Rifle Scopes Help me understand the S&B P4F

[esheato]

I promise I'm not a dumbshit (dumbshits don't buy S&Bs from what I can tell). I have a S&B 5-25 PMII with the P4F reticle. The mil system is new to me however so the reticle just isn't making sense.

So you have some background, I have several Nightforces and have the MOA system down. I figured the only way to learn the mil system is to just buy the darn scope and figure it out.

I have no problem utilizing MOA optics or the process regarding drop charts and dialing my elevation to get to distance and the difference between FFP and SFP, of which this is the former.

I'm sure you're all familiar with the reticle, but here it is:

From what I've gathered, the spacing on the bottom (O, N, M, L) is for ranging people. This graphic is what I'm talking about.

The graphic makes sense...you bracket them however you can, realize the distance, then hold or dial and press the trigger.

I guess my first question is what is the distance from center of the reticle to the first horizontal hash below center? Or does S&B just assume you'll dial everything to the center?

Also, if you look at the chart at the bottom, it's in cm/100m or in/100y. The scope is in mils, so why does that matter? I guess I'm used to the Nightforce NPR-1 where the spacing is 1 MOA between hashes. The NF reticle reference chart also tells me all the spacing in the same format....MOA.

Anyway, I don't use inches when I'm dialing MOA...I use the reticle to gauge how much I'm off from my first shot (if any) and adjust to get me on target for my second shot. Of course, this is on full power because they're SFP (5.5-22x50 NPR-1, and 2.5-10x32 with NPR-2). Being that the S&B is FFP, I realize I can do that on whatever power I want.

Additionally the S&B adjusts .1 milrad at a time.

Looking at JBM ballistics, these are my options for selecting the units of drop:

Obviously it's not MOA or inches, but with the clicks equaling .1 mil, which one do I select?

So when I calculate on JBM, this is what I end up with:

Looking at the drop, I've selected it to be 1.00 mils. So I end up with nice numbers that I don't know how to find on the reticle.

I hope nobody thinks I'm dumb...I just need a push in the right direction.

I really appreciate the help,

Ed

 

[Jerry R]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: esheato</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess my first question is what is the distance from center of the reticle to the first horizontal hash below center? Or does S&B just assume you'll dial everything to the center?

Obviously it's not MOA or inches, but with the clicks equaling .1 mil, which one do I select? </div></div>

The distance from the center to the first large hash mark and every subsequent large hash mark is spaced in divisions of one mil (dimension G). Smaller hash marks represent .5 mil (dimension H).

Set up your JBM chart in mils as you have shown and just remember that if your scope adjusts in .1 mil increments this will apply if you intend to dial your adjustments. One mil= 10 "clicks".

Hope this helps.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

Don't over think things. It's just a mil based reticle. Like Jerry said the first hashmark off the crosshair is 1 mil. the smaller ones are .5 mils. The really small ones on the far horizontal and top are .2 mils. They are nice to have when ranging. Honestly I have never used the ranging brackets at the bottom as they are only generalizations and I would rather range properly.

On JBM use the mil units. Act like everything else isn't there. I put mil in both columns so as not to get confused although i usually just drop that whole thing in an Excel file and delete everything but the elevation, windage and lead as the other stuff isn't really needed for shooting.

As for finding those numbers on your reticle you just have to learn to break down the reticle. If you are looking for 1.5 mils then you go to the first large line which is one mil and then the next small line which is .5 mils making 1.5 mils hold over or wind. If you need 2.6 mils then you go to 2.5 mils which would be the second large hash mark, 2 mils, and then the next small, 2.5, and then break down the .5 mils between 2.5 and 3 mils to .1 mil marks with your eye and find 2.6.

It takes practice. Go out and practice on the range. You will get it eventually. It's just like breaking down a MOA based reticle but in .1 mils

 

[esheato]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

Awesome...appreciate it.

I don't ever plan to range with it. Have a Leica rangefinder and I'm only doing known distances. I don't foresee tactical competitions in my future either.

I'm currently shooting to 1k with my 243 AI using the MOA based NF. So the long long range isn't new, just using the mil scope is.

Feel free to continue to add to this..I'm always looking for tips or whatever.

Ed

EDIT: So why don't they just tell you it's 1 and .5 mil adjustments? What's with all the cm/100m or in/100yd stuff?

 

[Rob01]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

It's easy to use the reticle for holds, which is what I use it mostly for also. With that .243 AI only needing 6.4 mils to get to 1000 then that's an easy hold over. I did holds to 1000 at a comp in Dec with my .243, which takes about 7.3 mils, and had no problems hitting.

Get out and play with it and it will all make sense.

 

[esheato]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

While I input 243 AI data into JBM, the S&B is actually on an HS 338 LM.

I just happened to know all the 243 AI data off the top of my head.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

Either way the way to hold is the same. Find the spot on the reticle and put it on the target.

Also forgot to mention the much larger line on the vertical below the crosshairs is 5 mils. It makes an easier reference point when finding a hold quicker so you don't have to count far.

 

[esheato]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

I can already see the benefit here.

With my NF MOA optic, I have to dial 22.5 MOA to get to 1k (90 Scenars @ 3386fps).

Looking at the JBM I posted, I'm only dialing 6.4 mils. Shorter amount to dial, quicker and way less hold on the reticle itself.

Interesting.

What's with all the cm/100m or in/100yd stuff on the bottom of the reticle graphic? Just to give you a reference for adjusting while zeroing?

 

[Johnson184]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

There are 10 millimeters in 1 centimeter if that's what you're wondering.

 

[esheato]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

Last question...as far as zeroing the knobs, the directions are a bit less than spectacular.

Zero the rifle
Loosen the allen screws
Pull knobs up
Zero the knob
Push knobs back down
Tighten allen screws

Also, from what I've read, there's a bit (~.5 mil) of movement built into the knob below zero for closer than your zero distance?

Thanks!

 

[Jerry R]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

No need to lift the knobs on the S&B. Just loosen allen screws, turn to 0, tighten the Allen screws and you're GTG.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

After getting zeroed just loosen the allen screws and turn the knob to 0 and retighten. Simple.

Yes there is like .5-.6 mils below the zero point.

 

[shoepop]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: esheato</div><div class="ubbcode-body">*open mouth, insert foot*

I'm sorry, wasn't my intention to offend.

I'll attempt to modify it. </div></div>

Stand up guy, appreciated.

 

[esheato]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

You guys are awesome. Thanks.

 

[Notso]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

Agree with all previous and want to add- stop thinking in terms of clicks. Just think whole mils. IOW, if JBM says to dial in 11.3 mils, dont think thats a 113 clicks, just look at the turret and dial it till its on the 11.3 spot.

One other thing.... I always hold wind - but ive never understood why you would hold elevation UNLESS you are rapidly engaging targets at various ranges. Its so much more precise to dial Not to mention, unless you have a Gen2XR reticle, holding both drop and wind is going to be a crapshoot.

 

[esheato]

Re: Help me understand the S&B P4F

Notso,

I totally agree on all points. I'm already thinking in whole MOAs with my AR (NF 2.5-10 NPR-2) and the 243 AI (NF 5.5-22 NPR-1) so thinking in whole mils shouldn't be a problem.

Actually it makes my head hurt to think about dialing 113 clicks. Just twist to 11 and three more clicks.

Shooting known distances only makes sense to dial elevation, but with the fluctuation of W. Tx wind, I have to hold for windage.

Appreciate the comment.