Help with AR scope mount

C

Caliper

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Minuteman
Nov 12, 2013
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#1
Ok, looking for a scope mount for my new DMPS G2 .308... What I want is a 30mm mount that puts the centerline of the scope 1.25" above the rail and has a good forward offset so I can shoot with my nose at the charging handle, or a bit past it (my glasses have a scratch from the rear of a carry handle sight, yes that was with an A2 stock). Does such a thing exist?

The Armalite mount looks good for height, except every time I see one with a scope, the eyepiece is back at the charging handle which won't work for me. When I find a mount with a nice forward cantilever, it seems to be 1.5-1.6" above the rail which means I have a pretty light cheek weld. Does anyone else have this problem?
 
#2
Badger Ordnance makes their unimounts in 1.30" heights, 30mm, 20MOA cant, with about 1.5" forward cantilever. See here:

Triad Tactical, Inc.*::*Badger Ordnance*::*Badger Bases*::*Badger 1 Piece Assembly, 20 MOA, 1.30", 30mm

Also, NF makes their unimounts in both a low, 1.125" and 1.375", 30mm, 20MOA cant, with both a standard cantilever and an even greater extended cantilever. See here:

Ultralite Unimount | Nightforce Optics, Inc.

You can also go with an cantilever riser like the one from Badger Ordnance. Its 22MOA cant with enough offset, depending on what scope you are using, to get your eyepiece forward a good ways. Pair that riser with a set of Seekins or other "low" rings and you get a 0.43" riser and a set of 0.82" rings putting you right at 1.25" total height.
 
#3
Depends on scope dimensions and eye relief needed. It is simple math if you know the numbers. If you don't know the numbers you will never get an educated answer to your question. GH
 
#4
GH41: Thought I outlined the numbers fairly well in the first post, but here are some measurements with a scope mocked up on the rifle. Obviously not shooting it this way with only one ring on the rail, but the eye relief and height are great. The scope would have to move forward 0.5" from the location shown in the attachment because the Vortex I'm looking at has more eye relief than the cheapo in the pic.

ORD, I think I'm liking the idea of a cantilever rail and low rings. Not as tacticool as a one piece solution, but it will match my other scoped rifles where I needed a cantilevered rail to get the scope where it should be.
 

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#5
Scope mounts for ARs often mount the scope at 1.5", because that generally is the correct height for a scope on an AR 15. I have a SB Short Dot in a Larue SPR-E that I shoot nose to charging handle and the height is perfect. I had a USO 2.5-10X in an ADM Recon on an LMT MWS, and the height was perfect. I even bough a Larue RISR thinking the mount would be too high, and with the RISR, I couldn't get low enough. I just mounted a Leupold Mark 6 3-18X in a Recon 34 mm, which is also perfect. I see the Larue SPR-E or the extended ADM Recon (forget what it's called) as something you should check out. 1.25" is way to low for me on an AR, but if it works for you, then the Badger looks like a good option.

To me, adding an additional two connections with a rail riser and rings is not the way to go.
 
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#6
DWood said:
Scope mounts for ARs often mount the scope at 1.5", because that generally is the correct height for a scope on an AR 15.
Click to expand...

AR iron sights are 1.4" (nominal, depending on what the rear sight is set at) and I've always felt the cheek weld was so-so with irons. OK for .223, but this is .308...

I agree more attachments is not ideal, but turkey neck and cheek weld put my eye further forward and lower than for most I guess? I added a pic to my post above to show where scopes end up on my rifles.
 
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#7
Caliper said:
ORD, I think I'm liking the idea of a cantilever rail and low rings. Not as tacticool as a one piece solution, but it will match my other scoped rifles where I needed a cantilevered rail to get the scope where it should be.
Click to expand...

I have used the combination of the Badger 22MOA Riser and the Seekins rings on several rifles will excellent results. Provided you don't want/need QD, it is a great setup. Once everything is mounted up and torqued down solid, its more or less a 1pc mount anyway in my experience. Its also nice because unlike a 1pc mount where you are more or less stuck with x-height of the mount, once you get the 0.43" riser installed, you are left to your own devices to pick the corresponding rings that get you an optimum height for your rifle/optic/position on the rifle. I still run this exact setup on my POF P-308.

HOWEVER...with as much forward cantilever as you appear to need based on your pic, you are more likely than not going to have to source a different riser than the Badger as it won't get you anywhere near the amount of additional real estate you need to get your optic pushed forward. Have a look at the following which is more or less the same concept and quality, but in a longer forward rail section/cantilever:

White Oak Armament | High Power Accessories | Extended Scope Rail | 20 MOA

There are other options on the market, but the WOA, in my experience, is very well made and mounts up solidly.
 
#8
I've always felt the 1.5 "standard" was WAY too high. I feel like I'm floating above the stock. Maybe with something like a PRS stock it would be ideal, but not with your typical AR15 stock.

Larue makes a 1.2 something QD mount, should that be needed. Otherwise, I'd look at the Badger mount.
 
#9
It may just be me, but with a 308 I went with a stock that allows me to get my face a bit away from the charging handle. My nose is somewhat softer than aluminum, I have found.
 
#10
Caliper said:
GH41: Thought I outlined the numbers fairly well in the first post, but here are some measurements with a scope mocked up on the rifle. Obviously not shooting it this way with only one ring on the rail, but the eye relief and height are great. The scope would have to move forward 0.5" from the location shown in the attachment because the Vortex I'm looking at has more eye relief than the cheapo in the pic.

ORD, I think I'm liking the idea of a cantilever rail and low rings. Not as tacticool as a one piece solution, but it will match my other scoped rifles where I needed a cantilevered rail to get the scope where it should be.
Click to expand...

Key word.... a scope. Your measurements mean nothing if the scope pictured is not going on the rifle. Your options are limited by the slick hand guard on that rifle. GH
 
#11
Caliper said:
AR iron sights are 1.4" (nominal, depending on what the rear sight is set at) and I've always felt the cheek weld was so-so with irons. OK for .223, but this is .308...

I agree more attachments is not ideal, but turkey neck and cheek weld put my eye further forward and lower than for most I guess? I added a pic to my post above to show where scopes end up on my rifles.
Click to expand...

ADM 30 mm Recon on an LMT .308 was perfect for me heightwise.
 
#13
#14
hlee said:
It may just be me, but with a 308 I went with a stock that allows me to get my face a bit away from the charging handle. My nose is somewhat softer than aluminum, I have found.
Click to expand...

I was just about to type something along those lines.

da-da-damn, I don't even shoot my 24" ARMALITE AR-10T with my nose touching the recoil reminder.
 
#15
Caliper said:
Thanks for the help, just ordered this rail. Looks like WOA gives 9 additional rail slots in front of the first slot so I'll have plenty of room.
Click to expand...

Did you give up on your height requirement? That base with the lowest rings I know of is going to put the center of your scope at 1 5/8" above the receiver. GH
 
#16
hlee, David, the key is having your neck already stretched out, or "turkey necked". Since your head is already all the way forward, when the rifle recoils your head and the rifle move pretty much together. The beauty is that I can close my eyes and place my head on the stock this way and the eye relief is right on every time, even with the picky eyebox on the cheap Centerpoint scope in the pic above. This is for prone/seated positional shooting with a sling so it's a bit different than bipod shooting. When shooting from a bipod, my body is more squared up to the rifle instead of indexed around so the charging handle falls further away then. If the CH does punch me though, I guess I'll have to pick up the thicker buttpad for the MOE stock to get a bit more space!

GH41, thanks for looking out for that, but I think I'll be fine. My cheekbones haven't moved so I have not changed my height requirement ;) I just called WOA and they say the rail adds "about 3/8"" to the receiver. Midways catalog is full of 1/4" (base to saddle) 30mm rings. So, 3/8" + 1/4" + 15mm = 1.216"
 
#17
Caliper said:
GH41, thanks for looking out for that, but I think I'll be fine. My cheekbones haven't moved so I have not changed my height requirement ;) I just called WOA and they say the rail adds "about 3/8"" to the receiver. Midways catalog is full of 1/4" (base to saddle) 30mm rings. So, 3/8" + 1/4" + 15mm = 1.216"
Click to expand...

In my experience, and without one in front of me to confirm/refute at the moment, the WOA riser rail is approx. 0.425" tall (receiver rail top to riser rail top...roughly the same height as the Badger riser). Combine that with a set of Seekins low rings which we were talking about in another post and you come in at ~1.245"...move up to Seekins mediums if it happens to be closer to WOA's measurement they gave you and you are looking at a ~0.375" riser with a set of 0.87" rings which still puts you at 1.245"! ;) I think you'll be ok!
 
#21
Not sure about the red dot either. I set my scope based on consistent and natural eye relief which ends up with the ocular bell right above the charging handle. This keeps my nose out of the way.
 
#22
No, my head is in the same place on the rifle whether red dot, irons or scope. Where my head ends up is a result of my body geometry, index angle to the rifle, stock length and somewhat the comb shape (my head is slighty further forward on a M4 type stock where the cheek weld is against the bare buffer tube than with the MOE fixed stock).

So, it's true I hadn't shot the rifle yet. Slapped a simple fixed 4x off another rifle on there and put a round downrange (DPMS says to clean between each shot for the first 25, may as well). It's fine. Between the sling and my neck being fully extended, my face and the charging handle stay comfortably apart. Actually, there's not really all that much recoil anyways. This rifle is going to be fun in a rapid fire string...
 
#23
I have a 308 and a 6.5C and neither really recoil. The CTR feels best one click from fully extended. The 308 is scoped right at the charging handle and I am waiting on a Vortex for the 6.5C but they share a lower. Likely end up placing the scope the same.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
#24
DWood said:
Scope mounts for ARs often mount the scope at 1.5", because that generally is the correct height for a scope on an AR 15. I have a SB Short Dot in a Larue SPR-E that I shoot nose to charging handle and the height is perfect. I had a USO 2.5-10X in an ADM Recon on an LMT MWS, and the height was perfect. I even bough a Larue RISR thinking the mount would be too high, and with the RISR, I couldn't get low enough. I just mounted a Leupold Mark 6 3-18X in a Recon 34 mm, which is also perfect. I see the Larue SPR-E or the extended ADM Recon (forget what it's called) as something you should check out. 1.25" is way to low for me on an AR, but if it works for you, then the Badger looks like a good option

To me, adding an additional two connections with a rail riser and rings is not the way to go.
Click to expand...

I have both the LaRue SPR-E (on my POF P-308) and the ADM Recon mount (HK MR 762) and they both wk out fine for mr.
 
#25
#27
If you're still looking:
one piece, 30mm, 1.26" above the rail, plenty of forward offset, QD lever. There is one caveat however; you'll be mounting it backwards. There is no cant though so it won't make any difference.
Link

I use one of these mounted backwards on one of my ARs and it works surprisingly well. I followed the instructions for the QD lever to a T and I get better return to zero with this mount than I have with ADM or Larue mounts (no experience with Bobro).
 
#30
bp7178 said:
I'm pretty sure its mounted backwards to work on the M14, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

It was specifically designed to be mounted on the M14 and to extend rearward. So technically, if you flip it around so it's mounted to extend forward, it is mounted backwards. If you look at their other accucam mounts, the lever is on the left side...
 
#31
Well, the WOA rail arrived. Looks great, nicely machined with a good finish and fits tight on the rifle. The rail adds about 0.5" to the sight height at the rear of the rail. I say at the rear because I got the 20MOA version, but the rear of the rail is where it matters for getting the right scope height for my eye...

The rail even has the center of the ribs cut down for greater scope clearance, which is a good thing because with the low rings I'll be using the clearance between the eyepiece and the rail will be tight. I tried mounting a 1-4x scope last night and found that the approx 2" diameter of the ocular housing prevented using low rings entirely. A common 3-9x scope (1.5" ocular) fits for now, but doesn't have tons of clearance... Of course, I'll never be using the slots at the rear of the raill anyways so if I need more clearance they can always be milled off if I need more clearance later.
 
#32
Exo said:
Holy shit!! Larue is pretty proud of that mount arent they?!?! $135 for a 13 slot piece of metal??? You can go get a Leupold mount for less than $100...im not trying to bag on anyone, and i suppose everyones motives may vary, but HOLY CRAP!!!
Click to expand...

Not baggin'?

$85 for the WOA and its simplistic and efficient locking nuts & bar mechanics vs Mark's $135 QDSL rig. I push electrons around for a living but understand machine time is money and half-a-da-da-damn-heartbeat QD is even more money.

Purchasing the VFZ mount system brings Mark's LT101 down to $80 plus Dillo dust, stickers, hat, ...

Yeah, your scrotum is in your hand and you AIN'T even close to Mark's nose.

As for motive: Mark's on his $5 less than the WOA mount? Profit while making a better product.

Your's?

anim_rofl2.gif
 
#33
DavidAR10 said:
Not baggin'?

$85 for the WOA and its simplistic and efficient locking nuts & bar mechanics vs Mark's $135 QDSL rig. I push electrons around for a living but understand machine time is money and half-a-da-da-damn-heartbeat QD is even more money.

Purchasing the VFZ mount system brings Mark's LT101 down to $80 plus Dillo dust, stickers, hat, ...

Yeah, your scrotum is in your hand and you AIN'T even close to Mark's nose.

As for motive: Mark's on his $5 less than the WOA mount? Profit while making a better product.

Your's?

anim_rofl2.gif
Click to expand...

Well excuse me da-da-da-DavidAR10...your all holiness pushing electrons around for a living and being able to talk prices and dillo-dust just totally excommunicated me...

Why dont you just shut up and let someone have an opinion on something? Im not wasting anymore time with this topic sir...
 
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#34
Love the ADM Recon on my 308 AR and the ADM ReconX on my m4. I will be doing the ADM Recon X on my new GII when it gets here. I do however wish they were closer to 1.2 instead of 1.46.
 
#35
Exo said:
Well excuse me da-da-da-DavidAR10...your all holiness pushing electrons around for a living and being able to talk prices and dillo-dust just totally excommunicated me...

Why dont you just shut up and let someone have an opinion on something? Im not wasting anymore time with this topic sir...
Click to expand...

7337388_gal.jpg


nite nite.
 
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