Night Vision Helmet Mounted Thermal and Night Vision. What it looks like.

[TNVC_Will]

I was able to simulate to a close degree what my HMT/NV set up looks like to my eyes and want to share it for you guys wondering what it looks like. Video below.

It's FAR, FAR better in person and the thermal image overlays almost perfectly on top of the NV image. I filmed both at the same time while mounted on the KVC bridge but the magnification isn't the same due to how the Breach captures video. The thermal lag causes the Breach to fall behind the -14 on video but this isn't noticeable to the eye and the skipping you see is from me editing the video to try and get them lined up. If I'm walking around it does cause the overlay to shift from the bouncing but it doesn't do it while stationary.

I was running GP originally but I swapped in the unfilmed WP. It does work better with the outdoor alert mode black hot background but I got the same results with GP. As you can see, outdoor alert mode pops and is what creates the "fusion" like overlay.

The set up:
FLIR Breach
PVS-14 with L3H unfilmed WP
KVC universal bridge, OSS, and K clips
Breach at 2nd to lowest brightness setting
PVS-14 gain at 1/2 - 3/4 gain (ETA:with bright moon)

I mounted it just like the picture shows. The PVS-14 is on my dominant eye. The Breach had to be mounted exactly this way with the IPD set close to the -14 with the display screen in portrait aka door frame view. I'm using the right side K clip on the rail that positions the buttons towards the PVS-14.

If you have this setup and can't get a good overlay, give this a try, and I hope you get the same results.

I don't think I ever thanked TNVC for the Breach, so Thank You TNVC!

FWIW, I paid the exact same price as any of you who are ARF members (not sure if there is a SH discount?). Being an ARF member, I asked for, and was given the standard ARF discount.

 

[Dvlray6]

Very nicely done!

 

[GRM]

The NV sections are very clear and focused.

 

[GRM]

The NV sections are very clear and focused. Definitely better than the "star-light" scopes from the early days. What lighting conditions did you have.

 

[DoubleHaul]

How are your ocular eyepieces lined up? I'm going to try to replicate this and see if my images collimate better. Right now I'm running the occular of the pvs-14 and the Breach occular flush with each other (when the 14 eyecup retainer ring is removed). Things seem to be the same size once I finagle the diopter focus on the Breach just right.

From a distance to my eyes standpoint both occulars barely clear my helmet brim when articulated up, and it works with eyepro on.

 

[Rerun7]

Very helpful Will - thanks for putting that together!

 

[TNVC_Will]

How are your ocular eyepieces lined up? I'm going to try to replicate this and see if my images collimate better. Right now I'm running the occular of the pvs-14 and the Breach occular flush with each other (when the 14 eyecup retainer ring is removed). Things seem to be the same size once I finagle the diopter focus on the Breach just right.

From a distance to my eyes standpoint both occulars barely clear my helmet brim when articulated up, and it works with eyepro on.

I also run them flush. I set the right eye PVS-14 for use with dual -14's since I swap back & forth using the KVC OSS with the collar that allows you to move the dovetail fore/aft. I matched the distance of the Breach using the KVC K clip. The MUM rail is a little banged up for where I had to lock the set screw however no biggie to me.

 

[TNVC_Will]

I have received a lot of questions about this setup. Here are the ones I've gotten the most and my answers to them. I want to make sure that anybody who is looking at doing this setup knows what to expect. I especially do not want to give anyone false expectations.

How exactly are you mounting them?
I can only make the overlay work with the KVC, OSS, and K Clips. I get the fusion-like overlay with the Breach on my left eye (weak eye) using the MUM rail with the buttons facing towards the PVS-14, and the K clip that offsets the dovetail to the left of the MUM rail. I’ve tried both eyes and the other rails with both K clips but the overlay was too far off and caused significant double vision. I would start by mounting it this way and if it doesn't work then try each MUM rail with both K clips at different IPD distances. If that doesn't work then switch eyes and repeat the process. Play with the diopter settings and possibly even the Breach's magnification. I'm running the Breach at 1x.

Do you get fusion?
Basically, yes! The outdoor alert mode orange/red highlights is what creates the fusion effect with the NV. Sometimes the images overlay perfect and sometimes they do not. When it overlays, it's easy on the eyes, but when it's not, the offset images do cause some eye strain. It overlays better while stationary. It bounces around when you walk which causes the overlay to shift around but it is more than doable. My main takeaway is that it is not 100% consistent which I think mostly has to do with how fresh or tired my eyes are. It is f'n badass when it overlays. I'm sure it's possible that some folks may not be able to achieve the overlay.

Should I get this setup instead of duals?
It depends on what you are doing with it. I think this setup would work great if you are hunting with a thermal/ NV scope or clip on. Sitting stationary, the overlay is more reliable, and you have the option to articulate up the NV monocular and scan with thermal only. You will see way more animals scanning with head mounted thermal. IMO, NV duals/binos will be better for hiking, running & gunning, dynamic movement, etc.

What works better, GP or WP?
I found both phosphor colors to work very well, however, I do find WP is better with outdoor alert mode because the black hot back ground and WP go great together. Sepia and GP with amber filter didn't work as well for me.

How do they work in dynamic situations?
Because the overlay is not 100% reliable, I would not count on this set up for serious work like a 2 way range. Even with a perfect overlay, it doesn’t work well with quick movements. I find that I need to scan slowly for the overlay to work. Scanning too fast outruns the thermal, meaning you might not get the outdoor alert to “pop” and you can blow right by something.

I hope this info helps.

 

[DoubleHaul]

I believe the bouncing image in the Breach is due to the small amount of lag. It's distracting at first, but you get used to it. I've even noticed that when walking dirt roads my eyes kind of switch to the Breach view bc it gives better contrast of the rocks, sticks, etc laying in the road (especially true under a tree canopy).

The biggest game changer for my Breach setup so far is the Mod Armory battery extender. I hated having a USB cable run to the unit (or eating 3x cr123s a night) - worried about that fragile port. Running a 16650 gets me through a whole 3hr+ walkabout without having to touch it.

I have started to prefer black hot over outdoor alert (running a WP Echo over my right eye). I found the false orange positives (especially the horizon and trees) very distracting (pulling my eyes out of the I2 image), and for whatever reason the pallet in black hot seems to give me more terrain detail. It's also pretty warm down here in TX - ambients around 50-80 when I've been out. This is a recent change for me, and I'm still pretty new to the Breach/14 setup. I ran outdoor alert for the first 5 nights out and black hot for the second 5. Probably have 40 hours hunting with the combo now.

Might also add that having thermal is great for finding downed hogs that ran off a bit.

Posted this in the other thread, but here is what my black hot/WP setup looks like (just imagine the nv side is about 500% better than the anvrs records).

 

[TNVC_Will]

I believe the bouncing image in the Breach is due to the small amount of lag. It's distracting at first, but you get used to it. I've even noticed that when walking dirt roads my eyes kind of switch to the Breach view bc it gives better contrast of the rocks, sticks, etc laying in the road (especially true under a tree canopy).

The biggest game changer for my Breach setup so far is the Mod Armory battery extender. I hated having a USB cable run to the unit (or eating 3x cr123s a night) - worried about that fragile port. Running a 16650 gets me through a whole 3hr+ walkabout without having to touch it.

I have started to prefer black hot over outdoor alert (running a WP Echo over my right eye). I found the false orange positives (especially the horizon and trees) very distracting (pulling my eyes out of the I2 image), and for whatever reason the pallet in black hot seems to give me more terrain detail. It's also pretty warm down here in TX - ambients around 50-80 when I've been out. This is a recent change for me, and I'm still pretty new to the Breach/14 setup. I ran outdoor alert for the first 5 nights out and black hot for the second 5. Probably have 40 hours hunting with the combo now.

Might also add that having thermal is great for finding downed hogs that ran off a bit.

Posted this in the other thread, but here is what my black hot/WP setup looks like (just imagine the nv side is about 500% better than the anvrs records).

100% agree, the Mod Armory battery extender is a must IMO. I also like to swap between using the Breach on the bridge and using duals or binos, and wear the Breach on a lanyard. Trying to run a battery pack while it's hanging on your neck with a rifle slung doesn't work so good, lol.

The terrain & conditions definitely affect outdoor alert. I have a lot of trees, cacti, and rocks but I don't have a clear view of the horizon unless I'm on one of my hills. With the settings below I get very few false hits. Small animals mostly get picked up but sometimes not. Larger animals & humans get picked up 100%. My night time temps are in the low-to-mid 20's and humidity 40-50% however.

Outdoor preset
contrast 220
sharpness 100-110 (lowering it reduces the outdoor alert false hit)
smart scene 30
gain 100
agc 90

 

[TNVC_Will]

Here's some additional info to share after continuing to use this set up nightly for anyone interested in this setup. 1. I've been able to reliably get a good overlay with every use. The more I've used it, the better I've gotten at using them together at the same time. Increased usage seems to play a large role with your success/effectiveness with it or at least for me it does. 2. If you haven't used a monocular very much coming from binos/duals to HMT/NV, you should practice running with the monocular only. 3. The non-working battery indicator that results from using the Mod Armory 16650 battery extender can be a PITA. This has become my go to setup especially on dark dark nights for finding animals. It has already paid off when I was able to spot a squadron of javelina with the Breach that my dog and I were heading towards on the property. I saw them well before I could have with NV and the dog didn't even know they were there, lol. I probably would have heard them or the dog alert to them before I saw them with just NV, which would've been a problem because there were a lot of them, and if they felt threatened they could come after the dog. When I get a thermal hit on the overlay, I can keep both eyes open and maintain the overlaid images. The overlay works well but like others have said they use it, I find myself closing my NV eye and using the thermal only when I'm scanning to make sure I don't miss anything. Sometimes the NV washes out the thermal and when it does, if I don't get an outdoor alert orange/red hit, I can miss hits in black hot. However, as long as my focus stays on thermal, the black hot image works well with NV, which is easier to do on dark nights since the NV image is fairly dark compared to the thermal. Normally when I'm patrolling the property I have a dump pouch that I keep my other PVS-14 in and I keep an extra 16650 in my pocket. Of course, I didn't bring either with me last night with zero moon and cloudy conditions. From past experience I thought I had enough juice for the night. At the furthest edge of my property the Breach shut off leaving me with only the one PVS-14. I haven't used a single monocular in a while on a dark night and let me tell you, it reminded me exactly why I quickly got duals, lol. I'm very comfortable being alone in the dark but I'll have to admit that the monocular tunnel vision effect that is magnified in the dark dark didn't make me feel so confident, lol. I was glad I converted my unfilmed tubes back to 11769 because I needed to lower the gain substantially, which I have always found works the best for me with a mono on a dark night. I'm going to start running a single -14 more often to get reacclimated. The battery extender is nice to eliminate the cable and remote battery but if you don't want it shutting down on you unexpectedly, I'd recommend using a remote battery pack for the longer run time. That is one issue with the way I have the Breach configured with the buttons facing the -14. The 90 degree plug I have sticks out and interferes with the -14. I have a flush mount plug on order and hopefully it'll clear.

 

[stefan73]

I'm looking at a NOX to run with my PVS-14 down the road here and I am debating between the Wilcox or KVC. Of course that challenge is that KVC seems much more difficult to come across.

Thoughts?

 

[TNVC_Will]

I'm looking at a NOX to run with my PVS-14 down the road here and I am debating between the Wilcox or KVC. Of course that challenge is that KVC seems much more difficult to come across.

Thoughts?

I haven't used the Wilcox to comment on it from firsthand use. The two main things I see are the weight and adjustments.

Weight:
According to Wilcox's product sheet it is 7.37oz but it doesn't specify if that's for the bridge only or if that is the bridge with two PVS-14 dovetail arms. I'm assuming that's for the whole enchilada. For comparison, the KVC universal bridge only is 3.3oz and bridge plus OSS shoes is 5.2oz.

Adjustments:
I believe each side (left & right) of the Wilcox allows for separate fore & aft adjustment, which may be important for getting the eyepiece of the NOX even with the -14, however, I'm not sure if that's an issue or not. I haven't used the NOX so I don't know how well the placement of the dovetail lines up with a -14 on the KVC.

Based on this info, if the NOX is far from lining up even with a -14, then Wilcox will be better for the individual fore & aft adjustment for each side. If it lines up or is close enough, I'd go KVC for the lighter weight, and you can use the collared OSS shoe to line them up since it has fore & aft adjustment. There isn't a ton of adjustment but it should be enough.

 

[stefan73]

I think people like the Wilcox for the Patrol, like what you wrote about to adjust for the eyepiece.

 

[stefan73]

the big challenge is locating a KVC! I'll be in the hunt after Christmas.

 

[TNVC_Will]

the big challenge is locating a KVC! I'll be in the hunt after Christmas.

It definitely sucks right now.

If you’re set on a KVC, it’s probably best to just order one on back order vs gambling on being late to the party when they start showing up in case they get snatched up before you can snag one.

 

[pmclaine]

My bad.....

Looks like LTC does make helmets so perhaps the Hoplite hat on Bulletproofzone is a US product...

Found this vid on LTCs site




Guess Ill post a question to BPZ and Hoplite.....