HK MSG90 Clone

[warrenator]

Hello everyone, I have been a member here for over a year but am a noobie and I have mainly been lurking and trying to pick up information on long range shooting. Ofcourse a lot of the stuff you guys say goes way over my head but I am egar to learn. I would like to thank everyone for this wonderful site and for the wealth of knowledge here.
I know semi-auto fans are in a minority here but I am and always have been one. In addition I am a huge HK fan and I recently got a few of my custom builds back from the gun smith. These projects have been years in the making so I can't wait to get some trigger time. I had three 7.62x51/308 cal clones made a HK G3 clone, HKSG1 Clone and an HK MSG90 clone.
I plan on using the MSG90 clone as my primary long range target rifle. As soon as I can save the money I am going to order a 4th Gen SH edition IOR 3-18x42 FFP 35mm scope from Liberty Optics. Anyway here are the details and some photos.

<span style="font-weight: bold">HK MSG90 clone built by IGF:</span>

PTR receiver
US made HK21 cocking handle
US made BMP MSG90/PSG1 trunnion
24" Douglas xxx air gauged barrel cut to MSG90 profile
jdowney US made PSG1 grip (these are very nice!!)
T profile receiver reinforcing rails
weld on ejection port buffer
JFK made weld on receiver rail
JFK made MSG90 cocking tube and front sight
Magpul PRS2 stock with extended butt pad and Hk heavy buffer
PTR hammer, sear, trigger: Williams Trigger Specialites SG1 set trigger with 4 to 4.5 pounds of pull on semi auto and 2 to 2.5 pounds of pull on set trigger
Cliped and pined trigger housing
paddle mag release
HK PSG1/MSG90 forearm
Harris Bipod
Fabian brothers muzzle brake
New FMP bolt, bolt carrier, grip frame and FCG
HK 1200m rear sight

This rifle is really nice I can't wait to shoot it. I hope that I will be able to buy a scope for it this spring and hit the range.

Here is a link to the build thread: http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=2618

 

[TehLefty]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

That is amazing..just, awesome.

Let us know how she shoots.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

How much are you into that? looks good, I'd be very interested to see how it performs.

 

[sagebrush]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

I a soft spot for these roller-lockers.

gorgeous rifle man!

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

man I love H&K's as they will keep on rocking but they are hell on brass. I got rid of my H&K 93 because of the fluting and dents on the brass. The Germans sure make a good and violent extraction but...not so much if you reload.

 

[hgr2]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Looks like it has some great iron sights, go to the range man!!

 

[cubewarrior]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Be very careful on your scope choice--anything longer than 13.5in, and you'll run into your charging handle. IOR meets the length, but you may have problems mounting the scope far enough rearward to clear the charging handle due to rear ocular clearance for a ring.

Great HKs.

 

[warrenator]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much are you into that? looks good, I'd be very interested to see how it performs. </div></div>

Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions guys! As far as cost nothing HK is cheap. I just did a rough calculation and I have approximately $2900 in parts and $1600 in build cost in this rifle for a total of $4500. Then you add to that the cost of the scope I want (another $1550) for a grand total of $6050. Wow I knew I didn't want to add that up. I will have to make sure the wife doesn't read this post or I will be sleeping on the couch for sure.

 

[jerseymike]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

wow! nice build, ive been always wanting to put together a PSG1 or MSG. This makes me want to do it even more.

 

[NYSharpShooter]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Ever since firing and handling my buddy's SR-9(T) I've wanted to own the same or an MSG90/PSG-1 clone. Why, oh why does HK have to be so expensive?? Gorgeous rifle, brother, shoot it well.

 

[81sfo]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Very Nice rifle!!

 

[Goot]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

I love your rifle!

I have sold just about my entire gun collection. Next up, one of the hardest to come off of... my HK SR9 with MSG90 Stock, PSG-1 trigger group/grip, etc.

 

[marduk185]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

isnt msg something in bad chinese food? anyhow basically hk anything sucks imho. i wouldnt buy one for any serious purposes other than possibly collector item since every one ive come across was garbage compared to other makes in their class. for a serious battle rifle look at dsa FAL or springfield m1a.

 

[sagebrush]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

My DSA FAL still wont run reliably after 2 returns to the factory where they fixed/replaced several parts. On the other hand my original German HK91 is the only semi auto .308 I've owned that just wont choke on any ammo. I can honestly say I've never had a single stoppage of any kind and I've had it since 1989. it would be the one rifle I'd rely on in a post apocalyptic scenario. and it happens to shoot 3/4 minute with factory ammo. HK has not sucked for me.

 

[marduk185]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

i gotta wasr 10 thatll feed reliably too sage but it dont make it on par with a m1a. 3/4 minute. id hang on to that one cuz i aint seen a hk thatll do an honest 2moa. again everyones experience will vary.

 

[warrenator]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">isnt msg something in bad chinese food? anyhow basically hk anything sucks imho. i wouldnt buy one for any serious purposes other than possibly collector item since every one ive come across was garbage compared to other makes in their class. for a serious battle rifle look at dsa FAL or springfield m1a. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i gotta wasr 10 thatll feed reliably too sage but it dont make it on par with a m1a. 3/4 minute. id hang on to that one cuz i aint seen a hk thatll do an honest 2moa. again everyones experience will vary. </div></div>

I didn't mean to stir anything up we all have our own favorites when it comes to rifles and I say to each their own.
I am not trying to say that my rifle is better than anyones and I am sure that I can't shoot as well as about 95% of the members here.

I will post a quote from a member on HKpro.com that knows alot more than I do about the accuracy of these rifles. This quote refers to factory HKs mine is only a clone and it has the disadvantage of having me behind the trigger but I hope that I might be able to get close to these results some day.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G3Kurz;866300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The accuracy potential of the PSG1 and MSG90/90A1 is 85% dependent on the ammo used. HK maintains internal use only "Technical Terms of Delivery" (TTD) documents on all its products. These specs sometimes get released as minimum standards but actually they represent what all guns (100%) in a lot must pass and far exceeed what can be expected in actual use. I never recall as single HK of any type not smoking the minimum TDD specs, not one in 20+ years on the job. From personal experience I would return any new PSG1 or MSG90 that could not fire sub-MOA groups with an appropriate match round, like the Federal 308M Gold Medal match round, the Winchester Ranger or Hornady or Black Hills eqivilents. HK GmbH generally shoots the heavier and more readily available European 175 grain and greater rounds like those from RUAG, Dynamit Nobel or the like. My personal PSG1 demo gun at HK for almost 20 years could easily fire .5" and even better groups at 100 meters. My best 5-shot group with that rifle at 100 meters with 308M was .34" and it has easily 7500 rounds through the barrel, likely many more as I rec'd it used.

Keep the bore clean with strong solvents that remove jacket fouling as the unique tappered hammer forged barrel/bore design in these rifles can cause increased chamber/case pressures which can be problematic with soft commercial cases often used in non-MIL SPEC ammo and can cause ejection failures (caused by case set back) and even excessive bore pressure occurances.

Wish I could be more specific and provide detailed data. But ammo is the biggest factor in accuracy after operator proficiency and conditions.

G3Kurz</div></div>

 

[marduk185]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

you know perhaps my comments were a bit unfair. my experience is lacking in that ive never used an actual psg or msg just standard g-3. i have come across a few other clones that werent bonofide hk. so perhaps i owe one of these another look based on the HK love im hearing here however, i have used several genuine hk mp5's that i felt were junk and for the money id still bet m1a is way ahead in weight, ergonomics, and inherent accuracy.

 

[PerG]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Hi all. Just came across this site as I was looking for an HK MSG 90. Actually wanted to buy one for hunting but looks as it´s only for law enforcement and military use only

.
But as for HK rifles, then had a G3 myself in the army here in europe. Fairly accurate riffle and was quite reliable. Was therefor looking for an HK for hunting and the MSG seemed nice. As far as I can see, the clones are fairly expensive as well. Would it not be cheaper to buy for example a luxdeftec HSG 1 and maybe alter it a bit? Over here, it cost 3500 euros. It´s a bit under 5000$. Looks quite a bit like the PSG1. Would have attached a picture but not sure how yet.
Still a but high in the price range. I might end up getting another Heckler & Koch HK MR308 instead. They are a bit cheaper approx 2600 euro/3700$.

How well did your riffle perform at the range??

 

[black_ump]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

i find it vary vary funny that every one can bash the hk sniper rifles because of their experiances with g3 style rifles which are completely night and day from each other, even a clone doesnt come close, their are so many small details that make up a huge diffrance.

if you shot a hk 91 clone and it sucked its the makers fault, untill you shoot a factory gun, you cant say that hk rifles and or pistols are junk... just my .02

 

[mdmp5]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you know perhaps my comments were a bit unfair. my experience is lacking in that ive never used an actual psg or msg just standard g-3. i have come across a few other clones that werent bonofide hk. so perhaps i owe one of these another look based on the HK love im hearing here however, i have used several genuine hk mp5's that i felt were junk and for the money id still bet m1a is way ahead in weight, ergonomics, and inherent accuracy.</div></div>

For $1100, an MP5 is awesome; for $20k, the MP5 is indeed a piece of junk for the money. It is all relative.

 

[beenjammin]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

I was also bitten back in 2001 by the psg1 and msg90a1 clone bug. I ended up selling them off and going with an AIAW. The rifles absolutely shread brass. The do look good though.

 

[cubewarrior]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

I'm trying to figure out how to make my SR9T close-in on acceptable accuracy. My gut tells me that the gun is capable of very good accuracy due to that polygonal barrel, but it requires a lot of $$ and experimentation to get the right set-up. The ergonomics are a bitch--

--MSG-90 stock--too short, $$$ for a replacement
--S&B 3-12 barely fits--tough to get a good scope in the limited real-estate between the charging handle and the rear
--Mounting solutions suck--still experimenting there before getting a rail welded
--Trying to get a rail system up front to replace the foam handguard so that I can mount an Atlas
--PSG-1 trigger is good, but it aint a Geisselle

Comparatively, you can start grouping really easily with any of the AR-based 308 platforms. I'm in Beenjammin's camp--my AE 308 is still the most accurate of the bunch, and the easiest to shoot well.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Pretty good video of the accuracy of stock military G3. To say they are junk may be hasty.
http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/279486

 

[black_ump]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

for 20 grand their are not many guns worth 20 grand if i had to spend 20k on a gun their is nothing that i can think of that would out shoot a 408 cheytech, but for what i plan on useing the gun for id say an msg90 clone is mint

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Full auto stuff is expensive....
You are not paying for the gun, you are paying for the "privilege" to have it.

 

[superjc]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Well that's just great, now I want to sell one of my M1A's and my PTR-91 and get in to an MSG90 clone. Great looking rifle! That 24" barrel should set that thing worlds apart from any 91 or clone.

 

[black_ump]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

this is true

 

[deersniper]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Full auto stuff is expensive....
You are not paying for the gun, you are paying for the "privilege" to have it. </div></div>

Actually you are paying what the market will bear because there are alot more people that want MGs than there are transferable MGs around.

A M16 should costs >$1000 but they are 15-20K.

The manufacture of new MGs for civi use was banned in 1986. Low supply + high demand = high prices.

-dan

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

I'm sorry I figured that was what I said. That is what I meant. You are not paying for the gun "A M16 should costs >$1000" you are paying for the privilege "but they are 15-20K" of having one.

 

[black_ump]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

personally its bullshit a g36 cost 2k tops for every one but civillians, if u want a semi auto g36 clone its like 4k... go get fucked

 

[deersniper]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

s <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">personally its bullshit a g36 cost 2k tops for every one but civillians, if u want a semi auto g36 clone its like 4k... go get fucked </div></div>

Just like the SCAR. Was designed to be cheaper than a M4 whick is probaly why it is made out of plastic. But they are $3K in the store. F that.

Mechanic, I was trying to clarify for ppl who may not know why mgs are so expensive. I understood what you meant.

-dan

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

No problem. I must be having a bad day out here. 65 degrees out, I am freezing cold....

 

[black_ump]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

i dont get it honestly..... why is it cheeper for le/mil but double for you and me, when we the public out number le/mil x's 10 i really dont get how companies can survive like that

take an msg90.... i bet its true cost with a profit is like 3 maybe 4 k tops but for a parts kit on gunbroker 2 weeks ago one kit was going for 65oo bucks.... i dont get it....

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

big brother don't want you to have one...

 

[black_ump]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

why ? what did i ever do to him ?

 

[marduk185]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

big brother is under the mistaken notion that he can opress a public armed what is considered inferior armaments. fortunately the money horder power bosses dont understand that it aint the tool but the operator that makes a damn, or that not all the handy shooters join the army. (not to mention full auto is just wasting ammo and barrel life)shhhh...let em think that.

 

[black_ump]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

hmmm but from what i have seen on youtub full auto seems to be a vary good tool to suppress some ones movements while others work around that target... and its cool sounding......

forgive me for being dumb on this subject

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

full auto on a .308 is not controllable. Just rip out about 3 fast rounds and just see if you can stay on target. Just won't happen.

 

[black_ump]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

i hear ya ...... oh well

 

[harlikwin]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

My MSG-90a1 clone shoots like .5-.75 MOA on a good day with Fed GMM.

 

[ssgp2]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">full auto on a .308 is not controllable. Just rip out about 3 fast rounds and just see if you can stay on target. Just won't happen. </div></div>

I agree on a G3, M14, or FAL.

But an HK51 is controllable.

I'll concede that you don;t have the "full" 308 in a 51, but it will shoot that cartridge under control.

 

[harlikwin]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssgp2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">full auto on a .308 is not controllable. Just rip out about 3 fast rounds and just see if you can stay on target. Just won't happen. </div></div>

I agree on a G3, M14, or FAL.

But an HK51 is controllable.

I'll concede that you don;t have the "full" 308 in a 51, but it will shoot that cartridge under control. </div></div>

I'd say the G3 is the most controlable 308 out of the 3.

 

[ssgp2]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

I never shot the 308 in a full auto AR plateform, but i looks like fun...

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fSO5h0dF8l8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fSO5h0dF8l8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ssgp2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never shot the 308 in a full auto AR plateform, but i looks like fun...

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fSO5h0dF8l8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fSO5h0dF8l8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object></div></div>
At least he was able to hit the ground and that 30 foot embankment from 20 feet away. Not bad.

 

[Chiller]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

moved per request.

 

[BiggerStick47]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

Wow, you guys did a great job highjacking his thread. Nice rifle OP. Let us know how it shoots.

 

[warrenator]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

I recently purchased one of the 3-18x42 rebuilt IOR Snipers Hide scopes from Liberty Optics. I had some difficulty finding the correct mounting solution and Scott helped me. Hopefully it will work because I really want to keep the 1200 meter rear sights on the rifle. If it does not work I will probably remove the rear sight.

On 11/13/10 I took my HK MSG90 clone into JB at Accuflite, east of Pittsburgh. He is going to mount and sight in my IOR 3-18x42 FFP scope, break in the Douglas barrel and preform an accuracy test.

I realize most of you guys would just do that stuff yourselves but I am new to this and as much money as I have in the rifle and the scope I want it set up right and the barrel broke in properly. I will update with photos and results of the accuracy test when I get the rifle back.

 

[ORD]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Great 308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On 11/13/10 I took my HK MSG90 clone into JB at Accuflite, east of Pittsburgh. He is going to mount and sight in my IOR 3-18x42 FFP scope, break in the Douglas barrel and preform an accuracy test.

I realize most of you guys would just do that stuff yourselves but I am new to this and as much money as I have in the rifle and the scope I want it set up right and the barrel broke in properly. I will update with photos and results of the accuracy test when I get the rifle back.
</div></div>

Good GRIEF!!! Next time you need someone to mount a scope, break in a rifle and accuracy test it for you, I bet I could give you a better price than JB!!!

Out of curiosity, what did you decide to do about mounting the scope? I assume you had to search high and low for 35mm ultra high rings mounted directly to your rail to get the scope up high enough to clear the 1200M sight (or high rings with a riser)?

 

[warrenator]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good GRIEF!!! Next time you need someone to mount a scope, break in a rifle and accuracy test it for you, I bet I could give you a better price than JB!!!

Out of curiosity, what did you decide to do about mounting the scope? I assume you had to search high and low for 35mm ultra high rings mounted directly to your rail to get the scope up high enough to clear the 1200M sight (or high rings with a riser)? </div></div>

Well what I am trying is a little goofy and you guys will probably kick me off the borad for trying it.

I started out buying an A.R.M.S #63 Quick Detach Dual Throw Lever Riser Mount. My original thought was this mount would work well since it is about 3/4" tall with a channel for use with iron sights. I thought I could then see what height of rings I would need to clear the rear sight.

The problem that I ran into was the short rear secton of tube on the IOR scope does not allow the scope to be moved farther back in the rings. Also I probably should have had my rail welded on right in front of the rear sight mount. It could have been welded on approximately one inch farther reaward. These two things combined mean that I can not get the scope far enough to the rear for proper eye relief and to clear the charging handle.

To remedy the situation Scott recomended using an AD-RECON mount. I tried it alone and it is not high enough to clear the rear sight. So here is the really goofy part I am trying the AD-RECON on top of the A.R.M.S #63 mount.

Ok I know this is not the correct solution but I don't know what else to do short of sending the rifle to a smith to have a new rail welded on farther to the rear. If anyone knows of a taller mount that is offset like the AD-RECON or has other suggestions please let me know.

If I was having another MSG90 clone made I would have the cocking tube modified so that the cocking handle locked in at approximately the nine o-clock position. Also I would have had the scope tab on top of the receiver in front of the rear sight removed so that the rail could be welded as far back as possible. I think with a tall rail which I have seen for the HK the ARMs #63 mount with high rings would then work.

 

[ORD]

Re: HK MSG90 Clone

WOW!! That sounds like a real PITA!! Good luck (and be sure to post up some pics of the "final product").