Starting new thread since the most recent one I saw is several years old. Thought there maybe be new tips on how you approach a mover stage. Looking for strategies, what you do for wind, and lastly, is there a way to train for movers without having a mover?
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PRS Talk Help with movers
- Thread starter KYyeeter
- Start date
Line up to the middle of the berm so you can swivel to the left limit and right limit to track the target easier. I almost always start with a 1.5 Mil lead to center unless someone I know well has told me different, or it looks like its going extra fast or slow (this observation comes with time). Also, Some people's time from the brain telling the finger when to pull is faster than others, and their lead will be less. Watch really well on the first shot and see if you hit the target, if so, where? If not, were you in front or behind and adjust your lead accordingly. I track the target across the berm, get in front of it by 4-5 mils, and then trap it ( break the shot when it crosses the point on my reticle where it should hit the target).
I usually dial my wind so that the hold ends up being the same both ways. Especially if you have just shot a stage next to it and have the wind call.
Francis Colon has a powerpoint slideshow of a mover that you can load on your laptop and dryfire with a IDTS or IOTA lense adapter. I think he has, or is about to release it on his and Chad Hecklers Miles to Matches FB page.
I usually dial my wind so that the hold ends up being the same both ways. Especially if you have just shot a stage next to it and have the wind call.
Francis Colon has a powerpoint slideshow of a mover that you can load on your laptop and dryfire with a IDTS or IOTA lense adapter. I think he has, or is about to release it on his and Chad Hecklers Miles to Matches FB page.
Ok so dialing wind on a mover confuses me. I’m a math dummy until I see it wrote out. Let’s say for example we have .4 wind from left to right. The mover is moving left to right. The lead is 1.5 not counting wind. How would you dial to make your lead the same? .2? That would make it 1.7 both ways right?
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If you don't dial wind....you'll have two different total offsets for the two different directions of travel. Assuming the wind is consistent.
IF you dial elevation and wind on a stationary target....where do you put the crosshair? Center of the plate.
Now the plate moves left to right and right to left over a span. Where do you put the crosshair? Leading or ambushing the target the appropriate amount for said speed and time of flight. That amount is the same.
If you didn't dial out the wind. Say the needed wind hold was 0.5 left mils for this example. And the lead being 1.5 mils for the movement. The one direction would have you adding the wind. The other direction would have you subtracting the wind.
So the total compensation would be 2.0 mils for one direction. And 1.0 mils for the other.
If you dial out the wind....its always 1.5 mils lead.
The real problem comes when the wind is changing direction and speed. And you only have so much time or passes to engage the target. And you have some lag time typically from when your brain says fire and your gun actually goes off.
You need to be a bit forgiving in the hold and make sure your having good follow through. Watching where your rounds are impacting so you add/subtract lead on the fly in the event of a miss. EXPECT a miss. And be ready for it.
All good suggestions. There are methods for timing a mover through 10+ mils and dividing to get mils/second of movement and then multiply by time of flight and adjust for reaction time. To do that in a match you would need to be pretty good at mental math or have a spotter with a reticle. Some places have 2 guys on the line at once, so you have the guys run before you to get a feel for things.
The swag method is to get a feel for the time of flight and watch how far the target moves in the scope during that time. That becomes your lead and you adjust from there. This method is easiest to develop if you have access to a mover.
The suggestion to start at 1.5 mils is not bad. I will say that it is rare that the mover is actually moving the speed they tell you. I have seen the error both ways, and I can usually tell before I shoot. Another thing to watch out for is the hitch in the giddy-up. Some mover set-ups for whatever reason will speed up and slow down throughout their travel. In most cases it is not enough to cause a miss. My guess is uphill one direction and downhill the other.
I have found npa to be a big deal with movers. It made the difference between missing a shot or 3 and shooting clean on your typical lay down and shoot 10 or 12 shots mover stage. Don't try to position your npa at one point in the center and rotate. You need to reposition to the correct npa for every shot.
I would like to always dial the wind hold if possible. I only remember one time when I didn't. The stage was an orchestrated train wreck. 2 shots at 400 yds on a stationary target from a prop, move to a different position on the prop and shoot 2 shots at a stationary target at 600, pull mag, run to top of tower, insert mag, shoot coyote mover at 500something yds 5 times, shoot 3 target tyl at 800 yards one shot each. 12 rounds 120 seconds. I did not dial windage for the mover on that stage. I did, somehow, manage to clean it. I had 2 seconds left at the end of the stage.
The goal of some match directors is to force you to throw all the conventional cheats out the window. Movers are fun, but unless you are a top shooter they will not make or break your match. Typically, if you can spot your misses most people get a decent score as all you have to do is lay in one position and shoot.
When mover stages get complicated there are usually some points in the stage that do not involve the mover target.
The swag method is to get a feel for the time of flight and watch how far the target moves in the scope during that time. That becomes your lead and you adjust from there. This method is easiest to develop if you have access to a mover.
The suggestion to start at 1.5 mils is not bad. I will say that it is rare that the mover is actually moving the speed they tell you. I have seen the error both ways, and I can usually tell before I shoot. Another thing to watch out for is the hitch in the giddy-up. Some mover set-ups for whatever reason will speed up and slow down throughout their travel. In most cases it is not enough to cause a miss. My guess is uphill one direction and downhill the other.
I have found npa to be a big deal with movers. It made the difference between missing a shot or 3 and shooting clean on your typical lay down and shoot 10 or 12 shots mover stage. Don't try to position your npa at one point in the center and rotate. You need to reposition to the correct npa for every shot.
I would like to always dial the wind hold if possible. I only remember one time when I didn't. The stage was an orchestrated train wreck. 2 shots at 400 yds on a stationary target from a prop, move to a different position on the prop and shoot 2 shots at a stationary target at 600, pull mag, run to top of tower, insert mag, shoot coyote mover at 500something yds 5 times, shoot 3 target tyl at 800 yards one shot each. 12 rounds 120 seconds. I did not dial windage for the mover on that stage. I did, somehow, manage to clean it. I had 2 seconds left at the end of the stage.
The goal of some match directors is to force you to throw all the conventional cheats out the window. Movers are fun, but unless you are a top shooter they will not make or break your match. Typically, if you can spot your misses most people get a decent score as all you have to do is lay in one position and shoot.
When mover stages get complicated there are usually some points in the stage that do not involve the mover target.
Movers are all about 2 things: tracking and ambush. (Well, 3 things, because as @DFOOSKING said, you'll need to add/subtract wind too usually.)
The tracking part is how you find out how fast the mover is going. When I've shot movers at K&M they've always put it out there and you can just input that (5mph IIRC). But, if that's unknown, then IMO the easiest way to do this is to buy/use a solver that will let you input MRADs per second (MRAD/s), Strelok Pro does this (not sure about the others). You use your reticle as a ruler, timing how long it takes for the mover/target to traverse one MRAD, hash to hash. You can use the stopwatch on your phone, or the military guys usually have words/phrases they memorize that equal certain lengths of time. The tracking part is what gives you your lead (plus/minus wind).
For the second part, you ambush the mover by getting out in front of it, and when the front edge of the target hits your lead (plus/minus wind) you pull the trigger.
The first time I'd shot movers, ever, no practice, never done it before, I went 9/10, 6 months later, the second time I'd ever shot movers, in pouring rain and with a couple of tenths of wind, I went 7/10, so it's not as hard as you might think. If you get the lead right (tracking), when the mover hits the line you're waiting on, you pull the trigger like you're supposed to, and voila... that's it.
FWIW, IDK if I would ever dial wind for this because IMO it's confusing enough already since it's out of the norm and IMO easier to remember two average holds (right/left) and then just adjust for wind on the fly. If I were to dial wind and it didn't work, I'd probably be all fucked up after the first miss lol. YMMV.
This is a good video on it:
The tracking part is how you find out how fast the mover is going. When I've shot movers at K&M they've always put it out there and you can just input that (5mph IIRC). But, if that's unknown, then IMO the easiest way to do this is to buy/use a solver that will let you input MRADs per second (MRAD/s), Strelok Pro does this (not sure about the others). You use your reticle as a ruler, timing how long it takes for the mover/target to traverse one MRAD, hash to hash. You can use the stopwatch on your phone, or the military guys usually have words/phrases they memorize that equal certain lengths of time. The tracking part is what gives you your lead (plus/minus wind).
For the second part, you ambush the mover by getting out in front of it, and when the front edge of the target hits your lead (plus/minus wind) you pull the trigger.
The first time I'd shot movers, ever, no practice, never done it before, I went 9/10, 6 months later, the second time I'd ever shot movers, in pouring rain and with a couple of tenths of wind, I went 7/10, so it's not as hard as you might think. If you get the lead right (tracking), when the mover hits the line you're waiting on, you pull the trigger like you're supposed to, and voila... that's it.
FWIW, IDK if I would ever dial wind for this because IMO it's confusing enough already since it's out of the norm and IMO easier to remember two average holds (right/left) and then just adjust for wind on the fly. If I were to dial wind and it didn't work, I'd probably be all fucked up after the first miss lol. YMMV.
This is a good video on it:
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There's no real secret and mover's aren't hard.
The important part is getting the speed/hold, and deciding if you like to track or ambush, and your personal reaction time.
Many use a hybrid form where they track the move to always keep it in their FoV, then jump out in front, stop, and ambush when it crosses the proper hold.
- speed: it may be given, you may need to use formula/time, or you may just have to take your best guess. The first two are easy and formulas are easy to google. The last is what would happen when a target appears and you don't have any time to do anything but shoot. For this, you would use pre figured holds for average walk/jog/run holds for your intended target. And adjust if you miss and have time to take another shot
- track/ambush: personal preference. Tracking requires you to continue moving after you take the shot or you will stop during the shot and miss. So you need to figure out which works for you.
- personal reaction time: some people react and pull the trigger faster/slower than others. This is why you can have the exact same rifle and different leads for two different shooters.
It's always nice to find a place that has a mover clinic you can pay a fairly cheap fee for to use the movers for a day.
Otherwise, the best way to practice is the same as every other shot. Focus fundamentals. You can also set a timer or shot clock or just do a drill in your head where you say "now" in your head or out loud and break the trigger at that exact moment.
As that's what a mover is all about. Fundamentals and trigger press timing.
You can dial the wind out if the wind is steady and you will have the same hold each way. Or you can use two different holds depending on direction of travel. That is completely personal preference. Don't listen to anyone who says either is "better" or "easier" as a blanket statement. It's whatever you find more comfortable.
You'll find that movers are just a mental hurdle and are quite easy overall.
The important part is getting the speed/hold, and deciding if you like to track or ambush, and your personal reaction time.
Many use a hybrid form where they track the move to always keep it in their FoV, then jump out in front, stop, and ambush when it crosses the proper hold.
- speed: it may be given, you may need to use formula/time, or you may just have to take your best guess. The first two are easy and formulas are easy to google. The last is what would happen when a target appears and you don't have any time to do anything but shoot. For this, you would use pre figured holds for average walk/jog/run holds for your intended target. And adjust if you miss and have time to take another shot
- track/ambush: personal preference. Tracking requires you to continue moving after you take the shot or you will stop during the shot and miss. So you need to figure out which works for you.
- personal reaction time: some people react and pull the trigger faster/slower than others. This is why you can have the exact same rifle and different leads for two different shooters.
It's always nice to find a place that has a mover clinic you can pay a fairly cheap fee for to use the movers for a day.
Otherwise, the best way to practice is the same as every other shot. Focus fundamentals. You can also set a timer or shot clock or just do a drill in your head where you say "now" in your head or out loud and break the trigger at that exact moment.
As that's what a mover is all about. Fundamentals and trigger press timing.
You can dial the wind out if the wind is steady and you will have the same hold each way. Or you can use two different holds depending on direction of travel. That is completely personal preference. Don't listen to anyone who says either is "better" or "easier" as a blanket statement. It's whatever you find more comfortable.
You'll find that movers are just a mental hurdle and are quite easy overall.
Follow up shots on movers are where fundamentals all come together in the ultimate test.
If you're not able to spot exactly where you miss, your followups won't be good. It's very easy to think you missed behind a target and you actually missed in front.
Hence why just hammering all the fundamentals is the best way to practice a mover.
If you're not able to spot exactly where you miss, your followups won't be good. It's very easy to think you missed behind a target and you actually missed in front.
Hence why just hammering all the fundamentals is the best way to practice a mover.
Dunno if your matches allow for it, but if you have an option prior to the shooting of the stage. If you are running a Kestrel there is an option to measure the speed of a mover in it. You would need to lay behind your glass and measure how many mills of travel is in your glass and input it. It will give you the speed once you do the work with the Kestrel. From there you would load the speed in the kestrel and it will give you the lead of the mover.
That’s what I use is Strelok. It’s pretty great. The only the mover page lacks is it doesn’t account for wind but other than that it’s pretty handy.
Training idea:
roll (empty) oil drums down hill. shooter is 75* offset, setting up a safe line of fire away from the guy that lets the drum go. Tape a paper target to the facing end to record impacts. Vary angle of hill for faster and slower movers. Use ATV to recover and reset the barrels. Safety first, as always.
Because I'm blessed with lots of hills, I run this one out of my farm all the time. Drum gets shot to sh*t but they can take a rounds before its KO'ed. Again, safety first.
roll (empty) oil drums down hill. shooter is 75* offset, setting up a safe line of fire away from the guy that lets the drum go. Tape a paper target to the facing end to record impacts. Vary angle of hill for faster and slower movers. Use ATV to recover and reset the barrels. Safety first, as always.
Because I'm blessed with lots of hills, I run this one out of my farm all the time. Drum gets shot to sh*t but they can take a rounds before its KO'ed. Again, safety first.
Or you could just do what the local PD here did when they had a class for the area snipers. They pounded two tposts about 40' apart on the 100yd line. Hung a wooden pallet from the middle of a really long rope and use pulleys attached to each tpost to pull the pallet parallel to the firing line. Paper targets stapled to the pallet.
One officer would walk/pulling the rope rearward away from the firing line for one direction....and another officer would then walk/pull the other end of the rope to go the other way.
One officer would walk/pulling the rope rearward away from the firing line for one direction....and another officer would then walk/pull the other end of the rope to go the other way.
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Shooting at moving targets can be tricky, but you've got some great insights here! Leading the target and adjusting for wind are key strategies, and it's smart to watch for any changes in speed or direction. Maintaining a solid natural point of aim is crucial for accuracy. Though math can help, developing a feel for timing and observing the target through the scope is a valuable approach. And remember, expect a miss and adjust on the fly! Dialing wind hold can be beneficial whenever possible. Mover stages can be fun yet challenging, but don't worry—they won't make or break your match. Stay focused, spot your misses, and you'll do great! Keep practicing and enjoy the shooting experience! 
It's best to sort everything through the boxes and write what's in them. Start doing all preventively, if you think it's quick and easy, that's not) and throw away the things you didn't have used for a long time, most likely you won't need them anymore, and you won't even struggle with moving them
