I want to get a tripod set up. Mostly for hunting. I could go with the Hog clamp or install quick release plats directly to the underside of the stock just in front of the mag well. The down side to the Hog as I see it is weight , one more piece of equipment to keep track of, and cost. The up side is that it is a simple solution. The down side of the quick release plate is it is a pain in ass to mount securely, epoxy in, tap and tread inserts. The up side is cost, nothing to carry around just pop spotting scope out, pop in rifle. What am I missing ? Real world experience would be appreciate. X
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Hog Saddle vs RRS quick release plat
- Thread starter Xtate
- Start date
I prefer the tripod-picatinny rail adapter-rifle situation that can be assembled with a LaRue QD mount or Rogers Rail QD polymer mount both result in a solid situation. The Hog saddle with my Mod-8 variation (secured rifle to mount with paracord tensioning to prevent the rifle from slipping out of the mount when unattended) works pretty well, but weight / bulky profile can be an issue. I setup a Swarovski carbon fiber tripod that allows for packing along every variant mount option for the intended use that day.
![FullSizeRender[12] copy.jpg](https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/attachments/fullsizerender-12-copy-jpg.7474704/ "FullSizeRender[12] copy.jpg")
After using it both ways (and also trying the RRS Vyce) I put arca plates on my hunting rifles. Easier to connect/disconnect quickly, lighter and more stable. A small plate just in front of the mag well works great. i used JB Weld Steelstik moldable epoxy on the back of the plate to conform it to the shape of the stock.
Even more friendly on a skinnier stock is a small section of picatinny rail if your head will take it. Like noted above, for actual hunting use it’s just way faster to have one less thing the fumble with.
As soon as I went direct to the rifle the saddle was sold. It’s a lot more hassle than it’s worth if you can clamp right on.
Direct mounting is the way to go for sure...... I started with a hog saddle and still have an RRS vice..... both are extra weight and slower to deploy than a direct mount..... it doesn't take much, I've made a bunch of my own for super cheap out of 1.5" aluminum, bought a 10' strip and outfitted all my hunting guns for less than The cost of buying one pre-made rail.
I agree with the direct mounting as well, I use the RRS Anvil with a RRS Rail mounted to my hunting rig, its much lighter weight, very quick to deploy, extremely solid mount and can be used across all of equipment such as my AR, binoculars, range finder, etc...
I started with the small plates on my hunting rifles before RRS was a big thing with their SOAR line. All my hunting guns now have a full length, Hendeson Rail. They are ultra-light and weigh fairly closely to the thicker but short RRS rails. https://www.hendersonprecision.com/product-page/copy-of-xlr-element-1-5-d-rail
It is way faster not to have to worry about matching the small rail to the clamp, especially if you're trying to setup while looking at the animal, more flexible in where the tripod is placed. The biggest benefit is that it widens and flattens hunting forends allowing them to be far more stable if shooting off your pack. They are comfortable in hand and have the benefit of sliding a bipod anywhere if you roll with a bipod.
Painless300 I have one of the Henderson inserts like on your rig on one of my hunting guns. Superslick, but most of my Henderson Rails are just direct mounted, I even have one on a stock Tikka superlight (5.8lbs without scope) mounted directly to the round plastic stock. It actually looks fine and works well. That said that is about the nicest RRS paint job I have ever seen!
It is way faster not to have to worry about matching the small rail to the clamp, especially if you're trying to setup while looking at the animal, more flexible in where the tripod is placed. The biggest benefit is that it widens and flattens hunting forends allowing them to be far more stable if shooting off your pack. They are comfortable in hand and have the benefit of sliding a bipod anywhere if you roll with a bipod.
Painless300 I have one of the Henderson inserts like on your rig on one of my hunting guns. Superslick, but most of my Henderson Rails are just direct mounted, I even have one on a stock Tikka superlight (5.8lbs without scope) mounted directly to the round plastic stock. It actually looks fine and works well. That said that is about the nicest RRS paint job I have ever seen!
Everything I own has been converted to direct mount. I'm using the Area 419 4.25" Arca rails on my hunting guns and 12" rails on my 'range' guns. Like everyone else has said, the direct mount is far more stable, faster, and lighter. I've got a pig saddle that is just collecting dust now.
Thanks Diver! Travis at TS Customs inset the rail for me as I just wanted it flush mounted. Daniel at Primal Finish in TN. Cerakote everything for me, he does outstanding work! My stock is a McMillian A3A w/ Edge so the forearm is not as rounded as a normal hunting stock and it sits on my pack fairly flat. That was a good point on the full length Henderson making a flatter stock.
Thats a nice rig you got there, what round is it chambered for and what break is that?
Oh, ya @orkan -- I've seen his but not as up close as your picture. I have to admit I am kinda lusting after that a bit.
7mm running 168HuntVLDs at 3050fps, (although I had a one 7mmN with 180s at 3175) as pictured its coming in a 10lbs (with the mag- as I went back to the BDL). The break is a Heathen, fairly light, almost as effective as match gun breaks but doesn't toss as much muzzle blast backward ( a bit nicer when hunting). Obviously not a nice as your quieter
Just got back this week from another successful Elk hunt with it and filled a couple of tags; a lot of damn hiking and the first part of the week, it sure looked bleak; glad it turned around at the end.
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Zback - think twice about using the tiny rail section. Yes, it works, but it could work better.
In the field sometimes you'll have to set up where the vegetation or angles dictate the tripod legs go. Especially when shooting up or down the ability to slide in the clamp for the final adjustment is really nice. It is also really nice if you have a prone shot and want to use your tripod to be able to slide it to the front.
Other than that, as mentioned it is faster to insert, especially when you're looking at the animal, shoots great off a backpack (more stable than the bare stock and doesn't get hung up under recoil like a bunch of small plates), and easier if you're setting up in the dark for a NV hunt.
If you're anywhere near Central CA this weekend, come and help RO our UKD Team Feild Match, you'll see how much faster guys are under pressure with full rails vs. stubbies. The match is much like the images above in that I set up the FFPs to challenge the team's field awareness and skill in situations bipods will not work.
BTW here is a link to tripod field tips and tricks I did for the match shooters, some of it might be interesting if you're setting your hunting rifle to use a tripod/
www.snipershide.com
In the field sometimes you'll have to set up where the vegetation or angles dictate the tripod legs go. Especially when shooting up or down the ability to slide in the clamp for the final adjustment is really nice. It is also really nice if you have a prone shot and want to use your tripod to be able to slide it to the front.
Other than that, as mentioned it is faster to insert, especially when you're looking at the animal, shoots great off a backpack (more stable than the bare stock and doesn't get hung up under recoil like a bunch of small plates), and easier if you're setting up in the dark for a NV hunt.
If you're anywhere near Central CA this weekend, come and help RO our UKD Team Feild Match, you'll see how much faster guys are under pressure with full rails vs. stubbies. The match is much like the images above in that I set up the FFPs to challenge the team's field awareness and skill in situations bipods will not work.
BTW here is a link to tripod field tips and tricks I did for the match shooters, some of it might be interesting if you're setting your hunting rifle to use a tripod/
Advanced Marksmanship - Tips & Tricks, from Tripods to Stage Examples for - UKD Team Field Match or Hunting
looking forward to the tripod class also, you are putting out so much info, i really appreciate the time your putting into this.
www.snipershide.com
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The Anvil 30 is hands down the best tripod shooting head I have used. A close second is one of the higher weight rating ball heads with a big knob you can grap with your hand to tighten.
I ran a short ARCA plate, camera length. It is very good but I am going to a 4 to 6 inch plate.
Also, I think I want to bed the plate to my rifle, make it more secure with less wiggle under recoil.
There is no more versatile tool for precision shooting than a tripod.
I ran a cheap Amazon ball head and Innorel 80 tripod before jumping in. That was far better than the PIG saddle method I tried.
I ran a short ARCA plate, camera length. It is very good but I am going to a 4 to 6 inch plate.
Also, I think I want to bed the plate to my rifle, make it more secure with less wiggle under recoil.
There is no more versatile tool for precision shooting than a tripod.
I ran a cheap Amazon ball head and Innorel 80 tripod before jumping in. That was far better than the PIG saddle method I tried.
When it’s single digits and below don’t you wear gloves? I do.
ive made various lengths.... the one in the picture I posted was a 12 rail but most of the ones I've made are about 3".... I even learned to anodize them, a fun project for sure.
here's a pic of the short rails I've made...
Enough that it deters me from having any more metal than I need. In reality I usually have a light pair of gloves on where having metal still feels cold. Rarely do I wear a thick glove I can’t shoot In while I’m hunting. I’m also a firm believer in keeping my rifle in my hand not strapped up or in a sling during hunting hours. Same reason I choose to not use a chassis style stock on my hunting rifles. I wear gloves bow hunting too, and I can tell you I can really feel that aluminum riser in my hand holding it for hours.
I’m not disagreeing with a full length rail being more versatile. I just personally havnt yet seen the need on my hunting rifles.
The small section can sometimes be a pain night hunting but I’m so used to the lineup now it’s quick.
I like the arca rail / RRS just because for me it's more versatile. I can switch out from rifle to spotting scope to camera gear. I actually started with the arca system for my cameras so it was a no brainer for me
Makes sense - thanks got the reply. I also use a thin pair of KUIU Merino wool liners as gloves. But down mittens when glassing etc and will use gloves when hiking and packing. I however find the full rail somehow more comfortable carrying as I do with a BDL for long hikes, no bumps or hard angles. I ended up going back to a BDL on my Elk gun, but my Pig gun is Mag feed.
The thing that is great here is that almost everyone on the site, hunter or not shoots many times what an average hunter might shoot, so process and products get well used and tested. We often split hairs of what "might" be better, easier, or more accurate. We tend to take what we learn from shooting an enormous amount and from learning from others and push past traditional practices; just as we might pass on the 14 oz traditional SFP duplex and take a 26oz scope miles into the mountains for our long-range hunt possibilities, so that we have FFP for accurate wind holds, illumination to make our low power reticles pop like a duplex, exposed but locking turrets for the vetted drop.
Having these dialogs are great, there is no one way for everyone, and the differences are so small. I know this weekend as we run our Feild match I see something that I'll probably want to emulate, I'll see others that I won't. I did however set up the FFPs to lure teams into making the wrong decisions in initial tripod heights. Will see how many teams read the tips and tricks pages
BTW I still have a small rail on a couple of guns.
My PCP (FX500 Royal) can not run anything longer, I shoot it almost nightly at night using NV to control rats.. it's kinda fun practice. Even though I am well practiced I still need to be more controlled in how I clamp it in.
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Diver, what is a TA-UL-LC ? it was listed on one of your other threads. I have this 25 year old Bogen tripod it weighs a ton but is rock steady. What head should I buy that will pan and grid with my 15X56's pop them out and put my rifle in for the shot?
Grid glassing as your probably know is something not everyone does. Most people can get away with general glassing with a ball head, Anvil 30, leveling head, or the universal leveling head like the TA-UL-LC; if shooting off the tripod is the primary use. There are many pan/tilt heads available for glassing only but most either suck to shoot from or are super expensive (thousands $ for really stable fluid pan tilts) and very, very heavy.
The TA-UL-LC (WAS) a fairly low weight fair cost solution to make a standard tripod a bit more stable than a smaller ball head or a lighter duty pan/tilt head. You could also use the Anvil 30 for more angular movement, but I have seen some have issues with the small base on a standard apex.
I believe it is now a TA-2U-LC at $345
That said if you're grid-glassing and still want to shoot well from your setup with a minimum weight penalty, my favorite is Berlebach Model 553 2-Way Tilt Head with Quick Release Plate lists about $700 but is available via Adorama for $549. I then remove the Heavy QR plate (but you don't have to) and run a lighter RRS Clamp coming in only about 8oz heavier than the ultra-light Anvil 30 or about 10oz+ lighter than the BH55. The new Outdoorsman Fluid head $699 is about the same 23oz weight and both will hold a hunting rifle well. The cheaper Outdoorsman pan head $399 is also great for grid glassing but did not hold my rifle as stable as I wanted.
For someone who doesn't know what Xrate is saying "grid glassing" relies on the ability to control both the horizontal and vertical axis independently. It helps when really trying to make sure you cover every possible spot to run left to right, then make a controlled elevation change, and then covering the same exact arc on the next pass just above or below; you really notice the benefits when working with big glass and unbalanced loads.
you can see the 553 on my tripod on the left. vs. my Anvil next to it.
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Seems like ARCA is by far the most popular method.
Is there any good reason to go for a hog saddle/clamp over ARCA rail?
Seems like the only advantage is having a setup that will take any rifle you throw at it, all other advantages go to ARCA rail.
Is there any good reason to go for a hog saddle/clamp over ARCA rail?
Seems like the only advantage is having a setup that will take any rifle you throw at it, all other advantages go to ARCA rail.
How much of a step up is the 553 over my Jim White or the Bogen fluid head ? The problem is any thing good for grid work is only 2 axis and I want 3 axis for the shot would you / can you mount the pan head on top of a ball head? Keep the ball tight when gridding using the panhead, then when you switch to the rifle use the ball to get the 3rd axis? FYI you should get rid of that swarovski pin mount and get the outdoorsman.
As an option, you could go with the anvil 30, for shooting, and then add a panning clamp for grid glassing. It's a compromise, but if you are primarily shooting with glassing as a secondary function, it might work for you.
Something like this maybe:
https://www.reallyrightstuff.com/pc-lr
We glass 99.9 % of the time, you got to find them to shoot them, I would rather have the best glassing set up and a rusty open site 30 30 that could only group 5 moa, than the best shooting tripod set up, my mental problem is I want both in one package , a good mother for my children that fucks like a porn star.
The Outdoorsman 2.0 correct? That what I had 1.0 Jim White same as the 2.0 but not 1.5" compatible and replaced it with the 553. Mine was pretty bouncy with a rifle. I am still deciding if I like the 553 enough to ditch the Anvil. It shoots about the same, but dang is grid glassing nice. For me, even though it is light for what it is it is still 8oz+ heavier than the Anvil. I've spent thousands to get my gun and packs as light as they can be, so I am still undecided. I spend way more hours glassing than shooting it seems on a hunt so I keep going back and forth, one is far better for glassing and the other lighter and simplier. I do not have any problem getting in target with the 553, especially if you don't keep it locked.
Swaro vs Outdoorsman; I have 3 outdoorsmans, my Swaro I can 1 hand even with gloves, the Outdoorsmen also fail to lock up sometimes. If you don't believe me contact @sfogold and ask him about his smashed Swaro 15x56s and his buddies 2 sets (giving him a hard time). The swaro base doesn't need an adapter to lock into my RRS clamps, while my outdoorsmans do. Why do you suggest they are better?
No, I would not. More weight, more height above the lock point will equal more shake, especially when windy and the barrel is hanging out into the wind and sending vibration back. The biggest reason though is if that panning clamp is on "top" of a ball head losses its horizontal plan once the ball head is loosened for it a vertical adjustment.
Edited to Add: @sfogold and his partner are one of my pics for a podium finish in our UKD Team Match this year.
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Makes sense - thanks got the reply. I also use a thin pair of KUIU Merino wool liners as gloves. But down mittens when glassing etc and will use gloves when hiking and packing. I however find the full rail somehow more comfortable carrying as I do with a BDL for long hikes, no bumps or hard angles. I ended up going back to a BDL on my Elk gun, but my Pig gun is Mag feed.
The thing that is great here is that almost everyone on the site, hunter or not shoots many times what an average hunter might shoot, so process and products get well used and tested. We often split hairs of what "might" be better, easier, or more accurate. We tend to take what we learn from shooting an enormous amount and from learning from others and push past traditional practices; just as we might pass on the 14 oz traditional SFP duplex and take a 26oz scope miles into the mountains for our long-range hunt possibilities, so that we have FFP for accurate wind holds, illumination to make our low power reticles pop like a duplex, exposed but locking turrets for the vetted drop.
Having these dialogs are great, there is no one way for everyone, and the differences are so small. I know this weekend as we run our Feild match I see something that I'll probably want to emulate, I'll see others that I won't. I did however set up the FFPs to lure teams into making the wrong decisions in initial tripod heights. Will see how many teams read the tips and tricks pages
BTW I still have a small rail on a couple of guns.
View attachment 7476268
My PCP (FX500 Royal) can not run anything longer, I shoot it almost nightly at night using NV to control rats.. it's kinda fun practice. Even though I am well practiced I still need to be more controlled in how I clamp it in.
One thing for certain is a tripod for me is a game changer in the field. Got to shoot a deer off it this year, use it to glass. After summer practicing off it getting setup and on target takes no time.
Our experience has been the opposite with 15's falling out the Swaro and never out of the outdoorsman, also I could never get the Swaro tight enough aways a ting wobble drove me nuts. Once the pin is in the mount and tight I never take it out, I treat the Bio, mount and base plate as one unit. That way it is quicker to set up and works with gloves on your point of contact with your base plate release.
Thanks for the info. I agree with the swivel issue. I hate to say this, but after using the Maven's 11x for bow hunting, they are so much easier to look through I might switch. I am not saying they are better glass, but the viewing experience is more relaxing. Plus I have an ATX65 and an ATX85 and Swaro 8s..
PS I keep my binos in my KUIU chest rig and neither of the mounts fit attached, the RRS and the GoHunts could but they don't co-witness or maintain the same view height when switching from binos to spotters.
Well this thread is gonna cost me a lot of money. Looks like the 24L with the anvil is the way to go with the cinch mount for my binos and a plate for my spotter. Hoping glassing is as good as with the outdoorsmans head that I currently have but I’m thinking the convenience of everything mounting to one head is gonna be sweet. Thanks for the info!
That’s the setup I have. It’s great to shoot from. I actually kinda like it with my binos. It works with my spotter, but definitely a compromise.
Good to know. I generally only pull the spotter out when I find something so I won’t be scanning with it. Should work fine for that.
People are going to shoot me for sounding so opinionated, but I am trying to help save people over a decade of very costly experimentation.
Stay with me for a minute. Many PRS shooters are lusting for the TVC-22i, it's two legs deploy much faster than the 4 legs a lot of people bought. However, these are a poor choice for shooting in the wild on steep slopes because they just do not get small enough. The standard 3 legs blend the best of both worlds. Much easier and faster in the wild to set than the 4 leg sections. Ya, in the PRS world standing tall and glassing big guys need the 4 legs or long options when using binos; but how often do we stand tall like that when hunting?
I guess I am saying everything is a series of compromises, the goal, at least mine is to stack as much I'm my favor as possible to get the most flexibility in height, speed of deployment, and most importantly, stability to weight ratio.
The RRS TFC-33 looks much bigger with its fat legs and shoot with more stability than the TFC-24L Both are great tripods. How much heavier do you think the TFC-33 is than the thinner legged TFC-24L?
Wait for it...... about 13-30grams, not ounces. 13 GRAMS less than a 1/2oz
Having owned both the 24 and 33 and the equivalents in the Feisol products 3342 and 3372; no way would I have attempted some of the shots on animals we've taken from the larger units. Do smaller legs work? Absolutely, but my wobble zoon grows uncomfortable large on a long-range shot and a prized life. That said, I've been next to guys flinging lead off sticks and they seem to have no issue missing or with the possibility of missing. I am not saying that you'll miss with a 24 vs a 33 just that there is a noticeable difference in stability.
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I want you to be opinionated. No way do I want to spend the money you have to learn what you know.
Diver160651, thanks for the info. I was eyeballing the 33 as well. I’m still on the fence between the two. More stability is always good. I liked the extra height of the 24L just in case I ever want to glass standing up. I’m only 5’6” so I could make it work on the 33 and it would only be used in that capacity occasionally. Thanks again for your input!
You are 5’ 6”?
get the 33 I am 5’ 10 and never ran out of tripod- see us non-giants get a win every now and then.
You know I’ve been after @MPHReallyRightStuff for some time to loan us a 24 and 33 as demos because we are one of the most hilly courses to hold monthly matches. Sad because it could help so many shooters, great PR for RRS and only a 1k investment that they’d recoup when they sold them. There must be bigger concerns that I don’t see.
hands-down whatever you do, the RRS 24 or 33 is one of the best investments you can make if you’re a hunter, Leo or Mil sniper. If you’re an Enthusiast, it is damn hard not to find pride and value too.
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You’ll be super happy. Other hunters are going to say damn how can you carry that heavy thing. They have no idea how light it really is. But they might have a bipod, shooting sticks and a bag that weigh as much or worse yet some heavy wobbly bogpod thing - you’ll drop an animal far away and they’ll be so jealous.
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Not to highjack this thread, but I saw a few guys mention various RRS tripods. I'm trying to decide between 24L vs 34L with a Anvil 30. It will mainly be used on my AR for night hunting. Occassionly, once a year it will make a trip out west to hunt. I'm 6'2 hence the reason for the L version. I'm just trying to figure out how much stability I would sacrifice by going the 24L route in attempt to save weight?
For clarity, 6’ 2” if you are shooting with good posture, feet apart, hips bent, the regulars are fine. It’s primarily for PRS where you stand tall and use Binos all day. The binos are generally a foot + higher than the height for your gun.
The taller they are (any of them) the more unstable they are if you're not packing into the mountains and trying to pack it back out with a big ass load of meat; the 1lb probably doesn't come into play. I'd vote for the 34L if your planning to glass with binos. Whatever you decide to do, kneeling will more stable than standing, the 3's more stable in the same position as the 2's.
The taller they are (any of them) the more unstable they are if you're not packing into the mountains and trying to pack it back out with a big ass load of meat; the 1lb probably doesn't come into play. I'd vote for the 34L if your planning to glass with binos. Whatever you decide to do, kneeling will more stable than standing, the 3's more stable in the same position as the 2's.
@Diver160651 if you had to pick the perfect setup for hunting what would it be? Based on this I'm sold on the 33, especially with my spotter being angled. I come from a world of light weight backpacking so like you have spent the time/money getting as light as possible while still having the best functionality and comfort. Learned the comfort lesson quickly while backpacking...
I am no beast when it comes to packing strength. I too strive for lightness. Two things that I am unwilling to give up performance for weight is the scope and support system. I’ll look for my performance window with lightest offering. As an example @26oz, the MK5 HD 3-18 has what I want, FFP, locking working turrets, good reticle, illumination, good glass, forgiving eye box. Can I save 8 -12 oz going to a SPF with out turrets? Sure but I’ll give up way to much for wind holds etc. The same for my Tripod, I had smaller 24 and 3342 tripods I used fir a few season, the weight delta is not worth the stabilization the few once’s bring from using the 33, in my opinion. What this set up does is allow me to take a shot with certainty much further than I could with the other systems, and often get animals that other hunters would have to pass on, or take multiple shots sometimes loosing it. I figure I’ll find other ways to recapture the lost once’s.
That said, I cut my tooth brush, unwrap my food, use crazy lite poles that double to hold my shelter etc. if I am backpacking, I now your Dilemma ~
I am not the worlds best anything, just spent way too much money trying to find the best kits.
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