Night Vision Help me spend my Money efficiently (Lasers and Light)

[sid]

so i have a PVS14 coming, it will be my first time even just looking trough a Gen3 unit, my only experience was with a POS Zeiss Fero when i was in the military.


anyway, i ordered a bump helmet, and a rhino mount, my SBR has a MRO that has the settings to use it for Night Vision, but i understand that that is not ideal and i should get some kind of laser... and oh boy sooo many to choose from... but forking out that much money i want to do it right.
i am thinking L3 ATPIAL-C or DBAL A3, i want an "All in one" unit and dont see myself shooting further then 100 or 200 yards

Another option would be instead 1 higher cost unit, to get 2 lower cost units IR lasers(Holosun type) with separate IR Lights so i could equip my 300BLK and 22LR uppers

for the Ruger MK pistol i was thinking a Steiner TOR mini and get some kind of IR flashlight that i put on the helmet what would be a good light? the purpose would be checking on the chickens and the barns, close range stuff.


thanks for the help!

 

[Gasgun]

I have no personal experience with the ATPIAL-C, but the consensus is that it is overpriced junk.
Check out the PERST-3. It’s going to be my next IR laser unless I can find a deal on a PEQ-15.

 

[RTH1800]

Calling @wigwamitus This is serious chicken overwatch.

 

[sid]

damn, ATPIAL C is junk? the PEQ15 is the same but without the civi laser correct?
so i cant buy a new one and have to look for a used one thats not stolen...
i have seen the PERST stuff, but im not a fan off waiting months in uncertainty, i might get one when the corona thing is over and shipping goes back to normal.

@rth1800 yes, got to protect the Chicks

 

[Gasgun]

damn, ATPIAL C is junk? the PEQ15 is the same but without the civi laser correct?
so i cant buy a new one and have to look for a used one thats not stolen...
i have seen the PERST stuff, but im not a fan off waiting months in uncertainty, i might get one when the corona thing is over and shipping goes back to normal.

@rth1800 yes, got to protect the Chicks

The illuminator is weak.

 

[wigwamitus]

I also do coop defense (check night shooting thread) ... and weapons of choice partly depends on the season ... in the winter, much less vegetation, so overwatch with rifle on tripod and thermal clipon works well and allows reaching to over 200yds to tag yotes harrassing the calving cows and newborn calves.

In warm season, too much vegetation for that, so carbines with Steiner OTAL (and NDF) and Luna ELIR-3 are my solutions. Net cost about $450 for the OTAL and $320 for the Luna. $770. With the neutral density filter on the OTAL, the aiming laser is super tiny to allow for shot placement on coons/opossum which are primary targets close in to the coop. I usually leave the Luna turned down low on intensity and beam width to avoid "bounce back" of the illumination and to enable looking thru gaps in the vegetation.

At 50yds, I set to Luna to about a 10 foot circle with maybe a 1/2 MOA dot in the middle (the aiming laser). Its a great image.

==
What we're missing is the unity dual lead hot button. Once those show up we can have one button instant on for the two devices. But against critters that don't have NV and don't shoot back, the above setups work just fine.

 

[TheHorta]

Get the new Steiner IR laser. Light as a feather and takes minuscule rail space. Then get a Surefire Vampire White/IR light, which will pull double-duty. That’ll set you back $500-600 total, and will keep your rifle light and free from bulky clutter. Zero the Steiner by aligning it with your RDS at 300-yards, give or take. Easy peasy.

Surefire V1 for your helmet, but I’m not a fan of helmet-mounted lights, unless it’s something like a Princeton or SF low-output, multi-spectrum for workspace stuff.

 

[sid]

I also do coop defense (check night shooting thread) ... and weapons of choice partly depends on the season ... in the winter, much less vegetation, so overwatch with rifle on tripod and thermal clipon works well and allows reaching to over 200yds to tag yotes harrassing the calving cows and newborn calves.

In warm season, too much vegetation for that, so carbines with Steiner OTAL (and NDF) and Luna ELIR-3 are my solutions. Net cost about $450 for the OTAL and $320 for the Luna. $770. With the neutral density filter on the OTAL, the aiming laser is super tiny to allow for shot placement on coons/opossum which are primary targets close in to the coop. I usually leave the Luna turned down low on intensity and beam width to avoid "bounce back" of the illumination and to enable looking thru gaps in the vegetation.

At 50yds, I set to Luna to about a 10 foot circle with maybe a 1/2 MOA dot in the middle (the aiming laser). Its a great image.

==
What we're missing is the unity dual lead hot button. Once those show up we can have one button instant on for the two devices. But against critters that don't have NV and don't shoot back, the above setups work just fine.

that sounds interesting, i have looked that luna light up, and it seems to be pretty good.
when will the unity switch be availeble?

 

[sid]

Get the new Steiner IR laser. Light as a feather and takes minuscule rail space. Then get a Surefire Vampire White/IR light, which will pull double-duty. That’ll set you back $500-600 total, and will keep your rifle light and free from bulky clutter. Zero the Steiner by aligning it with your RDS at 300-yards, give or take. Easy peasy.

Surefire V1 for your helmet, but I’m not a fan of helmet-mounted lights, unless it’s something like a Princeton or SF low-output, multi-spectrum for workspace stuff.

would you pick the Surefire V1 over the surefire x300v Vampire? i think the X300 sounds better and is even a little cheaper plus i dont have to figure out mounting. i can put it on 22 pistol or swap it easily to the helmet when im not armed

 

[TheHorta]

would you pick the Surefire V1 over the surefire x300v Vampire? i think the X300 sounds better and is even a little cheaper plus i dont have to figure out mounting. i can put it on 22 pistol or swap it easily to the helmet when im not armed

I have a half-dozen X300V's and a couple of X400V's (same light, but with IR laser). I use them almost exclusively on pistols, BUT I wouldn't have a problem using them on a general-purpose rifle. Necessity is the mother of invention, and since you're not building a dedicated High Speed SHTF Tier-1 Black Ops Operator gun, the X300V would work just fine, and it'll fit even more snugly and be lighter than a Vampire. I keep a V1 in my carry-on backpack (I fly >300K miles annually, on average).

So, X300V and Steiner TNVC TOR is a potent, reliable, highly useful combination for any rifle. If you REALLY wanna run lightweight, take a look at the Streamlight TLR VIR-II. That has everything all-in-one and has a nifty quick-switch between white light and IR light/laser.

For under $1K you can have everything for your head and gun and save the rest for the best NOD you're able to afford.

If I were on a budget, that's how I'd run.

 

[WhereNow&How]

that sounds interesting, i have looked that luna light up, and it seems to be pretty good.
when will the unity switch be availeble?

If it was a baby, the 2 lead Unity Hot Button would be already about 2 birthings late.

Was supposed to be available last June 2019. At Shot 2020 they said would be shipping right after Shot.

Per my direct contact with them recently, they are saying late summer/fall right now.

So I sure hope that comes true. I been Jonesing for the dual lead Hot Button for a Looooo.........ng time.

 

[sid]

I have a half-dozen X300V's and a couple of X400V's (same light, but with IR laser). I use them almost exclusively on pistols, BUT I wouldn't have a problem using them on a general-purpose rifle. Necessity is the mother of invention, and since you're not building a dedicated High Speed SHTF Tier-1 Black Ops Operator gun, the X300V would work just fine, and it'll fit even more snugly and be lighter than a Vampire. I keep a V1 in my carry-on backpack (I fly >300K miles annually, on average).

So, X300V and Steiner TNVC TOR is a potent, reliable, highly useful combination for any rifle. If you REALLY wanna run lightweight, take a look at the Streamlight TLR VIR-II. That has everything all-in-one and has a nifty quick-switch between white light and IR light/laser.

For under $1K you can have everything for your head and gun and save the rest for the best NOD you're able to afford.

If I were on a budget, that's how I'd run.

Nice, the TLR VIR-II would fit nicely on my 22. Upper , ill get that one, the 22 pistol will get the TOR, and now i need something for the bigger guns

as far as Budget goes.... im not on a real tight budget for the light/laser, i just dont want to buy junk... or buy 2x

 

[aslrookie]

The vampire lights are ok. The modlite IR 850 is like having MAWL illuminator except it does have a significant red glow if that means anything to you.

The atpial C is overpriced in my opinion. The mawl is awesome but expensive. If you’re spending A3 money, just get a DBAL D2 instead.

 

[DoubleHaul]

I run my 14 over my dominant eye, so my preference for a pistol setup is a red dot and X300V over a laser. It feels identical to shooting with white light once you're used to it.

 

[sid]

The vampire lights are ok. The modlite IR 850 is like having MAWL illuminator except it does have a significant red glow if that means anything to you.

The atpial C is overpriced in my opinion. The mawl is awesome but expensive. If you’re spending A3 money, just get a DBAL D2 instead.

MAWL.. i have been looking at that, i love how its lefty friendly.. i just think it might be overkill.. but... it looks really really sexy

 

[aslrookie]

MAWL.. i have been looking at that, i love how its lefty friendly.. i just think it might be overkill.. but... it looks really really sexy

I hate the MAWL for the price. If it was $1800-2k, it would be a lot easier to justify. There's just a huge gap between mediocre performance and top of the line. You could argue the PERST lasers fill that price void, but I just personally don't trust them until there's more feedback on them. Having all that power is nice and all until it starts ruining your eyes over time of using it.

 

[WhereNow&How]

MAWL.. i have been looking at that, i love how its lefty friendly.. i just think it might be overkill.. but... it looks really really sexy

Yeah, a Venus Fly Trap looks sexy too. Don't fall for sexy. Go for the win.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I hate the MAWL for the price. If it was $1800-2k, it would be a lot easier to justify. There's just a huge gap between mediocre performance and top of the line. You could argue the PERST lasers fill that price void, but I just personally don't trust them until there's more feedback on them. Having all that power is nice and all until it starts ruining your eyes over time of using it.

True that on MAWL worth maybe $1,800 to $2K.

The Perst 3 at its price point is a pretty darn good deal. Albeit lately with the virus thing, shipping and delivery of it and everything has been sketchy. If they had come along years ago before I went the Steiner Dbal route I would have went with the Perst 3 with the exception that a Dbal A3 with its Overide To Vispoint feature is unique and important in certain situations.

 

[sid]

so i ordered the TRL VIR-II for my 22lr upper, since its a pretty small unit i feel like it will be perfect.

the plan right now is following:
- TOR for the 22lr pistol
- RMR for the Glock17 ( i have been watching some videos and it seem like it works as doublehaul says ( i might add the 300V light to it, but then it wont fit in the holster
- Luna ELIR-3 + OTAL for the 300blk ( or 18" 223.)


ps, my PVS14 will be delivered today!! i cant wait

 

[WhereNow&How]

so i ordered the TRL VIR-II for my 22lr upper, since its a pretty small unit i feel like it will be perfect.

the plan right now is following:
- TOR for the 22lr pistol
- RMR for the Glock17 ( i have been watching some videos and it seem like it works as doublehaul says ( i might add the 300V light to it, but then it wont fit in the holster
- Luna ELIR-3 + OTAL for the 300blk ( or 18" 223.)


ps, my PVS14 will be delivered today!! i cant wait

Pretty good choices. They will all get the job done well. Congrats.

 

[WillHugh]

Running an x300v on my helmet has been one of my best moves. You'll likely find yourself doing lots more with your pvs 14 than just shooting - they're awesome for hiking around, looking for animals, and driving atvs or other things at night. Having some good ir light at the ready on the helmet is really helpful for all those tasks, especially if you're under tree cover. Surefire makes a diffusor cover as well that works really nicely on those lights - it breaks up the really tight bright spot that's not super useful and gives some nice spill.

- Will

 

[WhereNow&How]

Running an x300v on my helmet has been one of my best moves. You'll likely find yourself doing lots more with your pvs 14 than just shooting - they're awesome for hiking around, looking for animals, and driving atvs or other things at night. Having some good ir light at the ready on the helmet is really helpful for all those tasks, especially if you're under tree cover. Surefire makes a diffusor cover as well that works really nicely on those lights - it breaks up the really tight bright spot that's not super useful and gives some nice spill.

- Will

I agree 150%. I run the Evolva T38 with IR 950 pass filter in front of them on my helmets to kill any red glow signature. The Evolva has 3 power buttons Low, Medium and High plus you can focus the bezel wide or narrow. It also runs on rechargeable 18650 batteries. Untold the amount of use I get out of that IR light.

 

[WillHugh]

I agree 150%. I run the Evolva T38 with IR 950 pass filter in front of them on my helmets to kill any red glow signature. The Evolva has 3 power buttons Low, Medium and High plus you can focus the bezel wide or narrow. It also runs on rechargeable 18650 batteries. Untold the amount of use I get out of that IR light.

I'll have to take a look into that light! Always looking for ways to improve my setup. I really need a low power light for navigation, have been considering one of the Princeton tecs.

 

[WhereNow&How]

A lot of time I might be in some thick cover at night looking for a wounded hog. All that being said, the Evolva T38 with the 950 Pass Filters with it set on low and the beam out wide works perfect for navigating and searching in thick terrain in about as dark an environment as you will get in. No splashback into your NODS.

 

[sid]

i just got my PVS14
so that headmount looks and feels like some medieval torturing device... or like something you put on the insane to keep them restrained
i cant wait for the helmet!

i went into a dark closet and turned it on, that was cool! and it was OMG after i pulled the front cover off

anyway, what i dont like:

i can put either the sacrificial glass on the front or the cover with the pinhole, i want to be able to always have a sacrificial glass, and then on top of it a cover with the pinhole, what do i need to buy??

 

[WhereNow&How]

@ sid: Either one of these options front and rear will protect your lens from getting scratched. I typically run a 14 a minimum of 2 fingers wide away from my eyes and a lot of times further to avoid fogging them up with body sweat, plus I like to be able to see under and to the side of my units. The Demist shield for the rear ocular I have found to be near useless for fogging up. Also, I usually don't wear eyecups either.

NVINC | SACRIFICIAL WINDOW LENS

The Night Vision Inc. Sacrificial Window is a necessity when operating in dusty, dirty, and hazardous environments; including military simulation and tactical scenarios. The Sacrificial Window Lens threads into objective as well as PVS-14 and ANVIS eyepieces and lenses of the PVS-14, DTNVG...

nvincorporated.com

Tiffen 30mm Clear Filter

Buy Tiffen 30mm Clear Filter featuring Clear Protection Filter, Prevents Damage to Lens, 1x Filter Factor, +0 Stop, No Effect on Image, Standard Coating, 30mm Front Filter Threads, ColorCore Technology. Review Tiffen null

www.bhphotovideo.com

 

[sid]

@ sid: Either one of these options front and rear will protect your lens from getting scratched. I typically run a 14 a minimum of 2 fingers wide away from my eyes and a lot of times further to avoid fogging them up with body sweat, plus I like to be able to see under and to the side of my units. The Demist shield for the rear ocular I have found to be near useless for fogging up. Also, I usually don't wear eyecups either.

NVINC | SACRIFICIAL WINDOW LENS

The Night Vision Inc. Sacrificial Window is a necessity when operating in dusty, dirty, and hazardous environments; including military simulation and tactical scenarios. The Sacrificial Window Lens threads into objective as well as PVS-14 and ANVIS eyepieces and lenses of the PVS-14, DTNVG...

nvincorporated.com

Tiffen 30mm Clear Filter

Buy Tiffen 30mm Clear Filter featuring Clear Protection Filter, Prevents Damage to Lens, 1x Filter Factor, +0 Stop, No Effect on Image, Standard Coating, 30mm Front Filter Threads, ColorCore Technology. Review Tiffen null

www.bhphotovideo.com

perfect, i like the screw in pieces from nvi

thanks!

 

[TNVC_Will]

I'll have to take a look into that light! Always looking for ways to improve my setup. I really need a low power light for navigation, have been considering one of the Princeton tecs.

The PT Switch IR/white is an awesome short range light. The IR settings are excellent. The high setting is exceptional for how small it is. I run two helmets, one with an X300V and the other with an Inforce WML IR 1 cell. Both with PT Switches. The WML is a great helmet light also with a wide flood. Or at least the gen 1 is since that's what I got.

 

[sid]

so i played last night in the dark.. it was awesome! i have know we have a lot of fireflies, but OMG under night vision i see even more, apparently some only glow weak and you cant see them without NV
the stars that peaked trough the clouds were pretty cool also.

now i get why people say you need to practice with NV, walking is not really hard, but it is a strange feeling... kindoff disorientating..
i also played with the SBR, but didnt shoot it, i can get a decent cheek-weld and i can see the red dot from the MRO on the 2nd NV setting, ill try shooting it this weekend.

other than that, i think the J Arm is a flimsy piece of crap, and i had ordered a noroto mount for the helmet, and after some googling it looks like i trew some money down the drain because its a Gen1, so i ordered a Gen2, and now im shopping for a Mod Armory mount.

i love this stuff, but i think its gonna be way more expensive than SBRs and Suppressors...

 

[DoubleHaul]

Running an x300v..... Surefire makes a diffusor cover as well that works really nicely on those lights - it breaks up the really tight bright spot that's not super useful and gives some nice spill.

Is the F04-A the diffuser you're using? It says for 1.125in bezels? Very interested in adding a diffuser to my helmet mounted v1 vampire and the head diameter matches my x300v.

 

[WillHugh]

Is the F04-A the diffuser you're using? It says for 1.125in bezels? Very interested in adding a diffuser to my helmet mounted v1 vampire and the head diameter matches my x300v.

That's the one! It was slightly too large for my x300v, so I just wrapped some electrical tape around the head to make it fit. Was pretty shocked by how much more usable the light was with the cap on it.

- Will

 

[WillHugh]

so i played last night in the dark.. it was awesome! i have know we have a lot of fireflies, but OMG under night vision i see even more, apparently some only glow weak and you cant see them without NV
the stars that peaked trough the clouds were pretty cool also.

now i get why people say you need to practice with NV, walking is not really hard, but it is a strange feeling... kindoff disorientating..
i also played with the SBR, but didnt shoot it, i can get a decent cheek-weld and i can see the red dot from the MRO on the 2nd NV setting, ill try shooting it this weekend.

other than that, i think the J Arm is a flimsy piece of crap, and i had ordered a noroto mount for the helmet, and after some googling it looks like i trew some money down the drain because its a Gen1, so i ordered a Gen2, and now im shopping for a Mod Armory mount.

i love this stuff, but i think its gonna be way more expensive than SBRs and Suppressors...

Not sure what Norotos setup you're running, but the dual dovetail is the way to go. The tatm and aka2 flip mounts can be setup to use it. Much more stable than the j arm and easy to flip between dominant and non-dominant eye.

- Will

 

[sid]

Not sure what Norotos setup you're running, but the dual dovetail is the way to go. The tatm and aka2 flip mounts can be setup to use it. Much more stable than the j arm and easy to flip between dominant and non-dominant eye.

- Will

right now i have a Rhino Gen1 and Gen2 on the way
last night i used the standard skull crusher with the included J Arm, the helmet is not shipped yet either

is the dual dovetail is better than the Mod Armory J-Arm?

 

[WillHugh]

right now i have a Rhino Gen1 and Gen2 on the way
last night i used the standard skull crusher with the included J Arm, the helmet is not shipped yet either

is the dual dovetail is better than the Mod Armory J-Arm?

Is your rhino 2 setup with a dovetail socket, or just a bayonet connection?

I don't personally have any experience with the Modarmory setup, so I can't speak to its function. The reason I like the dual dovetail is its simplicity - no moving parts, detents, etc. to develop slop. It's a solid center piece with two dovetails on it.

If you're not currently set up with a dovetail socket on your rhino 2 they're easy to add. Google pvs15/pvs18 socket, tnvc has them for sale for somewhere in the neighborhood of $50. There are some videos available to show how to do the conversion (look up rhino 2 dovetail conversion). I'd do a little reading up to make sure it'll work with what you have, but I personally think it's the better way to go.

- Will

 

[sid]

ok, i have following parts ordered:

NOROTOS PVS-15/ PVS-18 SOCKET from TNVC
NOROTOS DUAL DOVETAIL ADAPTER, P/N 1837010 from Ownthenight
NOROTOS Titanium Rhino Mount II from Ebay

total cost just under 300$

this should work correct?

 

[WillHugh]

ok, i have following parts ordered:

NOROTOS PVS-15/ PVS-18 SOCKET from TNVC
NOROTOS DUAL DOVETAIL ADAPTER, P/N 1837010 from Ownthenight
NOROTOS Titanium Rhino Mount II from Ebay

total cost just under 300$

this should work correct?

Should be good to go! I'm using the same setup except with an aka2 instead of the rhino 2. Here's a link to a video of someone doing the conversion.



Good luck! Should be a much better setup than what you were using before.

 

[NHPiper]

Others may have already chimed in on this, but I have found having the ability to quickly focus via a pin hole makes it way easier to do close up manipulations, set up gear, etc. I set my cap up as a Butler Creek flip cap with a pin hole that I drilled to the point where it left an adequate amount of light in and still acted as a daylight filter. With the IR light from even thr pvs14, or one of my head mounted units, it is bright enough to work in close and not have to constantly refocus. I can a clear focus to probably 30 feet before needing more IR illumination that offered by the the mini light on my helmet. If I needed more I could crank on the surefire.

You can kind of see the helmet below. If you want more pics, let me know.

 

[sid]

Nice! Do you remember the size of the BC cap and the hole you drilled?

 

[NHPiper]

Nice! Do you remember the size of the BC cap and the hole you drilled?

It is their 9A size. I put a rap of thin hockey tape over the focus objective to fit it on snugly. I don't recall the pin hole size, but i found a bit that was the same size as the hole on the cover it came with. I took a 3/8 bit on drilled on the backside (not all the way through) it allow slightly more light in.

There is some good info online about this if you do a quick google search. Id start small and open it up as needed.

 

[WillHugh]

09A should do the objective lens. Most people use a hot piece of .223 brass to punch a hole, or a similar size drill bit. Seems to be an ideal diameter for focus distance/ enough light to be usable.

I'm running a Phokus Hoplite on my 14. Same concept but has changeable apertures, and a sacrificial lens. Can be had for $75ish if you shop around.

 

[sid]

Thank you guys!!

Last night I lost 2 chickens, I need my orders to get delivered!!

In the meantime I set up some traps, but I think shooting the chicken murderers would be more better

 

[WillHugh]

I can imagine that'll be gratifying! Chicken murderer won't see you coming.

@NHPiper and I got flanked by a pack of coyotes while we were out target shooting with clipons the other night. Little bastards had no idea what they were sneaking up on, lol.

 

[NHPiper]

Thank you guys!!

Last night I lost 2 chickens, I need my orders to get delivered!!

In the meantime I set up some traps, but I think shooting the chicken murderers would be more better

@WillHugh and i would be happy to come eradicate the predators just tell us where!

 

[sid]

ok, i have following parts ordered:

NOROTOS PVS-15/ PVS-18 SOCKET from TNVC
NOROTOS DUAL DOVETAIL ADAPTER, P/N 1837010 from Ownthenight
NOROTOS Titanium Rhino Mount II from Ebay

total cost just under 300$

this should work correct?

Well, TNVC was super fast, so was eBay, lately everything I order takes a long time to ship, so it was nice to get something shipped fast!

Anyway I started working on the mount.
I had some problems getting the rollpin out of the rhino mount 2 , so I need a new one ( anyone know the size?)
I reused them but it looks bad.

After assembly I noticed I can't use the release from the TNVC with the Rhino anymore, but a Google search gave me the answer, so I milled a slot in the mount:

I'm still missing some shipments, the helmet and the dovetail adapter so I can't use it right now, but I'm really happy how solid it feels.

 

[WillHugh]

Looks like a solid setup! Nice you have tools available to make that mod. Unfortunately don't know the roll pin size, but Norotos has good customer service so I'd give them a shout. Looking forward to a report when it's all operational. I have a set of pvs-15s due in tomorrow that have been out getting serviced for months, feel like a little kid waiting for them to show up.

- Will

 

[sid]

lol i havent really played a lot with my pvs14, and im allready looking at binos ... but i must resist, thermal is next

i only have a small table top mill in the garage, but its perfect for stuff like this! ill google some for the pin sizes and if i dont find it i will pull the pins again and measure it... im just worried that the pin wont survive a second extraction

 

[BamaSE]

Well, TNVC was super fast, so was eBay, lately everything I order takes a long time to ship, so it was nice to get something shipped fast!

Anyway I started working on the mount.
I had some problems getting the rollpin out of the rhino mount 2 , so I need a new one ( anyone know the size?)
I reused them but it looks bad.

After assembly I noticed I can't use the release from the TNVC with the Rhino anymore, but a Google search gave me the answer, so I milled a slot in the mount:
View attachment 7357218

I'm still missing some shipments, the helmet and the dovetail adapter so I can't use it right now, but I'm really happy how solid it feels.

3/32” by 1/4” just picked some up from Fastenal today. They are 2 cent or so a piece and will order some in if you have a local store and they are not in stock.

 

[sid]

3/32” by 1/4” just picked some up from Fastenal today. They are 2 cent or so a piece and will order some in if you have a local store and they are not in stock.

haha awesome!! thanks!!

 

[BamaSE]

haha awesome!! thanks!!

Welcome, just passing it along from others here....there is a video on one of these threads posted by I think by member wherenowandhow with instructions and parts, etc. It is on Youtube if you search for Norotos dovetail adaptor too. Good luck!

 

[sid]

More packages arrived, the 22cal is ready to be sighted in