I am afraid you don't know if you are the cause of the stupidity, so maybe you shouldn't be casting stones.
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Holland - they have researched the mask- interesting
- Thread starter hermosabeach
- Start date
OK so why is everything shut down if masks are so effective. Science seems to be subjective. If science is so correct why the need to close down the dissenters view.
So far it seems the science changes almost daily. It is hard to trust that which seems to so variable. I am not saying they work or don't work. I am saying the whole situation has been distorted. It has become political, I can't trust political.
Do doctors own large stakes in the Pharma and medical supply and testing industry? Is that a conflict? Does Fauci practice what he preaches? There is no truth anymore, just narratives. I don't trust that.
15% sounds about right to me. That is my guestimate of "some", and tracks with common sense. Would 15% more cases make a difference in not overwhelming the hospitals with inevitable spikes? In the real world I will wear a mask, wash my hands all the time, not shake hands, and socially distance if the alternative is slavering leftists who want to shut the country down because they're terrified. That's really what's most dangerous. It's terrified "leaders" who can't find their courage.
Wearing a mask is more polite, like covering your mouth when you cough, than some scientific way to stop the virus as the ideocracy would have you believe. Of course it's been politicized by the left, and of course I get why there is a reaction to it, but lets not be like them. Lets stick to the truth and to facts. Lets be the ones who actually live in reality. We are the calm and reasonable ones...
And, if it comes down to it we will shoot every one of those commie motherfuckers in their face.
Wearing a mask is more polite, like covering your mouth when you cough, than some scientific way to stop the virus as the ideocracy would have you believe. Of course it's been politicized by the left, and of course I get why there is a reaction to it, but lets not be like them. Lets stick to the truth and to facts. Lets be the ones who actually live in reality. We are the calm and reasonable ones...
And, if it comes down to it we will shoot every one of those commie motherfuckers in their face.
My buddy works for a huge "Wound Care Center", and the libtard doctor who runs it told him to buy lots of stock in Centene, because when the Democrats are in control and go full single-payer Centene will run the money for all US healthcare and triple in value. When my buddy said that would be terrible, his response was, "Don't you want to make a lot of money?"
Doctors are some of the stupidest people on planet Earth. It is the equivalent of a Master Plumber believing that because he knows everything about plumbing he's a structural engineer.
Do you have a link to this study? I am curious what face mask(s) they utilized to compute their results. N-95s, Surgical, Cloth Surgical, Procedural, etc?
@Fig - yep.
Not all, but 90+% for sure.
they have a god complex like none I have seen. Cannot have a conversation without telling someone they are a doctor.
In public, I avoid telling people what I do. Otherwise they want to talk, tell stories, or worst is asking questions......
Not all, but 90+% for sure.
they have a god complex like none I have seen. Cannot have a conversation without telling someone they are a doctor.
In public, I avoid telling people what I do. Otherwise they want to talk, tell stories, or worst is asking questions......
Who the fuck do you think you are ?
Giving me a dissertation on masks,
I have had military and industrial training.
You also have a lot of nerve calling me a fucking sheep, especially after tossing your convictions just to look at a moniter that most places give you a jump stick of anyway.
And I can tell you one thing you won't call me a sheep to my face more than one time because it's just like arguing about a mask------
NOT FUCKING WORTH IT.
think you misunderstood me. If you are susceptible to getting a bad case of the Rona I am 100% for and believe actual respirators work, preferably in the p100 range as long as mask protocols are followed. 10/10 does not make you a sheep, you are genuinely protecting yourself.
Now, going out and wearing thin cloth face panties just because the gov mandated every single person has to wear a mask...baaaaaa. the current standards they are setting makes it completely unethical for us to ever NOT wear a mask again. The current logic says that if every person doesn’t wear a mask we are now all responsible for any human disease and virus being spread ever. With the current logic we will never get rid of wearing these face coverings. They have been a political tool to divide us even sharper than we were before. We now look at our fellow man as disease ridden vermin. If we can’t get away from this viewpoint and line of thinking....baaaaaa. People have become great show sheep that do tricks and everything at the masters behest
Completely agree. This is what I've been trying to explain to others that are in a mindset of "it will eventually all go away". It won't if we can't agree on what is considered moral relating to non symptomatic people wearing masks.
This. So much this.
If covid gets cured tomorrow, 100% gone, wouldn’t it still be unethical to not wear a mask under current think? I mean what if you give my babies the fu? They are 16x more likely to die from the flu than covid. Are you trying to kill my babies with every breath you take? Flu kills tons of old people every year also you grandpa killer, put your mask back on.
we can’t Keep living like this. Multiple countries have already said they are not going to mandate masks. Non compliance needs to start now with masks.
Yep. It's easy to predict the next set of talking points:
- How many people are you willing to let die so you can take off your mask?
- Is it really that hard to wear a piece of cloth so others can live life to the fullest?
- What, are you some kind of wimp who can't handle a little mask wearing when you grocery shop?
- What kind of vein jerk are you? Do you think you're the only one who deserves to show their face uncovered while risking others?
- Even my grandma wears a mask when it's 110º outside while chopping firewood. You can handle it, cupcake.
I'll leave you with this.
Old beat up folks and infants are at risk.
So if you young strong guys have little to no effect I get that was like that till work permanently fucked me up.
The thing is you are still a carrier and should think about that while visiting elderly family and infants.
I get exposed every day by grandkids and my wife and her coworkers kid my wife watches, that works at a grocery store.
I don't put on a mask untill I have to shop for something because I don't want to waste my time.
Kind of like this thread a waste of time.
Old beat up folks and infants are at risk.
So if you young strong guys have little to no effect I get that was like that till work permanently fucked me up.
The thing is you are still a carrier and should think about that while visiting elderly family and infants.
I get exposed every day by grandkids and my wife and her coworkers kid my wife watches, that works at a grocery store.
I don't put on a mask untill I have to shop for something because I don't want to waste my time.
Kind of like this thread a waste of time.
We could quite possibly be carriers, and I agree we should think smartly of how we interact with the most at risk. But there is also a counterbalance to this of your own personal responsibility to "reverse quarantine" given your risk factors as well.
Can you post some links to the studies you reference that conclude masks increase risk of spreading the virus? I have not seen anything like that and I have been paying close attention.
You're in no position to mandate where I go.
It's up to me to decide my risk versus travel / participation.
I quit going to large events mostly long ago because too many assholes trying to tell me what to do.
Oh I forgot (like you)
Thats not what I am saying, but not surprised you took it like that. Your post is very much "do as I say, not as I do".
At the end of the day, you share the load of responsibility of keeping yourself safe from infection. More so than anyone else.
I observe here and on other social media platforms that those that don't want to wear masks or have some anti-mask agenda make claims that masks don't work, masks are bad, etc. but cite either zero support or another unsupported statement by someone with little or no credentials. Those statements are countered by links to published scientific studies saying that masks, in fact, are helpful and our best defense against the virus. The anti-maksers respond that they just don't believe the science or organizations that do the studies and accuse the people that do of being sheeple or liberals. Every time. Without fail.
A year ago, I would never have believed that so many people would be willfully ignorant and willfully blind to clear facts and science, ESPECIALLY precision shooters who rely on science (physics and chemistry) and the scientific method of testing (load development, effectivness of techniques, problems with gear, etc.) to do what we do. I've seen people who I thought were smart and reasonable take these positions like little kids with their arms-folded saying uh-uh as their best counter-argument.
The comedy movie Idiocracy appears to have been a true forecast of our future, which is sickening.
A year ago, I would never have believed that so many people would be willfully ignorant and willfully blind to clear facts and science, ESPECIALLY precision shooters who rely on science (physics and chemistry) and the scientific method of testing (load development, effectivness of techniques, problems with gear, etc.) to do what we do. I've seen people who I thought were smart and reasonable take these positions like little kids with their arms-folded saying uh-uh as their best counter-argument.
The comedy movie Idiocracy appears to have been a true forecast of our future, which is sickening.
This. You don’t like being told how to protect yourself the same way I don’t like being told/forced on how to protect you either
Do mask work?
Yes, well maybe, not all mask work. Studies showing that cloth mask (these are triple layer mask) are not as effective as surgical mask and surgical mask are not as effective as N95 mask. So, yes mask do work if you’re using a N95 mask. Per the CDC “A recent study also showed that SARS-CoV-2 may be transmitted up to 4 m”. Droplets are known to travel up to 8 meters. However, aerosols can travel farther and can linger in plums in the air.
So, we see that N95 mask do work and others fall short. The main problem is that those who can afford and find N95 mask for the most part do not know how to wear them. This makes these masks less effective. Single layer cloth masks are the least effective and need to be washed every day. Surgical masked need to be used only once than thrown out.
So, for an example you are at a store getting groceries and one isle over someone sneezes and they are wearing a surgical mask. That’s great because they limit the droplets into the air by using this type of mask. However, the aerosol goes out and around the mask into the air and can linger from 3 to 16 hours in the air. Per the WHO, “These studies found SARS-CoV-2 virus RNA in air samples within aerosols for up to 3 hours in one study (21) and 16 hours in another, which also found viable replication-competent virus.”. That means when you walk down that isle you will become contaminated and if you are not wearing your N95 mask correctly you will breath in the aerosol. Hopefully that person did not have COVID 19.
By all means wear a mask if you want too. However, unless it’s a N95 worn correctly wearing a mask is just to make you feel good. So why do all the stores want us to wear mask, well litigation would be what comes to mind. So why do all the government agencies want us to wear mask. I suggest to give us some comfort. These are my opinions. By the way I comply with government policies and wear a mask.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article
https://www.who.int/news-room/comme...ications-for-infection-prevention-precautions
Yes, well maybe, not all mask work. Studies showing that cloth mask (these are triple layer mask) are not as effective as surgical mask and surgical mask are not as effective as N95 mask. So, yes mask do work if you’re using a N95 mask. Per the CDC “A recent study also showed that SARS-CoV-2 may be transmitted up to 4 m”. Droplets are known to travel up to 8 meters. However, aerosols can travel farther and can linger in plums in the air.
So, we see that N95 mask do work and others fall short. The main problem is that those who can afford and find N95 mask for the most part do not know how to wear them. This makes these masks less effective. Single layer cloth masks are the least effective and need to be washed every day. Surgical masked need to be used only once than thrown out.
So, for an example you are at a store getting groceries and one isle over someone sneezes and they are wearing a surgical mask. That’s great because they limit the droplets into the air by using this type of mask. However, the aerosol goes out and around the mask into the air and can linger from 3 to 16 hours in the air. Per the WHO, “These studies found SARS-CoV-2 virus RNA in air samples within aerosols for up to 3 hours in one study (21) and 16 hours in another, which also found viable replication-competent virus.”. That means when you walk down that isle you will become contaminated and if you are not wearing your N95 mask correctly you will breath in the aerosol. Hopefully that person did not have COVID 19.
By all means wear a mask if you want too. However, unless it’s a N95 worn correctly wearing a mask is just to make you feel good. So why do all the stores want us to wear mask, well litigation would be what comes to mind. So why do all the government agencies want us to wear mask. I suggest to give us some comfort. These are my opinions. By the way I comply with government policies and wear a mask.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article
https://www.who.int/news-room/comme...ications-for-infection-prevention-precautions
Next month I’m going to have 2 kids under the age of 13 months in my house. I know full well about having to protect the vulnerable. They can protect themselves less than you can. I don’t want every person in this country wearing a mask for their protection. It’s up to me to protect them. Not everyone else.
I didn't ask any of you to wear a mask for my protection.
Don't be making shit up.
I wont be the one at the store that starts a raving karen bitch fit since you decided not to.
I just wont be the ass holding up the line at the register.
Don't be making shit up.
I wont be the one at the store that starts a raving karen bitch fit since you decided not to.
I just wont be the ass holding up the line at the register.
CDC and who have already come out explaining that asymptomatic carriers aren't transmitters. They have also come out saying that masks are ineffective, the reason why they were letting prisoners out.
Additionally, they've also come out and said they have lied about the mortality rate and infection rate.
Additionally, they've also come out and said they have lied about the mortality rate and infection rate.
I don't think this is a fair statement to make. There's been more then a few research papers posted in this thread, that show that non-medical mask use is inconclusive at best, for prevention of spread of a virus such as COVID-19.
If you look at the WHO's latest mask report (June 2020) they say right in there that there's no "high quality data or direct scientific studies" that show that non-medical mask use prevents community spread.
I think it's fair to question things, especially given the healthcare officials track record during this pandemic. We've been lied to, misinformation has been purposely spread to protect China, and the message has been wildly inconsistent. On that basis alone we should be questioning our government and healthcare officials. This along with other measures taken have impacted EVERYONE'S lives, mostly for the worst.
I'm not a pro or anti-masker, but I am pro hold your government and elected officials accountable. The science is not conclusive or "settled" on mask efficacy in mitigating covid-19 transmission, we don't even fully understand how the virus transmits, so we can't understand how effective non-medical mask use is.
And lastly, whether it's intentional or not, it's being used as a tool to continue to divide us. All of a sudden there's a moral imperative to use a non-medical mask, how dare you put others at risk. I don't think that's fair to put on people, and personally I believe that goes against some of the founding principals of this country.
A year or more ago I was confident most people WOULD comply with almost any government mandate.
The United States of America does not mandate masks, period. As far as I can tell it's only blue state governors, and blue county/city governments who think they can mandate masks. I am quite sure that the bevy of leftist/communist/progressive judges will uphold it, so I think it should go directly to SCOTUS, because I don't need to be convinced the government doesn't have the right to force anyone to wear a mask.
:watermark(cdn.texastribune.org/media/watermarks/2020.png,-0,30,0)/static.texastribune.org/media/files/d3a97a92f2a37abb04249a80741ab81a/Abbott%20June%2016%20press%20AAS%20RBB%20TT%2001.jpg)
Gov. Greg Abbott orders Texans in most counties to wear masks in public
Abbott previously resisted calls for such an order and at one point banned local governments from requiring masks. First-time violators will be issued a warning, though repeat offenders could be fined up to $250.
www.texastribune.org
FFS...
If you are going to go beyond your "safe" place and are afraid wear a mask.
If you aren't afraid don't.
You can't hold the above two people to a different set of rules.
The first one should/has to take the risks good or bad for their self.
The second one can do the same.
What used to be a common practice every single God damned day before this debacle.
Like all past viruses they are here to stay.
Let this ^^^ sink in...
One would think folks on this site could see the parallels with this and gun ownership.
If you feel your mask isn't up to the task I'd suggest finding one that is.
Trying to force feed the extra "protection" onto others is a slippery slope so fucking dangerous
we don't even want to let it get a start.
This ^^^ is already happening, look at this thread.
R
If you are going to go beyond your "safe" place and are afraid wear a mask.
If you aren't afraid don't.
You can't hold the above two people to a different set of rules.
The first one should/has to take the risks good or bad for their self.
The second one can do the same.
What used to be a common practice every single God damned day before this debacle.
Like all past viruses they are here to stay.
Let this ^^^ sink in...
One would think folks on this site could see the parallels with this and gun ownership.
If you feel your mask isn't up to the task I'd suggest finding one that is.
Trying to force feed the extra "protection" onto others is a slippery slope so fucking dangerous
we don't even want to let it get a start.
This ^^^ is already happening, look at this thread.
R
I would hope that a vaccine will make those who are terrified chill out, but maybe not.
If it keeps going like this the covid will be the smallest consideration in the
a
If it keeps going like this the covid will be the smallest consideration in the
a
I get what you are saying and agree completely about the unfortunate division that masks have caused. I think using non-medical grade masks is essentially the best thing we have, given the supply shortage of N95. But they are still more effective than no mask at all at protecting others. This test was eye-opening to me.
Currently it has been accepted that this is just a temporary situation, endure it, it will go away. But the message being used to require covering your mouth is not one based on temporary reasons. These are some questions to consider, assuming masks made of any materiel are effective.
- Why haven't you been wearing a mask your entire life while doing public activities? Consider that viruses other than COVID have been transferring between persons causing deaths, this isn't new knowledge.
- When will you stop wearing a mask while doing public activities? Keep in mind various viruses will continue to cause deaths through asymptomatic transmission from this point on.
LOL Wade you have a pretty high opinion of yourself if you think I get on here every day to argue with you. Just like everything that comes from you, me-me-me, everything is about me.
You do understand people have been told to wear masks during flu season, if they are high risk or sick for a long time. We start there nice and simple. Is that also part of this insidious plan to dehumanize us?
We now have people saying aerosol and non symptomatic and a symptomatic spread are happening. Which any mask will contain some of if you are sick. So your plan is to go about life as though they are lying. Based on inconclusive research that you are touting as proof masks don't work. You complained when the first decisions made were not based on data, but complain when they make a choice based on data you don't like too.
The efficacy of masks is in question, it is not settled science they don't work. That is not the same conversation as "does the government has the power to mandate masks."
You do understand people have been told to wear masks during flu season, if they are high risk or sick for a long time. We start there nice and simple. Is that also part of this insidious plan to dehumanize us?
We now have people saying aerosol and non symptomatic and a symptomatic spread are happening. Which any mask will contain some of if you are sick. So your plan is to go about life as though they are lying. Based on inconclusive research that you are touting as proof masks don't work. You complained when the first decisions made were not based on data, but complain when they make a choice based on data you don't like too.
The efficacy of masks is in question, it is not settled science they don't work. That is not the same conversation as "does the government has the power to mandate masks."
I don’t disagree with your premise, but if the rona is smaller that what an N95 filters, and the rona is aersolized, ie - not in droplet form - truly aerosolized, how is the N95 mask, even if properly worn, helping?
I'll go back to my comment about the umbrella. If you need a study to understand how an umbrella might help to keep you dry in the rain I got nothing for you.
The people saying masks don't work are no different than the ones who were saying, "Walls don't work", when Trump was elected? What's next, doors don't work if any air gets through them?
I feel like I'm getting dumber in this thread.
The people saying masks don't work are no different than the ones who were saying, "Walls don't work", when Trump was elected? What's next, doors don't work if any air gets through them?
I feel like I'm getting dumber in this thread.
I linked the latest CDC and WHO reports, May and June respectively, earlier in this thread. It would help if you guys would read the whole thread instead of tagging along at the end. Read their reports and search the studies they cite. I am surprised you haven't seen this risk brought up considering it is in almost every study I have read pertaining to masks. Improper use not only reduces any effectiveness of masks, but increases the risk of infection . Its common sense. It doesn't take a scientist to understand that if a mask is actually contaminated that grabbing all over the damn thing and touching everything in site is not conducive to health and that touching everything in site and grabbing a clean mask is also not conducive to health.
My words of advice are that if you find an article such as the one that @supercorndogs posted, read the studies yourself and draw your own conclusions. Some authors seem to make big jumps from what is actually in the studies, or they cite studies with issues that discredit or at least seriously hurt the integrity of the study.
Also remember that any study other than certain observational data are usually in health care settings. Basically perfect conditions with trained individuals. Remember that once outside these controls, the results can be very different due to lack of training and understanding by the general pubic, and also the equipment used. In healthcare settings where problems are found, you can bet your ass it will be amplified outside of these conditions. If some evidence of effectiveness is found in a healthcare setting, you can bet your ass the effectiveness will be reduced outside of these conditions.
Read the whole report, but pages 6 and 7 pertain to masking of the general public. Many citations you can did into at the end of the report
The CDC own findings with multiple citations for you to dive into.
Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures
Pandemic Influenza—Personal Protective Measureswwwnc.cdc.gov
SickKids out of Canada (world renown children's hospital) Report and many citations from all over the world. Have fun.
LOL. I am trying to get a line on your argument. It seems to be, that because people misuse them, we should get rid of them, rather than teaching people to use them. God damn, where have I seen that line of thinking used before.
No, you think anyone that expresses, posts, or asks about a different point off view is trying to argue because you are too fucking simple too have god damn discussion.
I don't see anyone defending government using force to make people wear masks.
I think on the biggest and most important factor in all this shit we are probably all on the same page.
I think on the biggest and most important factor in all this shit we are probably all on the same page.
So many sheep who are just begging to be told what to do by the government to give them some stupid illusion of safety...........
I'll bet these same sheep will be all over beating up on anyone that wants to question the Bill Gates "Vaccine" that the government says everybody should be a good citizen and just "take without asking questions"......
Bet these same sheep will be more than happy with why don't you wear masks forever and act like being close to humans is a horrible thing forever....
Enjoy your servitude...
I'll bet these same sheep will be all over beating up on anyone that wants to question the Bill Gates "Vaccine" that the government says everybody should be a good citizen and just "take without asking questions"......
Bet these same sheep will be more than happy with why don't you wear masks forever and act like being close to humans is a horrible thing forever....
Enjoy your servitude...
Just emptied the tumbler and cooked lunch. Got 100 pieces fired in my new barrel and sized ready to start load development. I hit a prairie dog at 730 yesterday second shot, and nocked one flying off his mound at what my calculator said should be about 1150 by drop. I don't think he was hit though, he ran down and stayed down. LOL.
I think you are going from 0-100 pretty quick. The 1918 make orders are not still in place.
Just throwing this out there. I know good and well that actual respirators work. If I weld galvanized for 15 min without a mask my lungs are going to be on fire and I’ll be laid on the ground puking my guts out. With a silicone seal respirator with zero gaps around my face, which means shaving my beard, and p100 filters I can weld that stuff all day long and be fine.
the face panties people are wearing are nothing but a symbolic gesture of their fear, and bending to the will of the gov.
mask orders are stupid and nobody should comply with wearing panties on their face in order to “follow the rules”
TX has a mask order in
if you are worried about getting sick wear something that actually works. It’s not my responsibility to protect you.
the face panties people are wearing are nothing but a symbolic gesture of their fear, and bending to the will of the gov.
mask orders are stupid and nobody should comply with wearing panties on their face in order to “follow the rules”
TX has a mask order in
if you are worried about getting sick wear something that actually works. It’s not my responsibility to protect you.
I am just going off the links I provided. They state that the N95 is effective if worn correctly.
I was just typing my logic out loud. I wasn’t directing at you personally, but your inanimate links. Sorry! Not personal to you, I intended it to be rhetorically thought provoking.
I personally don’t think that situation I presented has been properly studied/tested at this time. I’m not a mask engineer though. I think the N95 has become very overrated for this rona situation. Sure it’s better than stripper underwear, but if somebody is truly trying to avoid contracting it, I don’t think the efficacy of a N95 is as great as many people think that it is. I have no scientific test groups to prove my theory. If I’m wrong, it ultimately doesn’t matter...
While you were shooting off your mouth about what you think grown ass free men should do i was busy doing real stuff.
Loaded
50 test bullets in 0.005 depth increments on a dillon. Tumbled another 100.
Played with grandkids and brought them back to my house to spend the nite.
Ran a car full of skinnys onto the shoulder of the highway because I didn't like thier looks and they were trying to skinny thier way in front of me.
All the while not wearing any mask.
Loaded
50 test bullets in 0.005 depth increments on a dillon. Tumbled another 100.
Played with grandkids and brought them back to my house to spend the nite.
Ran a car full of skinnys onto the shoulder of the highway because I didn't like thier looks and they were trying to skinny thier way in front of me.
All the while not wearing any mask.
