Range Report Help me pick a 6mm. BR, BRA, GT, XC

[Darkside-Six]

Well I’m a first time 6mm shooter as of about 8 months ago and I chose the 6GT. The biggest reason for me was barrel life, I’ve never cared to much about “speed” as I tend to run a slower load with less pressure. I figured if it can get anywhere near the 3000 rounds on it I’ll be happy and I know of a few shooters right now with over 2k and zero issues. Yes Lapua brass is preferred but I don’t mind using Hornady as long as my brass prep is good I’ve never had any issues. I use AICS and accurate mags and have had zero feeding issues.
The cartridge is stupid easy to load for, and has been very accurate.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Well I’m a first time 6mm shooter as of about 8 months ago and I chose the 6GT. The biggest reason for me was barrel life, I’ve never cared to much about “speed” as I tend to run a slower load with less pressure. I figured if it can get anywhere near the 3000 rounds on it I’ll be happy and I know of a few shooters right now with over 2k and zero issues. Yes Lapua brass is preferred but I don’t mind using Hornady as long as my brass prep is good I’ve never had any issues. I use AICS and accurate mags and have had zero feeding issues.
The cartridge is stupid easy to load for, and has been very accurate.

If the gt was getting anywhere near 3k/barrel, guys would be screaming it off the mountain tops. I’d expect same as dasher and such, 2k on average. Not a knock on the gt, just and observation as it’s been out long enough for barrels to be burning out.

 

[kthomas]

Well I’m a first time 6mm shooter as of about 8 months ago and I chose the 6GT. The biggest reason for me was barrel life, I’ve never cared to much about “speed” as I tend to run a slower load with less pressure. I figured if it can get anywhere near the 3000 rounds on it I’ll be happy and I know of a few shooters right now with over 2k and zero issues. Yes Lapua brass is preferred but I don’t mind using Hornady as long as my brass prep is good I’ve never had any issues. I use AICS and accurate mags and have had zero feeding issues.
The cartridge is stupid easy to load for, and has been very accurate.

I could be mistaken, but ~3,000 rounds sounds optimistic with the 6GT. Personally I think people will be lucky to get close to 2,500 rounds, but admittedly I haven't been following this cartridge closely lately. Perhaps with your lower pressure loads you will get there, I would be curious to hear what you end up with for barrel life.

I think for those that value barrel life, it would be really hard to beat 6BR with something like a 28" barrel.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I could be mistaken, but ~3,000 rounds sounds optimistic with the 6GT. Personally I think people will be lucky to get close to 2,500 rounds, but admittedly I haven't been following this cartridge closely lately. Perhaps with your lower pressure loads you will get there, I would be curious to hear what you end up with for barrel life.

I think for those that value barrel life, it would be really hard to beat 6BR with something like a 28" barrel.

yeah i'll be happy with 2500. i was originally planning on moving to 6 creedmoor at the end of last year and i know the barrel life on those is pretty shitty so that is what inevitably led me to choose the GT.

 

[47guy]

If the gt was getting anywhere near 3k/barrel, guys would be screaming it off the mountain tops. I’d expect same as dasher and such, 2k on average. Not a knock on the gt, just and observation as it’s been out long enough for barrels to be burning out.

This^^^! I just retired my first 6BRA barrel today at 2068 rounds...it may have went a little more but not going to risk it going at a match...been there several times.

it started to open up last Sunday anyway...I’m VERY happy with 2000+ VERY accurate rounds out of a 6mm!

 

[47guy]

yeah i'll be happy with 2500. i was originally planning on moving to 6 creedmoor at the end of last year and i know the barrel life on those is pretty shitty so that is what inevitably led me to choose the GT.

barrel life will depend more on what the barrel is used for...casual shooting MAYBE but comp/faster paced shooting you’ll be more likely to get 2000+or- a few.

 

[Darkside-Six]

barrel life will depend more on what the barrel is used for...casual shooting MAYBE but comp/faster paced shooting you’ll be more likely to get 2000+or- a few.

I shoot matches. As mentioned above, I know of several shooters (PRS) competitors with right at or just over 2k rounds so far and no issues as of yet. I’m sure as the year goes on we’ll get a better basis for comparison as in just under 1k so far on my first barrel.

 

[MakeSawdust]

Comparing barrel life is sort of a shit show. My current 243ai barrel has about 1200 rds through it. The throat has eroded around .065" and I started out jumping bullets .040". Recently, a load that shot sub 3/8 moa opened up to around 3/4 moa. A lot of people would have said to hell with it and been done right there.

I seated the bullets out so they were .040" off again and started adding powder. The chrono data sucked until I added 1.2 grains to the charge. I then shot a ladder at 800 yards in .1 increments. 48.7 grains to 50.0 grains of h1000 under a 115 DTAC made a group on the target that was less than .2 mils. If I get to take out the one wide shot, the group was barely over .1 mils. It hammers again. It will for somewhere between 500 and 800 more rounds. I could have said to hell with it and put a new barrel on and started fresh. That is what a lot of people would do, and what I would be tempted to do if barrels were free, or close to free.

Depending on your tolerance for load work-up, that barrel was done at 1200 rds. I typically do load development about 3 times per barrel and get 2500 rds out of one at around 1/2 moa accuracy.

Some people might not want to waste the time to do that. New barrels are easier.

So, what's the barrel life of a 243ai running dtacs. I say it's around 2500 rds. Someone else could also correctly claim it is 1200 rds. Maybe someone else will shoot it until it won't hold 1 moa at 100 yds and it will go 3000 rds. There's a pretty big difference between those numbers. It is all a matter of perspective.

 

[47guy]

Comparing barrel life is sort of a shit show. My current 243ai barrel has about 1200 rds through it. The throat has eroded around .065" and I started out jumping bullets .040". Recently, a load that shot sub 3/8 moa opened up to around 3/4 moa. A lot of people would have said to hell with it and been done right there.

I seated the bullets out so they were .040" off again and started adding powder. The chrono data sucked until I added 1.2 grains to the charge. I then shot a ladder at 800 yards in .1 increments. 48.7 grains to 50.0 grains of h1000 under a 115 DTAC made a group on the target that was less than .2 mils. If I get to take out the one wide shot, the group was barely over .1 mils. It hammers again. It will for somewhere between 500 and 800 more rounds. I could have said to hell with it and put a new barrel on and started fresh. That is what a lot of people would do, and what I would be tempted to do if barrels were free, or close to free.

Depending on your tolerance for load work-up, that barrel was done at 1200 rds. I typically do load development about 3 times per barrel and get 2500 rds out of one at around 1/2 moa accuracy.

Some people might not want to waste the time to do that. New barrels are easier.

So, what's the barrel life of a 243ai running dtacs. I say it's around 2500 rds. Someone else could also correctly claim it is 1200 rds. Maybe someone else will shoot it until it won't hold 1 moa at 100 yds and it will go 3000 rds. There's a pretty big difference between those numbers. It is all a matter of perspective.

not 2500 rounds...if you get much over 1500 ACCURATE rounds id be real surprised...barrel life is more about your accuracy expectations...you say IF you take a round out of your group it would of been a better group...was that round YOU or a FLYER?

i shoot a couple of matches that a 1/2MOA gun will have a tough time placing in the top 3 so you and i probably have different opinions on whats accurate and whats not.

 

[Milo 2.5]

not 2500 rounds...if you get much over 1500 ACCURATE rounds id be real surprised...barrel life is more about your accuracy expectations...you say IF you take a round out of your group it would of been a better group...was that round YOU or a FLYER?

i shoot a couple of matches that a 1/2MOA gun will have a tough time placing in the top 3 so you and i probably have different opinions on whats accurate and whats not.

This ^^^. I have really never gotten great barrel life from a 6mm. My best was 1800, 6 comp match. My first Dasher was done in 1700, which doesn't make sense. I had a couple Dashers built for kids, proof carbon barrels, the oldest kids dumped 70fps in under 1200 rds, brought it back with a half gr more powder, but am not expecting it to last too much longer.
Right now, I am kind of running longevity tests based on brands of barrels, I perceive that I have witnessed some patterns, whether I can substantiate anything will be the question.

 

[47guy]

This ^^^. I have really never gotten great barrel life from a 6mm. My best was 1800, 6 comp match. My first Dasher was done in 1700, which doesn't make sense. I had a couple Dashers built for kids, proof carbon barrels, the oldest kids dumped 70fps in under 1200 rds, brought it back with a half gr more powder, but am not expecting it to last too much longer.
Right now, I am kind of running longevity tests based on brands of barrels, I perceive that I have witnessed some patterns, whether I can substantiate anything will be the question.

id be VERY interested to hear what you think when you get it figured out....ive had a couple barrels go about the half way mark of normal.

 

[Milo 2.5]

id be VERY interested to hear what you think when you get it figured out....ive had a couple barrels go about the half way mark of normal.

LOL, I am sure it will be futile, i do not have the time to shoot these side by side in exact conditions, blah, blah, you know what I am talking about. The duplication part will be tough, so for now just making observations.
I mentioned getting 1800 from a comp match barrel, we had real mild winter 5 yrs ago and we shot a lot, so most of rds fired were under 60 deg, so that is out the door.
I used one brand for 4 yrs exclusively, best accuracy i have ever had, but just when you really start getting attached to it, bam, dead

 

[47guy]

I have had 3 Dashers, 2 BRs, 2 Creeds, 3 SLRs, and now a GT. The GT, dimensionally, should be about perfect but the sample size of 1 i have right now is not convincing me to move away from my current Dasher. To the OP, just do a BR. It is the simplest, classiest, and most reliable cartridge you will deal with. It will make you a a bad reloader bc you won't need to figure anything out. My Dashers have also been super accurate and extremely consistent but I have not had a barrel go past 1800. And that is with load redevelopment like mentioned above. Dimensionally, it looks retarded. Stupid short neck, but damn...it works. This lot of 350pcs of brass is on its third barrel.

I use 6 creeds and the SLRs for belly, field matches but I'm probably going to stop doing that. I had very accurate barrels and loads but the consistency of the BR based cartridges win every time over BC and speed. All these bigger 6mm cartridges could be great. Individual results will definitely vary. A lot of people push these cartridges up to 65/70K PSI and have issues and blame the cartridge design or brass. In the case of the XC, just make sure you get the reamer and sizing die compatibility sorted out. There is a web spec you'd need to do some research on. The Dasher can also suffer from differing reamer and die specs in the web. When it comes to the BRA and BRX, I just don't think there's enough case capacity increase to justify all the fooling around with fireforming. And I'm the last person that's scared to fire form. I just think people expect to much velocity increase with a shoulder angle change and run them to hard. I don't think there is a real functional difference between a BRA and a BR. Nothing that makes .1 made difference in wind inside 800yds(without sandbagging a BR and running a BRA at 70K).

Unless you're shooting an AI that needs a 308 based training wheel to function, just shoot a BR. Right @Supersubes and @BLKWLFK9 ?

im still trying to figure out how you guys with all these guns have to to load for let alone shoot them all...i have a hard enough time managing 1 gun LOL!

 

[kthomas]

im still trying to figure out how you guys with all these guns have to to load for let alone shoot them all...i have a hard enough time managing 1 gun LOL!

No shit, I reload for 3 cartridges, and I think even that is overboard. At some point I'm going to completely ditch my 6.5 creedmoor setup once I burn up the barrel, and reload for just 6BRA and .300NM.

Not enough time, and too much crossover in functionality between 6mm and 6.5mm.

 

[spife7980]

im still trying to figure out how you guys with all these guns have to to load for let alone shoot them all...i have a hard enough time managing 1 gun LOL!

Ive got 4 frequent in the cycle and its exactly that, a cycle.
Normally my 223 gets most the attention but I have a new 22 creed rifle matching my match rifle that Im burning out as quick as I can having fun (its fucking amazing) and practicing and I have a new 6.5 creed barrel Im breaking in now so Ill have load development on that to do in 100 rounds. So the 223 is on the back burner a bit until that 22 creed goes. Then I have my dasher which Im just dedicating to matches only just so that I always have something reliable so it may go a month or two in between. I hope to not shoot it until september with all this heat.


OP, I say to stick with the smaller 6s, br based stuff. My first 6xc went 1700 before it started doing things that made me go "huh?". The second was a turd in a few hundred and I limped it along to 1200 before pulling both it and all my hair out.
The only thing I go "huh?' with on my dasher is the fact that it seems to be lasting forever which is a nice change of pace. The regular 6br would be even better.

 

[Milo 2.5]

im still trying to figure out how you guys with all these guns have to to load for let alone shoot them all...i have a hard enough time managing 1 gun LOL!

It is called retirement. The time is there, the coin too, now ambition these days is lacking.

 

[47guy]

It is called retirement. The time is there, the coin too, now ambition these days is lacking.

im 56 and starting to wonder if ill be able to retire with all the stupid going on in the world.

 

[Milo 2.5]

im 56 and starting to wonder if ill be able to retire with all the stupid going on in the world.

I sure hope you are able too! Though we all may be 60 yr old soldiers in the near future. I just hope I am not squaded with spife, he will graph my hit ratio and piss me off.

 

[47guy]

I sure hope you are able too! Though we all may be 60 yr old soldiers in the near future. I just hope I am not squaded with spife, he will graph my hit ratio and piss me off.

spife like the drill Sargent on full metal jacket LOL!!

 

[Milo 2.5]

spife like the drill Sargent on full metal jacket LOL!!

Yeah no shit, but with charts and graphs.

 

[spife7980]

spife like the drill Sargent on full metal jacket LOL!!

 

[camocorvette]

Glad I found this. Thinking of going 6BR. I really hope load development is as easy as everyone says. I just don't have the time as of lately. Is Power Pro 2000MR a good choice for powder? I've got a stock of that.

 

[Raufoss]

Dasher with Alpha bras

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Glad I found this. Thinking of going 6BR. I really hope load development is as easy as everyone says. I just don't have the time as of lately. Is Power Pro 2000MR a good choice for powder? I've got a stock of that.

It really is as easy as everyone says.

I just put together my first 6mm and I chose 6BR largely because of how easy everyone said it was to load for.

They weren't kidding. With a decent quality rifle and components load development is almost non existent. I tried 4 powder charges and picked a seating depth after reading Mark Gordons research on the subject.

All 4 shot awesome (0.25 MOA) so in the end I picked the speed I fancied and that was my load (30.4 Varget / 105 Hybrid / 0.075" seating depth - always start low and work up). This combo has went sub 0.2 MOA multiple times at various distances.

 

[camocorvette]

It really is as easy as everyone says.

I just put together my first 6mm and I chose 6BR largely because of how easy everyone said it was to load for.

They weren't kidding. With a decent quality rifle and components load development is almost non existent. I tried 4 powder charges and picked a seating depth after reading Mark Gordons research on the subject.

All 4 shot awesome (0.25 MOA) so in the end I picked the speed I fancied and that was my load (30.4 Varget / 105 Hybrid / 0.075" seating depth - always start low and work up). This combo has went sub 0.2 MOA multiple times at various distances.

Awesome! Thank you

 

[verdugo60]

This thread turned out to have some good info in it on 6mm's so I thought I would update on my 6GT. I started out really loving the 6GT. I'm at the end of my barrel life on the one I showed pictures of before, chambered in 2020. I have had weird issues with it in the last 3 local matches with elevation, I think the barrel has been gradually losing speed and crashed hard during my last 1 day match. The last 3 matches were hot, (90 degrees+) might have contributed to ending it's life early. I'm not particularly good at cutting practice sessions short at 10 rounds either, although I do try to let it cool in between most strings. Anyways, I had to add .3-.4 mils elevation to everything to hit at the last match. I wish I had a more accurate round count but I'm almost positive I'm below 1500 rounds, mabe closer to 1200ish.

Been running 35.5 grs H4350 with a 109 Berger Hybrid, Hornady brass @2880-2900 FPS . I switched jugs of powder halfway through the barrel and I think I lost just a little velocity, maybe 10-20 fps from 2900 with the new lot of powder. Gun shot tight groups right to the end until the last range trip after my disaster match. It is opening up now and I've lost on average 80 FPS.

Now I'm considering a straight 6BR or a 6 Dasher with Alpha brass. No fireforming and consistency, ideally a little more barrel life too. The GT was good until it wasn't. With better round count and paying attention I may have caught it sooner by checking it on a chronograph.

Summary of my 1st 6GT barrel:

Positives:
-Hornady brass was great, very accurate, no lost primer pockets in 5-6 firings.
-Good accuracy from get-go, no load development, similar to BR stuff.
-Good feeding from standard AICS mags. AW mags would probably need a mag kit for 100% feeding, seems to be the case in my Lone Peak Fuzion in a Foundation with Hawkins bottom metal.

Negatives:
-AW mag kit needed for a LP action
-Barrel shit the bed sooner than expected (12-1400ish rounds)
-Erratic behavior towards end of barrel life, likely related to barrel going "early"

I'd be curious if anyone has more updates on their 6mm's that has shot out several barrels. I know @reubenski and @spife7980 were running a couple. Anyone else with good barrel life data feel free to chime in. Obviously this can be subjective based on ambient temperature, how "hard" you run in matches and practice and your powder/pressure.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Here is what I've done with my current barrel.

I love a dasher. With that said, I took a 28" barrel, chambered it in 6 dasher, and im running it at BR speeds. So 30.6gr of varget gets 2860 fps with little to no effort, low SDs, small groups, yet feeds great. Ive had a BR and dasher. I think th shoulder angle of the dasher lends to better feeding, and improving the case from BR negates the need to do a lot of trimming. So it's BR performance, dasher feeding and little trimming ever needed. Fire forming brass isn't hard but it is a pain sometimes. Your option from there is getting brass hydro formed, false shoulder method, or jamming. All work (or cost) but they all get it done. I think this is the way I'm going from now on.

 

[verdugo60]

@BLKWLFK9 , nice. Happy Independence Day bro! Good to know on the feeding. Are you doing the Dasher in your AI AT? Or something else?

I'm leaning towards Dasher with Alpha brass, have heard the OCD stuff is on par with Lapua and no FF.

I had a BR feeding well in my old AT with HRD kits in AW mags, no other tweaking. Hoping to get the same in the Dasher/BR in my new potential "build" in an AO chassis.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

@BLKWLFK9 , nice. Happy Independence Day bro! Good to know on the feeding. Are you doing the Dasher in your AI AT? Or something else?

I'm leaning towards Dasher with Alpha brass, have heard the OCD stuff is on par with Lapua and no FF.

I had a BR feeding well in my old AT with HRD kits in AW mags, no other tweaking. Hoping to get the same in the Dasher/BR in my new potential "build" in an AO chassis.

Yea, in the AI. She feeds like an Alabama fat bitch at Golden Corral.

 

[verdugo60]

Yea, in the AI. She feeds like an Alabama fat bitch at Golden Corral.

Aaaaahhhhh, shit! She gettin' down on that banana pudding! LOL, good to know man.

 

[Krob95]

My BRA also feeds flawlessly in my AX/AO with AW mags. Easy money

 

[Krob95]

I've shot 6-7 matches with the GT. Hornady Brass, StaBall, 107SMKs, loaded on a 650 dropping powder and bullets fill auto. I think I'm at about 1000rds. My best guess.

It's an experiment for me. It's not my main comp barrel or rifle. Best I've done shooting it was 2nd. The last match I shot with it was the worst, somewhere in the top 10 I think. I definitely do a lot better shooting a Dasher out of my TL3. I load 105 Hybrids or 115 DTACs with H4350 in 5 yr old brass. I have no idea how many firings are on that batch of brass but I started with 330 and I'm down to 269. I've lost 60pcs at matches.

Recently I pulled my first Dasher barrel off the wall to fireform some new BR brass. I never burnt that barrel out and ended up switching to a second barrel because I wanted a heavier contour. It had 1400rds the last time I shot it in 2017. The throat was so long in it that I barely had 115's in the neck to fireform but they shot bugholes. I used 33gr of 4350 and was getting about 2750. It shot so good I decided to use that barrel in Steel Safari and shot it yesterday in a field match. 33.5gr got me about 2780fps. I think I was jumping somewhere between 80 and 150 thou. I took it to confirm zero Friday before the match yesterday. I like to zero at 300yds with my 300yd data. .9mrad. I held over .9 and shot the middle right lone shot. Came up .4, shot two more(low left of the paster), came up one more click and zeroed the turret. Held center and sent three to see where they land on the reticle. The 3rd group is so tight I can confidently say it's a .83 mrad drop. Not .9, not .85, and not .8.
View attachment 7905330
It's a TL3 feeding from AICS mags using Primal Rights kits. It is rock solid in feeding. Easily my most reliable platform. I still get the occasional bolt skip over with 6GT in AW mags in the AIAT. I have to regularly pull the springs out and stretch them.

I had similar issues with my 22GT in AX mags. So far none with my AW mags with the GT. Good to know that stretching them out a little bit will help if needed

 

[Krob95]

Are you using mag kits with the 22GT?

I can't with the 95's. Too long even on a new barrel. I probably could with the 85.5's or 80's though

 

[Matt_3479]

@verdugo60 1200-1500 rounds on the gt! I would expected slightly more! I’m running a bra and have 2400 rounds shooting .2’s-.3’s.

I have a second spun up and waiting but as long as this one shoots I can’t quit on it if it won’t quit on me

 

[verdugo60]

@verdugo60 1200-1500 rounds on the gt! I would expected slightly more! I’m running a bra and have 2400 rounds shooting .2’s-.3’s.

I have a second spun up and waiting but as long as this one shoots I can’t quit on it if it won’t quit on me

Yeah man, I was actually surprised and a little bummed, didn’t think it was that near its end but it definitely explains my dope issues. I’ve lost about 80 FPS and it’s opening up, has been a 1 hole gun most of its life. Can’t think of any other explanation, might scrub it down to bare metal and shoot 5-10 over chrono to double check but I think she’s done. Can’t really trust it in a match anymore.

Good excuse to try something else. I have another 6GT barrel on a Lone Peak Fuzion I’m playing with so I’ll focus on that one and probably order up a couple Dasher pre-fits from Proof.

 

[dimar1492]

Yeah man, I was actually surprised and a little bummed, didn’t think it was that near its end but it definitely explains my dope issues. I’ve lost about 80 FPS and it’s opening up, has been a 1 hole gun most of its life. Can’t think of any other explanation, might scrub it down to bare metal and shoot 5-10 over chrono to double check but I think she’s done. Can’t really trust it in a match anymore.

Good excuse to try something else. I have another 6GT barrel on a Lone Peak Fuzion I’m playing with so I’ll focus on that one and probably order up a couple Dasher pre-fits from Proof.

Don't rule out the barrel. I've had a barrel do something similar and started losing speed after 700 rounds and was completely trashed by 900. This was on a 6XC where at least 4 of my other barrels all lasted 1500+ at a minimum. This to say, I don't think what you experienced is a representation of the cartridge alone.

 

[drummachinejoe]

I have just switched back to dasher from 6gt.

IMO, 6br based cartridges are still king. Close your eyes and pick one. Most of the 6br variants all do the same thing.

6bra is probably the easiest to fireform. Brx/dasher.....pick the one the appeals to you more based on its characteristics. But I doubt you’ll be able to tell a difference on paper.

@Dthomas3523
Was your GT .120 freebore? Debating a 6 BRA/Dasher/GT. But shooting for a .154-.180” freebore for 105-115 gr projectiles.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Not saying it’s the best, but…

I’ve been shooting a 28” 6 ARC with cheap starline brass and cheap CFE223 for 2 years… loading it on a progressive

Pros: Cheap brass, cheap powder, easy to load, great barrel life… easily run
2800-2850

Cons: CFE223 is the best powder for it and it’s dirty and not as temp stable (but the Kestrel takes care of the temp stability)

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Now that the GT has been out for awhile, and Lapua is about to release brass, what's the opinion on going 6BRA vs GT?
I'm currently running a 6 Creed but it sounds like if I get serious about PRS I'll be shopping for a barrel soon...

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Now that the GT has been out for awhile, and Lapua is about to release brass, what's the opinion on going 6BRA vs GT?
I'm currently running a 6 Creed but it sounds like if I get serious about PRS I'll be shopping for a barrel soon...

All the top brass manufacturers make 6GT, Starline will likely drop it in this year if a guy wants cheap brass that’s better than Hornady… it’s a saami spec cartridge now… if I wanted bigger than 6ARC, but smaller than 6 Creedmoor… it would be my choice