Rifle Scopes Help me choose a spotting scope

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Hurricane56

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Minuteman
May 3, 2008
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New Haven, CT
#1
Hi All,

Lately I've really been feeling the need to acquire a mid to high-end spotting scope. After researching many brands and different types, I'm looking toward Nikon, Zeiss, and Kowa.

The scope will mainly be used for taking to the range (200yds) and occasional birding. My upper shelf budget is around $1700, please keep in mind that I'm considering acquiring a used Zeiss that may fall into this category.

I would appreciate any insights on the models I've listed below, or please feel free to suggest others that may fit my needs.

Nikon Fieldscope 25-75x82 ED:
They seem to have a solid following with great reviews. Does anybody know what kind of eye relief this scope's zoom eyepiece has?

Zeiss Victory Diascope 85mm or 65mm:
Looks like very high quality glass and well designed focus and eyepiece. Any downsides to these models?

Kowa TSN-771:
Also looks like these scopes have been redesigned recently. This is the only scope of the following I have seen in person. Can anybody give a good comparison between this scope and the higher-end TSN-773 with Promiar glass?

Thanks for all your help and input!
 
#4
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

Sorry, here.
Vortex Razor HD 20-60x85 Spotting Scope
razor%20hd.jpg
 
#7
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I have the Nikon fieldscope 25x75x82 and it is truly a fantastic scope. I use it at 30x at 200yds to see 22lr bullet holes on splatter targets and can see bullet holes not on splatter targets at around 35x to 45x. The scope does not lose brightness at the higher magnifications. The eye relieve is about the only negative especially if you wear glasses. The beauty of it is that it has interchangeable lenses that you can purchase if you desire. You can buy a fix power 50x wide angle lens that greatly improves eye relief. I use mine for digiscoping as well. I am able to focus at 25 yds at lowest setting clearly. You can definately see bullet holes at 300 yds which is the farthest I have used to see 30-06 strikes.
 
#10
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

Deeno,

I bought Skyline 20-60ED and promptly sent it back! Not in the same league as the higher end scopes.

To the OP...Look into the Pentax PF 80 or 100.I think them the best value for the $.If you want the best... I liked the Kowa Prominars.I think they are tops in clarity and resolution..brilliant and vivid.You would have to go used of course to get one in your price range.

Steve
 
#11
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I would put in a vote for the Pentax 80mm ED as well. I have this scope, looked through Leica and Swarovski and can't see the difference for the price difference. A unit can be had for $1K with a variable eyepiece and you could buy two fixed eyepieces for your budget.
A fella at the range was asking me to help him spot his 400yd shots, weather was good; it was no problem with 6mm bullets.
 
#12
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I have the Nikon fieldscope III ED 60mm, but prefer the fixed eyepiece, mine is a 24X. In my opinion, higher mag simply degrades the image, in any scope. I have never thought i needed any more magnifaction. I think the nikon stands up very well against the top brands, and flat kicked the shit out of the Kowa's of five years ago, including the 80mm's. I know they have some new models that I know nothing about.

My nikon has proved to be robust as well. It's been dropped a few times and two years ago it fell face first into some gravel. It has a pitted objective but it sees like it always has. Money well spent.
 
#14
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

Because of where I work I have had a chance to sample several different manufacturers spotters. For mirage, digi-scopping, spotting targets or critters at extended ranges, I have found the Swarovski and Zeiss to be phenomenal. If weight isn't an issue I would go with an 85 over a 65 also. Good luck!
 
#15
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I agree with some of the posters here that the Pentax spotting scopes are great for the price. Look here:

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/pentax.pl?page=pf80ed
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/pentax.pl?page=pentaxpf100ed
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/pentax.pl?page=pf65edii

I have the PF65 ED II and it is a high quality optic. One thing unique about the Pentax is that its eyepiece size is standardized to eyepieces for telescopes. That means you have all sorts of available, high quality, inexpensive eyepieces out there to choose from (besides Pentax eyepieces). That is a very desirable feature. Pentax has a great "worry free" warranty as well if needed. Lifetime free repair/replace even if it was the owners fault ($20 s/h charge).

Please check them out.
 
#16
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

How about the Leupold Mk-4 tactical spotting scope ? Someone offers a PVS-14 adapter . You could use it to observe nocturnals - like owls . Predators as well ... I think a camera adapter is also available ...
 
#17
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

Don't forget to include money in your budget for a decent case (if your scope doesn't come with one) and a tripod (Bogen/Manfrotto, etc.).

That said, I faced the same decision a few years ago and I decided on the Pentax PF 80ED-A (the angled version of Pentax's 80mm spotter). I got mine with a 20-60x zoom, then picked up a fixed, wide angle 35x, and a Bogen 055XPRO tripod and head (don't recall the exact head off the top of my...head). It is an excellent scope and one that I have personally used for wildlife/bird observation, and range/field spotting at distances MUCH greater than your stated range of 200-300yds. Total spend on the scope, lenses, tripod was approx. $1400.
 
#18
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone looking for spotter:

One great option is a Konuspot 80. It's 90-95% the scope the Kowas are, at about $200. I did a LOT of hands on research with this, and was fully willing to spend for the Kowa.

Jim Owens has a good description of it here:

http://www.jarheadtop.com/KONUS.htm

http://www.jarheadtop.com/Testimonials_Scopes.htm

I hit it with a nice coat of Krylon Ultra Matte (black) and was good to go. It had all the features I wanted as well- angled eyepiece, rotatable junction ring, etc. Matched it with one of the Bogen Manfrottos that goes from 6' to fully flat, and couldn't be happier. I use it out to 600 for highpower and intend to take it further.

I found it for under $200 on sale from B&H Photovideo.

Good luck,
BB
 
#20
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

The specs on the model you mention has about 3/4" eye relief. I have a different model and it only has 1/2". With mine I take off my glasses, but then I want the best vision possible. I could use my glasses, but it's my preference to use without glasses. You can adjust very easy for the change. With your eyepiece that has 1/4" more, using glasses should be fine.

That's a perfect zoom eyepiece you have indicated. About 20-60x on the PF-80.

The specs:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/20...#specifications

Ilya Koshkin which is kinda of a optics guru highly recommends the Pentax spotters.

OBTW Pentax spotter link:
http://www.pentaxsportoptics.com/#section=Birding&subSection=SpottingScopes&product=0
 
#21
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W.C.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Pentax scopes look like a great set-up which were previously unknown to me.

Does anybody have any opinions on the eye relief of their zoom eyepieces? I wear glasses most days I go to the range.

Specifically this model:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/203119-USA/Pentax_70509_SMC_8_24mm_Zoom_Eyepiece.html </div></div>

W.C. - I wear eyeglasses sometimes and the Pentax spotter eyepieces are ALL excellent, including the Zoom eyepiece. The one you linked to is the zoom eyepiece that I have for mine that I wear glasses while using. Check out this link...it is a great eyepiece for your purposes, offering 20mm of eye relief:

http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/pentax.pl?page=pentaxwaterproofzoom

Also, if you buy a Pentax, try to do business with Doug at CameralandNY. Doug is good people and a supporter here on the forum. He also offers highly competitive pricing for members here.
 
#23
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I was able to do a side by side with a pentax pf65 ed II, a swaro 65 non-ed, a kowa 77 prominar, and the non-ed 60 ish kowa. IMO the pentax was not in the same league as the others. To my eyes, the swaro offered the best resolution, which is really what matters for shooters who are trying to resolve bullet holes. You can pick up a Swaro in your price range.

Disclaimer- I am not an optics expert.

WC- did you read the spotting scope shootout article that I posted a link to?
If not, you should.

BTW- all of the spotters listed above were clear and would have been adequate.
 
#24
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I totally agree that the PF65 ED II is not in the same league as the scopes you mentioned. If you step up to the PF80 or PF100 that would be a different story though. But the Pentax PF65 ED II at $650 with eyepiece it performs admirably compared to those scopes which cost 2-3x more. Where the little Pentax PF65 ED II shines is with the use of fixed power Pentax XW series of eyepieces. Fixed power eyepieces will generally always perform better than zoom eyepieces. Fixed power will typically provide the most eye relief as well.

In the end, cost some times drives us to compromising on our selections. But as many people know there are some very good values out there on the market. It's nice to have a variety of choices.

I have been very pleased with Pentax optics in general. I just recently sold all my pro Nikon 35mm camera equipment. I then selected Pentax 35mm equipment. A big decision of mine was going to prime fixed lens versus zooms. I am more of a fan of faster fixed focal length lens. Zooms are just too big of a compromise, although very convenient. Pentax offers a better line of fixed lens which are smaller, lighter, of high quality and affordable.

That being said, I am also a Leica whore. I love their binos and I have a few cameras as well. Plus I am spoiled with my S&B scope as well.
 
#25
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dtac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was able to do a side by side with a pentax pf65 ed II, a swaro 65 non-ed, a kowa 77 prominar, and the non-ed 60 ish kowa. IMO the pentax was not in the same league as the others. To my eyes, the swaro offered the best resolution, which is really what matters for shooters who are trying to resolve bullet holes. You can pick up a Swaro in your price range.

Disclaimer- I am not an optics expert.

WC- did you read the spotting scope shootout article that I posted a link to?
If not, you should.

BTW- all of the spotters listed above were clear and would have been adequate. </div></div>

Dtac, thanks for the links and review, it was very informative. It doesn't surprise me that the Kowa TSN-883 came out first, I sampled their Promiar glass with another range member's scope, it was very impressive.

It seems like I'm leaning toward a Zeiss Diascope 85mm, however having a wide array of eyepieces that can be adapted with the Pentax spotters looks promising.
 
#26
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

very informative thread here guys, I too am leaning towrds the pentax after the discussion here. Now I have to find where I can take a gander at one !
 
#27
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

CanPopper, excellent digividing. One day I'll set my point and shoot up to my PF80 and shoot live feed of me paper punching. I always thought that would be fun.
What is the focal length of the PF100? Thanks!

deeno360, I bought my set up from Doug at Cameraland NY. He's a pretty stellar guy. I won't put words in his mouth, but if you don't like what you got he's pretty good at taking it back and finding something you will like. He will also walk you through what your needs are: digiscope, hunting, range work, etc.
 
#28
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

The Pentax seems like a very packable spotter. Does anyone offer a range finding reticle eyepiece that will fit the unit? Wouldn't it be nice if a company offered eyepiece etching of your existing eyepieces.
 
#29
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

That would be nice. Since the Pentax has the 1.25" barrel you can start your shopping now. Google it, Bing it, Ask it, then, let me know what you find.
There's going to be thousands of eyepieces out there, but most are astronomical related, so very hard find I'd guess to get one with a ranging reticle.
Good luck!
 
#30
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

Heh...I have tons of digivideos of me shooting targets at long range. The focal length of the PF100ED is 630.

Some of the cooler setups I have for my Pentax is I run it in bino mode with a binoviewer and I have the Ethos 100 degree FOV eyepiece for it.
 
#33
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

The Pentax XW line produces a slightly "warmer" color as you can see from my dove video. The Ethos is more color neutral.

In terms of resolution and edge to edge clarity, the Ethos is freaking incredible; bright fine detail edge to edge. One slight catch is the the way it provides the 100 degree field. The eye lens is concave so you stick your eyeball into a parabolic cup. Pentax is easier to position the eye though at the trade off of less raw awesomeness (it's still awesome).
 
#36
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

Kowa hands down
I have a 66X something with the 25X long eye relief eye piece
223 holes At 200 some times 300
Wife has spotted 30 cal in white @ 550
I look through a Ziess 20 X 60 last week............Not impressed
 
#37
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I have a Zeiss, Swaro,Nikon field,and a busnell. I heard the Konus is good but mine broke getting it out of the box. The Zeiss and the Swaro are great. I bought the Swaro for 1600. Both are great optics. If just spotting any will do. If looking the glass all day then buy the best you can afford.
 
#38
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

W.C. - I choose the Kowa TSN663 ED based on the recommendation of a well-known instructor here in Virginia who has pretty good experience with such things; he told me it's the same one he uses. Might check one out and weigh it against your other choices, and good luck.

-Wes
 
#39
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I've had a few, and all of them are just runners up to the Zeiss 85. Buy once, cry once. I've got the Zeiss 85 and it is incredible. Look through all the others and then the Zeiss. No contest.
 
#41
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I voted for the Kowa TSN771.
I went through this same exercise last Fall.
I bought a Konus and promptly sent it back.
I bought the new Bushnell everyone was raving about and promptly sent it back.
I bit the bullet and bought the Vortex Razor HD 20-60x85 Spotting Scope and I kept it. My litmus test for all spotters was to view the golf course snack hut across the valley at ~2500 yds. It has amazing glass. I could clearly see the bottles in the cooler inside the hut. I use it at 50yds with my 22lr rifle all the way out to 1000yds with my 308. It is a very good value for the money imo.
 
#42
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had a few, and all of them are just runners up to the Zeiss 85. Buy once, cry once. I've got the Zeiss 85 and it is incredible. Look through all the others and then the Zeiss. No contest. </div></div>

I also own the Zeiss 85, have looked thru quite a few other mid/high end spotters and the only one I thought compared was the Leica 77 APO, and while the clarity seemed on par with the Zeiss, I have to give a slight edge to better colors (to my eye) to the Leica.

Just my .02
 
#43
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

Of the four mentioned, the 85mm Zeiss probably has the best performance from what I've read in the past about the others. You can go with the 65mm version to save money, it's what I bought. If money is no object, go for the Hensoldt!
 
#44
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911.it</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I voted for the Kowa TSN771.
I went through this same exercise last Fall.
I bought a Konus and promptly sent it back.
I bought the new Bushnell everyone was raving about and promptly sent it back.
I bit the bullet and bought the Vortex Razor HD 20-60x85 Spotting Scope and I kept it. My litmus test for all spotters was to view the golf course snack hut across the valley at ~2500 yds. It has amazing glass. I could clearly see the bottles in the cooler inside the hut. I use it at 50yds with my 22lr rifle all the way out to 1000yds with my 308. It is a very good value for the money imo.
</div></div>

1911,
Did you get a chance to compare your TSN-771 to the 773/774 with Promiar glass? Just wondering if its worth the extra money for the enhanced lenses?
 
#45
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I never said I had the Kowa. You need to compare the Kowa TSN 883 at $2900 including the 20-60x eyepiece, plus case to the Vortex at $1500. If I wasn't so impressed with the Vortex I might have spent the extra $1400+ for the Kowa.

After looking through the Vortex I found it hard to imagine that the Kowa would be $1400 better so I kept the Vortex. My process was to research, buy a scope in incremental $ amounts, try it out, and keep it if I was happy with quality, features, value, etc. I stopped at the Vortex which I purchased from Cameraland and I continue to be extremely happy with it.
 
#46
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I am looking to get a spotter and was willing to drop the coin for Kowa or Swarovski, but I am leaning toward the Vortex Razor as well. It just sounds too good for the price. I know it may not be as good as Kowa's or Swarovki's HD glass but has anyone compared these side by side?
 
#48
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

I run a Zeiss 85 . Use to use a Leupld Gold ring and my shooting buddy runs a Swarovski ATS80 . We are hard pressed to tell the difference between the Swaro and Zeiss

If I were to do it all over again, I would opt for the Zeiss 65. The 85 is freaking huge . Great for the range but too bulky to pack about sheep hunting etc . Looked through a Zeiss 65 at range and difference compared to my 85 not readily apparent ( I'm sure in non ideal conditions the 85 would have a slight edge )

I also have a astronomy eyepiece for Zeiss ( fixed mag ) . Amazingly sharp

My advice is don't skimp on your tripod and head. Buy a good Manfotto ( pro style ) / Gitzo

I am currenty running a Manfrotto geared head. Its the only way to go when you are panning between different targets at the range. Great when you are running higher mag as well

ZeissSpotter.jpg
 
#49
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trg42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run a Zeiss 85 . Use to use a Leupld Gold ring and my shooting buddy runs a Swarovski ATS80 . We are hard pressed to tell the difference between the Swaro and Zeiss

If I were to do it all over again, I would opt for the Zeiss 65. The 85 is freaking huge . Great for the range but too bulky to pack about sheep hunting etc . Looked through a Zeiss 65 at range and difference compared to my 85 not readily apparent ( I'm sure in non ideal conditions the 85 would have a slight edge )

I also have a astronomy eyepiece for Zeiss ( fixed mag ) . Amazingly sharp

My advice is don't skimp on your tripod and head. Buy a good Manfotto ( pro style ) / Gitzo

I am currenty running a Manfrotto geared head. Its the only way to go when you are panning between different targets at the range. Great when you are running higher mag as well

ZeissSpotter.jpg


</div></div>

Impressive piece of glass you got there. Have you compared it to a Vortex HD or Kowa TSN-883?
 
#50
Re: Help me choose a spotting scope

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911.it</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After looking through the Vortex I found it hard to imagine that the Kowa would be $1400 better so I kept the Vortex. My process was to research, buy a scope in incremental $ amounts, try it out, and keep it if I was happy with quality, features, value, etc. I stopped at the Vortex which I purchased from Cameraland and I continue to be extremely happy with it.
</div></div>

A couple thru the scope pics of the Vortex would be greatly appreciated. I am guessing the range reticle(which I'd prefer) is the only package available, yet it appears as an option in the "Tactical Brochure", can you confirm.
 
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