Sidearms & Scatterguns HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

[Csolson987]

I want to get a general all around handgun for both target shooting as well as defense/combat purposes. I prefer .45 over 9mm simply for stopping power but I would consider the sig in .40
Any other suggestions?

 

[SmokyJoe]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

I don't know about the HK, but the SP2022 is a super light frame. Recoil is sharp. Nice pistol, but I prefer more frame weight in .45 cal. Even in 9mm w/115gr, it jumps a bit much for quick, accurate dbl taps.

 

[johnsobr]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Save yourself a few hundred bucks. Glock 21 with nite sights. Spend left over for tlr-2 and ammo. If not then mp45 or hk45.

 

[BigBoss0311]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Please read these, they may influence your decision:

http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027
http://pistol-training.com/archives/4294

 

[phm14]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

If accuracy is a priority, go with a Sig in 9mm or .45. .40 is generally less accurate than these calibers in any given gun.
The HK will likely be more accurate than the Glock, but not by much. If the gun will be carried concealed, the extra slide release lever on the HK adds ~3mm of width, which sucks. I just sold a P30 .40 that fits great in the hand, but between the crappy trigger, sights and fat LH slide release it was a no go for me. I've also had lots of Glocks, but I always come back to the Sig. These days I favor a P220 Carry SAS for CC, A P220 Combat TB w CTC & a TLR2 for a nightstand gun, and a X-5 Comp 9mm, P220 ST Elite, or P226 ST Elite 9mm for range fun.

 

[smgrendel]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

I would get your hands on all of them. I just bought a hk45 without ever holding one. After a few hours and a hundred rounds I'm selling it. Very accurate more so than a sig p220 elite just didn't work with my grip. Its hard to beat a 1911 nothing feels better to me. If your going to shoot a lot they take a lot of work and time you will also spend a lot on mags. I carry a sig when working and hate everything about it. Off duty and competition I will carry and shoot a glock from now on.
This is nothing more than my opinion and not worth much to anyone but me.
Try as many as you can and save yourself some money. If you want a hk45 I have a basically new one for sale.

 

[phm14]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

That's always good advice-see how they feel and shoot to you. It may take some time and resources, but this is a serious tool that lives could depend on. Choosing the one that works for you is just part of the overall responsibilty.
Glock and Sig are the top dogs for good reasons. Each has it's strong points, so the choice boils down to preference. The Glock is lighter, and cheaper. I prefer the Sig because of the excellent SA trigger, feel in the hand & overall quality.

 

[david777]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

I have an HK45 and its a great gun. Look at the FNP 45 also, mine is every bit as accurate and very pleasant to shoot. I had a Sig P220 Elite, nice but 8 round capacity in this day is a real disadvantage.

 

[longguntoter]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

In my humble opinion, I would go with the 1911. The .40 is nothing to sneeze at mind you, but the ammo cost is right up there with the .45 ACP. HK builds an excellent gun, but to me they are more along the lines of a duty gun, kinda like the SIGS. They are generally large guns, and a little tough to conceal. The 1911 is large too, but thin. That is key to concealment. There are tons of accessories out there for the 1911 as well so that you can make the gun more to your personal preference.

 

[geometro]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Everybody's hands are a little different: if you can try or at least handle them all, that would be the best bet.

My vote would be a HK45c for a general purpose no fuss no muss pistol.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

HK is over priced and overrated, Sigs, XDs have a high bore axis, Glocks and M&P kick ass on price, but the 1911 trumps them all, try before you buy at a range that rents pistols.

 

[phm14]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David777</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an HK45 and its a great gun. Look at the FNP 45 also, mine is every bit as accurate and very pleasant to shoot. I had a Sig P220 Elite, nice but 8 round capacity in this day is a real disadvantage. </div></div>
P220 is 8+1, w 10 rnd mags for backup or HD. I find the fit to hand, and added conceal-ability of the single stack is a good benefit for me. I feel the stopping power of the .45 compensates for mag capacity to a degree. How many hits with a Defensive load like Win. Ranger T will you need? I had a Para Ord. P14. Grips are huge w a double stack .45.

 

[phm14]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HK is over priced and overrated, Sigs, XDs have a high bore axis, Glocks and M&P kick ass on price, but the 1911 trumps them all, try before you buy at a range that rents pistols. </div></div>
Fact is, the bore axis on Sigs doesn't amount to any additional felt recoil or muzzle flip for me. If fast follow up shots are what your getting at, have you tried the Sig SRT (short reset trigger)? I love it. For me, a manual safety on a carry gun is a no go. 1911s can also be finicky with ammo/mags-issues I've never experienced shooting Sigs for the last ~18 years.
There's no perfect gun for every task (except maybe the Seals' go to sidearm), or every hand. This discussion will naturally revert to "do some research to narrow the field, then try out your choices". Shoot them if you can. If you can't, at least get to a shop where you can feel them in hand. BTW, I haven't been tempted to try the poly Sig, and Sig has had issues, like any other maker.

 

[Mgordon]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

I just picked up a HK 45C and I'm wondering which holster options I'm going to go with. So far I have not seen too much offerings for the HK 45C as some of the other brands. That could help you decide if you are torn.

Mark

 

[phm14]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.Gordon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just picked up a HK 45C and I'm wondering which holster options I'm going to go with. So far I have not seen too much offerings for the HK 45C as some of the other brands. That could help you decide if you are torn.

Mark </div></div>
Good point. The Galco I ordered for my HK P30 was also speced for the XD. It was not formed for the big LH slide lever, which pushed the leather on the outside of the rig out far enough to drop a couple chopsticks in. Not a good fit at all. Only time I ever sent a Galco back.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Occidental Leather makes some pretty nice stuff for the HK45 and 45c. Sparks, and a lot of other custom makers make holsters too.

 

[error4o4]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

The HK45, hands down.

The Sig isn't in the same ball park. Depending on the 1911, you could find a nicer pistol. However, you'll sacrifice features (arguably), weight, and capacity.

 

[david777]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: phm14</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David777</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have an HK45 and its a great gun. Look at the FNP 45 also, mine is every bit as accurate and very pleasant to shoot. I had a Sig P220 Elite, nice but 8 round capacity in this day is a real disadvantage. </div></div>
P220 is 8+1, w 10 rnd mags for backup or HD. I find the fit to hand, and added conceal-ability of the single stack is a good benefit for me. I feel the stopping power of the .45 compensates for mag capacity to a degree. How many hits with a Defensive load like Win. Ranger T will you need? I had a Para Ord. P14. Grips are huge w a double stack .45. </div></div>

I have large hands and the double stack 45's fit just fine. 9 rounds of .45 may be just fine but it is situational, I just can't see where more available rounds is a disadvantage. YMMV. That said, I would take the HK45 over the P220 all day long. I have a number of Sigs I really like, the P220 just wasn't one of them.

 

[Downzero]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

I'm still wondering what "combat purposes" is.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

You didn't mention budget but I am a huge fan of Les Baer. I own two of his .45s and have been selling all of my other hand guns. Nothing compares to a custom 1911.

 

[dbateman]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

If you don't already have a good 1911 get one you will not be sorry you did .

If you have a good highend 1911 already and you just want to try something different well go and see if you may be able to try them out .

 

[taseal]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

I was all about sigs, and M&Ps

until I got my taurus 1911. Now I carry that thing everywhere I wear pants to and not working

work - M&P 9 full size
off duty/BUG - Keltec PF9 (this thing goes everywhere with me. smallest biggest caliber ratio pistol)
conceal carry - Taurus 1911 (used to be M&P 9c until i got the 1911

so I'm gonna say the 1911

just something about carrying a 1911.

side story - I went on a date saturday and the girl whom I was with put her arm around me and felt the 1911. she said 'that's kinda hot' it was amazing power of the 1911.

 

[wfjames22]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: taseal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">side story - I went on a date saturday and the girl whom I was with put her arm around me and felt the 1911. she said 'that's kinda hot' it was amazing power of the 1911.

</div></div>

I am surprised she didnt rip your pants off and mount up reverse cowboy, right then and there. Thats what usually happens when an unsuspecting female stumbles upon a concealed 1911. They cannot control themselves and who could blame them!

 

[johnsobr]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Damn it! Thats the secret. I only get a BJ when I carry my glock.

 

[coues103]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

i vote h&k .45 all the way ever since i have finally broken down and bought an h&k i dont see myself buying any other hand gun.

 

[chalwie]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Do not get the HK 45 for defense purposes, unless you're keeping it on your nightstand only. It's accurate and reliable, but large. HK 45C is more concealable, but still a full size handgun - would be my choice. Only use 1911 for self defense if you plan to clean and maintain your gun religiously.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David777</div><div class="ubbcode-body">t 8 round capacity in this day is a real disadvantage.</div></div>

Not if you hit what you are aiming at on the first of second shot. Aren't most gun-fights within 7yds? If you spend 8+1 and don't knock it down with a .45 at 7yds, I'd say 12rds aren't going to help. If I recall, the 1911 is 8+1 and pretty much considered a good carry piece. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not hanging around for a gun fight with anyone. I'm going to fire and retreat to cover and call for help. Capacity is highly over-rated in my book, at least for civilians. YMMV

To the OP, there is nothing wrong with a 9mm. The fact of the matter is you have to hit what you aim at. Light isn't bad, but bulky is in a carry piece. If it's too big, you won't carry it. A carry gun is not a range gun, but it can be depending on how big a gun you can conceal and don't mind carrying. As many have posted. Go try a few and get the one you shoot best, caliber aside. You'll probably find you shoot a lightweight gun in 9mm as good as a heavy .45.. now which would you rather carry?

 

[clmayfield]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Capacity is highly over-rated in my book, at least for civilians. YMMV
</div></div>

Definitely for a civilian. I can't imagine a situation where more than 3 - 4 shots are needed. Imagine you are accosted by 3 thugs with baseball bats and knives... by the time you incapacitate the first 2, the third will realize he brought a knife to a gunfight and will be headed the other direction.

If you have 4+ armed guys, gunning them all down is not the answer. Multiple bad guys, with multiple guns drawn? Is the plan to outdraw them all? All the bullets in the world aren't going to help you in that situation.

What will a jury say when you shoot 4 thugs who are wielding pipes? Did all 4 really pose an immediate threat?

So if you manage to use a full magazine in a 1911, you are likely either going to jail or you are dead. Both of those outcomes suck. So what does any more capacity buy you? Insurance for the zombie apocalypse?

 

[razor_blade]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

1911: It is always the best answer, as long as you don't cheap out.

 

[Glock30]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Glock 30 . I have owned and carried it since I bought it in 1997. I have put thousands of rounds through it and have yet to replace anything.

 

[Chieftain]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

All of the guns the OP suggested will work well, if they work for him.

The problem with the 1911, is that he has a lot to learn, and must be able to afford the time and money commitment.

I carry for CCW/EDC a lightly customized LtWgt 21st Century Commander (Wiley Clapp TALO model) and for my service pistol I use a Springfield Professional, also touched up by me. (Cost. With shop costs the Commander is approximately $1700, and the Professional I picked up used about 4 years ago for $2200. Prior to that I used a Colt Gunsite Pistol, government model)

I have been carrying 1911's for business for 45 years, I have 21 of them right now. I also have 2 HK 45's, a HK 45C, S&W M&P 45 etc. Frankly if you don't know how to set up and properly maintain a 1911, you had better be attached at the hip with your very experienced 1911 gunsmith.

If you want a 45acp, HK 45 or the compact, S&W M&P any of the three sizes. 1911 only if you can afford it with both time & money. I got rid of my Glock 30's and 21's almost 10 years ago.

Although a lot of knowledgeable folks disagree with me, I ain't figured out a reason for the 40 yet. If you don't like or can't afford to shoot the 45 go 9mm. I do like my old West German SIG's all in 9mm these days. Got rid of the 220's about 17 years ago.

No really bad choices if you do your job.

Good luck.

Fred

 

[nw911guy]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chieftain</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All of the guns the OP suggested will work well, if they work for him.

The problem with the 1911, is that he has a lot to learn, and must be able to afford the time and money commitment.

I carry for CCW/EDC a lightly customized LtWgt 21st Century Commander (Wiley Clapp TALO model) and for my service pistol I use a Springfield Professional, also touched up by me. (Cost. With shop costs the Commander is approximately $1700, and the Professional I picked up used about 4 years ago for $2200. Prior to that I used a Colt Gunsite Pistol, government model)

I have been carrying 1911's for business for 45 years, I have 21 of them right now. I also have 2 HK 45's, a HK 45C, S&W M&P 45 etc. Frankly if you don't know how to set up and properly maintain a 1911, you had better be attached at the hip with your very experienced 1911 gunsmith.

If you want a 45acp, HK 45 or the compact, S&W M&P any of the three sizes. 1911 only if you can afford it with both time & money. I got rid of my Glock 30's and 21's almost 10 years ago.

Although a lot of knowledgeable folks disagree with me, I ain't figured out a reason for the 40 yet. If you don't like or can't afford to shoot the 45 go 9mm. I do like my old West German SIG's all in 9mm these days. Got rid of the 220's about 17 years ago.

No really bad choices if you do your job.

Good luck.

Fred </div></div>

Well said, especially where the .40 is concerned.

 

[Bad Medicine]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Secret city weaponeers seems like they put together a decent kydex holster.

 

[glockdan78]

Re: HK .45 or Sig sp2022 or 1911

Sig makes some decent guns from time to time, but the 2022/sigpro was never one of them. For the less than a grand combat guns.....glock, M&P(without any of the mag or thumb safeties), HK(lem's) have served me well.