Surefire ones?
EarPro EP3 Sonic Defenders® Earplugs from SureFire
It sounds too good to be true and probably is. I just want to know if anyone has used them before?

These are the rubber in the ear units right?

I have a set. They work good enough. If Im shooting pistol, or a rifle that the stock allows muffs, Ill double up.

I shoot my PRS stocked .308 and SopMod stocked 5.56 with just the Surefires and I dont get pain/ringing and I can hear hits on steel.

I dont think they work any worse/better than any other in ear plug. Disposable foam are said to be the best when installed correctly. I wont seek out Surefires when I need to replace mine but Ill buy them again if priced right.

I understand there are two ways noise is transmitted through the ear canal and through bone. Ear plugs take care of the canal. Muffs do a good job protecting bone concussion. Double up as much as possible. I can still hear hits on steel doubled. Everything is just as you want muffled.

 

[EddieP]

I've found the best is foam plugs with electronic muffs turned up loud.

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[Centuriator]

Best ear pro I've used are the Gold Pro tacticals. They provide the highest level of hearing protection and the fastest response times on muting harmful audio levels and provide the best enhanced hearing. I've lost enough hearing that I can not afford to go cheap.

Pro Ears Pro Tac SC Gold NRR 25 Hearing Protectors FREE S&H GS-PTSTL-L Black, GS-PTSTL-L Green, GS-PTSTL Black, GS-PTSTL Green. Pro-Ears Hearing Protection.

 

[shoot4fun]

Thanks guys! I'll take a look. I was hoping for something more budget minded, but didn't want to say anything for fear of Nomad calling me a cheap bastard

At least you would be able to hear him when he did.
I wore "cheap" ear protection. Don't think I saved a dime in the end because the hearing aids cost me $6000.

 

[Centuriator]

Don't think I saved a dime in the end because the hearing aids cost me $6000.

This. Some people are just too stupid to understand what is like suffering from hearing loss and the need to wear hearing aids.

But they can't say we didn't warn them.

For the record, my hearing loss came as a result of multiple several ear infections as a child, which I finally paid for when I was in my early forties. I was wearing aids already then.

 

[1911fan]

I've found the best is foam plugs with electronic muffs turned up loud.

What he said. This is my usual range wear. Provides very good protection, and if someone does crank one off while your electronics are on the bench, you're still protected.
While you're shopping, look at the passive NRR ratings, not just the cutoff Db rating. Auto shut-off is a nice feature, as are readily available batteries. My old Wolf Ears are great, but take N cells. Only Radio Shack has them.
Oh, and whatever you get: put 'em on when you get to the range. Dunno how many times I've walked into a pistol bay when someone decided to do a mag dump. I put mine on right away, sometimes even before I'm out of the truck. Then again, I'm kinda OCD about my hearing.


1911fan

 

[Centuriator]

And avoid the idiots out there making stupid comments, such as the one I ran across again the other day, "I only wear my hearing protection when I'm indoors, when I shoot outside the sound dissipates in the open air enough so that you don't have to worry about hearing protection."

 

[Here2Learn]

At least you would be able to hear him when he did.
I wore "cheap" ear protection. Don't think I saved a dime in the end because the hearing aids cost me $6000.

Cost effective doesn't mean cheap or less protection. The pro-37 cost $137 and provide a NRR rating of 37. On top of that if it is something you are on the fence about I have a code to help out. I use the PRO-37s and can hear normal conversation and hits on steel out to atleast 700 yds and no batteries needed

 

[EddieP]

And avoid the idiots out there making stupid comments, such as the one I ran across again the other day, "I only wear my hearing protection when I'm indoors, when I shoot outside the sound dissipates in the open air enough so that you don't have to worry about hearing protection."

What he said, I'll go "naked" when hunting with a suppressor as I personally don't feel the risk is there from 1 or 2 (literally) shots I there.

I WILL wear protection all other times even when shooting on an outdoor range suppressed.

 

[1911fan]

If you want "in ear" check out hear pro. HEAR-PRO | Custom Sound Management. Every bit as good as ESPs but not as expensive. Check out the amp-37 (electronic) and pro-37 (passive). The pro-37 are very affordable and I can still hear hits on steel at 700 yds. PM me and I can hook you up with a code for a discount too

Any idea what local install costs?

1911fan

 

[Centuriator]

What he said, I'll go "naked" when hunting with a suppressor as I personally don't feel the risk is there from 1 or 2 (literally) shots I there.

I WILL wear protection all other times even when shooting on an outdoor range suppressed.

This dumb-dumb was not talking about shooting a suppressed firearm, unfortunately.

 

[shoot4fun]

Cost effective doesn't mean cheap or less protection. The pro-37 cost $137 and provide a NRR rating of 37. On top of that if it is something you are on the fence about I have a code to help out. I use the PRO-37s and can hear normal conversation and hits on steel out to atleast 700 yds and no batteries needed

I was not implying that it takes $2000+ to get great hearing protection but that you should not rely on the low dollar muffs out there that are poorly constructed.
I have never tried the pro-37. Why didn't you set me up with a pair?

 

[EddieP]

This dumb-dumb was not talking about shooting a suppressed firearm, unfortunately.

I can imagine, we need to provide a good reason to be allowed to buy a suppressor, hearing protection is one of the very acceptable ones. I was more just highlighting my paranoia around protecting my hearing.

 

[Centuriator]

I have never tried the pro-37. Why didn't you set me up with a pair?

I'm not aware of any active hearing protection that offers 37 decible reduction. I'd like to see which ones you have in mind.

 

[Pinecone]

The Pro-37 only gives about a 25 dB passive noise reduction, according to their web site. The problem with molded in the ear types is that your ear canal changes shape due to various factors, including hydration level. So when they are molded you might get a great noise reduction, but on any given day, they will provide less protection that that.

This is why the foam plugs offer such a high NRR. The mold to your ear canal AT THAT TIME.

The maximum protection you can get (plugs plus muffs) is about 45 dB. After that, you are getting the noise through bone conduction.

I use foam plugs or Pro Ears (VERY early ones). If I am around firearms with a LOT of noise, or a LOT of shooting (I Used to shoot and RO USPSA), I use both the foam plugs and Pro Ears.

 

[XOR]

I also use foam plugs and high rated NRR 26db peltor tactical pro muffs. A big problem with reusable plugs is quality of fit. Plus an audiologist warned me of risk of ear infection by jamming a dirty plug into your ear canal over and over again. With foam plugs you use them once and throw them out so risk of ear infection and other problems is less. Foam plugs are so cheap to buy in bulk that there is no reason not to use them with muffs.

A lot of electronic muffs have mediocre noise reduction. Best to check the specs and ignore the price to get the best noise reduction you can.

 

[kmose73]

"At least you would be able to hear him when he did."

Well said sir.

 

[pizzamanny]

Plugs and E-muffs turned all the way up. I use this with new shooters and noise is take out of the flinch equation.

 

[DoctorBen]

Howard leight Impact Sport over Hearos foam ear plugs. Gets me something like 55-60 NRR in decibel reduction, and I could hear hits on steel at 1000 with the impact sports turned to max, and a quiet firing line.

 

[William_LXIX]

Orange foamies and Sordins with gel-seals turned up MAX.

Works like a champ! Gravel crunch and brass hitting the deck are louder than the gunfire.

The gel seals mold AROUND my safety glasses ear pieces and don't compress them into my noggin - so comfy ALL day - except for summer - then ear sweat is an issue.

~Will

 

[Triad]

I've worn the MSA muffs since 2005. I was on a very heavy training cycle then: department SWAT training 3-4 days a month, teaching on the range, paying my own way to 2-3 weeks of training each year. Toss in wearing them on barricade jobs and for serving search warrants on our full time team, felt like I lived in them for a few years. Never had an issue with the muffs loosing their seal with my head(yes the gel rings make a big difference). My result were so good, the Dept bought 24 sets, one for each on the team. Point is, my love for the MSA goes back to BEFORE Triad was a dealer. Triad is a MSA dealer because of my good experience, we're not fans BECAUSE we are dealers.... And yes, I have tried numerous other muffs and in ear devices. I always come back to the MSA, and foam plugs under if needed. I do understand that other things work well for other people, and muffs(no matter how good) are not for everyone.


Triad is happy to offer the MSA Supreme Pro muffs with the silicone rings already installed. This breaks out to a savings of about $22.00 over buying the gels separately. Both styles of the muffs are listed here:

Triad Tactical, Inc.*::*MISC Shooting Gear

 

[Pinecone]

Howard leight Impact Sport over Hearos foam ear plugs. Gets me something like 55-60 NRR in decibel reduction, and I could hear hits on steel at 1000 with the impact sports turned to max, and a quiet firing line.

See my post above. Actually only about 45 dB real noise reduction.

But it works.

 

[Pinecone]

Howard Leight has been a BIG player in hearing protection for a LONG time. As has Peltor.

MSA less so, but they are VERY well known and respected in a number of other areas of the occpational health and safety field.

Pro Ears has been doing it for a number of years also. And my old big ProEars are actually built using Howard Leight Thunder 29 muffs, which was the highest rated NRR of any muff around.

 

[Shooter_Mc_Gavin]

I use the Howard Leight electronic muffs (I am also new to non passive muffs), I think I will probably save up and see if the Pro Gold (I think that is the name brand) has a slim set. I am on my College Sporting Clay team, and I hunt, range time. The only reason I actually am going with electronic is the Sporting Clay events, because of just needing to hear what my team members are saying. I can say though I really enjoy these I have now, and probably will never go back to passive.

 

[lifebreath]

MSA Supreme Pro-X for a muff-type are the best I've owned. I use Hear-Pro in-the-ear custom molded electronic units for all-day matches and when shooting rifles, since the stock pushes the muffs off the ear slightly when getting a good cheek weld.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

I prefer the Sordins with gel cups and wear foam ear plugs underneath. Get plenty of protection and can still hear anything I would want while shooting. My only concern with the electronic ear buds discussed above is the peak noise reduction. Can these really have enough dB reduction for the times when that guy just has to rent the .357 magnum and blast away right next to you at an indoor range, or when the guy with a .50 w/ a brake is shooting next to you under an awning?

I've shot multiple 50's with the sordins, without foamies under them and still have perfectly good hearing. I feel like the sordins will handle anything anyone on this forum will be shooting.

I used to shoot 3-4 days a week and would almost always have either my Peltors (issued) or my personal MSA's. MSA or someone associated with them has just release a way to turn your msa's into a comm 2 way head set while still maintain full use of the sound reduction and amplification. I have not had a chance to use this new add-on but hope to soon.

 

[rero360]

I have a pair of Peltors OTH with the gel cups, amazingly comfortable but are a pain in the but to wear while wearing a helmet. I also have a pair of TCI's Liberator 3s BTH, those are a lot easier to wear with a helmet and allow to hook up to and talk on two different radios at once, but without the gel cups they do start to hurt my ears after a few hours, in particular my left tragus. Supposedly I have to give the Liberators back to CA but I was told they were mine and I never signed for them, I'm going to give it a few months and if no one tries and get them back from me I'm going to contact TCI and see if they can upgrade them to the gel cups.

When shooting, especially in enclosed ranges, I like to double up with the surefires under the muffs.

I will say, slightly off topic, its a bit difficult to communicate with an Apache pilot that is overhead when he is in one ear and you got two other radio feeds squawking in your other ear, all while trying to concentrate on manning the CROWS turret as well.

 

[Pinecone]

Non-passive are great for sporting clays.

Since sporting clays allows a delay between the pull call and the actual target launch, hearing the trap can be an advantage.

 

[Here2Learn]

The Pro-37 only gives about a 25 dB passive noise reduction, according to their web site. The problem with molded in the ear types is that your ear canal changes shape due to various factors, including hydration level. So when they are molded you might get a great noise reduction, but on any given day, they will provide less protection that that.

This is why the foam plugs offer such a high NRR. The mold to your ear canal AT THAT TIME.

The maximum protection you can get (plugs plus muffs) is about 45 dB. After that, you are getting the noise through bone conduction.

I use foam plugs or Pro Ears (VERY early ones). If I am around firearms with a LOT of noise, or a LOT of shooting (I Used to shoot and RO USPSA), I use both the foam plugs and Pro Ears.

This is incorrect and bad advise. The Pro37 offer 37 DB NNR as do the AMP37. You are talking about the Instapros. Please read carefully. If you have questions about Hear-Pro Products PM me and I will get the correct info for you. 37 DB is better than MSA Sordin. At optimal thickness they will give 39. The minimum they gave in test were 37

 

[Here2Learn]

I'm not aware of any active hearing protection that offers 37 decible reduction. I'd like to see which ones you have in mind.

Hear-pro AMP37 offer 37 DB NRR. actually 39 at optimal thickness. PM me and I can help a little with the price

www.hear-pro.com

jim

 

[Here2Learn]

I was not implying that it takes $2000+ to get great hearing protection but that you should not rely on the low dollar muffs out there that are poorly constructed.
I have never tried the pro-37. Why didn't you set me up with a pair?

Brother, Best I can do is a discount. PM me if your interested
jim

 

[Here2Learn]

Any idea what local install costs?

1911fan

No Charge for local install

 

[Mute]

There are quite a few very good electronic hearing protection devices including the ones already listed above. If you prefer some kind of expanding foam plugs but still want electronics to hear range commands and conversations, you can also check out Etymotic.

FYI, a similar model, though not directly marketed to LE is available on Amazon right now and they're on sale for $329, along with a $50 off coupon:

Etymotic GSP1

 

[Pinecone]

This is incorrect and bad advise. The Pro37 offer 37 DB NNR as do the AMP37. You are talking about the Instapros. Please read carefully. If you have questions about Hear-Pro Products PM me and I will get the correct info for you. 37 DB is better than MSA Sordin. At optimal thickness they will give 39. The minimum they gave in test were 37

Sorry, I was thinking of the other product.

But I would be interested in how you get a higher level of sound attenuation that virtually ANY other product on the market.

And how does that change from day to day from changes in the ear canal due to hydration and other affects?

 

[clmayfield]

And how does that change from day to day from changes in the ear canal due to hydration and other affects?

Honestly, I have never heard anything like that. I developed tinnitus from a range day where I bought "fitted" plugs but these were fitted not molded. Small, medium, and large is not the same as a custom-molded plug. Foam plugs are effective at blocking out noise. But I have never heard anyone say that molded ear plugs were less effective than foam. And I have done a lot of research on the subject.

Whenever I hear shooters talk about hydration, my bs-meter goes into overdrive. I have heard hydration being blamed for pulled shots, poor vision, and every other malady you can think of. A red herring most of the time unless you are talking true dehydration.

As to the ear canal... most water is stored in the fat layer of your skin. Once you get to the inner ear, the fat layer is very thin. I have a hard time believing hydration levels will substantially change inner ear dimensions... unless you have some academic studies you'd like to share with us. I would be curious to read them.

 

[Krazyjohnny]

I went with Westone custom molds and use my Peltor electronic muffs over them. Works great for me and I use the molds on the motorcycle as well.


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[Pinecone]

Honestly, I have never heard anything like that. I developed tinnitus from a range day where I bought "fitted" plugs but these were fitted not molded. Small, medium, and large is not the same as a custom-molded plug. Foam plugs are effective at blocking out noise. But I have never heard anyone say that molded ear plugs were less effective than foam. And I have done a lot of research on the subject.

Whenever I hear shooters talk about hydration, my bs-meter goes into overdrive. I have heard hydration being blamed for pulled shots, poor vision, and every other malady you can think of. A red herring most of the time unless you are talking true dehydration.

As to the ear canal... most water is stored in the fat layer of your skin. Once you get to the inner ear, the fat layer is very thin. I have a hard time believing hydration levels will substantially change inner ear dimensions... unless you have some academic studies you'd like to share with us. I would be curious to read them.

I am a Certified Industrial Hygienist. I have been dealing with noise, hearing, and hearing protection for almost 30 years, and was interested in and did some studying before that (shooting and flying mainly). I actually got Howard Leight into the shooting world. I harassed Howard himself every time I could.

I have talked to all the mainstream hearing protection companies.

The ear canal is not static. It gets bigger and smaller for various reasons. Hydration level is one, according the hearing protection experts I have talked with. Also a weight change can cause a change in size. And historically, molded plugs change their performance over time, even day to day. The other issue, if the molding it not under constant pressure, you will not get a tight fit. A foam plug is constantly trying to expand a bit, keeping the tissue compressed.

I am interested in how they are getting 37 dB noise reduction. However, I do notice, I did not notice a claim of 37 NRR (Noised Reduction Rating). NRR is the industry standard for rating hearing protection. However, one thing to realize, it is not independently tested. The company does the testing and then makes its claim. Years ago, a certain very well know brand was found have been gaming the NRR testing, and coming up with an NRR several dB higher than "regular" testing would get.

Dehydration can be the cause for many issues. When you feel thirsty, you are about 10% low on water. And from flying fighters, if you feel thirsty, there is a significant decrease in your tolerance to G forces. From a heat stress standpoint, even small amounts of dehydration can cause symptoms to start appearing. Could they cause a miss? I think so.