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High end scale question
- Thread starter prcomte
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The FX120i is about the baseline for a real balance and they are ~$600. Even even you end up throwing powder directly into cases, its is nice getting real weights when dialing in the powder throw. Only you can say if its worth it. I use mine rarely/just to check a few charges every 100 and I still think it was worth it.
I'm using a charge master (on sale for 260 right now at midway I think) and it's good enough for me currently, the only thing I would consider changing it for is an andfx120 with an autotrickler but that's 800 all together. Just the scale isn't worth it in that the added accuracy would mean considerably longer measuring times and that's a deal killer to me. I've tried both the beam and small digital scale route and it made me want to pull my hair out with its picking the pan up each time etc. An automated scale is where it's at.
I just found out about this new complete powder throw http://www.autotrickler.com system the other day and it boasts 10 second throw time and accuracy within .02 grains - 1 kernel. wOOt!?!? It's not all that expensive ($399) for what it provides but you've got to have a very expensive scale to really make the system work. With the FX120i your looking at about $900 for the complete system. It's pretty amazing, though. I figure I could charge 3 cases (or slightly more) per minute with that rate and have all of them within 1 kernel of my desired charge. I spent in excess of $1k for my AMP annealer. So, spending that much on a TRULY accurate powder system isn't all that crazy, I guess. I'll probably try one once they're actually shipping.
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i have the FX120i and the auto trickler...the auto trickler is pretty nice and works well but i prefer and use the little dandy trickler.
For most LR Shooting, the Chargemaster is more than adequate, especially for shooting at steel. "The level of consistancy attained from a chargemaster class scale is acceptable for most LR shooting applications. Going from the chargemaster to the Satorius scale reduced the SD by only 1.2 fps on average from 10 to 8.8".
"Brian Litz" in "Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting"
Frankly, I believe that the wind will netralize any benefits seen in using whatever difference you're going to get between a CM & a much higher end scale. I have a friend that obsesses over every kernal of powder and has spent a BUNCH on higher end scales. We constantly out shoot him because we are out shooting in the wind while he's home fussing over his loads lol.
"Brian Litz" in "Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting"
Frankly, I believe that the wind will netralize any benefits seen in using whatever difference you're going to get between a CM & a much higher end scale. I have a friend that obsesses over every kernal of powder and has spent a BUNCH on higher end scales. We constantly out shoot him because we are out shooting in the wind while he's home fussing over his loads lol.
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The accuracy isn't all that you get with the autotrickler and Fx120i setup. It's the ease it's gets you to one kernel every time. I sit back and enjoy my time with the measuring of power stage of handloading. Totally stress free. It's worth it. I think about how I used to do it and breathe a sigh. I may have saved some of my hair.
I run a Sartorius Entris 64 and love it. It is more $ then the FX120i but as with all things you get what you are will to pay for. Go check out the video at Scaleman.com it show how accurate it is and how the to use it with a power trickler.
I think basically what folks are saying is. If you go this route and buy a 'high end scale" which ur post is named. You get not just a scale but you've bought into a system. For the price of you selling your charge master you can get any auto trickled system and you don't have to check your loads. The Fx120i and the sartorius are amazing scales. No need to check on those. If u have to buy a scale like this to check something that you feel is inferior. U might as well buy into the system. If the gen pro is good enough. Get a beam scale if u need something to compare to or another gen pro. I'd go for the high end system and not have to check on anything.
I considered an fx120i recently but my current setup works just fine and it wouldn't speed things up enough to cover the cost. I use a Chargemaster and check my throws with a Gempro, the cm is always within .04 of my target weight and 90% of the time it's .02 if it is off. If I was shooting elr I would definatley step up to a better scale and trickier. Shooting out to 1500 yards my setup works just fine.
^^ Proof that 260 is train-able. He's a bit on the slow side, but let's give credit for effort.
I agree with buying into a system. Though it'd be a slower process for me. I'd either have to buy the scale first then the trickler at a later date or save up some more money and buy it all at once.
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Ok. Myself & several friends shoot well past that across several calibers and do quite well with low SD'S & ES's loading only on chargemasters. You may be over thinking your need to measure powder to two decimal places. Discussing it amongst ourselves none of us have ever seemed it was necessary to upgrade. I could see the benefit for say, 1000yd BR competition where everything is measured in fractions of an inch, otherwise. Otherwise it seems like many are chasing unicorns.....
Chargemasters work great.
If you want to get really crazy here is a place with good prices:
http://www.affordablescales.com/laboratory-balances/precision-balances/
If you want to get really crazy here is a place with good prices:
http://www.affordablescales.com/laboratory-balances/precision-balances/
With proper load development nothing more than a Chargemaster is needed. I've been running 2 Chargemaster for years with highly accurate loads and all single digit SD's I had a Scott Parker tuned beam for years to.check the accuracy of my CM and they are consistently within .1g.
With proper load development to ensure you're in the center of a node .1g or 1 or 2 kernels isnt going to make a difference downramge. That's why I have never bought into the need of a scientific scale and money isn't the issue.
With proper load development to ensure you're in the center of a node .1g or 1 or 2 kernels isnt going to make a difference downramge. That's why I have never bought into the need of a scientific scale and money isn't the issue.
To convince yourself You need better, load up a couple of rounds each at +/- 0.1 and 0.2gr powder. Shoot them over a chrono and at range to quantify to what degree load variability hurts you. I have been shocked at how precisely the Chargemaster dispenses. During final trickling assure there is no vibration plus watch to insure no clump slips through and it should be +/- .04gr. Don't be misled by the 0.1 display resolution as it operates to a finer degree. Its all about the trickling!
Its only money....OCD can be a part time hobby when you use a high end scale. Its the ultimate rabbit hole. What you will find, is that to get the best measurements, one starts putting powder into coffee grinders or hand grinding kernels so they dont weight so much......(my scale goes out to 0.0001 of a grain)
Seriously....the answer to this question is really "what is the measure of your OCD level"? If you rate yourself higher than an 8 out of 10, get the better scale. If not, save yourself the money.
Seriously....the answer to this question is really "what is the measure of your OCD level"? If you rate yourself higher than an 8 out of 10, get the better scale. If not, save yourself the money.
Sort of....Yes, I know people that actually put the powder in a grinder so as to get small increments to get their weight to an exact level. However, it was NOT a recommendation, simply a comment about how far we want to take the reloading game. If one buys a high end set of calipers, they start to worry about the extra 0.0001 in seating depth. The same goes for powder scales - A high end Sartorious will only result in your attempting to weighing powder to the fourth decimal place....It gets very OCD, very quickly, at that level. (I found that I had to stop running two charge masters side by side, as one would throw 0.005 low, the other 0.005 high. Both would state the same weight at 43.3 grains, but one would round up, the other down when measured again on a high end scale. Drove me crazy!)
PS - Im not a reloading expert, but I have a lot of experience with OCD! lol
Changing the size of the kernels changes the burn rate properties of the powder and is extremely dangerous. Don't do that.
This is absolutely correct! Note, they do this only for the rounding up or down, not the entire load! (basically, 1/2 of one kernel)
pad nails the answer to your question.
If you test and if you are in the middle of your accuracy node then the CM will give you everything you need. Now, if you're shooting IBS 1,000 Yard Benchrest I would get a good manual powder thrower, FX120, and the Adam Mac Autotirckler. I do shoot that game and am all but the Autotrikler away from that set up. Have to keep up with all the "kernel counters" there.
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