Rifle Scopes Hensoldt and S&B

[Rob01]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tunneling bugs some people and doesn't bother others at all. I hate tunneling, no S&B 20X for me.</div></div>

The 3-20x S&B has no tunneling.

 

[Flynn]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

I pulled the trigger on a S&B 3x12x50 PMII with the P4 reticle. Given my multipurpose use and given that I'll probably not shoot further than 800 meters, it should meet my needs well...I hope

 

[hyena74]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tunneling bugs some people and doesn't bother others at all. I hate tunneling, no S&B 20X for me.</div></div>

The 3-20x S&B has no tunneling. </div></div>

with the new s&b 3-20x, is there any reason at all to consider the 3-12 or 4-16 in your opinion as you have some experience with the 3-20.

 

[bm11]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

The reason to choose the 3-12 or 4-16 is because you actually can HAVE the scope, where the 3-20 is a unicorn scope.

 

[jbell]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason to choose the 3-12 or 4-16 is because you actually can HAVE the scope, where the 3-20 is a unicorn scope. </div></div>
That just pisses you off dosent it. So your still wanting one hua?

 

[Flynn]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

I would certainly have waited for the 3x20 if If anyone had a definite availability time. The folks at euro and sport optics are guessing it's 1st quarter 2012. When they are released, I'll have to get one and move the 3x12 to my 30.06.

I was looking for a 4x16 with the P4 (not fine), but these are not readily available. I suspect the 3x12x50 S&B is fully capable of meeting my use: Hunting and steel out to 900 yards..

The TRG22 should be in my hands next week and the scope this week. I ordered the Talley rings for this rig. Thanks for all the feedback..I would probably been happier with the Hensoldt, but considering everything and the additional 800$ cost is more than I can bear currently. Thanks again..

 

[Aries64]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was looking for a 4x16 with the P4 (not fine), but these are not readily available. I suspect the 3x12x50 S&B is fully capable of meeting my use: Hunting and steel out to 900 yards... </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Flynn,

Since you want a PMII 4-16X, I suggest that you buy a PMII with the no-longer available in PMII scopes Premier Gen 2 XL reticle. The Gen 2 XL is my favorite reticle in the PMII 4-16X because the reticle thickness is very well balanced for the 4-16X's magnification range (P4F can be a little hard-to-see at low power and/or in low light, and while the P4 is great for hunting and fast acquistion it just plain sucks for precision because the width of the main lines is .240". The Gen 2 XL's line thickness subtension is between the P4 and the P4F, so it strikes an excellent balance between the P4 and the P4F.

Mile High Shooting is selling a BNIB PMII 4-16X 50 with the Gen 2 XL in their <span style="font-style: italic">S&B 4-16X50 PMII LP GENII XL NIB</span> thread. You gotta be quick here dude!

<span style="font-style: italic">Some reticle specifics of the Gen 2 XL:</span>

- 0.2 MIL diameter DOTS at the MILs', and Hashes at the 0.5 MIL

- "Solid" crosshair instead of the "floating" crosshair of the P4F and P4

- The Gen 2 XL has the the CENTER, the first 4 MILDOTS' of Elevation, and the first 2 MILDOTS LEFT and 2 MILDOTS' RIGHT illuminated (instead of only the "floating" crosshair as on the P4F and P4)

- The Gen 2 XL DOES NOT have the outermost MIL broken-down into 0.2 MIL increments (as on the P4F and P4)

- Main Line widths of .216"/0.06 MIL at 100 yards (P4F is .126" and P4 is .240")

<span style="font-style: italic">Premier Reticles Gen XL PMII 4-16X Reticle Diagram:</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">Schmidt Bender PMII P4F Reticle Diagram:</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">Schmidt Bender PMII P4 Reticle Diagram:</span>

Keith</span>

 

[adam1122]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

Can't go wrong with either piece of glass. These things go for 3k forma reason.....they are built for extreme precision.

I've had both a sb short dot (clearest glass I have ever looked through) and a custom built USO sn-3.

Buy quality optics. It makes a difference.

 

[jasonk]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason to choose the 3-12 or 4-16 is because you actually can HAVE the scope, where the 3-20 is a unicorn scope.</div></div>

LOL

Now the other real factor in the equation is the unicorn killer that Hensoldt is rumored to be working on. The power range is supposed to start below 4x and go up to the neighborhood of 26x.

Makes you go hmmmm......doesn't it

 

[Flynn]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

I already ordered the 3-12x50 with the P4. This site secured the choice for me. P4 vs P4F

 

[heron163]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason to choose the 3-12 or 4-16 is because you actually can HAVE the scope, where the 3-20 is a unicorn scope.</div></div>

LOL

Now the other real factor in the equation is the unicorn killer that Hensoldt is rumored to be working on. The power range is supposed to start below 4x and go up to the neighborhood of 26x.

Makes you go hmmmm......doesn't it

</div></div>

it was supposed to be announced at SHOT I am told but nothing was... I asked around, could not get a definitive answer so I "compromised" with a Premier... If the scope ever does leave legend status, I will be very interested in comparing,,,,

 

[jbell]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason to choose the 3-12 or 4-16 is because you actually can HAVE the scope, where the 3-20 is a unicorn scope.</div></div>

LOL

Now the other real factor in the equation is the unicorn killer that Hensoldt is rumored to be working on. The power range is supposed to start below 4x and go up to the neighborhood of 26x.

Makes you go hmmmm......doesn't it

</div></div>

Jason now thats just wrong, why do you have to say stuff like that around here. Now we are all going to be worked up for the next year or two

.

 

[Emouse]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

Tracking,...Several Hensholdt users ( professional end users) have reported tracking issues with their scopes. Has anyone here carefully checked the actual click to measurement adjustment and return to zero over a period of time in use?? Is this a known issue??

I have the SuB 5-25 X 56 second focal P4F and am looking at a 4-16 Hensholdt with the NH1 ret, as a next purchase.

 

[bama110]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

I have checked the tracking on mine and they are dead on. I have never heard of a tracking issue?

I did see a s&b lock up at the July mammoth match.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason to choose the 3-12 or 4-16 is because you actually can HAVE the scope, where the 3-20 is a unicorn scope.</div></div>

BM11, it's not a unicorn scope. It will be out. The NF "Beast" super scope was in development for atleast a year before the S&B 3-20 and I don't see all the crying over it not being out. Have some patience. Not like you don't have a scope to use. I want one too but it will show up when it shows up.

Sometimes you guys sound like Veruca Salt

 

[sawhornsoff]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

I've handled a sample 3-20 and it will be worth the wait.

 

[bm11]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason to choose the 3-12 or 4-16 is because you actually can HAVE the scope, where the 3-20 is a unicorn scope.</div></div>

LOL

Now the other real factor in the equation is the unicorn killer that Hensoldt is rumored to be working on. The power range is supposed to start below 4x and go up to the neighborhood of 26x.

Makes you go hmmmm......doesn't it

</div></div>If they make it, with a decent reticle, I will own it.

 

[bm11]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

BM11, it's not a unicorn scope. It will be out. The NF "Beast" super scope was in development for atleast a year before the S&B 3-20 and I don't see all the crying over it not being out. Have some patience. Not like you don't have a scope to use. I want one too but it will show up when it shows up.

</div></div>LOL, I hear you, but you have a lot more patience than me. Its worth making fun of at this point- what is it, four times it has been pushed back now? I remember when they were supposed to be in stock a year ago, dealers were taking pre orders with deposits in July of 2010.

I'm not bent out of shape by any extent of the imagination, but at the same time, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[bward]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reason to choose the 3-12 or 4-16 is because you actually can HAVE the scope, where the 3-20 is a unicorn scope.</div></div>

BM11, it's not a unicorn scope. It will be out. The NF "Beast" super scope was in development for atleast a year before the S&B 3-20 and I don't see all the crying over it not being out. Have some patience. Not like you don't have a scope to use. I want one too but it will show up when it shows up.

Sometimes you guys sound like Veruca Salt

</div></div>

The reason no one has complained about the Nightforce scope is because Nightforce doesn't keep realeasing a deadline for delivery they can't meet and aren't taking preorders. It's nice to see Hensoldt taking Nightforce's lead on this one. Between the 1-8 short dot and 3-20 release dates, and my scope that has been in for repair for over 6 months that they aren't even sure where it is; I've lost a lot of faith in S&B.

 

[dpreston]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

the tracking on my NH-1 hensoldt was perfect. however spendingthat much coin, I expected more from it. I just sold it and replaced it with a NF. I am actually happier with the NF's and S&B's then my hensoldt.

 

[poison123]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dpreston</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the tracking on my NH-1 hensoldt was perfect. however spendingthat much coin, I expected more from it. I just sold it and replaced it with a NF. I am actually happier with the NF's and S&B's then my hensoldt. </div></div>

What more were you expecting.....from it?

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dpreston</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the tracking on my NH-1 hensoldt was perfect. however spendingthat much coin, I expected more from it. I just sold it and replaced it with a NF. I am actually happier with the NF's and S&B's then my hensoldt. </div></div>

What more were you expecting.....from it? </div></div>

Get ya laid?

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dpreston</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the tracking on my NH-1 hensoldt was perfect. however spendingthat much coin, I expected more from it. I just sold it and replaced it with a NF. I am actually happier with the NF's and S&B's then my hensoldt. </div></div>

What more were you expecting.....from it? </div></div>

Get ya laid? </div></div>

Page 37, Paragraph 4 of the instructions...

 

[dpreston]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

well for one, the customer service was terrible. I never did get ahold of anyone. I left multiple voice messages with hudisco and PMed HDC Deadly.... no response. paying 3000+ for an optic, you would think the turret caps would line up with the markings. not a big deal I guess but it's annoying when everything is on 1/2 hashmarks. the glass was no different than my schmidt's. I also couldn't get used to the post reticle.

and in response the page 37 paragraph 4, that would befunny if it actually came with any sort of book or instructions. apparently they forgot to put it in. so that was my experience paying 3400 for a scope.... I'll stick to my S&B's

 

[holy cow]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

I would love to have 1 of these scopes and will get 1, but after reading through all of this i am so fucked up now on which way to go i am going to have to buy both. That just sucks!

 

[poison123]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dan Tucker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would love to have 1 of these scopes and will get 1, but after reading through all of this i am so fucked up now on which way to go i am going to have to buy both. That just sucks! </div></div>

I'd take it all with a grain of salt. I've never had a problem with any of the 4 scopes and spotter 60 I've owned. And amazingly enough could always get a hold of Deadly within 12 hours ON HERE when he still worked for them.

 

[Flynn]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

Is the tunneling with the S&B more prevalent on certain models? Is this an issue with the 3-12x50?

 

[The Shottist]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I already ordered the 3-12x50 with the P4. This site secured the choice for me. P4 vs P4F </div></div>Did you buy from them?
I noticed that they only take wire transfer for payment. That sounds like a scam site.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dpreston</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well for one, the customer service was terrible. I never did get ahold of anyone. I left multiple voice messages with hudisco and<span style="font-weight: bold"> PMed HDC Deadly</span>.... no response. paying 3000+ for an optic, you would think the turret caps would line up with the markings. not a big deal I guess but it's annoying when everything is on 1/2 hashmarks. the glass was no different than my schmidt's. I also couldn't get used to the post reticle.
</div></div>

Not that I don't agree with you about getting through to someone. But correct me if I am wrong, you were waiting on a replacement turret(windage and elevation), right? When you and I PM'ed back and forth I told you that I was waiting on them to show up from Germany. Germany can't just overnight them to us, they throw it in with an order that we placed. At the time you caught Zeiss Optronics/HuDisCo in a transition period of Nathan going to be the VP at Optronics, and the Hensoldt line going to Zeiss Sport Optics. But to say that you and I didn't have communication is a little out there. Im not arguing at all with you but just stating the facts. If you called the shop and left messages I don't know what was happening, but if my memory is correct it was during a time where Nathan was out of town every week and I was damn near doing the same.

Hope all is well.

 

[bm11]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the tunneling with the S&B more prevalent on certain models? Is this an issue with the 3-12x50? </div></div>It is certainly more prevalent on the 5-25x56 than with the 4-16x50 (I can say this for sure, having owned two 5-25's and one 4-16.) I would imagine that it is even less on the 3-12.

 

[Flynn]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Shottist</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I already ordered the 3-12x50 with the P4. This site secured the choice for me. P4 vs P4F </div></div>Did you buy from them?
I noticed that they only take wire transfer for payment. That sounds like a scam site. </div></div>

No, I bought from sportoptics. The site helped me determine/confirm my reticle choice.

 

[Flynn]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Flynn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the tunneling with the S&B more prevalent on certain models? Is this an issue with the 3-12x50? </div></div>It is certainly more prevalent on the 5-25x56 than with the 4-16x50 (I can say this for sure, having owned two 5-25's and one 4-16.) I would imagine that it is even less on the 3-12. </div></div>

This is comforting, thank you..

 

[Rob01]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

Flynn the tunneling is made more out of than it is. You still have the lower power and a good amount of FOV. With the 5-25 it is below 7x that it is noticeable. The 3-12x will be much less and not a problem.

 

[dcjs]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

5-25x56 FOV simulation on 5x without tunneling and with tunneling. FOV is 76 mrad on the left and 53 mrad on the right. There is a 2x difference between the areas covered by the FOV. It's up to the individual user what to make of this of course.

 

[SurgeonPredator]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

Compared to which scope, David? Hensoldt vs S&B?

 

[Rob01]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

Actual picture from a 5-25x56 on 5x at 400 yards. Closer to about 58 mils FOV which is about 69.6 feet. Would be about 17.4 feet at 100 yards. But as mentioned the 3-12 is not nearly as pronounced. The 3-12 at 3x has about 36 feet of FOV at 100 yards.

 

[dcjs]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SurgeonPredator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Compared to which scope, David? Hensoldt vs S&B? </div></div>

That would be the Premier on the left. For a meaningful comparison you need to have two scope models starting at the same magnification. The point was just to show what tunneling does to the FOV and how it affects the ability to pick up stuff in the periphery of the target area. Not so relevant on a one-way range, but potentially crucial when you have to observe a scene, watch for bystanders (two or four legs), backstop etc.

Rob's picture shows why tunneling normally only becomes apparent when people pick up the actual scope. Cropping away the black around the actual FOV completely removes the information about the perceived effect, and doing comparison shots through different scopes that realistically show this is difficult at best, hence the animation.

A video like this one (watch for the image "moving away" towards the end, moderate effect) would be kind of helpful.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tracking,...Several Hensholdt users ( professional end users) have reported tracking issues with their scopes. Has anyone here carefully checked the actual click to measurement adjustment and return to zero over a period of time in use?? Is this a known issue??
</div></div>

About 2 years, going strong, my 3-12 has shown no problems with RTZ or wandering click values. It's been run up and back many, many times, always spot on.

Good to know on the 3-20 S&B. I've always liked their glass and turrets, might have to look at one. The tunneling, as said above, isn't a big deal, it just bugs some people. I am one of them.

 

[HuDisCo]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rancid Coolaid</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tracking,...Several Hensholdt users ( professional end users) have reported tracking issues with their scopes. Has anyone here carefully checked the actual click to measurement adjustment and return to zero over a period of time in use?? Is this a known issue??
</div></div>

About 2 years, going strong, my 3-12 has shown no problems with RTZ or wandering click values. It's been run up and back many, many times, always spot on.

Good to know on the 3-20 S&B. I've always liked their glass and turrets, might have to look at one. The tunneling, as said above, isn't a big deal, it just bugs some people. I am one of them. </div></div>

Been off the board a while. Just came accross this...

We never did have a scope returned with mechanical issues, tracking or otherwise. Don't know what reports you have heard, but we have never experienced anything like what is described above.

 

[HuDisCo]

Re: Hensoldt and S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwp475</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwp475</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everything about the Hensoldt is better than the S&B with the exception of the reticle. If you put a great reticle in the Henny it's the #1 scope. </div></div>


Yea, right. I have some ocean front property for sale in Utah</div></div>

I guess my owning of both and using them in competitions doesn't qualify me to express an educated opinion. Instead we'll just go with your opinion which is what.....? </div></div>

I'd have no problemif you stated that you prefered certain features of the Hensholdt over the S&B, but you made the claim that Hnesholdt is BETTER IN EVERY WAY now you are caliming it is in your opinion

Which is it "in your opinion" or is it a fact. One is provable and the other isn't

I guess that our Military choose the S&B because it is inferrior to the Hensholdt in every way. Right

</div></div>

To clarify the comments on the Navy's recent PSR choice: Unfortunately, we were not able submitt samples for testing on this. Not taking anything away from anyone; just the facts...