Here's my rant .

[Alphatreedog]

So if someone is running around killing twenty something college girls they get labeled serial killer . The police put together a task force , track down said serial killer and put said killer away .
If one sells heroin given the staggering number of OD deaths as well as opoids I believe it a likely conclusion that said dealer has killed several people . Had a conversation with a Law Enforcement buddy last night who told me that it is common to slip a bag of pure fentanyl off to a customer once in a while . The reasoning behind this is that it will cause an OD death leading junkies to believe the shit being sold is pure and potent .
If I sell something to the public for consumption that is illegal and I know that a percentage of my customers will die isn't that premeditated murder . If someone dies during the commision of a crime doesnt1 the perp get charged with murder .
If a foreign country's troops make a cross border incursion , siezing a border checkpoint and US personnel for the purpose of forcefully pushing a drug shipment across our border .
So my point . Where is the Law Enforcement response to this epidemic od serial killers . Where is the military response to the border war with Mexico . I think it a likely conclusion that if this isn't being aggressively dealt with that there are leadership in this Country getting rich to the tune of billions .
So this shit directly affects me , my family , my kids and my fuckin wallet . It's half the reason our cities are turning into fuckin barrios . Even more frustrating is that these pieces of shit are free to kill thousands yet if I stood up and offed one of these pieces of shit WOOOOW. I just violated the serial killers rights .
My sister in law just died from a heroin OD . Lost my brother from health issues realted to heroin abuse . Lost a cousin to heroin OD . They made choices . They are responsible for their actions . Yet some piece of shit facilitated their deaths and the deaths of countless more . Want to stop this shit . Kill the fuckin dealers . I gauruntee that with a price on ones head the job will lose it's attraction . I also advocate putting troops on the southern border and telling Mexico that the next time a Mexican military unit makes a border crossing the capital of Mexico will cease to exist . Further , burn and poisin the poppy fields of Afghanistan .
These countries are killing our people for profit . I think it's high time that some motherfuckers perish . The herd is ill time to cull it .
Don't mistake rant for a belief that American Law Enforcement is not doing it's job .
I believe there hands are tied . I also believe that alot of the dealers get to plea down the charge . The fuckin DAs do it out of some fucked up habit . The complacency in the courts is fuckin horrifying . I saw some POS with four burglary related priors get probation for a mugging . Are you fuckin kidding me .
Mother in law issued an edict . No one outside of this family is to know . She doesn't want the drug crowd showing up and having bloodshed . She's concerned that her grandson or exhusband might seek out some justice . Either way God bless em .
Rant over

 

[JSTARSZ]

Watch the Netflix show Drugs INC and you will see/hear the fentanyl's discussion from the dealers point of view. That show is fascinating only in the aspect that I am not usually ever that close to that lifestyle and it's interesting to hear from all three sides; police, drug dealers, and the junkies. Quite a cat and mouse game.

 

[ArmyJerry]

The war on drugs has cost us more freedom than any other manufactured event in our history. Sad for your sister, but the fact is people intentionally put these drugs into their system and are responsible for themselves. Its a slow path suicide, addiction is an individual thing, Alcoholism has caused far more death than drugs and we have not been able to get a handle on it in 10,000 years. Its a sad situation but the war on drugs is lost and is the cause of more constitutional infringment than anything else in the last 70 years, its the reason our police forces have been militarized and kill citizens at an alarming rate while dressed up as fat power ranger wannabee seals, killing people on hotel hallways with personal MP5s.

Sorry for your sister, relatives, and friends and as someone who has lost friends and cousins to heroin in the last wave in the 70's 80's I though the same but I am not willing to give up anymore freedoms at all so this is going to have o be handled at an individual level..

 

[diverdon]

The police have political masters who use them to keep prices where profits are maxed. Why do most judges seem to have become quite rich?

 

[Maggot]

So if someone is running around killing twenty something college girls they get labeled serial killer . The police put together a task force , track down said serial killer and put said killer away .
If one sells heroin given the staggering number of OD deaths as well as opoids I believe it a likely conclusion that said dealer has killed several people . Had a conversation with a Law Enforcement buddy last night who told me that it is common to slip a bag of pure fentanyl off to a customer once in a while . The reasoning behind this is that it will cause an OD death leading junkies to believe the shit being sold is pure and potent .
If I sell something to the public for consumption that is illegal and I know that a percentage of my customers will die isn't that premeditated murder . If someone dies during the commision of a crime doesnt1 the perp get charged with murder .
If a foreign country's troops make a cross border incursion , siezing a border checkpoint and US personnel for the purpose of forcefully pushing a drug shipment across our border .
So my point . Where is the Law Enforcement response to this epidemic od serial killers . Where is the military response to the border war with Mexico . I think it a likely conclusion that if this isn't being aggressively dealt with that there are leadership in this Country getting rich to the tune of billions .
So this shit directly affects me , my family , my kids and my fuckin wallet . It's half the reason our cities are turning into fuckin barrios . Even more frustrating is that these pieces of shit are free to kill thousands yet if I stood up and offed one of these pieces of shit WOOOOW. I just violated the serial killers rights .
My sister in law just died from a heroin OD . Lost my brother from health issues realted to heroin abuse . Lost a cousin to heroin OD . They made choices . They are responsible for their actions . Yet some piece of shit facilitated their deaths and the deaths of countless more . Want to stop this shit . Kill the fuckin dealers . I gauruntee that with a price on ones head the job will lose it's attraction . I also advocate putting troops on the southern border and telling Mexico that the next time a Mexican military unit makes a border crossing the capital of Mexico will cease to exist . Further , burn and poisin the poppy fields of Afghanistan .
These countries are killing our people for profit . I think it's high time that some motherfuckers perish . The herd is ill time to cull it .
Don't mistake rant for a belief that American Law Enforcement is not doing it's job .
I believe there hands are tied . I also believe that alot of the dealers get to plea down the charge . The fuckin DAs do it out of some fucked up habit . The complacency in the courts is fuckin horrifying . I saw some POS with four burglary related priors get probation for a mugging . Are you fuckin kidding me .
Mother in law issued an edict . No one outside of this family is to know . She doesn't want the drug crowd showing up and having bloodshed . She's concerned that her grandson or exhusband might seek out some justice . Either way God bless em .
Rant over

Brother, I feel you pain. I llost my best friend to a heroin overdose years ago. That said, your reasoning is faulty. How so?

-People have been using various substances for 10000 years to control pain. Laws will not stop them. The drug war has failed, prohibition does not work. Its a personal decision. If it werent heroin or one of the synthetic poisons they now substitute, it would be alcohol or something else..

-It may seem trite, but drugs dont kill people anymore than guns kill people. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. PERIOD.

-Opiates have a legitimate use in our pharocopia. They are the best pain control available hands down. I recently had an abcessed tooth and the doc gave me som oxycodone or one of the synthetic crappers they no hand out. didnt help much so I took some of the dialudid (a true opiate derivitive) my physician gives me for neck pain and presto, pain stops.

-To even sugeest evaporating Mexico DF because some local military commander wants to line his pockets is absurd. Those orders arent coming from President Nieto, he has waged a solid war against the Cartels.

Most of the current deaths are not from true opiates but their synthetic cousins. We shold legalize all of them, make them available to those who really need them, and provide help to those who abuse them. In the long run it would be far cheaper than incarcerating millions of persons.

May the pain of your loss subside and your family heal. God bless.

 

[101stinfantry]

My Brother in Laws step daughter was killed by fentanyl, she thought she was taking Xanax. According to the detective on the case a lot of times fentanyl is manufactured to look like/mimic the appearance of other drugs, to what end I don't know.

 

[diverdon]

The police have political masters who use them to keep prices where profits are maxed. Why do most judges seem to have become quite rich?

I guess that sounds a little fatalistic. I do not accept this, I am only saying what I see, and I do not see it alone. I think the time is near when the American people will get medieval on those profiteering on the destruction of our families. Fifty years ago ordinary police keept hard drugs off most streets in America and out of most of our towns. No reason that can not be done again, but don't expect the battle to be completely bloodless.

 

[Alphatreedog]

I guess that sounds a little fatalistic. I do not accept this, I am only saying what I see, and I do not see it alone. I think the time is near when the American people will get medieval on those profiteering on the destruction of our families. Fifty years ago ordinary police keept hard drugs off most streets in America and out of most of our towns. No reason that can not be done again, but don't expect the battle to be completely bloodless.

Hell thirty years ago you did not see this proliferation of hard drugs . The mutherfuckers selling this shit are straight up murders . I don't believe we need more social programs and safe use spaces and more narcan and yada yada yada .
All that the liberal Leftist programs do is provide money that the politicians will get kicked back to them and it gives the problem a broader foot print as opposed to meaningful solutions .

 

[The King]

I firmly believe in looking to other societies for guidance on social issues. Their failures often light the way for those that don’t want to repeat them.

1. No enforcement mechanism will make a difference. Countries with “dead right now” policies for drug dealers don’t see as much benefit as they could.
2. MONEY washes away the good intentions of most people in the enforcement business. Either money from our incarceration complex or money from the cartels themselves.
3. I have dead family members too from drugs. Ones I cared deeply about. I know for a fact it was mostly their fault, and that the drugs themselves were just ice on the road that multiplied their stupid choices.

It’s the decay of our society that makes drugs so attractive, not the attractiveness of drugs causing the decay of our society.

I blame the media’s forced reperception of religion on a lot of it. I’m not much of a Christian all, but I do understand the role it played in our society.

Legalize it and put the money towards research and clinics. Be done. This is a failing model we are under today.

 

[Alphatreedog]

Yeah another layer of decay that people are profitting from . Our society is getting horrendously fucked up . Schooldistricts are bringing back paddling ad that's ok but if I whoop the boy's ass in Pa children and youth can say indicated . Idicated means guilty with no due process . No way to appeal . A record and the loss of my firearms and rights . But the school can whack the kid with a paddle no problem .

 

[ArmyJerry]

Yes you did, drugs (heroine) was worse than today actually, I seen my second dead body in penn station, needle still in arm, coming back home from a concert at nassau coliseum.

Hell thirty years ago you did not see this proliferation of hard drugs . The mutherfuckers selling this shit are straight up murders . I don't believe we need more social programs and safe use spaces and more narcan and yada yada yada .
All that the liberal Leftist programs do is provide money that the politicians will get kicked back to them and it gives the problem a broader foot print as opposed to meaningful solutions .

 

[Maggot]

Yes you did, drugs (heroine) was worse than today actually, I seen my second dead body in penn station, needle still in arm, coming back home from a concert at nassau coliseum.

The difference is that it was largey restricted to inner cities. Now its spread to the general popultion through the prescriptions of the fake opiates that dont work very well.

 

[diverdon]

The drug war has failed because corruption festers in political, judicial, and some law enforcement circles. This could happen because the American People have had their attention focused else-wear. But at some threshold where a certain number of our families are destroyed we will awaken. To paraphrase the Japanese Admiral, "when you wake the slumbering giant he is going to stomp your ass." I see the giant starting to stretch.

 

[ArmyJerry]

the war on drugs was just a lever by government to control the whole population and the newest excuse for the police state to wage its war on the Constitution without actual authority under it. Most of the federal agencies that have grown exponentially because of the WOD are now caving in upon themselves, hopefully the do a Kingsmen episodic offing of each other. and leave the rest of us alone , we can only hope the whole city of DC implodes like this.

 

[W54/XM-388]

We could end all the drug wars and drug problems if we could get people to just not want drugs.
The problem is that as long as people want drugs and are willing to pay for them, the money will create the incentive to supply and the resulting money will provide the incentive for corruption one way or another of law and order.
Law enforcement has already been turned into a paramilitary force against the local citizenry because of this "War" but as bad as it is, there was even more heinous abuses of government power against whole communities at the start of this "holy war on drugs". Has it gotten any better?

People all down through history have wanted something to take their minds off their rotten boring lives, and it's a matter of how it is integrated, controlled, used and distributed that determines the level of problems.
People have always overdone things and wound up ruining their lives.

Drugs kill people and mess people up, but you know, more people are slowly killing themselves and ruining their health permanently due to the garbage food loaded with corn syrup and empty carbs, sugars and garbage than drugs could ever hope to cause and the cost to our country in healthcare and lost productivity and other costs is staggering... I don't see an open war on high fructose corn syrup or a war on processed carbs (instead the sugar companies paid for a soft demonization on fats in foods which you should have and not have the sweet and carb, got the government to get in on it with fake studies & proceeded to ruin 2 generations of our country). Are we fighting back...... nope... we are instead making it socially wrong to "fat shame" people (If someone is obese, they NEED to loose weight for their own good to avoid horrible health problems down the road).

We tried this really hard back in the prohibition days and it failed and lots of the laws we hate today (such as the original gun control act that still messes with us) came about because of reactions to the crime and perceived need for more "safety" that came about because of it.
You notice we don't have well funded, well armed cartels for smuggling alcohol into the country? Whiskey dealers aren't shooting each other on the streets,


Just like today this "War on drugs" is being used to strip away all our civil rights, turn law enforcement into militant armed camps against the citizens, and justify ever more money for expansion hungry departments at all levels. Extra bonus "Seized" property/money for "Extra stuff" has fully corrupted the government at all levels in this whole phony "Drug War" (If you want to argue the fact, ask why the government at all levels takes more money in from seizures than burglars steal per year? Why doesn't the government have to go to court first and get a criminal conviction and then apply for fines or forfeiture? Why are the evil guys running the show in OK issuing special machines to drain all the money from people's debit cards and prepaid credit cards when someone is stopped on the road?)

Not to mention openly allowing 2 systems of laws to come into play. Do you think for one minute if your state made it legal to make machine guns with no paperwork or registration the politicians would be all fine with it on the federal level? But apparently some states can make Drugs which are illegal under federal law "legal" and the feds say "We'll look the other way unless we want to go in and have an excuse for grabbing anything we want if it looks too profitable to ignore".

The ship of morals & religion telling people what to do & how to be decent has long since sailed and nobody want's to have to have any kind of "rules" on what they feel is right personally anymore, so the chances of people not wanting to do things that feel good in the short term, but hurt themselves & others in the long term is pretty slim.

The best way forward in my opinion is to simply stop lying, admit the whole phony "war on drugs" was a giant lie, and a giant failure at the cost of so much death, pain and suffering to people in the country that only enriched the drug cartels & those that made a business out of "the war on drugs". All the drugs everybody wants are already easily made in safe controlled doses and delivery systems, for dirt cheap prices by giant pharmaceutical companies who are nice and cozy with the politicians.

First, build the border wall with Mexico to be full, complete & effective to shut down any easy access for illegal everything.
Then have the drug companies start producing all the good stuff (with legal immunity unless the product was actually not what it was listed to be), then sell it widely, openly & cheaply from government controlled widespread distribution networks. That will quickly shut down all the illegal market and a lot of the crime and ODs that come with it. (Because nobody is going to want to pay for way overpriced sketchy drugs if the same stuff can be bought for peanuts legally in guaranteed quality). Once the money stops flowing you can easily wipe out the drug cartels, as they won't have money to pay their foot soldiers and pay off the corrupt governments that protect them.

Then you can start using all the same marketing tools that corporations use, to steer people slowly to customized designer drugs that are engineered to give people the feelings they want without as many side effects.
There will still be problems & deaths and side effects, but on the whole society would be much better.
(In case you think that more harshness would be the answer, even in countries where there is the death penalty for drugs, there are still plenty of drugs and drug dealers).

If you then want people to not use drugs at all, it's going to be a matter of realistic education (not this junk about if you take one smoke you'll turn into a raging zombie etc.) and religion and morals which are sadly lacking in public & private life, get rid of this obsession on social media stuff which only makes problems worse and get people to actually get back to having families, friends and communities (not going to happen however).

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Right is what's left, after everything else is wrong.

That being said, the 'system' as it is, and as it has been, ISN'T WORKING. High time (pun intended) to do something different.

Just throwing it out there, but very little narcotics (cocaine, heroin) come from Canada. Pull back the Fleet's and have our two navies actually patrol our own shores. Coast Guard's too, obviously. Shipyards to have MUCH more container inspections. Neither of these two things are infringing on ANYONE'S Rights, no?

Leave 'the world' to deal with their messes, more. Protect the home, protect the shores. Keep the vigilance up, and with the many radar/tracking and intercept measures, it'd step up our continent to be that much more 'impregnable'.

On the street level, I think it's simple too. Community Service for any and all convicted of selling illegal drugs. But when I say "Community Service" I mean "tent cities" of the likes of Sherrif Arapio (?) I mean "chain-gangs" of the likes of the '20s and '30 and I mean ACTUALLY SERVICING THE COMMUNITY by doing road construction, and any/all HIGH LABOR JOBS that are normally done by one machine, owned by a construction corporation, and who makes contracts worth of millions, to be done FOR THE COMMUNITY for FREE.

As in NO CHARGE, and the job gets done properly. Takes longer, sure. But it's FOR THE PEOPLE.

 

[diverdon]

We could end all the drug wars and drug problems if we could get people to just not want drugs.
The problem is that as long as people want drugs and are willing to pay for them, the money will create the incentive to supply and the resulting money will provide the incentive for corruption one way or another of law and order.
Law enforcement has already been turned into a paramilitary force against the local citizenry because of this "War" but as bad as it is, there was even more heinous abuses of government power against whole communities at the start of this "holy war on drugs". Has it gotten any better?

People all down through history have wanted something to take their minds off their rotten boring lives, and it's a matter of how it is integrated, controlled, used and distributed that determines the level of problems.
People have always overdone things and wound up ruining their lives.

Drugs kill people and mess people up, but you know, more people are slowly killing themselves and ruining their health permanently due to the garbage food loaded with corn syrup and empty carbs, sugars and garbage than drugs could ever hope to cause and the cost to our country in healthcare and lost productivity and other costs is staggering... I don't see an open war on high fructose corn syrup or a war on processed carbs (instead the sugar companies paid for a soft demonization on fats in foods which you should have and not have the sweet and carb, got the government to get in on it with fake studies & proceeded to ruin 2 generations of our country). Are we fighting back...... nope... we are instead making it socially wrong to "fat shame" people (If someone is obese, they NEED to loose weight for their own good to avoid horrible health problems down the road).

We tried this really hard back in the prohibition days and it failed and lots of the laws we hate today (such as the original gun control act that still messes with us) came about because of reactions to the crime and perceived need for more "safety" that came about because of it.
You notice we don't have well funded, well armed cartels for smuggling alcohol into the country? Whiskey dealers aren't shooting each other on the streets,


Just like today this "War on drugs" is being used to strip away all our civil rights, turn law enforcement into militant armed camps against the citizens, and justify ever more money for expansion hungry departments at all levels. Extra bonus "Seized" property/money for "Extra stuff" has fully corrupted the government at all levels in this whole phony "Drug War" (If you want to argue the fact, ask why the government at all levels takes more money in from seizures than burglars steal per year? Why doesn't the government have to go to court first and get a criminal conviction and then apply for fines or forfeiture? Why are the evil guys running the show in OK issuing special machines to drain all the money from people's debit cards and prepaid credit cards when someone is stopped on the road?)

Not to mention openly allowing 2 systems of laws to come into play. Do you think for one minute if your state made it legal to make machine guns with no paperwork or registration the politicians would be all fine with it on the federal level? But apparently some states can make Drugs which are illegal under federal law "legal" and the feds say "We'll look the other way unless we want to go in and have an excuse for grabbing anything we want if it looks too profitable to ignore".

The ship of morals & religion telling people what to do & how to be decent has long since sailed and nobody want's to have to have any kind of "rules" on what they feel is right personally anymore, so the chances of people not wanting to do things that feel good in the short term, but hurt themselves & others in the long term is pretty slim.

The best way forward in my opinion is to simply stop lying, admit the whole phony "war on drugs" was a giant lie, and a giant failure at the cost of so much death, pain and suffering to people in the country that only enriched the drug cartels & those that made a business out of "the war on drugs". All the drugs everybody wants are already easily made in safe controlled doses and delivery systems, for dirt cheap prices by giant pharmaceutical companies who are nice and cozy with the politicians.

First, build the border wall with Mexico to be full, complete & effective to shut down any easy access for illegal everything.
Then have the drug companies start producing all the good stuff (with legal immunity unless the product was actually not what it was listed to be), then sell it widely, openly & cheaply from government controlled widespread distribution networks. That will quickly shut down all the illegal market and a lot of the crime and ODs that come with it. (Because nobody is going to want to pay for way overpriced sketchy drugs if the same stuff can be bought for peanuts legally in guaranteed quality). Once the money stops flowing you can easily wipe out the drug cartels, as they won't have money to pay their foot soldiers and pay off the corrupt governments that protect them.

Then you can start using all the same marketing tools that corporations use, to steer people slowly to customized designer drugs that are engineered to give people the feelings they want without as many side effects.
There will still be problems & deaths and side effects, but on the whole society would be much better.
(In case you think that more harshness would be the answer, even in countries where there is the death penalty for drugs, there are still plenty of drugs and drug dealers).

If you then want people to not use drugs at all, it's going to be a matter of realistic education (not this junk about if you take one smoke you'll turn into a raging zombie etc.) and religion and morals which are sadly lacking in public & private life, get rid of this obsession on social media stuff which only makes problems worse and get people to actually get back to having families, friends and communities (not going to happen however).

Sir you have a well thought out and coherent philosophy. But I can never agree that because demand creates a supply chain that we should tolerate Judaical, political corruption, or police corruption. That supply chain cannot exist without those. Stomp those out and most drug use will disappear. Look what Mao did in China, inside of a year no more drug addicts. I'm not suggesting that we need to do that I am only pointing out that if we are determined we can do it.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Sir you have a well thought out and coherent philosophy. But I can never agree that because demand creates a supply chain that we should tolerate Judaical, political corruption, or police corruption. That supply chain cannot exist without those. Stomp those out and most drug use will disappear. Look what Mao did in China, inside of a year no more drug addicts. I'm not suggesting that we need to do that I am only pointing out that if we are determined we can do it.

You have a very valid point and I totally agree that we cannot tolerate Judicial, political and police corruption, the problem is that it is already well entrenched and very hard to eliminate. It's like fighting a wild fire, small ones you can suppress, huge ones can only be ended by eliminating their access to fuel. Our systems on so many levels are so fully corrupted by money I'm not sure it can be fixed. (Illegal drug money is only just the start when it comes down to it). Not to mention open government actions like the Obama administration purposely allowing the Iranian backed terror groups to go about their drug shipments in this country unhindered in any major way, because they wanted their "nuclear agreement deal" to go down smoothly. Or the utter corruption allowed in Afghanistan where our "allies" had ties to the biggest drug smugglers and drug production was less under the Taliban than under the American backed "democratic" government.

In this country the "War on drugs" is a never ending source of extra slush funds from either granted or seized assets and it would be naive to think it's going to go away without a large painful overhaul. For example there is police on public records as saying basically "if we don't get to do asset seizures and keep the money, we don't really want to expend the effort to combat drug crime". Not to mention the added "powers" and you know how more power corrupts even faster.

On the civilian side, the drug money is intoxicating and irresistible for many not just in the "blighted" or "Minority" group, but even the more well to do people that want / need that extra quick easy money. In the more run down big city centers, drug money is a way of life and the only income many people have learned to go after. In the suburbs, well to do decent looking people are taken in by getting extra money from their neighbors, and other community members for drugs to make a quick and easy profit to pay for things they want.

In "supplier" countries, most notably Mexico these days, the government, police and army are all fully corrupted almost beyond repair and short of full regime change at every level, it cannot be fixed without first cutting off the flow of money buying drugs from this country, short of an actual invasion and full on war with Mexico at every level.

Basically my suggestion is that the money (caused by demand for the product) is fuel, like a whole country wide area covered in dry tinder and you can keep fighting new fires over and over but every little spark or lightning strike is going to cause it to flare up again, so your choices are either small controlled burns to eliminate the fuel (such as legal drug sales), or things outside human control such as waiting for enough rain & change in seasons/winds/temperatures (Like hoping people get back to God and individual morals / responsibilities)

The problem with saying "Mao fixed the problem" is that Yes Mao did get rid of the open public drug problem (there was always and still is a hidden drug problem in china, still mostly dealt with by the same methods actually, they shoot drug dealers dead all the time, in public).
Then again most every brutal dictatorship with utter disregard for human life did make some things "better" & got rid of the public drug problem.
When it comes to illegal drugs, Hitler cleaned up Germany good, Stalin cleaned up the USSR good, Mao cleaned up China good, all were also responsible for some of the worst atrocities in recent human memory.

Mao got rid of the public drug problem, yes, great.
But to get that 1 great good thing you also got:
He was responsible for the biggest population murder in modern history, far eclipsing Hitler & Stalin combined.
He destroyed all freedom, civil & human rights in his country
He destroyed anyone with any religious beliefs apart from worship of the communist party
He destroyed the rule of law and replaced it with the whims of tyranny
He made his countrymen slaves to the whims and dictacts of the elite few
He took everything from everybody and said it all belonged to the state and those in charge
Even the party members lived in fear of the next purge
Show trials, kangaroo courts and summary executions of any dissidents on imagined charges were the norm.
The brutality and top down control, made China loose decades in progress till less brutal people took over.

(One of my caretakers while growing up was the daughter of a young at first idealistic woman in Mao's Red Guard, she had the knack for forcing a "confession" out of you well honed.)

It goes back to those who would trade freedom for the illusion of safety get neither. Yes just about any brutal dictator with enough men with guns, unchecked power & utter disregard for humanity will be able to fix the public drug problem. That is if you want to give up all your freedom, all your rights, all your liberty and live a slave's life in fear of the breaking in your door at night and a bullet for you and your family in the alley, just so that you won't have to worry about open drug use in your neighborhood. Because that is exactly what life was like under Hitler, Stalin & Mao.

I don't think there is a easy and perfectly good solution, any solution will be a matter of what we are willing to give up or put up with for the result and it won't be fun or pain free for anyone no matter what the side.

I (or for that matter you or anyone else) could fix the drug problem easily with a brutal Theocratic, Dictatorial regime using unbridled violence, oppression and subjugation. The question is, would you trade all your freedoms and liberties, control of your life & the safety of fair rule of law so that people can't be seen to do drugs? Then if you choose yes, how long after the first problem of drugs was eliminated, would it be before that same power was used on everything else in turn, including those who advocated a little less brutality?

Here is a good example that affects us all, every day of our lives & probably forever (till the fall of civilization). Once upon a time this country had no income taxes, the money you made was yours, no taking stuff out of your pay check, no IRS, no filing tax returns. Then some rabble rousers stirred up the vox populi about the supposed ills of a small group of super wealthy industrial elite (much like the technocrats of today). They promised the public that if they only gave the government unlimited and unchecked power to tax anything and everything with no restraints, the government would only ever use it to make sure the "Rich Elite" paid their fair share of taxes and contributed a small percentage of their income to the public coffers. So everyone got on the bandwagon and passed a new constitutional amendment and yes, the first year the government said (inflation adjusted) if you are making over 1 million a year, you have to pay a couple percent of it to the government for the public good. Shortly thereafter everyone everywhere was getting taxed in huge amounts and despite "tax reform" to this day the bulk of income taxes are paid by middle & upper middle class workers and the tax system affects just about everyone's lives.

Or the current craze about the Opioid crisis causing people in actual serious (sometimes terminal) pain being unable to get pain medication they need, or people worried about being arrested for trying to go to the store and buy enough cold / flu meds for their family for a week etc.

This is why in the quest to eliminate as much of the scourge of drug abuse as possible, we have to think from the start when considering any plan, what the worst case turn out would be and how far unintended consequences may go, and what people without scruples will do with any power you give them that does not have hard and enforced constraints.

So the question is, what path do you want to follow to get rid of the open drug problem and what are you willing to give up / put up with and what is the furthest end result of bad that could possibly come from the solution?

In my suggestion, if it all goes wrong, the worst case scenario is life continues as is and people keep choosing to destroy their lives, but we get rid of most of the violence, crime, cartels, gangs, accidental deaths, underground money trade, and open visible drug consequences, but we get to keep our liberty, our freedom & our rights.

I'd also be happy to lead a God fearing Theocratic militaristic dictatorship to cure the world's ills, but my guess is a lot of people wouldn't like how it turns out (and I may not in the end either).

One thing is pretty clear is that our current plan, including more militarization of the police, weakening or near eliminating civil right protections, and harsher penalties for users and people low on the supply food chain, stuffing prisons full of people with harsh sentences, has been an abject failure and the drug problem is worse than ever before. We went the heavy military route in Columbia and that caused Mexico to become the new biggest supplier country.

It's time for a fresh approach that is well reasoned out ahead of time.

 

[Rthur]

Check and see how many Large well known Banks have been fined for laundering money for the cartels ect.
This will make it clear about the realities concerning the drug trade.

R

 

[The King]

I think this is the undercurrent we probably haven’t discussed.

I could build a system that would tell you every single drug user in the USA. I work in that field. Modern tech can do that. And then you could just go kill them all, China style.

Anyone want to live in that country?

Sir you have a well thought out and coherent philosophy. But I can never agree that because demand creates a supply chain that we should tolerate Judaical, political corruption, or police corruption. That supply chain cannot exist without those. Stomp those out and most drug use will disappear. Look what Mao did in China, inside of a year no more drug addicts. I'm not suggesting that we need to do that I am only pointing out that if we are determined we can do it.

 

[ArmyJerry]

but why, nobody is forcing anyone to take drugs, just liek nobody forces anyone to dink beer. More damage is done by do gooders in this dam country.

 

[The King]

Actually, a combination of mental health issues, drug addicted friends bringing massive peer pressure, and the chemical addictiveness of most drugs make the situation as close to “somebody is forcing them to do drugs” as possible...

I hate drugs. And everything and everyone that goes with it too. I just hate the government that has so much control over every citizen it can effectively stop the drug situation WAY more.

 

[ArmyJerry]

i dont see this as a government responsibility

 

[Maggot]

Actually, a combination of mental health issues, drug addicted friends bringing massive peer pressure, and the chemical addictiveness of most drugs make the situation as close to “somebody is forcing them to do drugs” as possible...

I hate drugs. And everything and everyone that goes with it too. I just hate the government that has so much control over every citizen it can effectively stop the drug situation WAY more.

Hating drugs is as follish as the liberals hating guns. As we all kow, guns dont kill people, people kill people. The exact same is true of drugs, cars, airplanes, a diet of big mac and coke, etc. They area all inantimate objects until a human hand picks it up and uses it, either for good or evil. Ever taken an aspirin for a head ache? Youre a druggie, son.

 

[The King]

When our country was founded, part of the reason the Founders didn’t sit down for 51 years writing a 900,000 pate constitution was because dueling was legal.

I have always felt that was the beginning of the end of our country - we outlawed duels.

 

[Holliday]

I just skimmed through this thread so if I am being redundant, mea culpa. I am led to believe that there is a significant amount of drug users who turn to street drugs after becoming addicted to opiate pain medications. I’m told that they can’t keep getting prescriptions, so to either deal with ongoing pain or addiction, they turn to street alternatives.

As someone who has dealt with extreme back pain for 30 years now (climbing accident where a person’s live was literally in my hands. I did not let go.). Luckily for me, I have a high pain threshold and a reasonable fear of opiate addiction. In 2009 I had to take an ambulance ride due to going into shock from the pain. I was there 5 days.

Recently I have had a couple flare ups that required opiates. I recently heard that opiates not only are addictive but that they lower your pain threshold. I have noticed this significantly recently. Pain that I would normally tune out, needs to be dealt with one way or another.

I’m lucky. I seem to have the ability to not get addicted to opiates.....at least for now. I don’t like the ‘loopy feeling” and I recently read that this means I’m a lot less susceptible to becoming addicted because of this. I will tell you that when I am in the thick of a flare up, using a cane to barely walk, a pill that has me cleaning the house, no cane in a few hours, is a gift from the gods.

Having said all that I remain in awe, that with all our technology medicine cannot replace this scourge, with something less dangerous and less destructive.......it is time.

 

[ArmyJerry]

How many lives were ruined by stupid drug laws, people getting popped for a nickel bag, get convicted and never able to get a good job. then there are those that go to jail for a few ounces of pot, kids getting kicked out of school for tylenol and all kinds of other absurd incidents that have ruined many and enriched the armed state agencies who benefit from this militarization. I hope all states legalize pot at least. NOt for taxes or these other crazy arguments that the potheads use, but just because its none of the government's business what people want to smoke.

And, when I retire I want to smoke a joint.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

How many lives were ruined by stupid drug laws, people getting popped for a nickel bag, get convicted and never able to get a good job. then there are those that go to jail for a few ounces of pot, kids getting kicked out of school for tylenol and all kinds of other absurd incidents that have ruined many and enriched the armed state agencies who benefit from this militarization. I hope all states legalize pot at least. NOt for taxes or these other crazy arguments that the potheads use, but just because its none of the government's business what people want to smoke.

And, when I retire I want to smoke a joint.

That might be the only thing you have ever said that made sense.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Fuck you. you goddamn crackhead.

 

[The King]

Eh. A gun doesn’t make you kill yourself. It’s just a tool. And a gun doesn’t make you kill others.

The same isn’t true of many of the drugs doctors hand out like candy.

Drugs are an actual interactive influence on who you are.

That said, I would approve of legalizing drugs completely so long as people who are harmed by the users of drugs got to enact eye for an eye retribution.

Kill my kid because you were smoking weed and driving? Happens. I’ll feel better after the car crusher ejects the 1981 Cadillac you were handcuffed into...

Make this a mandatory only channel that plays in bars and dispensaries. Full audio. Can’t turn it off or change the channel. Same thing with shops that sell cigarettes - can’t turn off the lung cancer surgery channel, and the public isn’t allowed to pay for anesthesia...

Hating drugs is as follish as the liberals hating guns. As we all kow, guns dont kill people, people kill people. The exact same is true of drugs, cars, airplanes, a diet of big mac and coke, etc. They area all inantimate objects until a human hand picks it up and uses it, either for good or evil. Ever taken an aspirin for a head ache? Youre a druggie, son.

 

[Maggot]

I just skimmed through this thread so if I am being redundant, mea culpa. I am led to believe that there is a significant amount of drug users who turn to street drugs after becoming addicted to opiate pain medications. I’m told that they can’t keep getting prescriptions, so to either deal with ongoing pain or addiction, they turn to street alternatives.

As someone who has dealt with extreme back pain for 30 years now (climbing accident where a person’s live was literally in my hands. I did not let go.). Luckily for me, I have a high pain threshold and a reasonable fear of opiate addiction. In 2009 I had to take an ambulance ride due to going into shock from the pain. I was there 5 days.

Recently I have had a couple flare ups that required opiates. I recently heard that opiates not only are addictive but that they lower your pain threshold. I have noticed this significantly recently. Pain that I would normally tune out, needs to be dealt with one way or another.

I’m lucky. I seem to have the ability to not get addicted to opiates.....at least for now. I don’t like the ‘loopy feeling” and I recently read that this means I’m a lot less susceptible to becoming addicted because of this. I will tell you that when I am in the thick of a flare up, using a cane to barely walk, a pill that has me cleaning the house, no cane in a few hours, is a gift from the gods.

Having said all that I remain in awe, that with all our technology medicine cannot replace this scourge, with something less dangerous and less destructive.......it is time.

Great post, brother, thanks. I suffer that pain in my back and neck. I try to avoid the pills but every once in a while when yuore hurting so bad, fuck it, just make it stop.

Eh. A gun doesn’t make you kill yourself. It’s just a tool. And a gun doesn’t make you kill others.

The same isn’t true of many of the drugs doctors hand out like candy.

Drugs are an actual interactive influence on who you are.

That said, I would approve of legalizing drugs completely so long as people who are harmed by the users of drugs got to enact eye for an eye retribution.

Kill my kid because you were smoking weed and driving? Happens. I’ll feel better after the car crusher ejects the 1981 Cadillac you were handcuffed into...

Make this a mandatory only channel that plays in bars and dispensaries. Full audio. Can’t turn it off or change the channel. Same thing with shops that sell cigarettes - can’t turn off the lung cancer surgery channel, and the public isn’t allowed to pay for anesthesia...

While the physicians certainly bear some responsibility tell me the last time a pill got up out of the bottle, popped itself into your mouth, and washed itself down with a beer. Tell me.

 

[Holliday]

Great post, brother, thanks. I suffer that pain in my back and neck. I try to avoid the pills but every once in a while when yuore hurting so bad, fuck it, just make it stop.

Well for some reason I have been able to manage a lot of pain with Advil. I have taken an obscene amount of that drug in the past 30 years. Without that I would have probably become an opiote addict. Time will tell what the effects of long term usage of Ibuprofen will be.

 

[Holliday]

While the physicians certainly bear some responsibility tell me the last time a pill got up out of the bottle, popped itself into your mouth, and washed itself down with a beer. Tell me.

Well to be fair, some people just can’t handle these drugs. They are just so addictive. There but for the grace of god go I (or in my case Buddha?). Folks who are not addicted to these drugs just simply cannot relate to their power.

As for the Docs., the one I saw recently was super tight fisted with opiates. Too much in my case but how does she know? The problem is that they have few alternatives and pain is very subjective to observe. How do you know if someone is faking pain?? When you have these pills going on the black market for obscene amounts of CASH$$$ , it’s not just addicts trying to get their hands on them.

The only cure I see for this problem is to make them obsolete with technological and medical advance in pain mitigation and management. The blame game won’t get us there.

 

[fdkay]

The opiate epidemic is real.
We see just as many folks abusing prescription dope as those abusing illicit drugs.
All you have to do is complain the doctor that you have anxiety and you immediately get a prescription for xanax and 798 dollars a month from Uncle Sugar because you are disabled.
Take you kid to the doctor because he misbehaves, ritalin. Then the school gets additional money from Uncle Sugar because they have another "special needs" student.
Most of the school shooters are kids that have been fed psychotropic drugs since they were little, which has been proven to alter brain development.

And yes, many that have become addicted to over the counter opiates turn to heroin as it is frequently cheaper than their co-pay. When they can't get heroin, they start using meth.
You know how they pay for that shit? By breaking into your house/garage/vehicle and stealing shit.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Kay;

You might find this article to be of interest;

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/30/the-family-that-built-an-empire-of-pain

So far, the article appears to clearly identify the smoking gun (and the trigger men).
I just started reading the article. It's long and I have a ways to go. I am no fan of the New Yorker magazine, but the little bit that I have read so far, seems to indicate the article is well written. That could change, the further I get into it.

I've had both hips replaced and on each surgery, my doctor was more than happy to load me up with scrips for Oxy or Hydro (can't remember which). Good thing for me that I hate that shit. I just took plain old aspirin. And, pleasant surprise, the pain wasn't that bad to begin with. After my first hip, the doctor came into my room at the hospital the morning after my surgery. He looked at my chart, then looked at me kinda funny. He said; "so, how are you feeling?" I told him "good"..... He then asked about my pain, was I hurting, was I OK ?, etc. I finally asked him what he was getting at. He said that I had used about 10 to 20% of the "normal"/average dosages of Dilaudid that most other people did. I told him that I hated the shit, didn't really need it, aspirin was doing fine and O,BTW, I wasn't interested in getting hooked on anything. He said; "Hey, that's great, just don't suffer unnecessarily". It was odd, because I usually have a pretty low threshold of pain. But, in the course of having both hips done, I really didn't have unbearable amounts of pain.