Sidearms & Scatterguns High end 1911 10mm

[HenryTheAce]

Anybody own any high end 1911 10mm’s? I’m thinking about pulling the trigger on a custom Nighthawk Heinie 10mm long slide. Seems outrageously over priced at $4300 right from nighthawk themselves ordered how I want. My father just got a Dan Wesson Kodiak 10mm, sweet pistol! Can’t wait to shoot it and it came in at $2100. Anybody have any experience with either or both?

 

[Mike_Honcho]

Sample of one....

Semi custom 1911 smith, comparable to NH (but not NH). Lots of money, long wait, you know the drill. Put probably 5k rounds through it and then dumped it b/c (in my mind) it was not reliable. Every couple of 4 mags it would fail to eject, slam the slide forward and crush the brass longitudinally in the port. Couple trips back to the smith, different mags, read about timing and 10's, swapped all springs, etc, ejectors, extractors, nada - gone.

FYI - everyone in my UPSA / IDPA club that had been there and done that said that was not going to be an easy or cheap road if I wanted something reliable enough for carry and comp, well...they were right.

FYI2, after a lot of effort with a timer - 10s are a great thought but in practical terms the splits are slower, the bark and blast are way more and the whole effort is just harder. Wait till you track your FS through the arc of recoil compared to a same size and weight 1911 in .45 ACP, or better yet a 9mm, you'll see why the splits are slower.

Best of luck on that.

 

[Odysseus1911]

DWs are great. Fit and finish (and timing, one would think) should be better on the NH.

But if you're using the 1911 platform, why not go bigger? 45 Super packs a little more thump than 10mm and 460 Rowland packs a lot more thump. Save 10mm for the plastic guns

 

[HenryTheAce]

Good info fellas. Def a lot to think about. Didn’t know the 1911 10mm’s can be finicky

 

[ggmanning]

Mid range 1911 10mm Springfield TRP bought new with an factory installed RMR. It's been very reliable....well worth the money. Not as refined as my higher end 2011's and 1911's but goes bang every time and has a nice trigger straight out of the box. Couldn't justify more for a gun I only use hunting but turned out to be a good choice. Using real good ammunition like Underwood loaded to pressure and velocity that the round was originally designed for and it is a great hunting gun combination. I used 460 Rowland for a good while and I prefer the 10mm for my uses.

 

[Huskerhunter]

Might search for a used Colt Delta that has been worked on by a good smith. I love mine!

 

[Jigstick]

When you say high end I think of Cabot. Not just your normal nice semi custom Dan Wesson’s, NHs, etc

 

[Shootnwrench]

Not high end but the DW’s offer a lot of value for the dollar. Both of mine are in .45 though.

 

[HenryTheAce]

When you say high end I think of Cabot. Not just your normal nice semi custom Dan Wesson’s, NHs, etc

Lol shoulda known I hear what you’re saying.

 

[HenryTheAce]

Not high end but the DW’s offer a lot of value for the dollar. Both of mine are in .45 though.

Shot my dads DW Kodiak 10mm today. Very nice shooting pistol. No hiccups with Underwood full power and weak armscor loads.

Might search for a used Colt Delta that has been worked on by a good smith. I love mine!View attachment 7419932

Beautiful!

 

[rezrocket]

DW is nothing to scoff at great pistols. Have a couple, great steal, great fit and finish. I have 1 NH that is also great but I don't see the "life changing features for the money". For a pistol and this is my personal experience but DW is absolutely everything a NH is in accuracy and reliability after that it is looks. Some like a custom look nothing wrong with that but it doesn't function any better or worse in my lot.

 

[HenryTheAce]

DW is nothing to scoff at great pistols. Have a couple, great steal, great fit and finish. I have 1 NH that is also great but I don't see the "life changing features for the money". For a pistol and this is my personal experience but DW is absolutely everything a NH is in accuracy and reliability after that it is looks. Some like a custom look nothing wrong with that but it doesn't function any better or worse in my lot.

Yeah after shooting the DW Kodiak, I’d rather save myself a few G’s and bail on the NH. As much as I want it, I could get a DW and another firearm to add to the arsenal instead of just the NH.

 

[Choid]

There is a lot that goes into building a 10mm 1911 that really shoots. First, I wouldn't really consider a Cabot a "high end 1911." They are more jewelry built around the 1911 platform, though they are better now that Rob from Alchemy has turned them around. The Alchemy pistols are still a lot better than the Cabot ones.

That said, with the 10mm you are doing all that you can to delay the unlocking of the pistol, since the 10mm has a much higher chamber pressure and much more slide speed than the 45. Dan Wesson actually does a pretty good job with it, though I think Nighthawk does a much better job. Wilson does a much worse job with 10mm. A lot of this has to do with the build philosophy. Nighthawk's gunsmiths are just better at hard fitting the barrel and getting the firing pin stop just right, which are the two keys to a good 10mm 1911. They can be a pain in the ass to unlock by hand, whereas you won't see that with the other two.

If I were to order a 10mm 1911, I would do it from Nighthawk, and I would add any option possible to slow the slide. Bull nose, bull barrel etc. Even one of those wafer barrels they do on the Predators, though they are heinous to look at.

460 Rowland is more of a gimmick cartridge, but it is powerful.

ETA: I would avoid Delta Elites like the Rona. They didn't do any of the work necessary to make a good gun with that project.

 

[Choid]

If you looked hard enough you could most likely find a real Heinie for $3500.

I honestly have no idea if Heinie ever made a pistol in 10mm. And even if he did, I am not sure it would be a better gun than a Heinie Nighthawk. I have a couple of his guns, in 9x23, and they are great, and they are not a gun Nighthawk would make since they are on a ti frame and in a weird cartridge, but the fit and finish are not significantly better, and most Nighthawks are going to be made of better parts than the average Heinie, given the improvements in internals over the last many years. The magwell on a Heinie will be better and better fit, but I hate magwells. The rear sights will be better too, since Nighthawk uses Heinie rears in a Novak cut.

Just fwiw.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Personally I think Wilson’s are a little better made pistols than the Nighthawks. That’s what I’d buy if I were going for a high end single stack 10mm 1911.

With that said, you don’t get the same jump in quality going from a $2K 1911 to a $4K one like you would the same price ranges on a precision rifle. After owning several Wilson’s, a nighthawk, several STI’s (2011’s), a Les Baer, and several SA TRP’s plus a bunch of lower/mid range 1911’s and then shooting two of the new 10mm TRP’s last year that my buddy got I’d have a hard time buying anything but the TRP for a single stack 10mm. The fit and finish is phenomenal even for a semi custom, they shoot amazingly (we were hitting IPSC’s at 300 yards with ease), and they have enough options/models for me and are good looking well optioned guns out of the box.

It’s probably 98% of the build quality of a Wilson or nighthawk for 1/2 the price. Really the only thing you lose that you’ll actually notice is the flex on the poors. A $4K pistol is a pretty strong flex, but when the performance difference is essentially non existent and the build quality is that close it’s just not worth it to me. I’ll take the $2K pistol and blow the rest on something else that makes my PP hard and have multiple toys. If I was feeling frisky and wanted something more “special” than a TRP I’d probably go double stack and try to find a STI 2011 DVC or something in 10mm.

 

[Choid]

Wilson may be, on average, better than Nighthawk when talking 9mm and 45, but when it comes to 10mm that is reversed. It has to do with how they are set up to build pistols overall, and their basic build philosophies.

Springfield makes an average base gun for a custom, but if you think that it is 98% the build quality of a semi custom I don't know what to tell you. That isn't to say it won't work fine for the intended purpose of a handgun, but there is a lot of work that needs to go into a Springfield to make it a nice pistol.

 

[powdahound76]

I would say SA or DW.
No need in my mind to spend the $ on a work tool.

I still use ggmannings old .460 kit for 1911.
gonna take it hog hunting in Jan. Its more nastalgia for me, as the gun it goes wIth belonged to dear departed friend.
he would love it.

When I go to brown bear country with my kid fishing, I carry a G21 in 460.
@Choid - curious why you say gimicky?
Packs a helluva punch, serious penetration with lehigh bullets at 1500 fps. Also gives me 14 rds in a gun that weighs close to the same loaded as my buddies 5 shot 44 mag.
as well as a reload if I cant do it in 14 rds.

When I lived in AK, I didnt have $ for a powerful handgun and made do with a well oiled 870.
harder to do when helping a kid reel in big fish.

 

[Choid]

I think it is a better cartridge in a Glock than it is in a 1911. Glocks are oddly stronger. What I don't like about it is mainly that it requires a comp, and I think that comps make for really bad defense guns. Way too loud, way too much flash. Understanding that you are likely to run into bears at dusk and dawn makes that flash even harder.

I live in Grizzly country. I carry a Glock 20 or a Ruger 44 mag when I am worried about bears. I'm not sure, if I ever needed to, that I would get off more than a couple of shots. Who knows.

 

[powdahound76]

Truth about the flash and the bang.

I would most likely go G20 if I was doing it again.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I am not sure this 90's era Colt 10mm Delta Elite Gold Cup is worthy of the high dollar descriptor but it shoots well and wouldn't feel naked if in bear country.
My second security blanket choice close on the hip would be my 629-4 (pre-MIM) 3" S&W .44 mg Backpacker model.

 

[Burning sensation]

I have a pair of DW 10s and a G21 that I converted to 10mm. The DWs are hands down my favorite pistols. I don’t own a Nighthawk to compare them to, but I would have a hard time spending double the price of a DW on one, especially for as nice as DWs are and what I use them for. I’m sure it‘s worth’s it to somebody, though.

 

[HenryTheAce]

I would have a hard time spending double the price of a DW on one, especially for as nice as DWs are and what I use them for.

That’s what it boiled down to for me as well. After shooting my dads DW Kodiak, my intended uses for the weapon, I just don’t want to spend $4300+ on a NH. I ended up getting a DW Specialist in 10mm for well less then half of what the NH would’ve been. Beautiful pistols BTW!!!

 

[Asiparks]

if you have an itch for a high end gun, then go for it.
that said, I have Nighthawks ( Heinie and GRP ) and Dan Wessons, (Valor and Cbob), as well as a few other makes- You'll get greater bragging rights with the NH, probably not a significantly greater gun.
I have had 3 Wilsons - CQB, CQB Professional and ULC. I'd say the same applies.
Whether you want to argue whether NH or Wilson is better:- a) might depend on which smith built it and how he was feeling that day and b) who cares ? Either will shoot better than you can. As will a DW. And Kimber and Remington.

I would say, if you do go high end, buy used. Very few people will come remotely close to wearing out any part of their high end 1911. Most are treated like fragile Faberge eggs. Scour 1911addicts, migunslingers, allan yoast for bargains.....

top down- Guncrafter, SA Pro, Wilson, Heinie on an SA, custom DW Valor, NH Heinie, DW Valor.

 

[Choid]

Who are you guys bragging to?

 

[powdahound76]

I have a pair of DW 10s and a G21 that I converted to 10mm. The DWs are hands down my favorite pistols. I don’t own a Nighthawk to compare them to, but I would have a hard time spending double the price of a DW on one, especially for as nice as DWs are and what I use them for. I’m sure it‘s worth’s it to somebody, though.
View attachment 7421206

Just a 10mm barrel to convert that 21??
See it still has the 21 slide
Or is that as a 45?

Nice pic, BTW.

@Choid. Thats part of the fun of owning nice stuff.
Sharing it with friends. Even if one’s chest is a tad puffed out.
I dont have nice stuff, but if I did, I might like sharing it too.

 

[Choid]

I don't have friends

 

[Burning sensation]

Just a 10mm barrel to convert that 21??
See it still has the 21 slide
Or is that as a 45?

Nice pic, BTW.

@Choid. Thats part of the fun of owning nice stuff.
Sharing it with friends. Even if one’s chest is a tad puffed out.
I dont have nice stuff, but if I did, I might like sharing it too.

A barrel and a G20 magazine is all it takes. It is pictured in the 10mm configuration.
Thanks, I have what I consider nice guns and scopes, but I’m a blue collar guy and I drive a 2004 Toyota Tundra to make up for it. It’s been paid off for 12 years. I would post a picture of it, but you guys would laugh at me.

 

[Choid]

20 and 21 have different breach faces, and possibly different ejectors. You need a different slide, at least, to convert.

 

[powdahound76]

I would rather drive an old truck and have the stuff I want.
actually, my next daily driver is likely to be an old truck.

With a gun rack.
I have nice guns too. Just nothing super high end.
would like a nice spotter one day though

 

[Burning sensation]

20 and 21 have different breach faces, and possibly different ejectors. You need a different slide, at least, to convert.

The research I did before my conversion said it was ok with the same slide and same ejector, and I have roughly 1500 rounds of flawless function to back it up. I’m leaving mine as is.

 

[Choid]

The research I did before my conversion said it was ok with the same slide and same ejector, and I have roughly 1500 rounds of flawless function to back it up. I’m leaving mine as is.

Sweet. I am glad to hear it works. I have a 21 slide set up as a 460 Rowland, so I haven't had to try.

 

[Burning sensation]

Sweet. I am glad to hear it works. I have a 21 slide set up as a 460 Rowland, so I haven't had to try.

460 Rowland would be a neat one.
I should edit to say reliable function in place of flawless. Brass get thrown behind me, and the ejection pattern is a little erratic. Some would consider that a flaw, and it would likely be improved with a new ejector.

 

[Prebanpaul]

I had the nighthawk agent 2 in 10mm and I have 4 smith and wesson 610 revolvers. 10mm is a fun underated round.

 

[HTX_17]

I had the nighthawk agent 2 in 10mm and I have 4 smith and wesson 610 revolvers. 10mm is a fun underated round.

Why did you get rid of the Nighthawk?

 

[Prebanpaul]

someone had more money than me and wanted it more than me. It was the finest pistol I have every owned.

 

[Huskerhunter]

I’ll take the $2K pistol and blow the rest on something else that makes my PP hard and have multiple toys.

Might have to be my new signature line....

 

[Shifty_One]

Delta carry-comp. Love it.

 

[427Cobra]

at any other time I would recommend against a 10mm, reason why is I can load the same bullets and push then at the same speed out of my 40cal Infinity, reason why is I load them at 1.2oal, but today 10mm ammo might be easier to get for non reloaders

 

[TheChief]

I've got a Dan Wesson Bruin, haven't shot the Kodiak yet, but if its anything like this I don't know that it would be worth spending the extra $2k on a custom. This thing shoots like a dream. The Kodiak has a bull barrel so it's got a bit more weight out front so it should shoot softer. 10mm ammo is also available everywhere right now which is very refreshing. I'd personally get a Dan Wesson, and with the extra $2k I'd get a holster, tons of ammo, and a half dozen Tripp mags for it. I've also got a 5" Springield RO Elite in 10mm that is fully customized with Harrison parts and its phenomenal.

 

[Flightmurse]

Might I suggest a guncrafter industries no name in 10mm? I find them to be one of the most aesthetically pleasing 1911’s out there and the craftsmanship is unbelievable.

 

[soap11x]

The springfield TRP in 10mm must be the best 1911 under $2k that I have ever shot. My good friend owns one and I'm always looking forward to going to the range with him because of that one gun. It's truly awesome. Custom fitted slide at that price is somewhat rare.

 

[rezrocket]

I've got a Dan Wesson Bruin, haven't shot the Kodiak yet, but if its anything like this I don't know that it would be worth spending the extra $2k on a custom. This thing shoots like a dream. The Kodiak has a bull barrel so it's got a bit more weight out front so it should shoot softer. 10mm ammo is also available everywhere right now which is very refreshing. I'd personally get a Dan Wesson, and with the extra $2k I'd get a holster, tons of ammo, and a half dozen Tripp mags for it. I've also got a 5" Springield RO Elite in 10mm that is fully customized with Harrison parts and its phenomenal. View attachment 7429037

I agree if anyone wants a Bull Barrel as a deal breaker I will gladly hand fit one for 1500.00

 

[rezrocket]

Might I suggest a guncrafter industries no name in 10mm? I find them to be one of the most aesthetically pleasing 1911’s out there and the craftsmanship is unbelievable.

Gun Crafter is very nice. Their stuff has some nice upgrades. Their extractor post that insert in the frame is massive. No chance in breaking that off short of a chromatic. And they are very pleasant to deal with.

 

[btorrey]

Take a look at triarc. They're Tri 11's are offered in 10mm. You'll pay for it, but they are a great company that produce outstanding guns

 

[Totoro]

If you looked hard enough you could most likely find a real Heinie for $3500.

An OG R.Heinie from the man himself, IMO, is an heirloom.

If given my choice, a true Heinie would be mine.

That and a Paul Liebenberg.

Not taking anything away from the current crop of pistosmiths, though. Just my want list!

Backt to OP, I had a Kimber Eclipse in 10mm that shot quite well. But in a moment of weakness sold it to a shooting buddy.

 

[btorrey]

volkmann precision. Luke Volkmann does awesome work