Night Vision Help Me Pick a Thermal

[EastCOYotes]

I’m almost ready to buy a thermal, and I think I have my selection narrowed down a little. My use will be coyote calling in Eastern Colorado mostly on open pastures and fields. My preferred criteria and scopes I’m considering are below...

CRITERIA
- $4000 to $5000 budget
- 640 resolution sensor preferred
- Higher base optical mag such as 2x or 3x preferred
- Ability to run as scanner also preferred (with QD mount)
- 30Hz refresh rate is fine with me.
- Onboard video recording and other bells/whistles is a plus but not a requirement

SCOPES CONSIDERED
- Pulsar Trail XP50
- Armasight Zeus 3-24x75mm (640 res 30 Hz)
- Armasight Zeus 2-16x50mm (640 res 30 Hz)
- AGM/PRG Python TS50 (640 res)
- AGM/PRG Python TS75 (640 res)
- ATN Thor-HD 2.5-25x50mm (640 res)

My brief searching shows that all these scopes can be had within my budget, maybe even less for the 2-16 Zeus. I’ve heard mixed reviews about ATN but figured I’d leave the scope in consideration since it fits my criteria. Feedback is appreciated as well as other scopes I might be missing.

 

[Bravo6niner]

Hunting in the similar terrain as your talking about I can give you my limited experience I have so far. I’m new to the thermal/nv deal so keep that in mind as well. I started off with a trail xp38 and thought I had the world by the tail until my buddy got a Trijicon IR REAP 35-2. No comparison in imagine quality but that is to sorta to be expected. I have found in hunting wide open terrain that locating and most importantly ID’ing critters at distance is very important!!! The Trail xp38 is an awesome unit and very capable but the detail and imagine quality that the trijicon or similar unit gives ya is very helpful in open terrain. Now I know you didn’t list the xp38 as an option but just wanted to give you a report on what I have found in similar hunting conditions. Granted you lose a little bit of FOV I bet a xp50 would work very well for ya and keeping within your budget. Another thing my buddy and I have found that is a huge help in open terrain is a rangefinder like a raptor or radius, or a xp50 with lrf capability.

 

[EastCOYotes]

Hunting in the similar terrain as your talking about I can give you my limited experience I have so far. I’m new to the thermal/nv deal so keep that in mind as well. I started off with a trail xp38 and thought I had the world by the tail until my buddy got a Trijicon IR REAP 35-2. No comparison in imagine quality but that is to sorta to be expected. I have found in hunting wide open terrain that locating and most importantly ID’ing critters at distance is very important!!! The Trail xp38 is an awesome unit and very capable but the detail and imagine quality that the trijicon or similar unit gives ya is very helpful in open terrain. Now I know you didn’t list the xp38 as an option but just wanted to give you a report on what I have found in similar hunting conditions. Granted you lose a little bit of FOV I bet a xp50 would work very well for ya and keeping within your budget. Another thing my buddy and I have found that is a huge help in open terrain is a rangefinder like a raptor or radius, or a xp50 with lrf capability.

I have considered the LRF option like you’ve mentioned, and I’m sorta leaning to something like a radius there that I could buy later on.

The higher base mag is my preference for the reasons you mentioned (better ID at longer ranges). I will sacrifice field of view some, but since I’m not hog hunting and maybe won’t need as many quick follow up shots it’s something I could live with to gain better clarity at distance.

 

[Bravo6niner]

I have considered the LRF option like you’ve mentioned, and I’m sorta leaning to something like a radius there that I could buy later on.

The higher base mag is my preference for the reasons you mentioned (better ID at longer ranges). I will sacrifice field of view some, but since I’m not hog hunting and maybe won’t need as many quick follow up shots it’s something I could live with to gain better clarity at distance.

It’s not so much the higher magnification that you need but the higher image quality that helps. I haven’t been over 2x on the REAP so far. Easiest way for me to explain it is when I still had my xp38 and my buddy just got his reap, we were both scanning a hill side about 400-500yds out and I was like hey we got two coyotes to the east and when he panned over he said nah it’s just two rabbits.

Keep in mind we are both new to thermal and after some time a guy will figure out how each animal walks and tell tale signs like that specific to different animals. Thermal just takes a bit of time to get the hang of as far as ID’ing animals but once you do it’s an awesome tool!!!

Point is the REAP’s image quality is just that much better than a cheaper thermal. I think there is a used trijicon hunter mkii on the px now that fits your budget and I know would fit the role your looking at ??

If I was typically hunting in thick trees or river bottoms a xp38 would really work well and save a guy some coin.

 

[PlinkIt]

Of the list you gave the only one I would consider is the trail

I would agree with the guys above that your budget is putting you so close to the BAE core units that it'd be a crime not to suggest them

I would start looking for a "used" / "demo" NVision Halo LR unit. Your 5k budget is so close you'll regret not doing so I bet... This is coming from a guy that traded his XP50 for a Halo LR...

 

[wigwamitus]

... Stay away from AGM‘s thermals... they are made in China bro. No bueno.

Agree in detail !!

Same for the ATNs ... made in china ... no boowaynoo ...

Nothing wrong with the Armasights ... though the 75mm lens is the "go to" ... that said those cores are 5+ year old technology and the new cores give smoother image.

The Trail XP50 with 1.6x optical magnification doesn't quite fit your specs. The thermion XP50 with 1.9x is closer. There is supposed to be someone on here about to do a field test and review of the thermion XP50, so if you can wait 2-3 weeks you could include that data in your decision.

And yes the Halo 25mm is where I would go for a dedicated scope in the $5k range.

 

[EastCOYotes]

Agree in detail !!

Same for the ATNs ... made in china ... no boowaynoo ...

Nothing wrong with the Armasights ... though the 75mm lens is the "go to" ... that said those cores are 5+ year old technology and the new cores give smoother image.

The Trail XP50 with 1.6x optical magnification doesn't quite fit your specs. The thermion XP50 with 1.9x is closer. There is supposed to be someone on here about to do a field test and review of the thermion XP50, so if you can wait 2-3 weeks you could include that data in your decision.

And yes the Halo 25mm is where I would go for a dedicated scope in the $5k range.

really wishing I would have done more research a month ago as I watched some pretty dang good Black Friday/cyber Monday deals come and go.

 

[wigwamitus]

Some sales are real, most are just "come ons" to get you to "buy now". If you call three dealers and say "I will buy a halo 25mm today for $xxxx" ... maybe they will say yes, or at least they will counter-offer. If they say "yes" then you got your deal (but then you really need to buy today!). If they counter-offer then you say "thanks, I will consider it".
Then call the next guy.
If none of the three meets the price you want, come back here and let us know you still can't find what you're looking for and we will try to help some more.
But in the mean time you've been able to save another $113.87 cents (I'm guessing) from your income and are getting closer to whatever the lowest price you heard in those counter-offers.

 

[Ravenworks]

Some sales are real, most are just "come ons" to get you to "buy now". If you call three dealers and say "I will buy a halo 25mm today for $xxxx" ... maybe they will say yes, or at least they will counter-offer. If they say "yes" then you got your deal (but then you really need to buy today!). If they counter-offer then you say "thanks, I will consider it".
Then call the next guy.
If none of the three meets the price you want, come back here and let us know you still can't find what you're looking for and we will try to help some more.
But in the mean time you've been able to save another $113.87 cents (I'm guessing) from your income and are getting closer to whatever the lowest price you heard in those counter-offers.

Armsunlimited.com is a really good company that will take serious offers seriously.
Would you consider renting units till you find the one you want?
Rental fees go towards purchase price ,

Rentals - Ultimate Night Vision

Night vision and thermal scope rentals for night hunting, pre-purchase evaluation and more. We ship thermal night vision rentals nation-wide and can have a rental sent out same-day in most cases.

www.ultimatenightvision.com

 

[MuleyTime]

I'll throw in a different angle for you.....
I'm new to the thermal world as well. I recently purchased the Halo LR and took it out for it's maiden voyage last night. I was in wide open country and was able to locate 5 yotes on 5 different stands. The Halo LR's image is outstanding. However, I was burned twice by not estimating the distance correctly on my only two shots. Now, I'm actually contemplating trading the Halo LR for the Pulsar to get the LRF feature.

I don't think you would need an LRF if every dog came in on a string....but last night was a case of very wary dogs and each hung up and wouldn't budge. I'm telling you.....you have NO clue on the distance with a thermal.

I am also stating this without ever comparing a Halo to a Pulsar XP or XQ side by side which may sway me back the other way.

 

[MuleyTime]

Get a silencerco radius or Wilcox Raptar. If you already have a top end thermal downgrading will almost certainly be dissappointing, the image quality between those bae cores and the pulsars/flirs are different worlds apart.

I hear ya, but adding a Radius to the equation is just plain unattractive to me.....I may be just bucking the idea for silly reasons though.

 

[Bravo6niner]

100% agree with elite on getting a Radius!!

 

[MuleyTime]

For weight purposes or for time consumption switching between the rangefinder and the thermal? practice makes perfect man, I can attribute my succcesful fox hunts to ranging the target quickly and making adjustments from there... YMMV..

For starters, that would put my total investment around $8K+.....the argument is, (without personally comparing) the image difference isn't worth 2K+ more and I would get LRF features plus some built in.

Those Trail LRF videos show an image that isn't too shabby at all; and the real image should be even better.

That's really my argument...thoughts....valid or not??

 

[deersniper]

I hear ya, but adding a Radius to the equation is just plain unattractive to me.....I may be just bucking the idea for silly reasons though.

You need to try one

 

[Frog05]

I'll throw in a different angle for you.....
I'm new to the thermal world as well. I recently purchased the Halo LR and took it out for it's maiden voyage last night. I was in wide open country and was able to locate 5 yotes on 5 different stands. The Halo LR's image is outstanding. However, I was burned twice by not estimating the distance correctly on my only two shots. Now, I'm actually contemplating trading the Halo LR for the Pulsar to get the LRF feature.

I don't think you would need an LRF if every dog came in on a string....but last night was a case of very wary dogs and each hung up and wouldn't budge. I'm telling you.....you have NO clue on the distance with a thermal.

I am also stating this without ever comparing a Halo to a Pulsar XP or XQ side by side which may sway me back the other way.

I would suggest borrowing or renting one and try it out before making such a move.

 

[MuleyTime]

OK.....I'll settle down. Was just watching videos on the Radius. Looks awesome and one is now in my near future

 

[Deadfall]

I don’t have first hand experience with anything but Trijicon and Pulsar but here are my thoughts.

I run a Trijicon mk3 60mm and SiCo Radius on my hunting rifle and scan with a Pulsar Helion XP50. For image clarity and detail nothing beats the Trijicon as far as what I’ve seen. I have a hunting partner who uses the XP50 LRF on his rifle and scans with an Helion XP38. He is happy with them but as stated above, there are times he says “coyote” and I pan over with my Trijicon and say, “Nah it’s just a jackrabbit.” There have been a couple glitches with his LRF model locking up when ranging with low battery. Idk if he’s done any firmware updates but it seems there’s a glitch as it’s a pretty repeatable problem. The other issue with the Pulsars is the change of POI with temperature changes. Google should lead you to other forums where the issue is discussed in detail and Pulsar has even warrantied units because of it.

I will say that when I had a problem with my Pulsar scanner the customer service they provided was very good. I have yet to require CS for the Trijicon but if I ever do I hope they are as good to work with as Pulsar.

 

[Deadfall]

I would suggest borrowing or renting one and try it out before making such a move.

This is solid advice! Some dealers will discount the rental cost from a new unit should you decide to purchase from them after renting.

 

[Blitzy]

It’s not so much the higher magnification that you need but the higher image quality that helps. I haven’t been over 2x on the REAP so far. Easiest way for me to explain it is when I still had my xp38 and my buddy just got his reap, we were both scanning a hill side about 400-500yds out and I was like hey we got two coyotes to the east and when he panned over he said nah it’s just two rabbits.

Man I want to try a REAP

 

[Frog05]

Man I want to try a REAP

 

[robbf213]

Check out DSG Arms, they had some counter display Reaps that were selling for around $5-5.5K. I’ve had my Reap for right at two years and if I had to replace it another Reap is what I’d go with.

 

[Chevoke]

I have considered the LRF option like you’ve mentioned, and I’m sorta leaning to something like a radius there that I could buy later on.

The higher base mag is my preference for the reasons you mentioned (better ID at longer ranges). I will sacrifice field of view some, but since I’m not hog hunting and maybe won’t need as many quick follow up shots it’s something I could live with to gain better clarity at distance.

This. Buy a Trijicon nothing better

 

[TampaBud]

I started night thermal hunting about 3 years ago. It even got to the point where I brought my thermal in the woods with me for a day scope hunt and used my thermal to scan fields just before first light. I've owned a Pulsar, PRG and now a Trijicon. The Pulsar work very well for my budget and animal detection. I sold it and briefly went to a PRG, instant return of that product. Guts were good, size was small but the menu was a pain in the ass to use. I switched to a Triji IR Hunter this year and it's like thermal porn.

I'd definitely look around for a 1yr old used unit. I've migrated to only one provider for these solutions. If you want to send a note, I'd gladly make the introduction. I'm not sure if we can promote individual companies here.

Since i opted to to have one device to scan and shoot, the QD was critical. Currently have a Larue on my IR Hunter but if ZRODelta made one that fit, I"d switch in an instant. For me, the key is to move quickly from scanning to mounting for a shot. Just my 2 cents, hope it helps.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Up front I'll say I know diddly squat about picking out a thermal.

Thought I'd pass this post along in case it might be useful to you.

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[Tex_ponch]

so I have a xq50 trail LRF and I can id yotes at over 400yds. I would REALLY recommend the range finder since with thermal it is hard to gauge distance since you are looking at a screen. Click here for a yote video...