Help on 7mm matrix 190gr vld load

[7mmVertigo]

I tried posting this in another section but im not getting any replies so i may have posted in the wrong room so i apologize for the redundancy so im hoping a post here will yield some answer for me. Can anyone give opinions/advise on powder types and loads for this bullet? i just bought some matrix 190's and im looking for some reloading advice on where to start. id like these to chrono as close to 3100fps as possible. my barrel is 26" so it shouldnt be too difficult to achieve. Ive read that the berger 180's have good success with 64gr of slow burning IMR4831. any insight would be appreciated. thanks

safe shooting

 

[milo 2.0]

I've been wanting to reply to your thread on 6mmBR, just don't know how to put it. Matrix's bc is listed as static, compared to real world. Your link from Litz shows .673 average bc. Getting 3100 fps seems lofty, given the fact that this bullet has roughly .050" more bearing surface than a Berger 180 hybrid, the hot player right now. To me, if you can't match the 180's speed, you can't beat it.
Here within a couple days we're going to run a test of the two bullets, in a 7mm saum, I'll let you know on velocities and such. We're not going to shoot them at distance yet, maybe later.
You never had mentioned whether this is a target, or hunting load.

 

[7mmVertigo]

this is a target load and that would be great if you clould share your experience with me. i'd be greatful. i have about 70 or so of the berger 180's but i saw these and jumped at the opportunity to try out a heavier 7mm round. Ive heard a rumor that berger is releasing a 195 gr hybrid but so far its still a rumor. But any info you provide will be greatfully appreciated.

 

[milo 2.0]

The last I heard, Litz said all bullet development was on the backburner, 195gr 7mm included, may be over a year out. But Berger's bullet will be a longer heavier bullet, with a higher bc, something the Matrix failed to do. Be glad you found them though, Matrix can't get jackets right now, I've heard the same from Berger, ugly!

It's not my first bit of info on the 190 in a saum, but the guy loading them is horsing the piss out of them, something I don't recommend.
I'll keep you posted, we might run pressure test and chrono today.

 

[milo 2.0]

Vertigo,
We tested the bullet yesterday, didn't go head to head against the berger 180, no use, there's no supply to be had, so moot point.
In the saum, we can run it safely at 2840, thought we were going to come in at 2900, but after more testing we found pressure.

Using Quickload, a 180 vld will travel 100fps faster with 10k less pressure?? The only powder we tested was Ramshot Magnum, only thing available right now. Yes, diff powders will give diff results, but IMHO, this isn't a fast bullet.

 

[7mmVertigo]

yeah im starting to see that. i will say im hoping to get a little more pressure variation since im not using a short action, ill loading for a long action 7mm RM, and ill be doing seating depth changes if i have to. im working with my buddy and a gentleman i ran into on 6mmbr to develope a load close to 3050 preferraly 3100 fps. But from what im hearing and reading ill be happy with 3k. Ill definately keep you up to date and if you have a break through i'd love to hear it. I have a feeling ill be rebarreling into a 7mm RUM to achieve my numbers. When and IF berger ever releases that 195 im wondering if we are going to run into the same issue or will they make it a hybrid with the multi ogive design to help with pressure and engaging the lands.... guess we'll see. cant wait till that asshole is out of office so we can get back into normal supply with shooting materials.....

 

[Wild_Bill]

Hi I have run the 190 matrix at 2980fps in a 32" 9 twist benchmark barrel in a SAUM and using Retumbo pressure was fine you need slow powder and barrel length to make them work.

 

[7mmVertigo]

wow that's definately a barrel. any ideas on how a 28" 1:9.5" twist would perform? Damnit i know this bullet has potential we need to find the right mix... So just sent the ballistician at matrix ballistics an email... lets here it from the horses mouth eh boys!? Lets see what they recommend. ill post his reply as soon as i get it.

safe shooting ya'll

 

[7mmVertigo]

hey everyone check it out they replied already and it looks like i'll be rebarreling, this was my email:

hello my name is scott and i recently purchased your 190vlds as has several of my buddies who do long range shooting with me. we are struggling with your bullet and looking for some help. After exensive R and D on our behalf we are coming up with pressure and performance differences between the matrix 190 and the berger 180 which are all favoring the bergers. we are seeing 100 fps more with a 10% less pressure with the bergers. now is that a product of the increased grains? I personally am using h1000 powder, with federal brass and my chamber holds a 7mm Rem Mag Long Action case h2o capacity is at 84. my barrel is 1:10 twist 26" but i plan on rebarreling soon. whats your twist and length recommendation? My goal for this bullet is a 1000 - 1200meter shot repeatable. I would like to achieve 3050 to 3100 (preferrably) FPS for your bullet however the best we are achieving is roughly 2905 fps. my seating depth is 0.010 from the lands. and hodgdons manual calls for 63.2 gr for the 180 berger vld so im thinking 61.4 with the matrix? Please let me know who i can speak with to solve these questions if you can not. thank you for your time.

I will post your reply for fellow shooters interested in your bullet. thank you.

Matrix replied with with this email:

Hi Scott,

They difference is the 10 extra grain and an additional .035 bearing surface if your talking hybrids.
Your 10 twist is not enough twist for either of those bullets to be competitive.
2950 would be a more realistic velocity, and try a jump of .030

Are you throated for the long vlds?

28-30" bbl 8.5 being the fastest I would suggest and 9 being the slowest.

Thanks, Marshal

looks like wild bill hit it right on the head....

 

[creids98292]

I run them at 3017fps jumping .020 and 77.6grs of Retumbo in my Dakota. Its an awesome bullet, killed 2 deer last year with them. Also stabilized them in a 280 ack at 2521fps at sea level. Ive been running Marshals bullets for 3 years now, nothing but good luck!
Chris

 

[elmerdeer]

I run them at 3017fps jumping .020 and 77.6grs of Retumbo in my Dakota. Its an awesome bullet, killed 2 deer last year with them. Also stabilized them in a 280 ack at 2521fps at sea level. Ive been running Marshals bullets for 3 years now, nothing but good luck!
Chris

Chris whats your barrel length on your Dakota? I have A Dakota too, 25" Krieger 8.5twist and im getting 2950 average with h1000 and retumbo both between 73-74.5 grains max, after that I get pressure a lot... My reamer is a PTG minimum spec.
Also I'd like to know how anyone could get any higher speeds without a much longer barrel and bigger caliber?
Thx
Elmer