Night Vision Help me pick out a Clip on.

[Awag1000]

I'm currently getting a rifle set up to use a clip on Night Vision scope. It's going to be on a 308 bolt gun with a 10x scope. I don't plan on shooting farther than 500 yards in the dark. Majority is going to be under 300 but I want the option to range out further if I have to. I've heard good things about the PVS27 and PVS30 but they seem to be a bit overkill for what I need. Are there other options out there? Thank you for your time. -Austin

 

[Victor-TNVC]

I'm currently getting a rifle set up to use a clip on Night Vision scope. It's going to be on a 308 bolt gun with a 10x scope. I don't plan on shooting farther than 500 yards in the dark. Majority is going to be under 300 but I want the option to range out further if I have to. I've heard good things about the PVS27 and PVS30 but they seem to be a bit overkill for what I need. Are there other options out there? Thank you for your time. -Austin

They're not overkill for the ranges you're talking about. Just insure you use great day glass and a great IR illuminator.

 

[Evintos]

SIMRAD KN203FAB (AN/PVS-9), but they're bulky.

 

[wigwamitus]

Well the 27 and 30 are not overkill on price. At street prices around $4k ... the competition ... say something like an AGM Commanche (basically the Olde CO-x or CO-LR with a different name and housing) will cost about the same for gen3 ... now you could go with gen2 and a illuminator, like an ELIR-3 ... and get the job done for $2,300-ish ... but with any of the Commanche options, you'll give up more on image vis a vis the 27/30 s than you'll gain on price.
And then there's the SIMRAD route ... image more on par with the 27s and 30s ... price on par with the gen2 commanches ($2k-ish) ... but you have to bore sight the SIMRADs ... which you don't (much) with any of the others as they are factory collimated.

 

[Awag1000]

SIMRAD KN203FAB (AN/PVS-9), but they're bulky.

Not too worried about bulky. This is going to be a dedicated NV setup.
What are the merits of the SIMRAD over something like a PVS27?

 

[Awag1000]

Well the 27 and 30 are not overkill on price. At street prices around $4k ... the competition ... say something like an AGM Commanche (basically the Olde CO-x or CO-LR with a different name and housing) will cost about the same for gen3 ... now you could go with gen2 and a illuminator, like an ELIR-3 ... and get the job done for $2,300-ish ... but with any of the Commanche options, you'll give up more on image vis a vis the 27/30 s than you'll gain on price.
And then there's the SIMRAD route ... image more on par with the 27s and 30s ... price on par with the gen2 commanches ($2k-ish) ... but you have to bore sight the SIMRADs ... which you don't (much) with any of the others as they are factory collimated.

Interesting. It would be nice to have a high resolution option which is why I was initially looking at the 27 and 30's I don't mind doing leg work to set up/bore sight.
I'd rather not use an illuminator if I don't have to. The SIMRAD seems to be the option I'm leaning towards as of right now. Since these units are mounted on the scope is there a maximum objective size? The scope I'm using is a 42mm objective (SWFA 10x HD)

 

[wigwamitus]

What are the merits of the SIMRAD over something like a PVS27?

Price ( $2k vs $4k+)
And no fore rail required (if using a bolt gun)

 

[wigwamitus]

... Since these units are mounted on the scope is there a maximum objective size? The scope I'm using is a 42mm objective (SWFA 10x HD) ...

Yes there is a max ... but 42mm is well under the max (which is around 56mm-ish plus or minus)

 

[srt-4_uk]

What are the merits of the SIMRAD over something like a PVS27?

Price

 

[wigwamitus]

... I'd rather not use an illuminator if I don't have to ..

Illum not required in all situations, like in open pasture if there's a good moon up there ... but Illum definitely recommended ... so you don't loose a yote in the shadows ... even with a moon up there ... The ELIR-3 can get you out to 600yds ... so within your 500yds for max engagement distance.

 

[Evintos]

Not too worried about bulky. This is going to be a dedicated NV setup.
What are the merits of the SIMRAD over something like a PVS27?

Besides for price, good light gathering capability due to giant lens, ability to boresight.

 

[Awag1000]

Price ( $2k vs $4k+)
And no fore rail required (if using a bolt gun)

Wow those are some nice setups.
I have a bit of a strange question.
What size intensifier tubes do these use?
If I end up getting one, later on down the line I may want to upgrade the tube if that's possible.

 

[Evintos]

Wow those are some nice setups.
I have a bit of a strange question.
What size intensifier tubes do these use?
If I end up getting one, later on down the line I may want to upgrade the tube if that's possible.

Someone is gonna have to double check - Tube MX-10130

 

[Awag1000]

Someone is gonna have to double check - Tube MX10130

Sweet.

 

[PlinkIt]

You should really talk to @wigwamitus about the two simrad units he listed this week.
Check his listing out here
Wig is one of the most helpful guys you'll find here as well as having orchestrated a few group buys for all of us here.

Simrad units are not as easy to find anymore but work well. I had the 253 (smaller simrad) myself but it did good as well. The big lens on the 203 supposedly sucks up some SERIOUS light and should perform beyond your distance requirements.

From your posts I gather you have one specific 308 you plan to put the clip-on with which makes sense for the Simrad. It'll repeat on and off the same rifle very well. It's also easy to reach the controls on the Simrad. If I understand your position correctly I wouldn't miss a breath recommending the Simrad.

 

[Awag1000]

You should really talk to @wigwamitus about the two simrad units he listed this week.
Check his listing out here
Wig is one of the most helpful guys you'll find here as well as having orchestrated a few group buys for all of us here.

Simrad units are not as easy to find anymore but work well. I had the 253 (smaller simrad) myself but it did good as well. The big lens on the 203 supposedly sucks up some SERIOUS light and should perform beyond your distance requirements.

From your posts I gather you have one specific 308 you plan to put the clip-on with which makes sense for the Simrad. It'll repeat on and off the same rifle very well. It's also easy to reach the controls on the Simrad. If I understand your position correctly I wouldn't miss a breath recommending the Simrad.

Thank you, I'm sure I can work out something in the near future. I still want to learn more about the SIMRAD before I pull the trigger and buy one. Right now it seems like the best option so far.

 

[PlinkIt]

There are several guys here that are very familiar with them. They helped me get up and going with the 253 when I first got going with nv.

If you search the forum here for Simrad you can read till your eyes bleed.

Search results for Simrad

You'll find several threads including some from myself. Everything from zeroing to selecting scopes to modifying different units to fit various scopes. Only draw back I can think of is the scope can't be unusually long on the objective end. I know my 253 would fit a gen 2 razor 4.5-27x56 though so it's wasn't an issue to fit anything I own

 

[Awag1000]

How much recoil can these units handle? I do have a fairly heavy 300 WinMag. I know most NV units shouldn't be subjected to any more recoil than a 308. I'm just curious.

 

[PlinkIt]

I personally don't recall ever seeing any claim of recoil getting the better of a Simrad tube...

I've seen mention of 300wm and 338lapua being used

But personally I don't enjoy subjecting myself to anything beyond 308 either so that's all I can vouch for

 

[Awag1000]

I personally don't recall ever seeing any claim of recoil getting the better of a Simrad tube...

I've seen mention of 300wm and 338lapua

But personally I don't enjoy subjecting myself to anything beyond 308 either so that's all I can vouch for

That's good to know.
I've read some of the search results that you linked. One of the posts a user had what seemed to be a loose mirror or lense in the unit.
I think it would be great if I could get my hands on a beat/broken unit and see if I can learn how to service them. I feel pretty comfortable servicing PVS-14s. I've done it a handful of times with mine.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

The tube is somewhat proprietary for the Simrad. If I remember correctly it is of the f9811 variety which is a 10130 type but inverted I believe. Photonis I believe makes tubes for the Simrad as of yet since they still seem to be in service in Europe quite a bit.

some large spanners and tooling are required to open and service them as well. The only consistent issues I’ve seen with any of the dozens I’ve been across is failed battery box housings that were cause by psycho hard epoxy they used to seal the wiring and over time it shrank enough it would break the wiring off to the batt contacts. Easy repair overall. Aside of that they are robust and work great

 

[cake5150]

If you can use a front rail and don't mind the extra $$, get a PVS-27. If not, get a KN203 SIMRAD. I've used both extensively, never needed an illuminator with either. The cost-effectiveness of a KN203 cannot be overstated. Don't worry about recoil with either one, both are tanks.

 

[CTM1]

How much recoil can these units handle? I do have a fairly heavy 300 WinMag. I know most NV units shouldn't be subjected to any more recoil than a 308. I'm just curious.

Here is a link to an old page that shows a 203 mounted on a Barrett 50 cal (scroll down on page)
https://www.bevfitchett.us/sniper-training-2/objective-lensbest-night.html

 

[McNamara0851]

Another vote for the Simrad. For the money, they just work. Dark, bright, rain, snow, with or without an illuminator, close range or far, on a 22LR or a 20MM. As mentioned before, the gain and focus are very ergonomically located when compared to other comparable clip ons. I took a few coyotes around 300 yards last week and didn’t think twice about it. The last one I shot at 342 yards. After damn near an hour on set I had the slack taken up on one at 625 yards before it decided to cross the ditch for a better look. I practice (not often) on steel at that distance, and I could tell very clearly that it was a coyote and not a domestic dog. With Badger rings or a Spuhr Mount, you can put a simrad on anything with a scope. No NV bridge or rail required. Also, your IR Illuminator stays with the Simrad when you remove it so you don’t have to worry about mounting solutions for that either. Day rig to night rig in a few seconds. I clip mine on and off 5-10 times in a night with no issues. @cake5150 ^^^ sold me a pretty bad ass unit. He’s got a good idea of what works and what doesn’t, along with quite a few others in this thread.

 

[cake5150]

Another vote for the Simrad. For the money, they just work. Dark, bright, rain, snow, with or without an illuminator, close range or far, on a 22LR or a 20MM. As mentioned before, the gain and focus are very ergonomically located when compared to other comparable clip ons. I took a few coyotes around 300 yards last week and didn’t think twice about it. The last one I shot at 342 yards. After damn near an hour on set I had the slack taken up on one at 625 yards before it decided to cross the ditch for a better look. I practice (not often) on steel at that distance, and I could tell very clearly that it was a coyote and not a domestic dog. With Badger rings or a Spuhr Mount, you can put a simrad on anything with a scope. No NV bridge or rail required. Also, your IR Illuminator stays with the Simrad when you remove it so you don’t have to worry about mounting solutions for that either. Day rig to night rig in a few seconds. I clip mine on and off 5-10 times in a night with no issues. @cake5150 ^^^ sold me a pretty bad ass unit. He’s got a good idea of what works and what doesn’t, along with quite a few others in this thread.

Glad to see my final SIMRAD is once again out doing the Lord's work They really are crazy good for the cash.

 

[Awag1000]

Glad to see my final SIMRAD is once again out doing the Lord's work They really are crazy good for the cash.

As of right now it seems to be the best thing Ive looked in to so far.

 

[smcfarland]

Another vote for SIMRAD. Went through this same process over a year ago. Rented a PVS 30 and loved the image, but adjusting the focus is a PITA.
Very easy to turn on/off, adjust focus, and mount the SIMRAD KN203. Image to my eyes was better than the PVS 30. Anything over 10-15% illum and shouldn't need an IR light.
Have counted antlers on whitetails at 1000m with it.
Shot coyotes out to 300m with it, and lots of pigs.
It's bulky and not the most maneuverable, but easy to throw in a pack, get rifle set up on a tripod, then attach SIMRAD and add 1mil on the riflescope.
Not too hard to zero, plenty of instructions out there, and it's in the manual if included (mine was).
Shooting mine on a USO B17 and fits without issues.
Very happy with the unit I got from Cake5150.

 

[TheHorta]

INOD.