Help doping 5R 20"?? 175SMK shoot coming up need help.

[groundhogbuster]

I thought my Beanland 260 build would be here for the shoot this coming weekend, but it looks like I'm gonna use the 308. I have shot it to 1000, but only 24x24 steel, and most anything above 300 is on steel, but I'm needing some data to punch smaller holes at 500yds. I used Strelok for 200yds and groups were always a cluster of holes but high, and I was using apps that said 8clicks at 200. I dialed 6 and it was dead nutz. So I have the scope (Weaver Tac FFP 3-15) zeroed for 100, 6c evev. for 200, but I need 300 and 500yds as well for the shoot. I am using handloads of 45g Varget behind a 175SMK (175 shoots better than the 168's) I was guessing that since I have a 20" my velocity would be around 2600, but without a chrono or 500yds to shoot, I'm dumbfounded. It must be shooting 2700+ to be 6 clicks up and dead on at 200, at least using every ballistic calc. I have used. I shoot the 168's with 46g and 175s at 45g and load to 2.810", simply because that's what shoots the best at 1 & 200 yds. I was spending so much time getting my 260 stuff in order for my build, I don't have the time or place to shoot to get my dope. I do have 400yds, but after work is done it's too late during the week, and the shoot is this Sat.
I always thought Fed brass sucked, and just used it to load for hunting, and shot a 5 shot 200yd group of .420" yesterday using once fired Fed brass, Fed 215 primer, 175smk, and 45g Varget. Any help appreciated.
BTW I used the Lapua app with their 170g pill, and it said 6clicks up with 2700fps. Could a 20" shoot a 175 that fast? Thanks guys. This is all I have

100yds= dead on
200yds= 6clicks up and dope for wind of course
300yds= 12" steel hits
400yds 12" steel hits

 

[FALex]

hmmm...6 "clicks" (AKA .6 or 6 tenths) is indicative of a load slower than 2700, but also need more data. Altitude and temp would help. Where were you aiming on the 3 and 400 yard steal and where were you hitting? Were the groups decent size? How far DOPE do you need? I'd just plug the numbers in running at 2600...it probably won't be slower than that.

 

[groundhogbuster]

2880 Altitude, 63 degrees, and I'm putting 6, 1/4" clicks of elevation on the optic to get dead on at 200. Just looking at what I need for 300yd and 500yds. Weather here has sucked to say the least. I'm using the hot loads simply because that's where it shoots the best. Only grouping I have done is at 1 &200yds. I did at 300 but with a completely different scope in mils, and this one is moa. Only steel I have grouped is on my 6br and 243 at 700yds, but that was last year. But using 2600, on any calc shows much more drop than I'm getting, so this thing must be shooting over 2700 with the 175's?? I dunno. Opposite with my other 243, I used Strelok for 200 and was a .780" group but 3" low shooting the 105 amax with 45.9g H1000 behind it, and I did have access to a chrono then and it was at 2900. Any info on 3 & 500yd dope will be much appreciated.

 

[groundhogbuster]

BTW I was just doing hold overs on the steel plates, just playing around. Thanks

 

[DavidPatton]

I have a feeling we are heading to the same place this coming weekend, and im way more in the dark than you lol. That place isnt very far from the house so we are heading down thursday to check out the range and do some shooting. Not sure if you know or not, but the range is open all week to the public so everyone can get dialed in

 

[Shoots 700's]

My dope for 500 is 11.75 MOA

 

[groundhogbuster]

Yea I'm going again. lol. I was 8th a cpl yrs ago in stock class, and came close to winning in 05 with a 6BR. I usually shoot custom, but in this situation I'll be shooting stock. Shot there for years, and yea Larry told me it's opened all week, but gotta feed the Family,lol.
Hey Shoots... Are you shooting the 175's? What brrl length?

 

[DavidPatton]

Yea I'm going again. lol. I was 8th a cpl yrs ago in stock class, and came close to winning in 05 with a 6BR. I usually shoot custom, but in this situation I'll be shooting stock. Shot there for years, and yea Larry told me it's opened all week, but gotta feed the Family,lol.
Hey Shoots... Are you shooting the 175's? What brrl length?

We have never been before so if i shoot like crap thursday, im definetly not entering. Do you live close by?

 

[jordan0317]

What is this shoot in NC you speak of

 

[DavidPatton]

http://www.bullseyelarry.com/uploads/GhogShoot_2013_040613.pdf

 

[groundhogbuster]

The yrly Groundhog shoot. Bullseye Hosts it, and it's sponsored mostly by Shehane. Stock class and Open class. Open class anything goes, stock is just that. Bipod only, no 1 piece rests,just bipod in front, and bag in back, or 2 seperate bags. 100, 300, and 500yds at a groundhog silhouette, with 2 bulls. 1 on head, 1 on body. 3 shots at each distance, and $2 per egg shot at 500. When I started shooting it their were 250 people or more.
1st place= $300 + prizes
2nd $150 + prizes
3rd $50 + prizes. NF scopes, Tracker stocks, etc. Clay Spencer's gun usually wins the open class. It's up to you where you shoot (head or body) but head is worth more pts of course. The most pts wins.
Last year was brutal, 30+ mph winds 40 degrees, ugg. Lots of fun and all good guys, just remember bolt out of gun, chamber flag etc. and it is timed.

 

[DavidPatton]

dang i looked at last years scores and for moment saw a ray of hope... Thanks for ruining it lol

 

[groundhogbuster]

Yea last year was a crapshoot, I had my elevations, and dope for 10mph, which was ok for 100 but 40mph at 500? Gotta know way more than I do, (which isn't much) But when I shot it long ago I averaged 200rds per week on my straight 6mm w/70gMEF Bergers, but I can say this, if you wanna come close don't even bother with body shots at any distance. All head, and all dead center. My buddy's 6PPC won a cpl back then and it was a 50lb 30" $6000 Laser. But sometimes you get lucky. I hope to get on some 500yd shots this week to get my dope. But if you have never been it's worth it to see some of the guns there. Maybe I'll see ya there.
BTW Thanks for the 11.75 moa for 500, I just can't understand why my 200 is only 1.5moa, with a 20" tube.

 

[Highflyer]

With a MV of 2500, I use 5.25 moa at 300yds and 10.25 at 450yds. 500' Above sea level and temp of 80. 175 SMK, 43gr of BL(C)2

 

[exx1976]

I use 44.0 gr of Varget behind a 175 SMK in a 20" 1:10 barrel. That gets me 2566 @ 1000ft elevation and 34 degrees F (barometer unknown).

With factory Hornady Match 168gr A-MAX I get 2575 @ 1000 feet, same temp.

At 43 degrees F & 1000 feet, it was 14.5 MOA to get to 572 yards with the A-MAX.

 

[Mr Smith]

I also use a 175 smk with 44.0 grains of Varget in my 20" 1-10 Remington barrel, and my speed at 80 F. is 2580 fps. I'm dialing in mills so my 1000 yard dope is around 11.2- 11.4 Hope this helps.

 

[jordan0317]

Sounds like a fun shoot, I'll be at woody's match this weekend though, you fellas have fun

 

[groundhogbuster]

Thanks for all the help guys. Hope to see tomorrow what it actually is. Everyone that was goin with has cancelled, so I guess I'm a lone shooter come range time. Oh well

 

[groundhogbuster]

We have never been before so if i shoot like crap thursday, im definetly not entering. Do you live close by?

No I wish, I'm up in the Mtns. closer to Asheville. If I was, everyone who was goin with me has called it quits (again) Everyone wants the guns but seems no one wants to go shoot em past 100yds.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Sorry I didnt see this sooner, you need this.

Triad Tactical, Inc.*::*Data Books/Covers*::*Field Density Altitude Compensator

 

[JGorski]

45grs varget is an awful lot of powder for 175MKs, plus a 215 primer? For a 308? You probably are getting 2700+ with that load.

 

[Driftwood]

This seems like a silly question, but are you sure the adjustments on the scope you are using are actually .25 MOA? If ithey were just a little bit bigger than they are advertised, that could explain your results. When I run your numbers, at 2850 fps, you need 1.5 MOA to go from 100 yards to 200.

 

[DavidPatton]

did you make it out? if so, how did you do? we sighted in friday at a friends house about 15 miles from the range, and i was shooting like a pro lol. Today i shot the worst i ever have. Not sure if it was because it was my first match or what but i really choked

 

[Dynamic Response]

Alt 2880 temp 63 and 6 1/4 clicks at 200 equals 2710 velocity

 

[Dynamic Response]

I ran the numbers according to my ballistic computer. 2710 will be 1.6moa at 200 and 2850 will be 1.4moa at 200. You really need a target farther out to narrow it down. If I had to guess I would say its closer to 2700 then 2850.

 

[Driftwood]

Which ballistic program are you using? When I ran the numbers, (.308-175 SMK, 63 degrees @ 2880 feet) through "Ballistic" on my IPad, 2710 fps required 1.84 MOA to go from a 100 yard zero to a 200 yard zero. 2850 fps required 1.59 MOA to do the same thing. It wasn't until I entered 2900 fps that it was actually 1.5 MOA. We aren't really talking about a big difference at 200 yards, but I wouldn't have expected that much difference in theoretical ballistic calculations I have had pretty good luck with "Ballistic" in the past. It uses JBM as it core for calculations, it has always come very close to my real world results. I agree the OP would have better luck calculating his muzzle velocity by using dope over longer ranges. The differences in velocity will be more pronounced.