That looks like an awesome setup! My M&P 15-22 might be my favorite thing to shoot at night. What are you waiting on at this point?
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Night Vision Help me spend my Money efficiently (Lasers and Light)
- Thread starter sid
- Start date
I just got my helmet( mtek flux copy), but I'm not totally happy with it, I think it's too big, so I'll look for a different one later, for now it's a lot better then the scull crusher.
the most important missing piece Is the dovetail mount, I'm still using the J-arm and with the Rhino gen1 it's better then the scull chrusher, but I'm still not happy with it.
Everything else I'm waiting for is not important, just nice to have stuff.
Still haven't bought a laser for the rifle, reason is that I have a buddy that might be able to get me a gray market laser
the most important missing piece Is the dovetail mount, I'm still using the J-arm and with the Rhino gen1 it's better then the scull chrusher, but I'm still not happy with it.
Everything else I'm waiting for is not important, just nice to have stuff.
Still haven't bought a laser for the rifle, reason is that I have a buddy that might be able to get me a gray market laser
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Nice! Sounds like you're almost set then.
Lasers are a tough decision. I have a full power peq, and it's awesome, but I find myself using my dbal 9007 as much if not more (at least with the .22 or sub gun). Entirely dependent on what you're looking to do and what level of risk you're willing to assume (gray market stuff won't be repairable if it breaks). What are your intended uses (guns and distances you're looking to shoot)?
Yes I have everything I ordered but not everything I want
I haven't ordered the laser yet for my main rifle
Here is a picture of my helmet, pts mtek flux
I ran into some snags since the rhino 2 mount didn't fit the shroud, but I fixed that with a file.
And I still wish the helmet was smaller, I have the extra pads in, the straps adjusted to the shortest setting, and when I shake my head the helmet still moves a little too much.
But overall I'm happy with the mounting solution, it's rock solid!
I ran into some snags since the rhino 2 mount didn't fit the shroud, but I fixed that with a file.
And I still wish the helmet was smaller, I have the extra pads in, the straps adjusted to the shortest setting, and when I shake my head the helmet still moves a little too much.
But overall I'm happy with the mounting solution, it's rock solid!
question:
on my 22lr rifle i have the laser mounted to the side:
i went and zeroed it at 24 yards, the red dot and the IR dot point at the same point.
i think im not doing myself a favor with that, while shooting i noticed before 25 yards im shooting left of the target, and past 25 right of the target, this in addition of the bullet drop i feel handicapped
i should put the laser under or over the barrel so i only have to worry about bullet drop correct?
on my 22lr rifle i have the laser mounted to the side:
i went and zeroed it at 24 yards, the red dot and the IR dot point at the same point.
i think im not doing myself a favor with that, while shooting i noticed before 25 yards im shooting left of the target, and past 25 right of the target, this in addition of the bullet drop i feel handicapped
i should put the laser under or over the barrel so i only have to worry about bullet drop correct?
while im at the topic of rifles, i have a suppressed 300BLK SBR thats very fun to shoot, the plan was to use that as a general purpose rifle
now im thinking... i shoot mainly under 100 yards and only subsonic loads with 220gr projectiles
so ammo is heavy, and with a 7.5 inch barrel its not very accurate
im thinking of building a 223 upper, 10 inch or so to get a more flatter trajectory.. alternative i could start loading 110grain projectiles for the 300blk and start shooting that supersonic..
the goal would be to have something up to 200 yards without the bullet drop of a 22cal
what are you guys doing?
now im thinking... i shoot mainly under 100 yards and only subsonic loads with 220gr projectiles
so ammo is heavy, and with a 7.5 inch barrel its not very accurate
im thinking of building a 223 upper, 10 inch or so to get a more flatter trajectory.. alternative i could start loading 110grain projectiles for the 300blk and start shooting that supersonic..
the goal would be to have something up to 200 yards without the bullet drop of a 22cal
what are you guys doing?
Sorry I'm late, but for the record I have a PERST 4 (same as 3 but without the illum lump) and rather love it. A few others grabbed them up also. They work perfectly, I have immersed and frozen mine and everything (in the field, not to test it) and it keeps working. Seems, side by side, as powerful as the PEQ2. Not side by side, but I like it better than MAWL in some ways.
Several things could be improved, somewhere I have a rant about that. I would love it if we could get covers, as I have one I have finagled but it's not great. Anyway, with that there's a safety and an indoor-level illum if you put diffuser on.
Manual is useless, some specs on English sites are misleading. Experience and talking to the distributor in Moscow, I made my own one page manual for it if anyone has one, and a zeroing target. Which is for my gun but should be close for anyone running at 12-o'clock on an AR though.
Several things could be improved, somewhere I have a rant about that. I would love it if we could get covers, as I have one I have finagled but it's not great. Anyway, with that there's a safety and an indoor-level illum if you put diffuser on.
Manual is useless, some specs on English sites are misleading. Experience and talking to the distributor in Moscow, I made my own one page manual for it if anyone has one, and a zeroing target. Which is for my gun but should be close for anyone running at 12-o'clock on an AR though.
You've got a couple options for the laser. Personally I'd mount it on top so your pointer and barrel are in line, and you can activate the switch from both sides of the rifle.
Alternatively, you can do what's called a constant offset - the idea being your laser is some distance (say 2 inches) to the right of your barrel, so you zero your ir dot two inches right of your red dot sight zero. In this scenario your impacts are always two inches left of where you're pointing with the laser, regardless of distance. The offset difference should be negligible in most instances, and is consistent so you don't have to think about the cross over.
I have a .22 and a blackout both setup with civi DBALs. Most of my night shooting is 100 yards and under, and for that they work perfectly. Past 100 yards, in addition to your rifle consideration, you're also going to want a laser setup with a good illuminator (full power peq, DBAL d2, perst 3, or mawl) to be able to see your target. Personally I'd start by getting the laser first and then decide if your current rifles are going to cut it for you, or if you need to look into something else.
Target ID gets difficult with a non magnified nv unit past 100 anyway. Also, I've always figured if I'm shooting at night I want to be quiet. Supressed .22 and 220 subs fit the bill perfectly. I occasionally shoot in the back yard with nods and my girlfriend in the house can only hear the ringing of the steel.
Even for 12-o'clock mounting I am a Very Strong proponent of Constant Offset. It will often be some weird position, not straight up, down, left, or right, which is one reason it's a good idea.
While PID is an issue at night, especially as range increases, it eliminates any weirdness of crossing zeros, etc if you zero for a fixed distance. If you know day zeros and drops, you know the night ones, no new brainpower or an unreadable (it's dark!) cheat sheet to look at. And yeah, the 1-2" you will be offset is not worth holding over on. Just pretend the laser is dead on and fire.
How often does anyone actually shoot at beyond 200 yards with a laser? Is that even a thing? Or even 100 yards?
Not talking target designation for airstrikes here, but what you guys do for reals.
At 200 yards, I can't distinguish my IR laser point from my RDS dot through NODs. Can you?
In a nutshell, that's why I align them at 200 yards. I've shot steel at 100 yards using a laser, but never beyond that. I've never shot a live target over 100 yards with IR laser alone. That means, at 400 yards my laser dot is ~1-2 inches to the left, but since my round has dropped 2-3 feet by then, it's kinda moot.
Enquiring minds want to know.
Not talking target designation for airstrikes here, but what you guys do for reals.
At 200 yards, I can't distinguish my IR laser point from my RDS dot through NODs. Can you?
In a nutshell, that's why I align them at 200 yards. I've shot steel at 100 yards using a laser, but never beyond that. I've never shot a live target over 100 yards with IR laser alone. That means, at 400 yards my laser dot is ~1-2 inches to the left, but since my round has dropped 2-3 feet by then, it's kinda moot.
Enquiring minds want to know.
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regarding 200 yards, i brought that up for a cal.223 rifle build, since that rifle would be used day and night, a capability UP to 200 yards shouldn't be unreasonable.
anyway, i have only shot up to 50 yards at night, and only with the 22cal, and i have to admit i had quite a few misses, some might be due to bullet drop, and some due to the laser topic that i described above. ( definitely no shooter error in any of those misses
anyway, i have only shot up to 50 yards at night, and only with the 22cal, and i have to admit i had quite a few misses, some might be due to bullet drop, and some due to the laser topic that i described above. ( definitely no shooter error in any of those misses
hah i like that option of aligning the laser with the red dot at 200 yards, that would mean the max offset would be around 1 or 2 inches at close range, and the further you go out the smaller that offset gets!
Occasionally with this rig, but admittedly, the thing in front of the scope is the more important piece of hardware
I think you hit the important points here. The laser is just a IR or Visible "Red Dot" with limited effective range using 1x night vision or regular eyes with Vis Point. Yeah people can hit stuff at 300 or 400 "sometimes" but that is not its role.
For me, I make sure that my day optic, Red Dot or other is properly sighted in at longer distance and is accurate. I then pick a constant distance of like 150 yards (you could chose 100, 200 or whatever) and overlap my Vis Point over my day optic. I am able to get that pretty concise due to 3x Magnifier behind Red Dot or LPVO. Then confirm that the IR is hitting correctly at say 150 yards also. Once you have gone through that process on initial setup and picked your distance of intersection between day optic and Laser Beam it is very easy around dusk to always double check that your laser is always still on by picking out a target at 150 yards or the same exact distance as your original setup and make sure that your Vis Point is still overlapping your day optic reticle or Red Dot.
The ability to very easily and quickly double check your laser on a frequent basis is very important so you have knowledge and confidence that it is in fact on. The guys that tout the "Constant Offset" benefit's do not really have that ability so that's why I shy away from that method.
I laugh at those guys getting their panties in a wad talking about the bullet crossing paths with the laser beam. Jeezz, so the laser sits 2 cm offset to the side of the barrel at 12 O clock position. So if you sight in at say 150 yards, (from the muzzle to 150 yard intersection) it keeps getting closer and has to travel out to 300 yards before it is back 2 cm on the other side. We aint shootin the hair off a nat's ass here.
So really, say out to 150 would be the best effective range, but hecque if they want to stretch it on out and hit em 2 cm on the opposite side at 300 that's fine too.
Me personally, past 75 or 100 yards I'm gettin down on some thermal.
Just to prove it can be done, because most of my range shooting is that I have shot, effectively, to 300 yds with the laser and NODs on multiple occasions. Steel is most fun, and that's a 12" plate (with a pretty boring AR), most every shot. the 6" is hard, probably getting to some of the mechanical offset issues, for example, then.
Class 1 lasers or those with dirty optics, etc. won't go that far though unless it's really dark, so there is that.
But regardless of effective range — or legal/ethical/ROE range — still my point stands that I don't have to think about where my laser goes relative to my day sights. Especially useful if I am switching between passive and active aiming. I memorize one set of holdovers when I get beyond point blank range, and it just works.
Do as you all will, but that's my thinking, has worked well for me.
I have shot, effectively, to 300 yds with the laser and NODs on multiple occasions. Steel is most fun, and that's a 12" plate (with a pretty boring AR), most every shot. the 6" is hard, probably getting to some of the mechanical offset issues, for example, then. Class 1 lasers or those with dirty optics, etc. won't go that far though unless it's really dark, so there is that.
But regardless of effective range — or legal/ethical/ROE range — still my point stands that I don't have to think about where my laser goes relative to my day sights. Especially useful if I am switching between passive and active aiming. I memorize one set of holdovers when I get beyond point blank range, and it just works.
Do as you all will, but that's my thinking, has worked well for me.
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