Help First Long Range Rifle

[Hogg0494]

Hi all.new to Snipers and long range shooting.looking for opinions for a 6.5 creedmore for shooting out to as far as 2k yds.went shooting with a buddy last weekend and got hooked.we were shooting out to 1k yds.this build has to stay in budget of $2500-3000 for gun and glass.i was shooting my buddy’s Tikka CTR in a manners T4a stock and a primary arms platinum 6-30 optic.about $3k total package.also looking at a Bergara HMR pro.all are welcome to voice opinions.used stuff is fine also but cannot exceed my budget.

 

[dirthead1]

Tikka CTR w/24” barrel, Burris xtr ii 4-20 or 5-25. You’ll also need to put a 20 moa rail on the tikka. You should be able to do all that for about $2500 if you shop around and use hide dealers. You can always swap stocks later or drop it in a chassis.

2k is a long way for a creedmoor.

 

[TexGlocker]

There’s a lot of nice rigs and good glass used in the classifieds on here. Keep your eye on them and it can save you quite a bit of cash if your patient.

 

[Holland375]

Tikka CTR w/24” barrel, Burris xtr ii 4-20 or 5-25. You’ll also need to put a 20 moa rail on the tikka. You should be able to do all that for about $2500 if you shop around and use hide dealers. You can always swap stocks later or drop it in a chassis.

2k is a long way for a creedmoor.

I would stay away from bergara. I have not been impressed with their actions. I have threaded a couple of their barrels and they have had low spots on the outside of the barrel when turned on the lathe. They could have been caused during polishing but it is not a good thing either way.

 

[Hogg0494]

Thanks for the info.

 

[roamin]

I'd get a CTR or Remington 5r and drop it in a Manners, XLR Carbon, XLR Element, KRG Whiskey 3, or KRG X-Ray slap a brake on it and top it with a Gen 2 Vortex Viper PST and I'd wait till Black Friday to make my move because you should be able to find most those items 10% off.

Edit 2k yards is well beyond supersonic range with 6.5cm if that's an absolute requirement for you you're gonna need to look into 300NM, or 338LM and you need to double or maybe triple your budget.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Do you have easy access to a 2k yard range?
How often do you think you intend to shoot that distance?
What size targets do you intend to shoot at that distance?
What "support" equipment do you already own that will assist you in shooting long distance?
--Weather monitoring equipment?
--Ballistic Programs?
--Chronograph?
--Etc Etc Etc
Do you intend to shoot factory ammo or reloads?
If reloads..what equipment do you already have for that?

Once you intend to reach past the 1 mile distance you are not and cannot have such limited budget..AND most importantly you will realize the rifle and scope are barely half the cost of what it takes in regards to reloading equipment and support equipment to effectively achieve that distance.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[SonicBurlap]

I've never had a problem with a Bergara and I own several. The actions on my Bergara's beat my friend's Tikka to pieces. I guess everyone has their preferences.

 

[Hogg0494]

Hi Thies,most of the time will be shooting 800-1200 yds.the range does have a 1760 and 2250 yd i would like to try if possible.
If my budget can get me to 1760 i would be happy.i would be using factory ammo.i picked the 6.5 for its ballistics and i have a bad shoulder from a car accident and cant handle big recoil.my 30-06 hunting rifle had to be replaced with a 6.5.i just purchased a chronograph.downloaded a few apps for charts.strelok pro,ballistic ae,shooter.i am new to long range shooting but have been a hunter for 35+ years so i do have some knowledge.

 

[bfglowkey]

Hogg- Depending on what style of rifle you want a very solid option is the Ruger Precision. If you want a more classic style or NON chassis then Tikka will serve you well. Remington lovers wouldn't be wrong to recommend a 700 and tout the aftermarket support and options. I went RPR and am very very happy with its performance. Comes with a 20 MOA rail already, brake and do it yourself barrel swapping with a few tools ( just did mine and wow they weren't kidding how simple it was and I am of modest ability with tools ) Tikkas chassis offering is a very serious rig as well.

 

[Jaiden]

I've never had a problem with a Bergara and I own several. The actions on my Bergara's beat my friend's Tikka to pieces. I guess everyone has their preferences.

In what way is the Bergara action better?

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

One size can never fit all...lots of great guns out there now, right out of the box. If it were me I'd buy a Ruger Precision Rifle and go Vortex or Athlon for glass.

VooDoo

 

[wade2big]

I just offered the OP first shot on a Tikka tac a1 in 6.5 creedmoor, vortex Razor gen 2 3-18x50 ebr2c mil reticle, seekins rings, and a knockoff bipod. Rifle has 20rds through it for break in and scope is in excellent condition. Waiting to see what he says before I offer it in the equipment exchange.

 

[dirthead1]

I just offered the OP first shot on a Tikka tac a1 in 6.5 creedmoor, vortex Razor gen 2 3-18x50 ebr2c mil reticle, seekins rings, and a knockoff bipod. Rifle has 20rds through it for break in and scope is in excellent condition. Waiting to see what he says before I offer it in the equipment exchange.

That would be an excellent setup!

 

[patriot07]

6.5 creedmoor will not be supersonic at 1760, at least not with most normal loads. Shooting that far requires a bit more firepower unless you really hot rod the 6.5.

The Tikka Tac A1 is a good rifle, but I'd definitely want something with more than 18x top end if I was planning on shooting to a mile or longer, and I'd want something other than 6.5. You really need to decide if you want something that's cheap and low recoil that can shoot to 1300/1400 yards or if you're set on the mile and willing to live with the cost and recoil associated with that. It's not a small decision, but it will drive what rifle you get (or it should IMHO).

 

[One1Bravo]

Take a look at the PVA John Hancock. It's a lot of rifle for the money. As for scopes, find one with a reputation for durability and tracking and pick the reticle you like best.

 

[408w]

The Tikka tac a1 is an awesome gun. That is what I would get if buying another Creedmoor and wanted a chassis rifle. If you want a traditional style stock the Tikka ctr is a great choice but the stock is not great, I would put it in a krg bravo. I have a Savage Lrp and like it a lot.

 

[wade2big]

6.5 creedmoor will not be supersonic at 1760, at least not with most normal loads. Shooting that far requires a bit more firepower unless you really hot rod the 6.5.

The Tikka Tac A1 is a good rifle, but I'd definitely want something with more than 18x top end if I was planning on shooting to a mile or longer, and I'd want something other than 6.5. You really need to decide if you want something that's cheap and low recoil that can shoot to 1300/1400 yards or if you're set on the mile and willing to live with the cost and recoil associated with that. It's not a small decision, but it will drive what rifle you get (or it should IMHO).

6.5 creedmoor is light for 2k yards. I disagree with 18X not having enough magnification for that range though. I can ring a 12” plate at 825 yards on 6x with absolutely no problem. If you can see your target then you can hit it. Dont let a fool convince you otherwise (not a jab at you.) More top end for a dedicated ELR rifle would be required of Course.in my climate seeing a target at 2k would be tough through the mirage on any magnification. Lol

 

[Codiekfx400]

Buy this rpr in 6 Creedmoor https://grabagun.com/ruger-72.html
Then change the barrel to 6.5 Creedmoor mount a Athlon Cronus BTR and install a PVA jetblast muzzle brake.

 

[Delicatessen]

Might want to consider either short action magnum or long action with swappable bolt heads if you truly want to reach 2k plus. Cheapest is savage but you could consider long action nucleus (could then eventually do something like a 28 Nosler to reach that far and 6.5x55 or similar for shorter ranges). I wouldn’t want that as my only rifle caliber though as it would tend to be more expensive to shoot.

 

[Delicatessen]

Or look at 284/280/280ai. My 284 can reach just to about 1800 supersonic reasonable prices for reloading.

 

[SonicBurlap]

In what way is the Bergara action better?

Maybe my friend just has a dud but his groups are consistently further apart at the 1.5 MOA mark or even further then mine, and he keeps having problems with delayed feeds. I shot it a few times and it did not run as smooth as either of my Bergaras. Now I know that most of the Tikka owners here are absolute fans and they love their Tikkas like I love my Bergaras but I can only base my Tikka experience on what I've personally seen and felt with my friend's rifle. I told him maybe he needs to contact customer service but he keeps tellin' me 'it's an o.k. rifle.' I've never heard a lot of complaints about Tikkas here but comparing what I've seen to what I own - I'll stick with my Bergaras. At one point before I saw my friend's rifle I was thinking about getting a Tikka and I'm not wanting to insult anyone, not out to defame a whole brand, maybe my friend just has a Monday gun but since gun ownership is based on personal preference and anyone has the right to put their money into the guns they prefer as it should be, I prefer to give my money to Bergara, based upon my personal experience with Tikka, and based upon the lower price point of magazines.

 

[TexasUplander]

6.5 Creed is the wrong tool for that job

 

[patriot07]

6.5 creedmoor is light for 2k yards. I disagree with 18X not having enough magnification for that range though. I can ring a 12” plate at 825 yards on 6x with absolutely no problem. If you can see your target then you can hit it. Dont let a fool convince you otherwise (not a jab at you.) More top end for a dedicated ELR rifle would be required of Course.in my climate seeing a target at 2k would be tough through the mirage on any magnification. Lol

My point wasn't that you can't hit targets with lower mag, but that 18x isn't really what I would recommend when someone is posting about wanting to reach out past a mile.

I used an SWFA 16x for a long time and I run an SWFA 5-20 HD right now and have gone to 1,100 without any issues, but I'd much prefer something like a 7-35 ATACR or even a Cronus/Stryker with 29x/30x top end for reaching out to 1760 and beyond. JMHO. I'm sure 25x would be fine too, but by the time you get down to 18x, looking at 1 MOA and smaller targets at long range becomes a bit more of a challenge than it needs to be.

 

[wade2big]

My point wasn't that you can't hit targets with lower mag, but that 18x isn't really what I would recommend when someone is posting about wanting to reach out past a mile.

I used an SWFA 16x for a long time and I run an SWFA 5-20 HD right now and have gone to 1,100 without any issues, but I'd much prefer something like a 7-35 ATACR or even a Cronus/Stryker with 29x/30x top end for reaching out to 1760 and beyond. JMHO. I'm sure 25x would be fine too, but by the time you get down to 18x, looking at 1 MOA and smaller targets at long range becomes a bit more of a challenge than it needs to be.

I agree. The Op just said mainly shooting 800-1200 yds. The 2k yards is secondary to him.

 

[patriot07]

I agree. The Op just said mainly shooting 800-1200 yds. The 2k yards is secondary to him.

That goes back to the last sentence of my first post then - he needs to decide if he wants to go to 2k yards or not. A rig for 2k yards is considerably different than one set up for 800-1200, both in terms of caliber and glass.

 

[b6graham]

That goes back to the last sentence of my first post then - he needs to decide if he wants to go to 2k yards or not. A rig for 2k yards is considerably different than one set up for 800-1200, both in terms of caliber and glass.

No reason you cant poke at 2000 with a 6.5 and an 18x scope. But you're not gonna spend the majority of your time there and I think the OP is aware of that

 

[Hogg0494]

Appreciate the info so far guys.helping me make the right decision.alot on the 6.5 having issues on ringing steel at 1760-2k.would a 308 be better for what i am trying to do.i definately want a traditional style rifle over a chassis.trying to hit 2k would not happen often but would like to try.100-1000 would be my main shooting

 

[CJS-6.5]

308 is less ballistically capable of hitting at 2k then a 6.5. You are going to need a 6.5 or 7mm magnum to get there supersonic.

 

[CJS-6.5]

A 6.5 Prc pushing the 147 eldm at 3100 still goes subsonic before 2k.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

My suggestion is to stop focusing on a distance that will be less than 50% of your range time and focus on the REAL distances you will be shooting.
Stop chasing a distance and start chasing knowledge learned at shooting your real distances. After that you will know what you need and do not need to reach your "every once in awhile distance".
Contractors do not carry around a 16lb sledge hammer when they will be working with roofing nails

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Delicatessen]

You could always try 6.5 addiction but realistically you need magnum probably 7mm (7ss, 7saum or better yet long action magnum like 28 Nosler to get there). 1760 can be done reasonably with high bc long action non magnum 7mm but that’s near the end of range. Obviously larger 30/338 Norma/Lapua are more purpose built for that but crazy expensive and pretty heavy recoil. That’s why I strongly suggest a switchblade bolt head action if you really want to do both. You can shoot anything out there and try but not the best odds for things like 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor unless you go for the really expensive bullets that go through transonic region better.

 

[Hogg0494]

I was looking at 28 nosler but dont know much about them.what option rifles in the $155 range in 28 nosler do i have

 

[ranger3]

I would stay away from bergara. I have not been impressed with their actions. I have threaded a couple of their barrels and they have had low spots on the outside of the barrel when turned on the lathe. They could have been caused during polishing but it is not a good thing either way.

I had two Bergeras neither were accurate, will never buy another

 

[ranger3]

I would agree with the cals. Mentioned. There are many factory rifles that will do that. Try that first to give you the feel and you can always upgrade later. I.e. I have a factory Savage LRP that shoots factory 6.5 ammo in the .3's. That will do it and we'll within the price range you're looking at. Much better to get the scope right on first try.

 

[Delicatessen]

I would only add 28 Nosler to another option as it like most magnums is about double the powder cost and quicker barrel wear. I am assuming a typo when you say $155. Pva does barrels in 28 Nosler for appropriate actions is you mean $1500-1600, just look for a used tl3 or possibly nucleus in long action could be built right around 1800 but then you could switch down to something more affordable for shorter ranges...or go savage long action for less but you will be way above $200, probably up around 1000-1200

 

[CJS-6.5]

I was looking at 28 nosler but dont know much about them.what option rifles in the $155 range in 28 nosler do i have

If you find a 28 Nosler for $155 please let me know.

 

[Bemoni]

Keep it simple! Start low and cheap with a RPR or CTR in .260 Rem or 6,5 Creed with a decent piece of glass on the top and wear out the barrel on practice.
When you have learned the fundamentals in LR shooting, you can move on to the advanced stuff.
If you not are a reloader, ammo price will be a matter of concern and for that matter alone, you should stay with a mainstream caliber.

 

[Hogg0494]

Oops. Yes i meant $1500. lol great info guys.looks like i will get a CTR or pick up something used here.stick to the 1k and under and decide at a later date if i want to step out further.thanks for pointing the direction

 

[SonicBurlap]

If you are wanting to reliably do 2,000 yard shots on a regular basis you should invest in a .300 Win Mag, or a .338 with a decent muzzle brake and be prepared for the ouch factor because the recoil from those will be significantly more than the 6.5 Creedmoor, and the ammo also will have more of an ouch price factor. If you can be happy with ranges from 600 to 1,200 yards and an occasional 1,400 yard shot than pick the 6.5 Creedmoor. The .308 goes subsonic at about 1,100 yards while the 6.5CM will remain stable and beginn slipping out of supersonic velocity at around 1,300 yards. According to USSOCOm: '6.5 Creedmoor doubles snipers’ hit probability at 1,000 meters, increases effective range by at least a third, increases energy on target by 50%, reduces the effect of wind by 40%, and has at least 30% less recoil. It is reported they will begin converting their .308 Win MK110A1 and Mk20 rifles to 6.5 CM in 2019.' I used a .308 in the service and it served me well, I also injured my shoulder in the service and I do appreciate the lesser recoil of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the increase in stability and ease of follow through on target, meaning I can observe the impact without being obstructed by recoil movement, especially with a good muzzle brake. Ask your local gunshop if they'll let you test fire any of your potential purchases. If you find a rifle you like within your budget than go with it regardless what others tell you. Rifles are like cars, everyone has a personal favorite, some people swear on Sako, others like their Browning, there are a lot of Tikka fans, I like my Bergara HMR because it is reliably a sub-MOA gun for me. If it works for you and you keep hitting it ain't stupid. By the way, don't make your glass an afterthought, if you get a starter rifle and eventually you replace it with a better one at least you'll already have the glass to match it, and also get a quality base and rings. Keep records and find out which ammo your rifle likes then stick with it. If you don't keep a log you are starting from scratch every time without hope for improvement Sorry didn't mean for this to get so long, just hope this helps.

 

[CJS-6.5]

300 win is a stretch to 2k. I had to push the envelope to get it to a mile with total reliability. It's a great caliber but as every caliber has its limits.

 

[Hogg0494]

Very informative sonicburlap.thanks.think i am gonna go 6.5 tikka with good glass.i hurt my shoulder in a car accident years ago and 308 with a limbsaver and brake is about as much as it can take

 

[b6graham]

Very informative sonicburlap.thanks.think i am gonna go 6.5 tikka with good glass.i hurt my shoulder in a car accident years ago and 308 with a limbsaver and brake is about as much as it can take

If you are wanting to reliably do 2,000 yard shots on a regular basis you should invest in a .300 Win Mag, or a .338 with a decent muzzle brake and be prepared for the ouch factor because the recoil from those will be significantly more than the 6.5 Creedmoor, and the ammo also will have more of an ouch price factor. If you can be happy with ranges from 600 to 1,200 yards and an occasional 1,400 yard shot than pick the 6.5 Creedmoor. The .308 goes subsonic at about 1,100 yards while the 6.5CM will remain stable and beginn slipping out of supersonic velocity at around 1,300 yards. According to USSOCOm: '6.5 Creedmoor doubles snipers’ hit probability at 1,000 meters, increases effective range by at least a third, increases energy on target by 50%, reduces the effect of wind by 40%, and has at least 30% less recoil. It is reported they will begin converting their .308 Win MK110A1 and Mk20 rifles to 6.5 CM in 2019.' I used a .308 in the service and it served me well, I also injured my shoulder in the service and I do appreciate the lesser recoil of the 6.5 Creedmoor and the increase in stability and ease of follow through on target, meaning I can observe the impact without being obstructed by recoil movement, especially with a good muzzle brake. Ask your local gunshop if they'll let you test fire any of your potential purchases. If you find a rifle you like within your budget than go with it regardless what others tell you. Rifles are like cars, everyone has a personal favorite, some people swear on Sako, others like their Browning, there are a lot of Tikka fans, I like my Bergara HMR because it is reliably a sub-MOA gun for me. If it works for you and you keep hitting it ain't stupid. By the way, don't make your glass an afterthought, if you get a starter rifle and eventually you replace it with a better one at least you'll already have the glass to match it, and also get a quality base and rings. Keep records and find out which ammo your rifle likes then stick with it. If you don't keep a log you are starting from scratch every time without hope for improvement Sorry didn't mean for this to get so long, just hope this helps.

paragraphs...use them

Very informative sonicburlap.thanks.think i am gonna go 6.5 tikka with good glass.i hurt my shoulder in a car accident years ago and 308 with a limbsaver and brake is about as much as it can take

amazingly...this was stated in one of your posts...and no one read it it seems

 

[CJS-6.5]

Well...shooting 2k with a bad shoulder will require some sacrifices.

 

[CJS-6.5]

Also if you are shooting prone it doesn't matter as much. I tore my rotator cuff several times from heavy benching and shooting prone I use my collarbone.

 

[patriot07]

No reason you cant poke at 2000 with a 6.5 and an 18x scope. But you're not gonna spend the majority of your time there and I think the OP is aware of that

You can do it with a 22 and iron sights if you want, but it's the wrong tool for the job.

 

[CJS-6.5]

You can do it with a 22 and iron sights if you want, but it's the wrong tool for the job.

That's funny right there. It's called exercise.

 

[stello1001]

If a 22 cal (224 valkyrie) can make it to 1760 I don't see why a 6.5 cannot get to 2000. It may not be consistent or highly predictable but you can still try just for the heck of it. Specially if main focus will be within 1200 yards, then just trying to stretch out to 2K with a 6.5 might be fun. Even if you don't get hits the first time but at least you try!

 

[Nik S]

Hogg, consider adding this. https://www.riflesonly.com/rifles-only-precision-rifle-volume-1-fundamentals

Possibly the best long range gear investment a person could make.

 

[Hogg0494]

Tks