Help with fire forming

[Jesse_Nichols88]

Hey everyone. I was lucky enough this weekend to score a 300 Norma improved in a trade. I was going to build a 300 Norma this year so I feel like this worked out. Anyway, I have some questions because this is my first wildcat. I have no idea how to fire form the brass for this. I’ve never done it before.

The package came with 48 fire formed brass, 300 new 300 normal brass, a little over 100 423 Dakota brass, whidden dies for the 300 NI +P, 338 Norma dies and the 423 Dakota. Also came with the reamer and go/no go gauge.

I’m just not sure where to even start with this thing. I’m super excited about it but also know I could tear some shit up if I’m not careful. It’s built around a Badger m2013 action with a proof barrel and manners stock. If anyone can send me some reading material or would be willing to kind of help me along that would be great. Bonus points if we can have a little over 150 pieces ready in 3 weeks for KRG. If I can’t I’ll run my old trusty win mag for the matches this summer. Thanks!

 

[Oryx]

Often times you can fire form by shooting standard ammo in the improved chamber... However, I'm not all that familiar with the 300 Norma.

Have you asked the previous owner what his process was?

 

[waveslayer]

Honestly the time and money.... just work up two loads, one that's improved and one that's standard.

This way you get to enjoy shooting your new gun and fire form. I started to do that with my 338 nmai and had a great time doing it


Or buy a hydro forming did

 

[supercorndogs]

A properly set up Ackley chamber should be a slight crush fit on the parent case. For fireforming 243ai I just used a little less than book max for my components for a 243 win and shot them. Then I did work up from there with the fireformed cases.

 

[demarpaint]

Honestly the time and money.... just work up two loads, one that's improved and one that's standard.

This way you get to enjoy shooting your new gun and fire form. I started to do that with my 338 nmai and had a great time doing it

I agree. That's what I do, with a slightly reduced load for my wildcats that required fire forming.

 

[Ronin22]

So, its a balancing act. Gotta shoot the fireform case with enough pressure to get a good/complete fireform, but not overdo it. Before I started loading my first improved cartridge, I read all I could on the topic and an important aspect never came up until I was into my experimenting. That aspect is this: The fireforming process soaks up pressure to blow/flow the brass to the new case. Then the improved case has more case capacity and we think more powder. Well, Maybe a little more powder, and maybe not.

That stouter initial charge to form the case now fired in the improved case, there's no more flowing of brass to soak up pressure. One could easily be at the max charge already and adding more powder will be bad, or really shortening the life of the case.

 

[Jesse_Nichols88]

Honestly the time and money.... just work up two loads, one that's improved and one that's standard.

This way you get to enjoy shooting your new gun and fire form. I started to do that with my 338 nmai and had a great time doing it


Or buy a hydro forming did

Ok so I have a question to this then. With the shoulder bump gauge the improved brass measures out at 2.111 and the normal is at 2.020. Isn’t that way too big of a jump? If I’m working up two loads to just shoot won’t I have case head separation?

 

[Mudflap621]

Best way to check is to strip the bolt and chamber the factory brass to see if there’s any resistance or if bolt drops free.

 

[Jesse_Nichols88]

I did talk to the previous owner and he is going to get me all the information today on what his process was. Once I get it I’ll double check back here and see what the story is. I shot the rifle this morning and it did pretty good so I am excited about the idea of having this ready to go for KRG

 

[RegionRat]

The decision to wildcat should be well thought out before you are pregnant.

The designs of wildcats are not standardized to the point of SAAMI/CIP and will require some background in the difference of how to manage the balance of fireforming versus shooting the fully formed cases. There are so many variations in wildcats with near identical names that you really must know the reamer design details.

Once we get past the concept of how many shots to take virgin, versus fully formed.... we end up with needing to know how the wildcat chamber compares to the parent brass.

Worth your effort to ask the previous owner all their prep and load recipe details.

Ask for their particular fireforming method and recipe. There is more than one way to prep and the reamer details will often mean one way is better than another.

If they don't give you all those details, circle back and ask again.

 

[Jesse_Nichols88]

I’ve honestly got half a mind to sell the proof carbon fiber with all the dies and brass and get a regular 300 Norma for it

 

[Long Range 338]

A properly set up Ackley chamber should be a slight crush fit on the parent case. For fireforming 243ai I just used a little less than book max for my components for a 243 win and shot them. Then I did work up from there with the fireformed cases.

^^^ This.

You need to do some investigation before diving headlong into reloading for your improved chamber. If (and not guaranteed to be so) the chamber was cut as an "improved" chamber, your neck/shoulder junction should crush a tiny bit while chambering a factory round. The crush holds the cartridge firm against the bolt face while your fire forming load blows the shoulder forward and takes out some of the body taper.

If your chamber is more "custom", you'll need to put a false shoulder into the case or seat your bullets fully into the lands to hold the cartridge in place while fire forming....

300NM Imp is a great round but probably not the greatest to learn how to fire form on. Proceed carefully with good quality brass and you should be fine.

 

[Jesse_Nichols88]

^^^ This.

You need to do some investigation before diving headlong into reloading for your improved chamber. If (and not guaranteed to be so) the chamber was cut as an "improved" chamber, your neck/shoulder junction should crush a tiny bit while chambering a factory round. The crush holds the cartridge firm against the bolt face while your fire forming load blows the shoulder forward and takes out some of the body taper.

If your chamber is more "custom", you'll need to put a false shoulder into the case or seat your bullets fully into the lands to hold the cartridge in place while fire forming....

300NM Imp is a great round but probably not the greatest to learn how to fire form on. Proceed carefully with good quality brass and you should be fine.

Got the rifle in a trade and was really after the action. The original plan was for after Nightforce this year to build a 300 Norma. So once I got this one I thought “sweet! Rifle for next year!” And before I got home from the trade I was trying to figure out how to make it work for this year

 

[Jesse_Nichols88]

Ok so here’s what I’ve come up with. I have 300 245 grain bergers. I’m going to sacrifice a case and figure out exactly where to seat that bullet where it’s jammed into the lands. 60 grains of H4350, send it, check for separation and proper forming. Also going to pull the ejector off the bolt. Anyone have an objections to this?

 

[Jesse_Nichols88]

Then I’ll do load development on the formed brass with n570

 

[waveslayer]

Ok so I have a question to this then. With the shoulder bump gauge the improved brass measures out at 2.111 and the normal is at 2.020. Isn’t that way too big of a jump? If I’m working up two loads to just shoot won’t I have case head separation?

Nope. I have done this in 2 rifles. It's the shoulders angle that is being pushed out, not the actual shoulder, so you can shoot both fine.