Rifle Scopes High magnification scope owners, what power do you use 100 to 1000 yards?

[Nomad0001]

Getting my first scope that goes up to 20 power (SWFA SS 5-20 X 50)

The guys that taught the sniper class I took (Marine/LE snipers), said that all you need up to 1000 yards is a 10 power. They were quite insistent on that.

What power do you guys use in reality at say 100, 300, 500, 700, 1000 yards given > 10 X scopes?

MD

 

[Dogtown]

It depends. Sometimes mirage is a limiting factor, especially in higher humidity environments. If you're shooting without a spotter, you'll want to be backed out enough to be able to spot the splash post-recoil, which is significantly harder while zoomed in with a narrow FOV. Personally I tend to shoot 1000m at 10-12x and a mile at 25x - interpolated between those distances and values.

 

[Diver160651]

I've shot with (trying to figure out the best way to say it) people who have "sniper instructor ratings".

My takeaway-

Edit/deleted- said some shit I did not want to own up to. Sorry.

If your thinking ELR, your past much of the standard thinking. Get behind as many scopes as you can. Don't look at 1k and compare, but get out in the heat and look at 2k or your max distance. Practice all the basics of scope tuning, then resolve a MOA target. Instantly, you have your answer.

Btw all at MAX - you can always dial down after you decide. 25x works for me on one scope, when an other only works at 15x.


Jt

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[Kiwigrunt]

I have the same scope (SWFA 5-20) and a Bushnell 6-24. I use both at around 12 X +/- 2 from 100 to 1000. I only crank them up if I want to see holes in the paper.

 

[South tx]

10

 

[South tx]

Sometimes 12

 

[agbm]

I have a Leupold MK4 8.5-25X50mm, I love it!!!

 

[Rob01]

They were probably saying that as they shoot at full man sized targets and that's all they were given to use and trained on. Get target size down to MOA sized targets and more than 10 power is nice. Also not everyone's eyes are the same. Blanket statements like "all you need for 1000 yards is 10x" are wrong. Go to some F Class matches and see how many 10x scopes are on the shooters rifles. Pick the right tool for the right job.

I like 20-25x on the top end but usually use between 12-15x for most of my shooting but for certain stages and identify target drills having 20-25x is nice to have and makes life alot easier.

 

[South tx]

10x on 10"x10" steel @ 1000. Makes it easy to spot and plot my own shots w/o losing FOV. I also shoot a lot of unknown distance though . If I was punching paper, I'd go as high as I could while still maintaining good strong clarity

 

[todd]

I've been using 18-25x from 200 to 1K recently (depending on how bad the mirage is), works for me.

 

[LRShooter101]

I shoot on 42x every time I can at 300 yards (F-Class Mid Range Match). How about 14x for every 100 yards!

There is a very important saying, "Aim Small, Miss Small".

Per above, there are a number of factors that can limit your useful magnification range:
- Atmospheric, Mirage will be the main one, but Humidity can also limit the useful range
- Field of View, there are times that you will need a wider FOV, could be Situational Awareness or the need to spot misses

Your situation and application will also dictate what makes sense in terms of a useful magnification range. Per Rob's comment, you will need a lot less magnification for a Minute of Man target versus a MOA target. You also have to consider if Target DRI (Detection, Recognition, Identification) is in play. With a paper or steel target on a square range there is no need for Target DRI, but if you get into real world shooting or competitive shooting with unknown targets, and you first have to be able to find and positively identify your target, and more magnification always helps in that process.

In terms of the 1x per 100 yard crowd, they are usually Parrots repeating what was said based on the methodology from 30-40 years ago. If you look at the standard optics from 30-40 years ago where 10x was the top end, to the optics of today where 50x-60x is the top end, it is not hard to figure out where things have gone.

Scopes with 3x-6x on the Low End, and 20x-25x on the Top End, are very hard to beat for most shooting applications. There are times when more is better, but it tends to be limited to some very specific situations and applications.

Bottom Line, you can always dial back down if you need to, however you can't dial up to a power that you don't have!

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I run 30x for target identification and reading bullet hits on paper when I do not have a spotter. I dial it back so I have a good FOV and can see the splash on misses.

 

[dcnyli]

i use around 9-10X at 1000yd, with either of my 3-15 or 5-25 scopes I try to keep it low...

 

[South tx]

Real world shooting huh

 

[7mmRM]

15-25x for me. Other than coyote calling, I cant really think of an instance I've been below 15x for anything- barricades and movers included.

 

[Scott_at_Vortex]

All of the answers above have pretty much pointed out what I was going to say and that is this- It comes down to personal preference and the circumstance/situation. There is no right or wrong answer here.

Here is what I do- If I am shooting a stage that only has one target or one distance (which usually means the target(s) are small) I will be on the highest mag that mirage will allow for, no matter the distance. If I am shooting a stage that has multiple targets at multiple distances I will dial back to 12-17 so I have a wider field of view and can find the targets easier. I generally shoot movers anywhere between 8-12 power depending on the speed, again no matter the distance.


Best Regards
Scott

 

[ssgp2]

Choose your "sights" in regards to your targets, not the distance.


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[Shoottothrill]

I have a 5x-25 and I like to shoot from 17x on up from 100 to 1,000.

 

[damoncali]

The downsides to magnification are decreased field of view and decreased exit pupil. Otherwise, it's all upside - more is better. Practically speaking, things get really finicky around 25x or 30x.

You can of course shoot at 1000 yards a with iron sights. Or a 10x scope. You might even hit your target consistently. But if you want to hit a very small target at that range you will want more magnification. It's not a matter of "10x is all you need." There are real advantages to more power.

 

[LRShooter101]

Real world shooting huh

Different Strokes for Different Folks! One persons real world is not necessarily another's.

Mil - everything solicited and fielded by SOCOM in the last couple of years has been over 20x on the top end. Regular units are also slowly catching up. The majority of anything on a Mil Sniper Rifle will soon be 20x-30x on the top end.

Hunting - if you check out the crew at Gunwerks - Long Range Hunting Rifles | Berger Bullets | Ammunition | Turrets and many others over at Long Range Hunting Online Magazine, they are running a lot of optics past 20x on the top end for Long Range Hunting.

About the only real world shooters not consistently running optics above 20x on the top end are LE Snipers. Of course with 99% of the engagements being under 200 yards, not really the same needs.

10x is gone, 20x is in for now, but it would not surprise me to see 30x being the new norm very soon.

 

[CoryT]

It's important to realize that magnification does not help you shoot, it helps you to SEE. If you can resolve the target well enough to quarter it with the reticle, you can hit, presuming you know how to shoot. Seeing a man size target at 1000 well enough to quarter it and hit is not the same as seeing an 8" plate in a shadowed area. On the other hand, having a very high end on the variable normally limits you on the low end and what field of view you'll get. Shooting running targets at 50-60 yards at 8x is less fun than at 4x.

Everything about choosing a scope is a matter of varying advantages/disadvantages. You compromise between FOV, exit pupil, edge sharpness, light transmission, elevation travel, length/weight, FFP/SFP, knob types, click values, reticle design, cost, etc. At some point, you make a decision as to what features are required, what's nice to have and what's not really relevant.

 

[LRShooter101]

The world of Shooting Optics is currently going through some very major changes, and that is a very good thing for those of us pulling the trigger. That being the case, we no longer have to make the decisions and settle for what we did in optics years ago.

I would argue that the "1x per 100 Yards Rule" which was prominent years ago, was due it part to the technology/scope design limitations that existed then.

Top End Magnification Power and Magnification Ranges, are going up exponentially, and that is due to a number of improvements such as better glass, larger tube designs, and overall design improvements.

We now have scopes like a Bushnell XRS 4.5-30x50 / Vortex Razor HD II 4.5-27x56 / March Tactical 5-32x52 / Schmidt & Bender PM II 3-27x56, so we now have 3x-5x on the low end for FOV & Situational Awareness, and 27x-32x on the high end for Target DRI (Detection, Recognition, Identification).

Per many comments above:
- One optic is not optimal for all, application will dictate what is ultimately needed in an optic's design/features.
- All aspects/features of an optic need to considered, gaining high end magnification at the cost of a reduced FOV or Magnification Range may not be acceptable.
- Not all optics are created equal, a BSA 8-32x44 and a Nightforce 8-32x56 should not even be discussed in the same sentence.
- Chasing high end magnification can come with consequences, loss of FOV, loss of resolution, high price tag, etc
- Having quality high end magnification can also come with some major benefits, better Target DRI, more accurate range estimation, improved aiming and resulting accuracy, etc.

Some scope manufacturers, and some shooters are "getting it", and are moving well beyond the old mindset and designs. Some are also still stuck in the past.

Sorry for the sidetrack, but per the great discussion here, there is a lot that goes into optic selection and use, especially when you are pushing for higher end design, features, and function.


EDIT - I have used Target DRI multiple times, and some folks may not be up to speed on it, so here is the simple version:
Detection - hey, I think there is something moving over there. Can't tell you what it is, but I can detect something.
Recognition - oh, I think that thing moving over there is an animal, vehicle, person. I can't give you any specific details, but I can at least start the process of recognizing what it is.
Identification - OK, I can tell that animal moving over there is a moose. I can now start to determine finite details about the target.

Identification can further be broken down into:
100% Positive Identification - all necessary details to make the decision to take (or not take) a shot are present and identifiable.
Aiming Identification - a positive/acceptable aiming point is present and identifiable.

Obviously this is a "real world" shooting operational methodology, and is more critical for shooting outside of a square range.

When you get into this operational methodology, you start to develop an understanding of what it takes in terms of DRI for a given target, at a given range, with a given optic.

 

[Mikee36]

I dial up as much as I possibly can with mirage being the limiting factor. I have a 12-52x scope and absolutely love having all that magnificentication. When it's cold out and mirage is at a minimum I can see A LOT. But dial back as needed. That's on my bench gun. I run fixed 36x on my 22s (that only get shot to 100yds). My 300BLK has a 1-5x. Glass clarity also plays an important role in how much magnification you can get away with. IMO the more the better. But I like SFP and am not in the military and plan on shooting zombies from a bench in the shade from a long dam ways away.

 

[Bill Larson]

42x...most guys who compete LR do............

 

[Jungle George]

I shoot on 42x every time I can at 300 yards (F-Class Mid Range Match). How about 14x for every 100 yards!

There is a very important saying, "Aim Small, Miss Small".

Per above, there are a number of factors that can limit your useful magnification range:
- Atmospheric, Mirage will be the main one, but Humidity can also limit the useful range
- Field of View, there are times that you will need a wider FOV, could be Situational Awareness or the need to spot misses

Your situation and application will also dictate what makes sense in terms of a useful magnification range. Per Rob's comment, you will need a lot less magnification for a Minute of Man target versus a MOA target. You also have to consider if Target DRI (Detection, Recognition, Identification) is in play. With a paper or steel target on a square range there is no need for Target DRI, but if you get into real world shooting or competitive shooting with unknown targets, and you first have to be able to find and positively identify your target, and more magnification always helps in that process.

In terms of the 1x per 100 yard crowd, they are usually Parrots repeating what was said based on the methodology from 30-40 years ago. If you look at the standard optics from 30-40 years ago where 10x was the top end, to the optics of today where 50x-60x is the top end, it is not hard to figure out where things have gone.

Scopes with 3x-6x on the Low End, and 20x-25x on the Top End, are very hard to beat for most shooting applications. There are times when more is better, but it tends to be limited to some very specific situations and applications.

Bottom Line, you can always dial back down if you need to, however you can't dial up to a power that you don't have!

This is by far the best explanation/argument I have heard to date! I'm going to copy it and save it to reference later. Thanks!

Cheers,

Geoge

 

[lovec]

Getting my first scope that goes up to 20 power (SWFA SS 5-20 X 50)...

I have the same scope and usually it´s set between 14x and 20x for 1000m. Depends on air conditions, humidity, mirage.... On the next scope (Premier 5-25x56) is it almost the same, the maximum 25x is used mostly for 1200-1500m shots.

 

[D.ID]

I run my 6-24 at 24x 90% of the time. White full size steel can be engaged out to 1K and beyond with a 4x but......
Things to consider: the bad guys never were white, or florescent orange, or stand out in the clearing. Modern bad guys ware body armor which dictates a head shot or extremity hit............. better to plan on being able to aim accordingly. "Good enough" Seldom really is.

 

[Raymond Johnson]

The world of Shooting Optics is currently going through some very major changes, and that is a very good thing for those of us pulling the trigger. Per many comments above:
- Not all optics are created equal, a BSA 8-32x44 and a Nightforce 8-32x56 should not even be discussed in the same sentence.


QUOTE]

and.... just what's wrong with a BSA scope..... ?????






Lol....

 

[Beiruty]

This question has to be stated like this:
1) My target is so so MOA.
2) At Max Magnification, I can resolve 1-MOA or 2-MOA
3) Is my Max Mag is enough?

 

[Beiruty]

The world of Shooting Optics is currently going through some very major changes, and that is a very good thing for those of us pulling the trigger. Per many comments above:
- Not all optics are created equal, a BSA 8-32x44 and a Nightforce 8-32x56 should not even be discussed in the same sentence.


QUOTE]

and.... just what's wrong with a BSA scope..... ?????






Lol....

BSA or BARSKA? lol.

 

[jeffl838]

Id like to meet the sniper that can pid with a 10x scope.

 

[sib1948]

As many others have said, the best power for the prevailing conditions. That can fluctuate from hour to hour. My old eyes generally need more magnification!

 

[TheGerman]

I have a Steiner 5-25x and I am only 12x about 90% of the time. 20x+ usually only comes out when milling something.

Mirage starts getting worse the more you go over 10x or so and eats up any advantage you may have with the higher power. If the conditions are good, then you can go to 18x or so and see the benefit over 10-12x but don't rely on it because it can be great one day and horrible the next.

 

[dsnipe]

I adjust scope according to my target size. You will find that on max power on a lot of scopes shooting at 1k at small targets the reticle will cover target up. Also as mentioned mirage plays a huge effect on magnification operating range. I have a 5-20x50 swfa and it stays on 10-12 power majority of time. Best of luck buddy.

 

[LRShooter101]

Just got back from shooting the National Mid Range Matches (F-Class at 300, 500, 600 yds) at Camp Perry.



For reference the X Ring is 0.5 MOA and the 10 Ring is 1.0 MOA, so "Aim Small, Miss Small" is a must if you don't want to drop any points.

I was running a Nightforce Benchrest 12-42x56, and everything mentioned above came into play:
- I spent about 70% of the time on 42x, we had cooler temps, and some cloud cover, so the mirage was not an issue.
- We had one point where the humidity and temps went up with strong direct sun, and the mirage got so bad that we had to dial down into the high 20s - low 30s on power.
Having a scope with a broad magnification range allowed me to get into the max power that I could based on the conditions. As usual, when I got into the "soup/mirage" and had to dial back down on power, it made it much harder to have a very precise aiming/holding point on the target.

If you looked at the top shooters there, they were all running scopes above 30x, with some even running 50x-60x.

Just remember this is "Bullseye Target Shooting", where having a low end option with a wide field of view really does you no good. So running the lower end of the magnification range up to 8x-12x is acceptable to get the higher powers/ranges on the top.

Nothing like shooting at Camp Perry!

 

[Ring]

They were probably saying that as they shoot at full man sized targets and that's all they were given to use and trained on. Get target size down to MOA sized targets and more than 10 power is nice. Also not everyone's eyes are the same. Blanket statements like "all you need for 1000 yards is 10x" are wrong. Go to some F Class matches and see how many 10x scopes are on the shooters rifles. Pick the right tool for the right job.

I like 20-25x on the top end but usually use between 12-15x for most of my shooting but for certain stages and identify target drills having 20-25x is nice to have and makes life alot easier.

this.. people are big.. other targets arnt... the cold bore shot in 1 of out matches is a 1" sticker with a letter on it on a board with 30+ others.. so you need to be able to find AND read the sticker.. that aint happening at 10x

also, accurating milling of a small object at 500+ aint going to work vary well at 10x..

example from a match.. steel plate, 2.5"x10" "slot" at 500y was our UKD to mill