Help me better understand free floating dies

[Gregor.Samsa]

So I think I understand the overarching goal of free floating dies. This allows a little wiggle room to compensate for misalignment between the press, shell holder, cartridge and die. Correct?
I’ve seen people use an O ring under the die lock ring on single stage presses. Seems to make sense conceptually. I’m not sure how you could account for repeatable measurements when removing and replacing dies. How much compression is usually applied to the O ring?
Now here is where I’m getting confused; I’m looking at Dillon 550 toolheads and see the Whidden free floating version along with the UniqueTek clam and the locking die rings pinned to the head. In my mind, this seems to be the exact opposite of free floating. The tool head is clamped to The press to prevent movement and the dies are pinned in place. What is actually going on here? Does anyone have first hand experience On the 550 with these pieces improving concentricity etc. ? Thanks in advance for the knowledge.

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

Damn, did I stink up the forum with this question lol. I'm ore interested in understanding how the dillon free floating toolheads with the pinned lock rings and clams are actually free floating and if they have a measurable impact on load precision. thanks

 

[spife7980]

 

[Gustav7]

So I think I understand the overarching goal of free floating dies. This allows a little wiggle room to compensate for misalignment between the press, shell holder, cartridge and die. Correct?
I’ve seen people use an O ring under the die lock ring on single stage presses. Seems to make sense conceptually. I’m not sure how you could account for repeatable measurements when removing and replacing dies. How much compression is usually applied to the O ring?
Now here is where I’m getting confused; I’m looking at Dillon 550 toolheads and see the Whidden free floating version along with the UniqueTek clam and the locking die rings pinned to the head. In my mind, this seems to be the exact opposite of free floating. The tool head is clamped to The press to prevent movement and the dies are pinned in place. What is actually going on here? Does anyone have first hand experience On the 550 with these pieces improving concentricity etc. ? Thanks in advance for the knowledge.

I use Armanov clamped toolheads w/ floating dies on my 550..and like them so far. No hard data yet, but initially it appears that my bullet seating consistency did improve.

To clarify.... the Whidden/Uniquetek toolheads ONLY clamp the toolhead... the dies are not pinned, they have a pin through the lock ring, but the lock ring is not tightened down, its floating about one rotation up from the toolhead.

So heres the idea with the Whidden/Uniquetek or Armanov setup:
1.) You put cases in all position on the shellplate of your 550. With the dies set in place and the toolhead NOT clamped yet, you run the ram up and keep it up. All 4 cases make the toolhead to come to a rest at a certain position...you clamp the toolhead at this position. The idea being when there are cases in all 4 positions, you want to lock the toolhead to this position so you eliminate the forces on the toolhead each time you run the ram.
2.) Now that you have the toolhead clamped in to a repeatable position, you free float the dies by running a pin through the die lock ring while the the die lock ring is floating one rotation above the toolhead. This allows very minor movement of the dies to self center and align properly, so the case and the die work freely together to get you better consistency, I.e. - no abnormal force pushing case/die/toolhead in the wrong direction or against the position of another case position.

The "issue" from Dillon standard toolheads that led to designs like this are:
1.) The stock toolhead is sort of loose fitting, which helps when making all different kinds of ammo, and the dies are locked down. For precision rounds, its sort of backwords... Each case when it enters the die will impart forces on the toolhead, whichever toolhead imparts the most force wins and the toolhead shifts to that position more. The other positions are not off center/balance, but their die is locked into place so where the toolhead goes, the die goes, creating inconsistency.
2.) the clamped toolhead/floating die clamps the toolhead in the most "liked" position according the imparted forces by the case positions, but allows the dies to move slightly to help counter those forces talked about in number 1.

Does it work?? I'm sure it does for some... and I'm sure it may not make a difference for others. Thats up to the reloader to decide for themselves.

I'll show you what I mean with the pics below.

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

That’s an excellent explaination and makes perfects sense. Thank you for taking the time to spell this out!

 

[OLD308]

I use the Whidden/Uniquetech clapping/pinned ring system. I keep a 21st Century concentricity gage on the bench for when some one ask about it. I swear I should buy stock in Dillon for all the 550s I’ve sold.

 

[Gustav7]

I use the Whidden/Uniquetech clapping/pinned ring system. I keep a 21st Century concentricity gage on the bench for when some one ask about it. I swear I should buy stock in Dillon for all the 550s I’ve sold.

So I take it you like them? haha... I would buy another 550 in a heartbeat but I think I'm going to a 750 for the next press. I shoot too much 9mm and .38 to not have a quicker press.

 

[OLD308]

No B.S., ordering 02 latter today for a guy. Between the solo kit, floating/clamping heads, and general Dillion support, no need for anything else.

 

[Gustav7]

No B.S., ordering 02 latter today for a guy. Between the solo kit, floating/clamping heads, and general Dillion support, no need for anything else.

And theres no shortage of "Dillons can't/won't make precision ammo" comments on here lol...

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

No B.S., ordering 02 latter today for a guy. Between the solo kit, floating/clamping heads, and general Dillion support, no need for anything else.

Pardon the ignorance, what is the solo kit? thanks

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

never mind googled it.

 

[Gustav7]

never mind googled it.

do you have a 550 already and interested in the floating tool heads? or looking at getting a 550?

I would also recommend looking at the Armanov Toolheads. Same idea, but you can float all 4 die positions and instead of pins they have little screws/bolts

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

do you have a 550 already and interested in the floating tool heads? or looking at getting a 550?

I would also recommend looking at the Armanov Toolheads. Same idea, but you can float all 4 die positions and instead of pins they have little screws/bolts

I just purchased a 550 and getting my ducks in a row. Plan on loadin bulk plinking 9mm, 45acp, 223 and 6.8 spc. Looking to load 6.5cm and 308 for precision down the road. I'm currently using a rock chucker and it works great for low volume precision, but if the 550 can load to the same quality and better with more efficiency I'm all in. I'll check out the Armanov website. Thank you