Hoarding Rant

T

Tactical

Gunny Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 15, 2001
1,547
7
Calif
www.tacticalintervention.com
#1
Well, the hoarders have snatched up all the Varget and 210M primers so the US F TR Team is attempting to scrape by for this years matches, so it brings up a rant.

Really you need to buy every primer and all the Varget in the USA? You need to make a 10,000 percent profit on every firearm part and all ammo in the USA?

This needs to happen every few years

How about standing up and saying I am a gun owner, not a nut and want the real problems addressed not legislation that makes folks feel safe while doing nothing to actually make them safe
 
#3
Re: Hoarding Rant

How about a counter-rant - who the hell finds themselves surprised by a shortage of primer and powders, consider what we've all observed in the past four years?

</snark>

In all seriousness, I'm sorry that your team finds yourself in this position.
 
#5
Re: Hoarding Rant

The frenzy sucks but everyone should have been well stocked way before now. The same shit happened in 2008 before obuma got in...

I have 200 of the Fed 210 and 1K of the CCI 200s, if that would help your team out, let me know.
 
#7
Re: Hoarding Rant

I use this phrase fairly often:

"Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

.
Just sayin, if you know you need things..plan ahead. IF you were closer I'd help ya out with some 210m's. Rarely use them anymore since I use mainly Winchesters anymore have a few left. (An no that doesnt mean several 1000)
 
#8
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
How about standing up and saying I am a gun owner, not<span style="font-weight: bold"> a nut and want the real problems addressed not legislation that makes folks feel safe while doing nothing to actually make them safe</span>
</div></div>

Not looking to start a pissing contest Mike but with the quote in bold just what side are you argueing for?? To suggest that ONLY gun owners are "a nut" and are the real cause of component shortages is a bit unfair? I must ask, Why do you suppose there is a Varget and primer shortage? WHO caused the 'panic buying'? Surely not the talk of taxing components/ammunition, limiting purchase quantities, registering and all that horse shit by someone in Congress or the media is not to blame is it?????

I am sure if there was mention of a 50% tax, quantity limits on food, gasoline, cigarettes, alcohol, medicinal pot etc in CA there would be NO panic buying or hoarding would there???? Just asking as your "Hoarding Rant" seems to depict the very individuals you make your living off of as being "a nut" and not entitled to make decisions about what they feel they will need or should purchase in sufficient quantities so THEY AREN'T SETTING WHERE THE US F TR TEAM is right now!!!!!

There now my rant is over and I feel better. Can't believe a shooting team only buys enough supplies for a match or two. I have no issues with admitting I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer but think if a shooting team had a lot of powder that shot well enough to meet their needs they might buy enough for a couple yrs and when low start finding another lot that would work vs waiting until the last kernels fell from the jug and then start looking?? Think hoarding next year.lol

Also may I suggest the next time you have tea with Diane you discuss this issue?

Sorry, couldn't help myself Mike! Have a great day in CA.

Edit to add....WOW all the responses while I was typing!!!!

Respectfully,
Dennis
PS-I just bought 3#, figure out a way for me to get it to you that won't break the bank and I will donate it!!!!! Edit to add...will send primers too, what kind and how do I get them there???
 
#9
Re: Hoarding Rant

I see things a little different. This buying frenzy sends a loud and clear message to the real nuts (your characterization of the so called hoarders is pitiful) who put all of us in this situation. They can't be reasoned with and shame on you for thinking otherwise. You're in the position you are in exactly because you think the way you do. I have little sympathy for your situation because this board is full of people like you that think people who see the situation much more clearly than you, are the problem. Guess what? Your complacency and apathy are to blame. None of this stuff effects my interests. Oh shit now it does..waaaaaaa!

I hope the current state of affairs effects enough people that it motivates some immediate backlash (other than bitching and whining about other gun owners/shooters) and the need for instilling vigilance in the next generation.
 
#10
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing become clear whenever shit like this happens; gunowners will eat their own. </div></div>

Yeah no joke
 
#11
Re: Hoarding Rant

I was in Academy Sports today and they have a limit one (1) box policy for 40S&W, 45ACP, 9mm, 223rem, and 308win. And, you can buy a max of three (3) TOTAL boxes of any of the above, in the aggregate. I heard the guy behind the counter saying that there were people lined up at the door this morning before opening (ammo shipment today). Everything they unloaded (in the above calibers) was gone in minutes. They keep the above at customer service, not on the ammunition shelves and the shelves were full, except for the above. I overheard the manager saying that they put the restrictions in place because people were buying them out then flipping the ammo at gun shows.

I was there for 30 carbine so I bought what I needed. They still had a full shelf of Hornady steel match 30 carbine when I left.
 
#12
Re: Hoarding Rant

Stop living in CA and you'll find all the powder and primers you want.

I just picked up 8 pounds of Varget and R15. No R17 this week
frown.gif
 
#13
Re: Hoarding Rant

Well if the US F T/R team doesn't know the 5 P's(PRIOR PLANNING PREVENTS POOR PERFORMANCE) ... guess someone is behind the learning curve ! Some of us remember the crap back when Klinton was POTUS,(Talk of tagents in powder, limited shelf life primers) went so far as to mess with the archery community. A normal order for Easton shafts (say 6 -12 dz) direct from Easton (If you weren't a distributor) might be 12-18 days out ... turned into 6 months on the good side to being canceled as they were working to fill major orders and you just got left out.
Me ... I bought loads of golfballs & marbles and a 250 ft of surgical tubing. Go ahead make that stuff illegal.
 
#15
Re: Hoarding Rant

A lot of supplies at my local stores and the prices are still decent. I've been enthusiastically hording since 2008 but haven't bought anything in the last two or so months because the small gun shop's shelves are still stocked pretty well around here. Must be a regional thing?
 
#16
Re: Hoarding Rant

Mike,
As a competitive shooter myself, I cannot understand how the Vice-Capt. of the US FTR Team can find himself and his team mates short of reloading supplies. One of the first things I was taught was to be at least 2 years in advance with my reloading needs. Small shortages used to occur all to often, granted they were usually limited to a certain primer or bullet type. The hand writing has been on the walls for a while now. I could shoot for 5 years at my present level and not be short supplies. Buy cheap and buy in the largest quantity you can possibly afford. We pay tons of money for our gear, travel, and goodies but so often I see guys buy ammo supplies in the most minimal quantities because it ties up cash.
 
#17
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HD1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing become clear whenever shit like this happens; gunowners will eat their own. </div></div>

Yeah no joke </div></div>

Dont' just bitch about it. Be the change you want to see.

Two days ago I gave up the last M&P15-22 that I had in my hands to a guy who had been in the shop that morning and had brought his wife back to buy it for her.

Today, I happened upon 2 100 rd boxes of WWB 45acp at our local WM (have been outta stock for weeks). The older gentleman next to me at the counter said, "Aww man! Looks like you got the last two boxes." When I insisted that he take one of them, he realized that it was not 9mm, and I ended up with both anyway.

So, we're not ALL like that. Have a nice day.
 
#18
Re: Hoarding Rant

I doubt a single person here knows exactly how much ammunition the US FTR team goes through or exactly how much they're able to budget, yet plenty of people willing to comment as to their own self preparedness and how smart they think they are for it...
 
#19
Re: Hoarding Rant

You call it hoarding, I call it being prepared.

Never again will I have less than my stocking quantities of primers and powder. And while I have alternatives on the shelf, I am dangerously low on Varget myself.

Primer shortages are a given because they are a bitch to increase capacity. The ammo companies are responding with expansions, but these shortages are an inevitable part of having so many different cartridges and products available.

If you find a product you like, stock up!
 
#22
Re: Hoarding Rant

I got caught in the past and almost didn't make it through so I said never again. Every time I get to town I would buy primers and some sort of powder, long before this latest drought I was pretty well set.

The only snag I've had so far is finding 458 Win Mag Brass (didn't know those were used in assault rifles).

Anyway I'll survive this drought, and keep stocking for the next one.

An old mentor told me when I first started shooting high power in the mid 70s, "always keep a healthy supply of primers" they'll be the hardest to get when times get bad".

This latest drought got me into black powder when I was searching for 458 brass and seen all the "out of stock" notices. I bought an in-line ML and have been having a blast. Also helps me to get rid of some of my 30 year old plus shotgun primers.

Call me a horder if you wish, I call it being prepared. We knew this drought was coming, it wont last forever, but you can be assured it wont be the last one.
 
#23
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt a single person here knows exactly how much ammunition the US FTR team goes through or exactly how much they're able to budget, yet plenty of people willing to comment as to their own self preparedness and how smart they think they are for it... </div></div>

You're absolutely right. I don't have a clue. However, I do know blaming other people and whining about it are getting as old as all the finger wagging of the mother hen patrol these days. Buy or don't buy, but please shut up with all the whining about it.
 
#24
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: patsim</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HD1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing becomes clear whenever shit like this happens; gunowners will eat their own. </div></div>

Yeah no joke </div></div>

Dont' just bitch about it. Be the change you want to see.

Two days ago I gave up the last M&P15-22 that I had in my hands to a guy who had been in the shop that morning and had brought his wife back to buy it for her.

Today, I happened upon 2 100 rd boxes of WWB 45acp at our local WM (have been outta stock for weeks). The older gentleman next to me at the counter said, "Aww man! Looks like you got the last two boxes." When I insisted that he take one of them, he realized that it was not 9mm, and I ended up with both anyway.

<span style="font-weight: bold">So, we're not ALL like that</span>. Have a nice day. </div></div>

Certainly not. But there is a difference between being prepared and buying Pmags by the case only to sell them for 50+ per. Not everyone has the ability to stock up a shit ton of gear be it financial or logistical. But really, oft times we are our own worst enemy.

I did the same thing as you back in 08. Bought the last 6 boxes of mini-mags and as I walked out an older guy sighed that he missed out <span style="font-style: italic">again</span>. I reached in my bag and handed him two boxes then walked away.


<span style="font-weight: bold"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

We knew this drought was coming, it wont last forever, but you can be assured it wont be the last one. </div></div></span>

So true.



 
#25
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Richard II</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you think this is hoarding just wait until inflation hits and food shortages hit. Hope you learned your lesson...people will hoard when threatened. </div></div>

Don't forget the Zombies and North Koreans! The Mayan threat has passed, so you're safe there... for now...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're absolutely right. I don't have a clue. However, I do know blaming other people and whining about it are getting as old as all the finger wagging of the mother hen patrol these days. Buy or don't buy, but please shut up with all the whining about it. </div></div>

Wasn't aimed at you as much as everyone else questioning his preparedness, but I'll bite... Yet you have no issue whining about the whining? Lol...
 
#26
Re: Hoarding Rant

I feel for you I do. I can't say I haven't felt a bit cheated by good old boys, that need to feed their deer rifle. Who have been seen buying enough components to last their personal needs, into the next millenium. That was happening an awful lot in 2008. I have begun to see through personal aquaintance and local travel, that what happened in 08 is not what we are seeing now.
I am a competitor and a match director. I have bought what I would need then a bit extra so that I could survive what is going on now and continue to shoot matches. I have seen this coming since 1993, that may be an advantage I have over you. If you remember 1993 then I can only assume you have sat around and scoffed at how "it won't affect you". They have been talking AWB and ammo crackdowns since before 2008, but some folks ignored it thinking it wouldn't affect them. The sooner ALL FUCKING gun owners realize we are ALL joined at the hip, the better off we are ALL going to be. I am still worried that I will not be able to run all my matches this year. I can tell you this. There are more people shooting and seeking out action/tactical style shooting than I have ever seen. Seeing a lot of brand new shooters, that equals ammo sold that was never sold before..a NEW consumer. I have 2 daughters and a wife that have a "renewed" interest in learning everything I can teach them...ASAP.
Are we to believe that your shooting is more important? I would send you some Varget and some Wolf primers but my family comes first. Pretty sure you don't need any practice.
People aren't hoarding as much as we think. If they are it can't go on forever. Be smart, save your money, buy when it eases up.
If you don't shoot as many matches this year it won't be the end of the world, unless you think you are the most important shooter in the country.
 
#27
Re: Hoarding Rant

Just put your Varget on back order and it will come in a few weeks. My order (2 jugs) from Jan 6th shipped Friday. Haven't seen anything on the primers I ordered a week and ahalf ago but I'm pretty sure they'll get here before the ones I have run out. (I hope they do anyway, I don't have enough for the season)
 
#28
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just put your Varget on back order and it will come in a few weeks. My order (2 jugs) from Jan 6th shipped Friday. Haven't seen anything on the primers I ordered a week and ahalf ago but I'm pretty sure they'll get here before the ones I have run out. (I hope they do anyway, I don't have enough for the season) </div></div>

Seriously? Who did YOU order yours through?

I put in an order weeks ago with Midsouth and haven't heard a word.

I did, however, get the 208 grain A-max .308 bullets I backordered around January 14th through MidwayUSA a couple days ago. They said it would be April or MAY.
 
#30
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: normbal</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just put your Varget on back order and it will come in a few weeks. My order (2 jugs) from Jan 6th shipped Friday. Haven't seen anything on the primers I ordered a week and ahalf ago but I'm pretty sure they'll get here before the ones I have run out. (I hope they do anyway, I don't have enough for the season) </div></div>

Seriously? Who did YOU order yours through?

I put in an order weeks ago with Midsouth and haven't heard a word.

I did, however, get the 208 grain A-max .308 bullets I backordered around January 14th through MidwayUSA a couple days ago. They said it would be April or MAY. </div></div>

Ordered my Varget for the year December 28th from Midway and it was mailed Thursday. I would expect the US Palma team to have large amounts of the same lot # on hand but I am admittedly ignorant on that and just assuming. The hoarding is on everything. I am a rimfire instructor for our high/middle school shooting teams and it took me several days and several hours on the phone to find enough Federal 711B for practice and comps. I had to pick up some from AZ, MT and PA and found all of it in small shops willing to mail.
 
#31
Re: Hoarding Rant

Powder Valley

I hit an "oh shit" moment last yr just before the F class nationals when I had to beg/borrow and scrape for enough 185 Bergers. I've got bullets and powder covered, primers on the other hand I won't make it past June if I don't find some more.
 
#32
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Powder Valley </div></div>

I didn't know you could back-order through them. They had some 1# jugs the other day, but I figured I'd wait for the 8# jugs to come in. If they take back-orders then it probably would be best to call and do that rather than watching the website. Thanks for the heads up...
 
#33
Re: Hoarding Rant

It does suck but it is what it is and it will not be the last time it will happen. I do not compete in matches therefor i do not need large volumes of supplies for my varmint hunting needs. It will all blow over but it is going to take awhile. This has been about the longest hoarding session i have seen. I did however go to a place here where i live out in the country and was able to pick up 500 105 amax bullets and some rimfire ammo at normal prices. He also had tons of powder still available but the primers he had were all pistol primers.
 
#34
Re: Hoarding Rant

I never said gun owners are nuts. A lot of dummies think we are nuts and that's why they want legislation to feel safe not be safe. Any of you that put me in a category of less than prepared are behind on learning curve.

As to my planning. Guys I bet I have more stock than most of you on hand but the Team is going to shoot Bergers and Varget in World Championships (Team sponsors). All same load for team events. I shoot Lapua bullets, Lapua Brass and Vit powders for all my events. My rant was because we could not find Varget of same lot for the Team events. You see we will have to wait months because of the sudden hoarding and that takes time away from using same stuff all year for all members during all matches leading up to World Championships

As to team not being prepared, we are forced by sponsors to make new deals every year at Shot. Now you plan on 22 shooters shooting 6000 plus rounds a year and see how much supplies you need before getting on high horse.

I shoot about 6,000 precision rifle rounds a year so I do need to constantly resupply. Not to mention the 5.56 and 6.8 blasting ammo I don't track but is a higher number
 
#35
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I doubt a single person here knows exactly how much ammunition the US FTR team goes through or exactly how much they're able to budget, yet plenty of people willing to comment as to their own self preparedness and how smart they think they are for it... </div></div>

You're absolutely right. I don't have a clue. However, I do know blaming other people and whining about it are getting as old as all the finger wagging of the mother hen patrol these days. Buy or don't buy, but please shut up with all the whining about it. </div></div>

....
 
#36
Re: Hoarding Rant

I don't believe that shooters caused the feeding frenzy.

I believe it was closet lib's who finally woke up, and are now in panic mode. We can point fingers all we want, but at the end of the day we better be standing shoulder to shoulder knowing each other, long before we have to go back to back.

I don't care what any of you think but "Tactical" is about as good as it gets any time anywhere, and most especially when lead starts flying.
 
#37
Re: Hoarding Rant

Mike,
I know what your trying to say. I had a guy bitching because he only bought 20,000 primers and when he went back to get more they were gone!!

I asked him if he had a couple of thousand rounds of brass and 20,000 bullets and 4 or 500lbs of powder to go with the primers. When he said well "NO" I said then why the hell do you need 20,000 + primers???
 
#38
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now you plan on 22 shooters shooting 6000 plus rounds a year and see how much supplies you need before getting on high horse.</div></div>

Been there, done that, only a heck of a lot more ammo to go to a heck of a lot more shooters. Only I had to plan 2 years out, without knowing what the Army would give the Guard.

Even when the Army cut our ammo I managed by using State Funds to buy reloading supplies. (The Army regs forbid reloading, or did back then, but there's ways around ever Reg.)

It ain't easy but I managed for about 10 years without a hitch. Must have done OK, the NGB MTU sent me to Little Rock to help write the NG Marksmanship Ammo policy.

However, just because one isn't on a team, or doesn't have to provide logistics for a team, doesn't mean he also doesn't have shooting and ammo needs that he need to prepare for.
 
#39
Re: Hoarding Rant

Buying for your own use = Fine.

Buying with the sole intent of reselling it 5 minutes later = You need to be beaten with a spiked bat, in public.

I've bought ALOT of stuff over the last 2 months. All at normal prices (refuse to give into the bullshit). I have zero intention of selling ANY of it.
 
#40
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Been there, done that, only a heck of a lot more ammo to go to a heck of a lot more shooters. Only I had to plan 2 years out, without knowing what the Army would give the Guard.</div></div>

That must have been quite the feat using muskets and having to send requests by riders... lol...
grin.gif
 
#41
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">having to send requests by riders</div></div>

Hey........I know how to sell budgets.......I had pigeons.
 
#42
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">having to send requests by riders</div></div>

Hey........I know how to sell budgets.......I had pigeons. </div></div>

Mmmmm... squab...
 
#43
Re: Hoarding Rant

I still have .223 I bought 15 years ago (South African PMP)...wonderful stuff and bought thousands of rounds when it was $100/1,000. Same with Radnor and Austrian stuff in .308 when Century had it for $110/1,000...not hoarding, buying when the price was good.

For reloading, last year I bought 50,000 primers when they were on sale...also, not hoarding...buying at the right time. .223 projectiles for $28/1,000 makes it easy to buy 20,000 of them painlessly.

Oh well, the time to buy is when prices are low and supplies are high.
 
#44
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Veer_G ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Closet libs? </div></div>
Yes, because the guy that bought the last one I sold, had no clue as how anything on it worked, and also thought it was full auto as well.
 
#45
Re: Hoarding Rant

You're whining on the internet, to gun owners, that you're running low on components for your bolt gun games. If I'd seen thread after thread (or any thread at all) of you bitching about what regular citizens have been putting up with in CA for decades, I'd feel a little sorry for you. Now that it affects YOUR hobby/game it's worthy of complaining about and it's time to take a stand. I see.

I respect Gunfighter's opinion and will stfu, but seriously quit whining about your ability to play games when the core of the 2nd Amend is being hacked at daily.
 
#46
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're whining on the internet, to gun owners, that you're running low on components for your bolt gun games. If I'd seen thread after thread (or any thread at all) of you bitching about what regular citizens have been putting up with in CA for decades, I'd feel a little sorry for you. Now that it affects YOUR hobby/game it's worthy of complaining about and it's time to take a stand. I see.

I respect Gunfighter's opinion and will stfu, but seriously quit whining about your ability to play games when the core of the 2nd Amend is being hacked at daily. </div></div>

Look you have no idea. I have been fighting gun laws in ca and country for decades. I went on NRA commercial when this crap started in Ca and said how dumb it was. That made me less than popular with my Chief of Police. I would do it again in a heart beat. That was first ban. I have fought doj on issues and won. I just don't post about them. I fought for constitution all over. Shooting games are new, skills where obtained through the need.

On budgets. Nice when you have one. We just have sponsors we have to
I don't post too much anymore because I have other things that take my time.
 
#47
Re: Hoarding Rant

I'm glad to hear that. Keep fighting! I apologize for the hostility in my post but your post just happened to be the one that got under my skin and it smacked just a little too much like someone missing the direness of our situation these days. I'm wrong.
 
#49
Re: Hoarding Rant

I'm with Mike ^ on this. I fought California's BOTCHED UP laws when my Uzi was taken in question(it was a model B, nothing special except it was brand new, NIB, never used).
California LE Organizations screwed thousands of people with the original ban. They had so many responses to register firearms that every organization from the northern border to the southern border USED COPIES WITH THE SAME ID NUMBER by the hundreds. Mine was one of those. It took three months to get my carbine returned from local PD, and when I got it back, I found it was no longer NIB, UNUSED, or in NEW CONDITION. They shot the fuck out of it to the point that there was brass dust filling the entire bolt carrier, chamber, and the lead/copper fouling in the barrel was three days worth of cleaning.
A complaint got my wife harassed by the cops in question while I was away, and it took my mother's current bo(the Chief) to get the fuckers to lay off and leave us alone.
Right now, and for years, California has had a very well armed group of criminals who may not even know they are criminals, thousands of them.
My fucked up Uzi? I traded it straight for a then legal L1A1(FN/FAL), packed my trash and moved to Hawaii six months later.
Only been back to visit. Between California and New York, I am thoroughly convinced what needs to happen is a national level of what went on in AThen's TN in 1946
 
#50
Re: Hoarding Rant

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Immorteq</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...your ability to play games when the core of the 2nd Amend is being hacked at daily. </div></div>

What is a "game" to some is a sport to others and equal in attention when it comes to exercising our rights and fighting for them. Matches are a great way to demonstrate skill in our sport and to engage the public in a positive manner while bringing others into the sport.
 
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