Heavy Safe Upstairs?

[sawgunner2001]

Looking to invest in a new safe. I'm pretty decided on the make and model, just debating size right now. It will weigh between 900 and 1200 pounds empty.

My house was built in 2006 and is two stories with the ground floor consisting of (from the front door-in) the living room, kitchen/dining area, and master bed/bath. Second story consists of a loft, laundry room, 3 bedrooms (one of which is the "man cave" with reloading gear and all related "gun stuff"), and a bathroom. The "man cave" is located above the attached two car garage.

I am adamant about not having the safe in the garage due to the humidity in SE GA and that the garage is the easiest place to steal a safe from. I would prefer to keep it out of the living room for aesthetic reasons, and the fact that it would be extremely visible to anyone entering my home. I haven't asked the wife about putting it in the master bedroom, but even if she allowed it, there isn't a whole lot of room left to put it with all the furniture in there already. All that being said, I would prefer to put it in my current "man cave" which is in an upstairs corner of the house. Actually, I would probably put it in that corner of that room if that were advisable.

All that being said, is it "safe" to put a gun safe as heavy as the ones I'm looking at in that location? My thoughts are that since it would be going against two load bearing (exterior) walls and it's footprint is almost 8sq', that it would probably be fine. But I'm a criminal justice major...not an engineer.

One concern I had was in the event of a fire, the safe crashing down on top of a firefighter. I talked to our fire chief who said this was a non-issue. He compared it to the common construction practice around these parts of people putting their HVAC units and water heaters in the attic. He also said that 1200-1500 pounds on a second story is a non-issue as well. Another concern that was brought to my attention was the possibility of the stairs holding up to the weight during the safe's journey up them. I seem to think that the stairs would hold up fine given the relatively short amount of time that they would be subject to the weight of the safe. Just looking to get additional opinions/advice before I continue my quest for a safe as heavy as the ones I'm looking at.

Thanks in Advance

 

[Graham]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

If the floor is designed to support a water bed it will also support a safe.

 

[264win]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

If your house was built well and to code you will be ok.
If you want are worried, put the safe against an exterior wall.
Preferably in a corner where two exterior walls meet.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Buy the biggest safe you possibly can. They really only come in one size. TOO SMALL.

OFG

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

The floor/stairs is fine. I have high doubts any safe at 1400F/45min or similar will keep pretty contents high above the kindle (and I don't wish that on anyone). Weight is more often volume or size and not added thermal isolation (sheet rock).

Externally your fine (to weight), internally (to safe contents) it's not optimal per worst-case fire. Your own risk assessment or modifications to that aspect.

 

[George63]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

if you have a stair case enclosed between walls or supported from the underside, structurally it will be no problem - marking up the wood or carpet is a more likely issue

people who install these daily will have the equipment / techniques to minimize any issues

for the permanent location I would consider putting it up on a short platform that will spread to load to perhaps 4 ft x 4 ft

 

[wdebo]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

If your safe with guns inside comes to a total weight of 1400 pounds. That gives you a dead load of 175 lbs per sq ft. I don't know what your codes are for floor ratings are in your state. But they are nowhere near 175 lbs I would say closer to 40.
With that being said if you position your safe in the corner that will help you a bunch. If you could access your floor joist from below and do lateral blocking would help also if it is going to stay in that spot for years. It will probably hold it fine..
As far as your stairs go a good set of wood stringers will take it. If there the cheap builder grade pre-fabed stairs be careful they very well may not take the weight of the safe plus the machine.

 

[csi:cyberspace]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Mine is 3500lbs and on the second floor. Total BASTARD to get moved and setup!!! I can NOT understate that. Advantage is taht on one side of the house, I have an outside access point on a "ground" level to get it in and didn't have to deal with stairs. Point is, it is on a corner of two lb walls, and I put a column directly under it to add support. I made a closet in the room under it, and hid the column inside there.

 

[LegioX]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Most safe doors will lift off easily, (sort of) move it seperately to lighten the load. A moving dolly and all the buddies you can bribe with beer is a good idea as well!
Ours is on the second floor and in a corner as you mentioned, we have had zero issues.
Good luck!

 

[fireEMT5]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

You could also check out these if getting all that weight up the stairs at one time is an issue.

I have one and the issue was getting it down into my basement without a walkout. When/if we ever move again, I can disassemble and carry most of it out by myself.

http://www.zanottiarmor.com/safes.htm

Not the cheapest out there, but the value of being able to assemble and some day dis-assemble and move it easily was worth the extra cost for me. Another added bonus is that I live close to where they are made, so I hauled it myself and showed up with cash in hand which saved me a couple hundred bucks.

Another bonus is that you can spec out the exact interior layout you want - more/less shelf width, more/less long gun storage, etc.

Safe also came with a set of gun rods and the underside of the upper shelves carpeted, so I can stand up long guns anywhere I want.

For absolute piece of mind, go talk to building and safety wherever your builder got the permits to build your house. Take along your blue prints and show them exactly where you plan to set your safe. With a quick glance they should be able to either give you a yeah or nay and you'll know for sure.

 

[hk dave]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

It's a bad idea to do so. While the floor will hold it... over time it will begin to sag. Will cause permanent damage to the floor along with the framing. Putting it in a corner (supported corner, not the corner of a room, just because its the corner of a room doesn't mean it's supported) will help, but i bet it'll still sag.

Getting it up the stairs should also be an interesting adventure.

 

[chakup]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Should be easy to find out, that's what ~10 people? Sounds like you need to throw a little party- invite 15ish women and you'll have an idea on weight bearing and more fun

I'm gonna guess you'll be OK. I had my big safe upstairs at old place no issues other than moving it. Have a buddy who has a near walk-in safe on the second floor of his place.

 

[B3dlam]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

I dont think you would have an issue if your really worried about it you could buy a piece of 3/4" Plywood and lay it down the place the safe ontop of it to help spread the weight out over a larger surface area. With an 8 square foot footprint you are looking at 150 lbs per square foot for a 1200 pound safe. A sheet of 4x8 ply spreads it out to 32 square feet or 37.5 pounds per square foot. That being said you likely exert more then 150 lbs per square foot if you stand on one foot.

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

I haven't disappeared, folks. Just mulling over what y'all have had to say. Feel free to keep ideas coming. In the meantime, I'm gonna make a few phone calls and see if I can find an engineer who might be a friend of a friend of a friend...

 

[jlow]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Have you thought about using a closet downstairs. It would put a crimp on closet space but it would get you completely around the visibility, weight concerns, and the logistics of having to move it up and down (later).

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you thought about using a closet downstairs. It would put a crimp on closet space but it would get you completely around the visibility, weight concerns, and the logistics of having to move it up and down (later).</div></div>

I have. I need to measure and see actually how much closet space my wife would loose in her master closet and propose the idea to her....That is the best alternate idea if the upstairs idea goes belly up.

 

[UNCIVILIZED]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Any chance of using a block & tackle setup, with multiple anchor points linked together? A lot of the stickyness here would be the configuration of your stairs, as well as where & what you'd be willing to put in for anchor points. Then they could be connected with an Anchor Plate
With a 6:1 purchase & 4 or 5 guys pulling together, the weight's doable. It's the manuvering of the thing that gets tricky.
Odds are it'd be far from cheap, or easy, but it's an idea to perhaps ponder on.

 

[Luke]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Here ya go: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=192_1351748690

Not fireproof mind you, but clever idea...

 

[jdgray]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LegioX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most safe doors will lift off easily, (sort of) move it seperately to lighten the load. A moving dolly and all the buddies you can bribe with beer is a good idea as well!
Ours is on the second floor and in a corner as you mentioned, we have had zero issues.
Good luck! </div></div>

A safe that heavy requires a safe moving dolly, that can climb stairs electrically. A friend and I moved my 500lb safe down a walkout basement stairway on a refrigerator dolly...... What a mistake!

 

[wdebo]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B3dlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think you would have an issue if your really worried about it you could buy a piece of 3/4" Plywood and lay it down the place the safe ontop of it to help spread the weight out over a larger surface area. With an 8 square foot footprint you are looking at 150 lbs per square foot for a 1200 pound safe. A sheet of 4x8 ply spreads it out to 32 square feet or 37.5 pounds per square foot. That being said you likely exert more then 150 lbs per square foot if you stand on one foot. </div></div>

The sheet of plywood is not a bad idea, but it is not structurally sound enough to make much difference.
Yes you would exert more weight on one foot, but most people don't stand on one foot in the same place for years and never move.
You will want a machine to move this safe up your stairs the tracks on the machine disperse the load more evenly.

 

[tnichols]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

I reread your post and I take it you do not have a basement. In our neck of the woods, we always advise to put them in the basement, because if you don't put it there, fire will (with time). I agree with the fella that advised strengthening the structure if you can to help support the weight over time. Get the biggest one you can afford that will fit in your home.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

my house is 4yrs old, and is two stories with a basement. my safe is on the first floor. I had a structural engineer come and evaluate the floor prior to purchasing my safe. My floor joists are doubled up 110 TJI's. The engineer recommended putting the safe in a outside corner only to avoid flexing the joists. My safe weighed 1100lbs BEFORE i filled it with 700lbs of rifles and ammo. Id be very very careful putting that safe upstairs. second floors are rarely framed with TJI's, usually 2x10 or 2x12, which have much less capacity than TJI's.

 

[THE MGD]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Whatever you decide to do, hide the safe. Build fake walls infromt of it, bookshelf, whatever. "Shorten" a closet. If you cant find it, you cant steal it.

 

[Mark Walker]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

I recently bought a new house (builder inventory so I couldn't have them beef anything up) and asked the builder about the very same thing.

They said it would eventually cause issues putting a safe that heavy upstairs, even in a outside walled corner. Just too heavy without additional supports being integrated.

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

Well, talked to the safe dealer today. He was marginally concerned with the safe sitting on an upstairs floor. He was greatly concerned with the construction of the stairs. He stated that in his experience, the stairs and adjoining walls are put under too much stress when subjected to a 1000#+ safe, 3x200# men, and 300# of moving equipment. Although he hasn't seen a complete failure where everything ends up on the floor beneath them, he has seen walls crack and stairs damaged. He no longer even attempts to move safes this large up any more stairs than he can place a ramp (typically 3 stairs or so). So upstairs is out of the question.

I measured my master closet and found that it only has a 24" door. In other words, to put it in the closet I need to tear out the door frame and "hope" that there are 3" or so of shims on each side (not probable). Gonna talk to the wife tonight about the safe being a piece of furniture in the bedroom....wish me luck.

 

[jlow]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

You know, when anyone brings up this thing about buying a safe, everyone always says buy the biggest one... Now I understand the rationale, but have you thought about buying two medium size ones? That would also ease the logistics big time. I know smaller safes are easier to steal but even the medium size ones are a huge job bringing downstairs....

 

[TWOMANATTACK]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

You floor system should support the weight of the safe. If you are really concerned put it on some longer 2x4s to spread the weight across the floor truss'.

 

[razerwire]

Re: Heavy Safe Upstairs?

A standard floor load is 40lb live load, a 10lb dead load for floor, and a 7lb dead load for ceiling. Adds up to 57lb total load per sq. foot. When we know someone is going to put tile on floor we add for the weight tile and the mud. If some one is going to put pool table or water bed we ask where and beef up floor trusses under area. You could take measurements under floor then add weight and see sag for yourself. Sag WILL get worse with time. Owner of truss yard since 1978.