Help with identifying a FN FAL

[J-P]

Hi guys

(My first post here, trust it's appropriate and in the right place - please correct me if not)

I have an option to purchase a FN FAL with serial number G142XX - can anyone provide any insight into this rifle at all?

Some pics attached...

Thanks!

JP

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I'm no expert, but a few observations:
Metric pattern FAL rifle
Obviously a FN receiver
has an early style takedown lever
a Type C1 butt-stock (believe these are early style)
Closed ear gas block
I believe it's a standard height rear sight, hard to tell from pictures.
Long belgian flash hider

I'm wondering if it's a Belgian import. From what I can tell, it's a nice rifle.

 

[shoobe01]

Appears to be the second most desirable FAL there is in the US. Early "G-series" FALs are actually on an ATF waiver (there may be a better term) but are (+/-?) entirely un-modified from their mil issue variants, so are pretty easy to convert to select fire. So: the most authentic ones that exist. This seems to be a later import (likely 1970s, maybe early 80s) from the higher SN, so will not be readily converted which is fine.

Are there importer marks, or just the FN Belgium stuff?

Check for other serialized parts (or last 2-3 of the s/n) and see if it is a matching gun, or was built/converted from a receiver. I am not sure where they come from, but there are late G-series receivers used to build other FALs so you'll want to know if this is an unknown workshop kitbashing exercise (likely fine still) or an Actual FN Herstal Gun.

Aside from owning a couple, helped a friend who is a mid-level expert but I am NOT an expert: but I believe the "non-matching" wood butt and plastic handguards/grip are correct for these guns and may not indicate any end user messing with it.

 

[cas6969]

second most desirable FAL there is in the US.

Is he?

 

[J-P]

I'm no expert, but a few observations:
Metric pattern FAL rifle
Obviously a FN receiver
has an early style takedown lever
a Type C1 butt-stock (believe these are early style)
Closed ear gas block
I believe it's a standard height rear sight, hard to tell from pictures.
Long belgian flash hider

I'm wondering if it's a Belgian import. From what I can tell, it's a nice rifle.

Hey thanks man It's in South Africa (as am I) and does appear to be a Belgian import - and I'm guessing not a South African made R1 - which I would imagine would have different markings, but not 100% sure at this stage - still digging...

 

[J-P]

Appears to be the second most desirable FAL there is in the US. Early "G-series" FALs are actually on an ATF waiver (there may be a better term) but are (+/-?) entirely un-modified from their mil issue variants, so are pretty easy to convert to select fire. So: the most authentic ones that exist. This seems to be a later import (likely 1970s, maybe early 80s) from the higher SN, so will not be readily converted which is fine.

Are there importer marks, or just the FN Belgium stuff?

Check for other serialized parts (or last 2-3 of the s/n) and see if it is a matching gun, or was built/converted from a receiver. I am not sure where they come from, but there are late G-series receivers used to build other FALs so you'll want to know if this is an unknown workshop kitbashing exercise (likely fine still) or an Actual FN Herstal Gun.

Aside from owning a couple, helped a friend who is a mid-level expert but I am NOT an expert: but I believe the "non-matching" wood butt and plastic handguards/grip are correct for these guns and may not indicate any end user messing with it.

Thanks for your comprehensive response! What is the MOST desirable one pray tell??

The serial number on the left of the receiver behind the selector switch and underneath next to the mag well are the same. Have not checked the barrel for a serial # number yet, but will.

 

[Happiness Is A Warm Gun]

Love FALs and used to own a couple. I bet you have access to a lot of cool stuff in South Africa that would cost a small fortune here given it was (is?) an issued rifle to police/military and you were next door to Rhodesia.

 

[shoobe01]

Hey thanks man It's in South Africa (as am I) and does appear to be a Belgian import - and I'm guessing not a South African made R1 - which I would imagine would have different markings, but not 100% sure at this stage - still digging...

Sorry. Though I do lots of international/global work, very used to all these fora being US only so never remember to check.

Certainly not a locally-produced gun, as FN didn't set up the factory but licensed Lyttleton, so it wouldn't say FN and Belgium for 100% sure.

I'm extra not an expert on ZA guns, but I am not aware of any R1 series gun being imports either. So... commercial import? Serial seems high for a testbed or pre-R1 import. Maybe someone wanted one for themselves, or to outfit a private security company or a regional Commando, when the factories were too busy with military orders???

...What is the MOST desirable one pray tell??

The 1,836 unmodified G series that are allowed to exist. Or, what few of those remain that were not converted to select fire before May '86. Not many of them about. I have seen exactly one, was not allowed to touch it.

The Diamond of Collector FALs: The G-Series - Forgotten Weapons

https://youtu.be/7c0tiiBY494 When the Browning Arms Company first began importing semiautomatic FAL rifles from FN in 1959, the submitted an example for evaluation, and ATF determined that it was not a machine gun. The rifle was made with a selector that could not be moved to the fully automatic...

www.forgottenweapons.com

 

[mtrmn]

I don't really know anything about FALs, but I found the caliber 308 marking to be curious. I would think they would be marked 7.62?

 

[cas6969]

The way around some prohibition on evil weapons of war perhaps and designate it as a sporting rifle?

 

[shoobe01]

A few more thoughts while reading up on it, not able to go to sleep:

• With the two cartridges broadly interchangeable, and FN for a long time configuring their guns to shoot both interchangeably AFAIK, .308 is likely just an indicator this is a non-military contract, commercial gun.
• It is a Type II receiver. Produced between about 1962 and 1973.
• The FNH factory markings changed in late 1971 to the style shown. So: 71-73 ish mfg date.
• I found a serial lookup tool that is no help at all. FAL serials were sequential. Serial 500100 is the 500 thousand 100th gun made. They got through a few tens of thousands in the first year of production so your serial makes no sense. I presume the G prefix means something I don't yet understand as the collectible G-series FALs in the US market ruin the ability to search the internet for that prefix.
• "South African 7.62mm FAL's were Belgian production metric models, engraved with the South African crest." Which I have found nowhere else. Plus the commercial caliber is odd. No ZA crest I missed is there?

 

[MSTN]

A Belgian FN FAL Model 50.00 with highly desirable Type 2 receiver.

Your rifle is very similar to this 1971 U.S. import (one of just 50!) by a guy with the last name ROGAK in 1971. Even though these rifles have a "G" prefix, they are not what U.S. collectors and the ATF refer to as "G Series rifles".

I'm a relative FAL novice with a few books. I've been fortunate to have some nice FAL's pass through my hands. The real experts are over on The FAL Files - https://www.falfiles.com

 

[J-P]

Sorry. Though I do lots of international/global work, very used to all these fora being US only so never remember to check.

Certainly not a locally-produced gun, as FN didn't set up the factory but licensed Lyttleton, so it wouldn't say FN and Belgium for 100% sure.

I'm extra not an expert on ZA guns, but I am not aware of any R1 series gun being imports either. So... commercial import? Serial seems high for a testbed or pre-R1 import. Maybe someone wanted one for themselves, or to outfit a private security company or a regional Commando, when the factories were too busy with military orders???



The 1,836 unmodified G series that are allowed to exist. Or, what few of those remain that were not converted to select fire before May '86. Not many of them about. I have seen exactly one, was not allowed to touch it.

The Diamond of Collector FALs: The G-Series - Forgotten Weapons

https://youtu.be/7c0tiiBY494 When the Browning Arms Company first began importing semiautomatic FAL rifles from FN in 1959, the submitted an example for evaluation, and ATF determined that it was not a machine gun. The rifle was made with a selector that could not be moved to the fully automatic...

www.forgottenweapons.com

Hey thanks for that man, all adds to my knowledge - very useful...

 

[J-P]

A few more thoughts while reading up on it, not able to go to sleep:

• With the two cartridges broadly interchangeable, and FN for a long time configuring their guns to shoot both interchangeably AFAIK, .308 is likely just an indicator this is a non-military contract, commercial gun.
• It is a Type II receiver. Produced between about 1962 and 1973.
• The FNH factory markings changed in late 1971 to the style shown. So: 71-73 ish mfg date.
• I found a serial lookup tool that is no help at all. FAL serials were sequential. Serial 500100 is the 500 thousand 100th gun made. They got through a few tens of thousands in the first year of production so your serial makes no sense. I presume the G prefix means something I don't yet understand as the collectible G-series FALs in the US market ruin the ability to search the internet for that prefix.
• "South African 7.62mm FAL's were Belgian production metric models, engraved with the South African crest." Which I have found nowhere else. Plus the commercial caliber is odd. No ZA crest I missed is there?

Where would the ZA crest normally be found if there was one?

 

[J-P]

View attachment 7971270View attachment 7971271View attachment 7971272View attachment 7971273View attachment 7971275

A Belgian FN FAL Model 50.00 with highly desirable Type 2 receiver.

Your rifle is very similar to this 1971 U.S. import (one of just 50!) by a guy with the last name ROGAK in 1971. Even though these rifles have a "G" prefix, they are not what U.S. collectors and the ATF refer to as "G Series rifles".

I'm a relative FAL novice with a few books. I've been fortunate to have some nice FAL's pass through my hands. The real experts are over on The FAL Files - https://www.falfiles.com

That's gorgeous! Looks like it's straight out of the factory and never even be handled, let alone fired!

 

[J-P]

what is this other number?

 

[pmclaine]

Latest article about SA inclines me to believe you need to buy two......and lots of ammo.

 

[J-P]

Latest article about SA inclines me to believe you need to buy two......and lots of ammo.

Hahaa yes indeed! And probably if you're in the US too

 

[shoobe01]

what is this other number?

THAT would be the "normal" FNH production serial, finally!

Per the ARES lookup, that's lining up with stamping and feature dates:

 

[shoobe01]

Where would the ZA crest normally be found if there was one?

Cannot fid a good photo of an intact one (and plenty of photos of for-sure ZA issue rifles with nothing there, or a whole paragraph of rollmarks instead) but a big one would be here where they removed before surplussing (or the story goes: deniability when sen to the Rhodesians but that seems dumb).

 

[J-P]

THAT would be the "normal" FNH production serial, finally!

Per the ARES lookup, that's lining up with stamping and feature dates:
View attachment 7971812

I think it's 918395... Can you send me the link for that lookup?

 

[J-P]

Perhaps, you won't mind posting it to fnforum. Lot of knowledge there in regars to FN gun.

Already did

 

[shoobe01]

I think it's 918395... Can you send me the link for that lookup?

FAL Year of Production Estimator - Armament Research Services (ARES)

To use this tool, simply enter a serial number from a Belgian FN Herstal FAL rifle. The primary serial number will be located on the right-hand side of the receiver, if present (see photo below). The tool will calculate the rifle’s year of production, as well as providing an estimate month of...

armamentresearch.com

 

[J-P]

FAL Year of Production Estimator - Armament Research Services (ARES)

To use this tool, simply enter a serial number from a Belgian FN Herstal FAL rifle. The primary serial number will be located on the right-hand side of the receiver, if present (see photo below). The tool will calculate the rifle’s year of production, as well as providing an estimate month of...

armamentresearch.com

Thanks

 

[J-P]

How much as this been fired in your opinion? (The seller is asserting it's not been used.)

 

[J-P]

More...

 

[shoobe01]

Asserting it is NEW or that HE has not fired it? Because it's been fired more than just factory test. Not a lot I tend to say, but definitely at least a couple hundred rounds.

 

[MSTN]

The bright spots on the bolt and bolt carrier are caused by the cycling of the weapon's action. This can result from actually shooting the thing, or merely from opening the action to check to ensure that the gun is unloaded. In the course of half a century, it's likely that this safety check was performed many times.

The clean bolt face does not look like that of a firearm that has seen many - if any - rounds fired.

The easiest way to tell if an FAL has seen many rounds fired is to check the finish of the weapon's receiver to the rear of the ejection port. As the brass is ejected, it removes the finish from the metal here.

FAL's with little to no use will look like this:

 

[J-P]

The bright spots on the bolt and bolt carrier are caused by the cycling of the weapon's action. This can result from actually shooting the thing, or merely from opening the action to check to ensure that the gun is unloaded. In the course of half a century, it's likely that this safety check was performed many times.

The clean bolt face does not look like that of a firearm that has seen many - if any - rounds fired.

The easiest way to tell if an FAL has seen many rounds fired is to check the finish of the weapon's receiver to the rear of the ejection port. As the brass is ejected, it removes the finish from the metal here.

FAL's with little to no use will look like this:

View attachment 7975079View attachment 7975080View attachment 7975082

Thanks man... Beautiful specimens!

 

[gamewarden]

LAV on the G Series

 

[RTESantaFe]

The bright spots on the bolt and bolt carrier are caused by the cycling of the weapon's action. This can result from actually shooting the thing, or merely from opening the action to check to ensure that the gun is unloaded. In the course of half a century, it's likely that this safety check was performed many times.

The clean bolt face does not look like that of a firearm that has seen many - if any - rounds fired.

The easiest way to tell if an FAL has seen many rounds fired is to check the finish of the weapon's receiver to the rear of the ejection port. As the brass is ejected, it removes the finish from the metal here.

FAL's with little to no use will look like this:

View attachment 7975079View attachment 7975080View attachment 7975082

Here’s a photo of my March 1961 G Series import. Acquired it last year from the dealer rep of the 98 YOA original owner.