High end rifle issue

[Roblonsberry]

Hello,
I’m relatively new to posting but have been shooting for several decades

I have a high end rifle but don’t want to bash the company so I won’t post the manufacturer. Need less to say I’ve put $10k into this setup. Bartlein lapped barrel. Nightforce scope .

I’ve been reloading for a 338 lapua. I’ve shot hundreds of rounds now through it and have found a good speed node. SD are always under 10. The best group at 100 has been ,75”. My friend whom has been shooting long range for decades shoots it the same.

My hand loads are all weighed individually within .1 grains of h1000. Same brick of CCI 250. I’ve used a comparator on all my measurements and the shoulders are bumped back .002”. Base to ogive are all within .0005. In groups of five I’ve seated from touching the lands to ten thou off in .002 increments. I’ve tried 250, 300 and 285 all with these methods. All match grade. I even bough a concentricity tool and none of them are over .0002. All Lapua brass. All Redding full length sized with .002 neck tension. I even wipe them down before single feeding them

I torqued all the bolts, rings, scope bases to the manufactures spec. No brake strikes. Put a bore scope down it and can see anything other than minor scratches. I cleaned it too.

i can hit a 3” gong at 500 with my 6,5 Tikka very consistently. I’ve had 1” groups at 400 under ideal conditions with my Tikka. I don’t think it’s shooter error. I use my parallax correction religiously.

I think that’s as thorough as possible.

i took them out to 200 thinking the group would improve due to the fact the manufacturer claim it’s yaw but at 200 the best group I got was 2.5”. Some are over 3” At 500 I’d get a hit and then the next shot would be way over a foot off. 2km winds.

Am I just burning money and have a bad barrel?

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

Buy some factory match grade (.338LM?) ammo

Go to 100yd
Shoot x5 group with Tikka 6.5
Shoot x5 group with factory .338LM
Shoot x5 group of .338LM handloads
Label the 3 groups and take picture of them

Move to 200yd
Shoot x5 group of Tikka 6.5
Shoot x5 group of .338LM handloads
Shoot x5 group of factory .338LM
Label and take picture of groups

Post pics of results

 

[ForgeValley]

Is your friend getting the same results at 200? Are you both experienced large bore shooters?

No offense, I always just look at the shooter first. I have definitely seen 1/2 moa shooters in small calibers fall apart a bit when first shooting something like a 338.

 

[spamassassin]

I'll preface this by saying that I have no trouble shooting groups very consistently under most circumstances. Living in California suppressors are a no-go but almost all of my real-world shooting is done with a suppressor attached, obviously not in Kommiefornia, and from the prone position. When I bought my Desert Tech M2 I got a grip of barrels for it, including SAC-made on Bartlein blanks, ES Tactical made on K&P blanks and factory DT. After shooting my 6XC and .223 barrels I was stoked to try out the .308Win/.338WM/.300WM/.338LM barrels and was sadly dissappointed by two of them when I first shot them. The factory brakes are not super effective and on the .338LM and .300WM they did not do me any favors. That combined with shooting from a bench with all manner of blast walls and bullet deflector panels that the range has in place instead of from prone out in open country; since I shoot mostly with a suppressor and from prone in the real world and there is a distinct lack of walls when I do, combined to form a Voltron of poor performance. While I could pull off a decent group with them now and again with the 338lm/300wm I was definitely suffering the effects of recoil and blast anticipation (fine, if you need to call me a wuss cal me a wuss). The APA and A419 brakes on the others made a lot of difference and getting away from walls and ceilings sealed the deal and I had no trouble putting down very snug groups. I know that if I shoot the magnums in a place that's going to amplify the perceived blast I won't get very many rounds fired before I start flinching. If I shoot sitting up at a bench I'm not as consistent as I am from prone. YMMV but I'm betting there's some recoil fatigue/anticipation in the mix.

 

[ForgeValley]

No wuss about it! If you are shooting with a not ideal brake, and you are living that blast 2 or 3 times as it bounces off blast barriers, getting a sub moa group is tough. As you said, a good brake and nothing to bounce that blast back on you can work wonders.

 

[Roblonsberry]

Is your friend getting the same results at 200? Are you both experienced large bore shooters?

No offense, I always just look at the shooter first. I have definitely seen 1/2 moa shooters in small calibers fall apart a bit when first shooting something like a 338.

I’m not experienced with large bore but he shoots hot 300 win mags for decades
we shoot the same groups

 

[Roblonsberry]

I'll preface this by saying that I have no trouble shooting groups very consistently under most circumstances. Living in California suppressors are a no-go but almost all of my real-world shooting is done with a suppressor attached, obviously not in Kommiefornia, and from the prone position. When I bought my Desert Tech M2 I got a grip of barrels for it, including SAC-made on Bartlein blanks, ES Tactical made on K&P blanks and factory DT. After shooting my 6XC and .223 barrels I was stoked to try out the .308Win/.338WM/.300WM/.338LM barrels and was sadly dissappointed by two of them when I first shot them. The factory brakes are not super effective and on the .338LM and .300WM they did not do me any favors. That combined with shooting from a bench with all manner of blast walls and bullet deflector panels that the range has in place instead of from prone out in open country; since I shoot mostly with a suppressor and from prone in the real world and there is a distinct lack of walls when I do, combined to form a Voltron of poor performance. While I could pull off a decent group with them now and again with the 338lm/300wm I was definitely suffering the effects of recoil and blast anticipation (fine, if you need to call me a wuss cal me a wuss). The APA and A419 brakes on the others made a lot of difference and getting away from walls and ceilings sealed the deal and I had no trouble putting down very snug groups. I know that if I shoot the magnums in a place that's going to amplify the perceived blast I won't get very many rounds fired before I start flinching. If I shoot sitting up at a bench I'm not as consistent as I am from prone. YMMV but I'm betting there's some recoil fatigue/anticipation in the mix.

I don’t generally shoot 25 rounds or less and take breaks after 5 shot groups. I have a good brake and the rifle is quite heavy. It’s a bit loud but I don’t seem to feel effects of recoil fatigue. I honestly enjoy the blast.

 

[nn8734]

Hello,
I’m relatively new to posting but have been shooting for several decades

I have a high end rifle but don’t want to bash the company so I won’t post the manufacturer. Need less to say I’ve put $10k into this setup. Bartlein lapped barrel. Nightforce scope .

I’ve been reloading for a 338 lapua. I’ve shot hundreds of rounds now through it and have found a good speed node. SD are always under 10. The best group at 100 has been ,75”. My friend whom has been shooting long range for decades shoots it the same.

My hand loads are all weighed individually within .1 grains of h1000. Same brick of CCI 250. I’ve used a comparator on all my measurements and the shoulders are bumped back .002”. Base to ogive are all within .0005. In groups of five I’ve seated from touching the lands to ten thou off in .002 increments. I’ve tried 250, 300 and 285 all with these methods. All match grade. I even bough a concentricity tool and none of them are over .0002. All Lapua brass. All Redding full length sized with .002 neck tension. I even wipe them down before single feeding them

I torqued all the bolts, rings, scope bases to the manufactures spec. No brake strikes. Put a bore scope down it and can see anything other than minor scratches. I cleaned it too.

i can hit a 3” gong at 500 with my 6,5 Tikka very consistently. I’ve had 1” groups at 400 under ideal conditions with my Tikka. I don’t think it’s shooter error. I use my parallax correction religiously.

I think that’s as thorough as possible.

i took them out to 200 thinking the group would improve due to the fact the manufacturer claim it’s yaw but at 200 the best group I got was 2.5”. Some are over 3” At 500 I’d get a hit and then the next shot would be way over a foot off. 2km winds.

Am I just burning money and have a bad barrel?

How many rounds on that barrel?

 

[Roblonsberry]

How many rounds on that barrel?

About 260

 

[JustSendit]

Sounding like a bad barrel. Try factory ammo with a projectile you haven’t tried. If that doesn’t work I’d probably say the barrel has an issue. It happens to everyone, eventually you get a good manufactures barrel that just does not hammer with any loads and projectiles you’ve got to try.

The snipershide disciples of Litz may hang me but… you could try a tuner!

 

[nn8734]

About 260

Has it ever shot well or have you been struggling with it since round 1?
Scratch that, reread your original post…did nothing group well during load development?

id try some black hills, lapua, federal or berger 250 or 300g stuff (assuming you have a 10 twist for the 300-330s) and see if they group. If you can’t get factory ammo to group, id condemn the barrel and stick another tube on it (have the builder/rifle company in the loop so they can take care of you).

Also, SD (just an indicator of muzzle velocity consistency) and precision (how well it groups) have nothing to do with each other. So you could have a losd that’s super consistent mv-wise but groups like a 12-gauge.

 

[JustSendit]

I reread your loading practice, maybe I misread again..

Before you call it quits I’d be more radical with your seating depth. I’d go .010, .020, .030, .040.. then jam em.

Might be some work but sometimes you hit something the gun likes outside of 10 thou off..

I’m a novice with a lot of expensive equipment though who mostly shoots team and PRs matches so absolutely take the advice of a real expert over me.. I’m just saying might as well try!

 

[nn8734]

I reread your loading practice, maybe I misread again..

Before you call it quits I’d be more radical with your seating depth. I’d go .010, .020, .030, .040.. then jam em.

Might be some work but sometimes you hit something the gun likes outside of 10 thou off..

I’m a novice with a lot of expensive equipment though who mostly shoots team and PRs matches so absolutely take the advice of a real expert over me.. I’m just saying might as well try!

Actually, i think that’s his problem, assuming he’s using hybrids or tangent ogive bullets…he’s too close to the lands.

Had a 185 berger jug load that was a single digit sd at .010 off but grouped like shit. Backed it off to .050 and was consistently .75moa (308 win)…sd went to low teens but who cares…

OP, try a couple groups at .040-.060 and see what happens (assuming youre not using VLD/secant bullets).

 

[lte82]

Try some Lapua Scenar 300gr. Seriously. They have shot great in all of the 338s I’ve had. SMKs shot pretty good too. Berger hybrids were pretty picky, which I thought was weird because of how forgiving and accurate literally every other hybrid I has been.

 

[Precision Underground]

What’s the setup? Action/stock?

 

[Roblonsberry]

Sounding like a bad barrel. Try factory ammo with a projectile you haven’t tried. If that doesn’t work I’d probably say the barrel has an issue. It happens to everyone, eventually you get a good manufactures barrel that just does not hammer with any loads and projectiles you’ve got to try.

The snipershide disciples of Litz may hang me but… you could try a tuner!

I was thinking about it but considering I’ve tried 4 weights and seating depths from the lands back a ways with no acceptable results I figure it’s a waste of $400

 

[Roblonsberry]

Try some Lapua Scenar 300gr. Seriously. They have shot great in all of the 338s I’ve had. SMKs shot pretty good too. Berger hybrids were pretty picky, which I thought was weird because of how forgiving and accurate literally every other hybrid I has been.

I tried them and the begers.

 

[JustSendit]

I tried them and the begers.

I just had a 223 barrel and I think I poured 400rds in load development and it never shoot great. Once you rule out yourself, loading practices and equipment being properly tightened in specs ect. The last thing left ends up being the barrel and it’s potential flaws.

I eventually shoot 77gr sierras boxed and it still performed poorly…

There’s lemons out there.

 

[Rob01]

I reread your loading practice, maybe I misread again..

Before you call it quits I’d be more radical with your seating depth. I’d go .010, .020, .030, .040.. then jam em.

Might be some work but sometimes you hit something the gun likes outside of 10 thou off..

I’m a novice with a lot of expensive equipment though who mostly shoots team and PRs matches so absolutely take the advice of a real expert over me.. I’m just saying might as well try!

That's some good advice. Being so close to the lands is not always the best for accuracy. Never had any of my magnums closer than .020" off and all shot great. I would load some farther off the lands and see what happened.

 

[Bacarrat]

I'm not going to say it's the cause, but I have had a barrel that kind of did the same thing. Turns out the barrel didn't like the brake on the it. Changed the brake/suppressor setup and it shot well. Had this happen to me more then once actually and not only me, another friend experienced the same thing. More recently I just had a Proof prefit that didn't like it when I put the Keymo setup on. Went back to a direct thread on suppressor and the groups went back to normal.

 

[Roblonsberry]

I just had a 223 barrel and I think I poured 400rds in load development and it never shoot great. Once you rule out yourself, loading practices and equipment being properly tightened in specs ect. The last thing left ends up being the barrel and it’s potential flaws.

I eventually shoot 77gr sierras boxed and it still performed poorly…

There’s lemons out there.

Ya. Just my luck. Spent $10k on a kit and it doesn’t shoot worth a sh!t.
It’s a 8-12 month waiting list too

 

[Roblonsberry]

I'm not going to say it's the cause, but I have had a barrel that kind of did the same thing. Turns out the barrel didn't like the brake on the it. Changed the brake/suppressor setup and it shot well. Had this happen to me more then once actually and not only me, another friend experienced the same thing. More recently I just had a Proof prefit that didn't like it when I put the Keymo setup on. Went back to a direct thread on suppressor and the groups went back to normal.

Interesting. Were you getting contact from the bullet?
I’ve used a couple different brakes on my Tikkas and all it did was change POI

 

[Roblonsberry]

That's some good advice. Being so close to the lands is not always the best for accuracy. Never had any of my magnums closer than .020" off and all shot great. I would load some farther off the lands and see what happened.

At this rate I’ll burn the barrel out before I get it figured. Lol.
I’m not sure exactly what the distance was off the top of my head but the match factory loads I tried were quite a way off.

 

[Roblonsberry]

What’s the setup? Action/stock?

It’s a Remington 700 clone action, bartlein barrel.

 

[Rob01]

It’s a Remington 700 clone action, bartlein barrel.

Get with @Frank Green and see if he can help with the barrel. Maybe you can pop it off and have them look at it.

 

[nn8734]

It’s a Remington 700 clone action, bartlein barrel.

As I mentioned above, try .060 off and see what happens. Ive personally never seen or had any issue getting a magnum/super mag to shoot when using H1000 and Bergers, Sierras or Lapua Scenars. If you still cant get to group, id start looking hard at the barrel/chamber or something else on the rilfe (maybe bbl isnt free-floated properly, for example).

 

[Bacarrat]

Interesting. Were you getting contact from the bullet?
I’ve used a couple different brakes on my Tikkas and all it did was change POI

I contribute it down to barrel harmonics.

For example, on my MC, I was running a Silencerco Hybrid with a direct thread mount, I decided to change it over to the Keymo mount. Never had a issue with it before on any of the barrels I have used. But on this barrel, when I put it on, it wouldn't shoot anything below 1 MOA. Took the Keymo off and put the direct thread back on, shot fine. On another barrel I put on a self timing brake that wouldnt shoot worth a shit. Changed brake and it shot fine. No changes to the ammo or anything else.

 

[Roblonsberry]

Get with @Frank Green and see if he can help with the barrel. Maybe you can pop it off and have them look at it.

I would but he’s a long way from me in Ontario

 

[Roblonsberry]

As I mentioned above, try .060 off and see what happens. Ive personally never seen or had any issue getting a magnum/super mag to shoot when using H1000 and Bergers, Sierras or Lapua Scenars. If you still cant get to group, id start looking hard at the barrel/chamber or something else on the rilfe (maybe bbl isnt free-floated properly, for example).

I haven’t come across anyone that has either. I’ll have another look after work and make sure nothings out of spec.

 

[bax]

I would but he’s a long way from me in Ontario

Frank is in Wisconsin. Is the border that difficult to penetrate? Is there something tricky about shipping a barrel to the States from Canada?

 

[Frank Green]

Frank is in Wisconsin. Is the border that difficult to penetrate? Is there something tricky about shipping a barrel to the States from Canada?

It's the frickin import/export bullshit. That most likely is going to be an issue.

We cannot just ship barrels up to Canada with out having import/export license approval. Getting a barrel back you are most likely going need to do the same thing. So it's not as easy as it seems even though Canada is our neighbor to the U.S. let alone us here in WI.

 

[Frank Green]

Here are my initial thoughts and questions and not in any particular order....

Give us some more load data? 88gr of H1000? 98gr of H1000 etc...with which bullet blah blah blah.

What finish length is the barrel? I ask because the 338 Lapua is a violent round is the only way to say/describe it. If your running a shorter length barrel lets say 20" to 22" there is so much pressure behind the bullet when it leaves the muzzle...they are harder to make them shoot good vs a longer 26" / 27" length barrel. Just the nature of the beast.

As much as you probably don't want to do this...take the brake off and shoot it with out the brake. Probably not going to help accuracy with recoil pounding the bejesus out of you but where I'm going with this is this..... the brake could be screwed on too tight. If it's screwed on too tight you can deform the bore right at the muzzle and this can cause accuracy issues. If you do take the brake off and shoot some groups with it and the groups shrink and the gun is consistent.... only put the brake on and snug it up. Don't crank on it. Put blue loctite on the threads and let it set up then. Then there is no reason to crank on it. As long as the brake doesn't loosen up (which will cause vibration issues which in turn will cause accuracy issues as well). If it shoots with out the brake and when the brake is reinstalled and not cranked on...you just found your issue.

What is the clearance between the bore of the brake and caliber. I like to see at some where around .030" over bullet diameter at a min. Even if you don't have bullet strikes....tighter doesn't mean better on the clearance.

Your seating depth. Closer/jamming doesn't mean better accuracy. Jump the bullet some more. load some up say .030" and .040" off the lands. Even in standard calibers (smaller than 338) I tell guys up to .060" off the lands and the gun can shoot better than being closer.

I've had box ammo with 250gr bullets from Ruag that was jumping a .160" and it would shoot .5 to .75moa.

How does the barrel clean? Does it copper foul bad? If so is it on top of the lands or some on the lands and some in the grooves?

Have you noticed one lot or one brand of bullets that fouls more than others?

How many rounds in between cleanings?

You say the barrel is installed on a Remington 700 action? If so what work has been done to the action? I ask because depending on if your using mags or even out of BDL bottom metal usually you have to open up the feed ramp to some extent. This makes that bottom lug of the receiver thinner and in my opinion this causes more flex with the receiver/bolt lock up and also is a safety concern. For this reason alone we here at Bartlein will not install 338 Lapua caliber barrels on a Rem. 700 factory action. I'm not trying to start an argument with the OP on this or anyone else reading this. I know people have built 338 Lapua's on Rem. 700's and for some it works and for some it's an issue. I/we just feel the 700 action your pushing the limits on what you can get away with and using the 338 Lapua round with a factory Rem. 700 action.

You say it's on a clone Rem. 700 action? Can I ask which one?

What is the actual spec. of the chamber reamer that was used to chamber the barrel? Do you have a copy of the reamer print? If so I'd like to see it.

Who did the work? Or I should be asking have you talked to the gunsmith and or have him look at it?

I'm assuming the stock is bedded?

I'm also going to assume no scope issues or you have tried a different scope. So we can rule out the scope is holding zero/tracking issues.

Could the barrel be an issue? Sure. As a gut feeling if it's shooting sub moa already then it's usually something else going on that's holding you back possibly. Just not to long ago I had a guy with a 308 barrel in 308w on PD sniper rifle that would only shoot .8 to 1moa. Right away it was the barrel being the issue. After we went thru everything it was the ammo in the end. Grabbed different ammo from two different makers and boom the gun dropped to .5 to say .6moa range. Handloads then dropped the gun to sub .5moa. I am no way saying this is what is happening here. There are just more things going on than what we all think at times.

Those are my thoughts for now.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

P.S. not just myself but other gunsmiths or barrel makers etc.. most would prefer you reach out to the people that did the work etc... before posting on a forum. The good shops etc... will always help in anyway they can.

Thanks Rob for tagging me on this... Get with @Frank Green and see if he can help with the barrel. Maybe you can pop it off and have them look at it. I'll help in anyway I can.

To the OP... if it makes you feel better you can PM me the information for now in regards to the reamer spec., action being used, stock etc....

I'll check the thread again in the morning.

 

[bax]

It's the frickin import/export bullshit. That most likely is going to be an issue.

We cannot just ship barrels up to Canada with out having import/export license approval. Getting a barrel back you are most likely going need to do the same thing. So it's not as easy as it seems even though Canada is our neighbor to the U.S. let alone us here in WI.

Ya shure OK

In 1972, I PCS'd to Fort Rich in Anchorage, I drove from Michigan. I took a CO2 pellet pistol across the Canadian border. The Canadian southern border guys made me promise to stop in Beaver Creek and show the Canadian norther border guys that I was taking it through into Alaska and I didn't sell it to some Canuck. I was young, and dumb, and I forgot. Months later they tracked me down and I had to go to a US State Department office in Anchorage and show them the pistol to prove that I still had it so they could tell Canada that all Canada was safe from a pellet pistol. There are a lot of nice people in Canada and I like it there but their government seems to have a terminal inferiority complex about the States.

 

[acudaowner]

you could always try hiring a crack team of illegal aliens to smuggle you the barrels in via the old donkey and pack animal trails that dot the north into Canada you know them the ones they used smuggle coffee in by , worrying only about the mounted police on moose back lol I can picture it now Juan Valdez and his donkey making a run for freedom through the oppressive lines of the Canadian boarder to bring you fresh coffee and a couple of barrels followed by there trusty mariachi band tracking over mountains of snow and ice lol. oh the tails you will have .


let freedom ring

 

[Frank Green]

Sounding like a bad barrel. Try factory ammo with a projectile you haven’t tried. If that doesn’t work I’d probably say the barrel has an issue. It happens to everyone, eventually you get a good manufactures barrel that just does not hammer with any loads and projectiles you’ve got to try.

This is what a bad barrel does. Look at the picture. I cannot give out all the details other than to say it's not our barrel. Testing was done by both the shop that put it together for the ammo/bullet maker for testing of a relatively new cartridge at the time during PSR2 and ASR. I was at the range the first time the gun was shot and the set up being tested and it was tested at both a 100 yards and 1000 yards. It's a big magnum round I won't give out the caliber/cartridge. Then the gun went back to the shop that did all the work. They checked everything and went and tested the set up again. They said doesn't happen often but it's a bad barrel.

The set up was rebuilt with our barrel. Same chamber reamer etc...gun went right to shooting.

So back to one of my comments earlier...if the gun is shooting consistent groups of .75moa. It's not a bad barrel. There is something else going on.

 

[Frank Green]

Other thoughts and again not in any order.

Could be the muzzle crown and or how much was cut off the muzzle end when the crown was done. We always give an extra 1" on the muzzle end to cut off and crown the barrel and to ensure you are in clean rifling.

I've seen guys cheat and change they're mind and want to run the barrel as long as possible and don't cut anything off. That's one scenario.

Also if the crown is damaged or not properly done it can also cause accuracy issues. Not small groups and also not really big groups but you just cannot get it to shoot really good. Or was the crown damaged during cleaning? Sometimes you just take the barrel and you can set the crown back a .100" or a .250" or just touch up the edge and you see the accuracy come right in.

I just had that with a 22RF. Factory 40x. It shot good but not great. Edge of the crown wasn't clean looking. Recrowned it....accuracy/groups shrunk.

 

[Frank Green]

I've been told several times over the years but don't remember everything but I was reminded of it by two different ammo/bullet makers just two weeks ago. The saying goes....

Bullets, powder, barrel.

All three can be very good/great components but the three have to work together. You get a different lot of powder even from the same maker for example and the combination of the three just doesn't work great. The different lot might need a different charge weight then previously is just one example.

If the OP has only tried H1000 trying a different powder would be on the list of things to look at.

One of the ballistic guys at Sierra a year or so ago...we made him a new 7mm barrel for his F open gun. His normal load was 4831sc. He said the gun shoot good but not great. Then he went and tried 4350 powder and he said man oh man...the gun just came to life like you wouldn't have expected.

 

[Frank Green]

Last thought and I'll check messages to see if the OP PM me.

Back to the gunsmithing and has the gun been sent back to the smith to look it over.

Small things like checking the crown and looking at the chamber work as well as looking at the bolt to barrel clearance. If you don't have enough clearance on the bolt to the breech end of the barrel and if the two will touch it will cause accuracy issues. Just last year we seen at the shop here guns built where there wasn't enough clearance. We cut the breech face with a little more clearance and the gun comes to life. Some builders will run like .005" clearance. I'm going to tell you that's not enough. I say .010" min on clearance and a tad more won't hurt ya but going less...you run into issues.

What torque setting is the barrel and action set to when it was installed? To light of a torque setting can cause issues.

So to sum everything up I posted...there are just a slew of things that it could be causing the accuracy issue. Yes it would be nice to have the barrel and or the rifle in hand to look at it.

Later, Frank

 

[Mike Casselton]

This is what a bad barrel does. Look at the picture. I cannot give out all the details other than to say it's not our barrel. Testing was done by both the shop that put it together for the ammo/bullet maker for testing of a relatively new cartridge at the time during PSR2 and ASR. I was at the range the first time the gun was shot and the set up being tested and it was tested at both a 100 yards and 1000 yards. It's a big magnum round I won't give out the caliber/cartridge. Then the gun went back to the shop that did all the work. They checked everything and went and tested the set up again. They said doesn't happen often but it's a bad barrel.

The set up was rebuilt with our barrel. Same chamber reamer etc...gun went right to shooting.

So back to one of my comments earlier...if the gun is shooting consistent groups of .75moa. It's not a bad barrel. There is something else going on.

View attachment 8056321

That looks like the groups (patterns) from my CZ-527 6.5 Grendel.
Inconsistent impact points. And groups wander around.

It's not bedding, it's not the loads, it's not the optic and most likely not the nut behind the butt.

I scoped it last month and the view from the inside reminded me of a Savage sewer pipe.
Most Savages will still shoot looking like that.
This is the only CZ I've ever encountered that didn't hammer.

Eventually it'll get a new barrel because it's too pretty to send down the road.



But yeah, what Frank said

 

[bax]

Mr. Green, I am currently shooting three Bartlein barrels - two 308s and a 300 PRC. They all do what they are supposed to do. I have a 300 Win Mag that shot well for almost 2,500 rounds then it just wouldn't - as you know, that is a lot of rounds for a 300 Win Mag. I have a nearly unfired 300 win mag. I will hang it if I need it - I have ammo loaded for it - but it has a VERY long lead. I think that there is another 30-cal shot-out Bartlein somewhere in my pile of tomato stakes but I can't remember it right now. I'm sure that other people make good stuff but every Bartlein I have and every one I have heard of just does the job. I'm contemplating a 6.5 CM and it will be one of yours.

 

[Frank Green]

Mr. Green, I am currently shooting three Bartlein barrels - two 308s and a 300 PRC. They all do what they are supposed to do. I have a 300 Win Mag that shot well for almost 2,500 rounds then it just wouldn't - as you know, that is a lot of rounds for a 300 Win Mag. I have a nearly unfired 300 win mag. I will hang it if I need it - I have ammo loaded for it - but it has a VERY long lead. I think that there is another 30-cal shot-out Bartlein somewhere in my pile of tomato stakes but I can't remember it right now. I'm sure that other people make good stuff but every Bartlein I have and every one I have heard of just does the job. I'm contemplating a 6.5 CM and it will be one of yours.

Thanks BAX!

You got 2500 on a 300WM. That is usually unheard of from the hard core accuracy side of things. Usually 800-1200 rounds is peak accuracy. Might squeak 1500 out of it.

Later, Frank

 

[Precision Underground]

This is what a bad barrel does. Look at the picture. I cannot give out all the details other than to say it's not our barrel. Testing was done by both the shop that put it together for the ammo/bullet maker for testing of a relatively new cartridge at the time during PSR2 and ASR. I was at the range the first time the gun was shot and the set up being tested and it was tested at both a 100 yards and 1000 yards. It's a big magnum round I won't give out the caliber/cartridge. Then the gun went back to the shop that did all the work. They checked everything and went and tested the set up again. They said doesn't happen often but it's a bad barrel.

The set up was rebuilt with our barrel. Same chamber reamer etc...gun went right to shooting.

So back to one of my comments earlier...if the gun is shooting consistent groups of .75moa. It's not a bad barrel. There is something else going on.

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This. It’s not sounding like a bad barrel at all just yet. I’d say that’s close to the last place to look considering what it is. The chances of a hand lapped Bartlein barrel getting out the door with issues is much less likely than a loose screw somewhere, stock contact somewhere that it shouldn’t be, a brake that’s too tight or not fitting correctly, a bad, chambering job, a bad crown, or any other of the countless things that can go wrong.
Sure there’s a lot of things that can go wrong with a barrel but when a blank is lapped and inspected by a person before it leaves one of the top makers in the business, that’s probably on the lower end of where you should look for problems.

 

[kthomas]

Lots of good advice here.

Also, don't forget that a cartridge such as a .338LM is much more demanding to shoot than a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Bad fundamentals that you can get away with on a 6.5 Creedmoor will eat you alive on something like a .338LM.

 

[Roblonsberry]

Frank is in Wisconsin. Is the border that difficult to penetrate? Is there something tricky about shipping a barrel to the States from Canada?

I can’t even get projectiles across the border. It’s ridiculous. Hell I’ve even had scope mounts refused entry.

 

[Roblonsberry]

Lots of good advice here.

Also, don't forget that a cartridge such as a .338LM is much more demanding to shoot than a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Bad fundamentals that you can get away with on a 6.5 Creedmoor will eat you alive on something like a .338LM.

I’ve been shooting with guys who have been doing this for a very long time. One fellow actually taught in the military. He hasn’t seen any issues with my fundamentals, thankfully.

 

[Frank Green]

I’ve been shooting with guys who have been doing this for a very long time. One fellow actually taught in the military. He hasn’t seen any issues with my fundamentals, thankfully.

Look over the other questions I posted.

Answer the best you can and I'll help you out in any way I can.

Later, Frank

 

[Roblonsberry]

This. It’s not sounding like a bad barrel at all just yet. I’d say that’s close to the last place to look considering what it is. The chances of a hand lapped Bartlein barrel getting out the door with issues is much less likely than a loose screw somewhere, stock contact somewhere that it shouldn’t be, a brake that’s too tight or not fitting correctly, a bad, chambering job, a bad crown, or any other of the countless things that can go wrong.
Sure there’s a lot of things that can go wrong with a barrel but when a blank is lapped and inspected by a person before it leaves one of the top makers in the business, that’s probably on the lower end of where you should look for problems.

Interesting you said that. I’ve turned the brake back a full turn and am going to try again.

 

[Frank Green]

Interesting you said that. I’ve turned the brake back a full turn and am going to try again.

Is it a tuner or a muzzle brake?

If it's some sort of a tuner or brake that is adjustable.... you've got another variable.

Back to my original reply....if it has a brake on it try taking it off and see how it shoots. Yes recoil is going to go up but if it shoots better with out the brake...then you have something going on with the brake and or it's on too tight.

 

[Roblonsberry]

Is it a tuner or a muzzle brake?

If it's some sort of a tuner or brake that is adjustable.... you've got another variable.

Back to my original reply....if it has a brake on it try taking it off and see how it shoots. Yes recoil is going to go up but if it shoots better with out the brake...then you have something going on with the brake and or it's on too tight.

Thanks Frank. I appreciate your expertise.

I apologize for not responding the your other comment. I’m new to forums.
I’m going to try to send you a pm sir.
I put the brake on to manufactures spec. 45lbs.
The groups you showed were just like mine at 200. My buddies 300wsm shoots better groups than this at 500.