Some say they're tricky to get to shoot or their barrels don't "like" the TMK... The Douglas tube on my old MK12 Mod 0 absolutely loved them, had very consistent hits out to 900 with the 77s in good conditions.
HOME DEFENSE: Handgun versus Small Frame AR
- Thread starter MaximusDecimusMeidius
- Start date
Some say they're tricky to get to shoot or their barrels don't "like" the TMK... The Douglas tube on my old MK12 Mod 0 absolutely loved them, had very consistent hits out to 900 with the 77s in good conditions.
Not when it comes to home defense. I'll be wearing a thong then.
I've also lost 40 lbs since the pink shorts video so I look better in a thong
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That is exactly what is in my ready mag: Hornady TAP 53 gr
Given how bad most people actually are with one I agree. But there are exceptions.
Certainly not for me, but they seem to sell well to the cool guy types.
The longer barrels sell to the competition guys, although the Dissidents are still the hot ticket in the go fast shotgun sphere.
You don’t think that is still deadly at indoor home defense ranges ?
It might be, but I’m not plunking down $5K on a gun I expect to use then lose to a police evidence locker. And, outside of that narrow use, it’s a toy. Hell, it’s more than 2x a Beretta 1301.
The 8.6 Blackout 3 twist... which has little practical purpose but low velocity subs imo. The 6.5 twist is not restricted and much more accurate.
But on to the subject a defensive gun inside the house...And I loaded up these on purpose after destroying the muzzle brake and chronograph, with one of their recommended loads when the barrels first came out...
8.6 Blkout 3 twist only... No muzzle devices attached unless you want them destroyed.
No bystanders to the sides of your muzzle ...seriously for safety. Everyone must be behind you. But will be subject to breathing lead dust.
Jacketed lead bullets at max velocity.
Shoot from 2 feet at a large cardboard box...bullet blows up as soon as it leaves the confines of the barrel.
Bullet fragments hit top bottom and outsides of the large cardboard box.
A much larger pattern than any shotgun plus you get 20 rds.
From 5 feet one shot would cover both sides of a hall and top to bottom.
It won't penetrate through the walls.
The intruder would be blinded, with shrapnel from head to toe.
He may not die the first shot, and the lead ingestion would likely kill him... velocities are around 2000 fps.
It's probably against the rules of war for cruel and unusual punishment.
But on to the subject a defensive gun inside the house...And I loaded up these on purpose after destroying the muzzle brake and chronograph, with one of their recommended loads when the barrels first came out...
8.6 Blkout 3 twist only... No muzzle devices attached unless you want them destroyed.
No bystanders to the sides of your muzzle ...seriously for safety. Everyone must be behind you. But will be subject to breathing lead dust.
Jacketed lead bullets at max velocity.
Shoot from 2 feet at a large cardboard box...bullet blows up as soon as it leaves the confines of the barrel.
Bullet fragments hit top bottom and outsides of the large cardboard box.
A much larger pattern than any shotgun plus you get 20 rds.
From 5 feet one shot would cover both sides of a hall and top to bottom.
It won't penetrate through the walls.
The intruder would be blinded, with shrapnel from head to toe.
He may not die the first shot, and the lead ingestion would likely kill him... velocities are around 2000 fps.
It's probably against the rules of war for cruel and unusual punishment.
Attachments
My buddy had the rare mechanical AD with a Smith & Wesson Model 659, the day after I took and passed the National Registry for EMT in the Special Operations Combat Medic Course.
He was in the 18B course, and I was in SFMS. Ha ha!
He was my former Recon Team Leader from Fort Lewis. I had PCS’d to Bragg before him, and he came later for 18B.
Anyway, I was just sitting there at his house watching TV, when BAM!
I felt muzzle blast in my direction, ears ringing, then he looked at me and asked, “Are you hit?"
I looked down at my pants and saw holes lined up exactly at the Right lateral side of my Right knee, and a corresponding hole in my left leg, just below the knee. I checked the medial side of my right knee, and also saw a hole. Then checked the lateral side of my left leg, and also saw a hole. All were perfectly aligned with each other.
I immediately went into denial, because I never felt it hit me. “Nah, this can’t be right."
Meanwhile the shag carpet looked like a Godfather execution scene, with blood forming its own little flood into the shag fibers as if there was no shag.
He had scissors on the top of his TV for some reason, so I said, “Hand me the scissors and call 911."
I immediately cut and exposed each bullet hole as we had trained daily at SOMTB, and there were 4 drinking fountain-like heavy veinous blood faucets pouring out onto the floor like a cartoon. I was thinking, “Man, this is not cool, but I can bleed like this for about 4 hours, so I’m good. Womack Army Medical Center and Cape Fear Regional are both only about 5-8 minutes away."
His brother was asleep in the other room and rushed in, wiping the sleep from his eyes after having heard the commotion. He lost it mentally at the site, whereas my buddy and I were totally calm, cool-headed, and collected handling the bleeding control. We had to calm his brother down. It was kinda funny.
EMS took me to Womack, and one of my other buddies from the course (a Navy Corpsman assigned to Force Recon) was doing his final hospital rotations in the ER there. When the doors to the ER broke open from my gurney hitting them, he was the first face I saw, which helped. He knew the ER Doc (former 18D who went medical officer route), the orthopedic people, and briefed me on everyone personally, telling me they were actually squared away, so I was in good hands.
Injuries were:
Cracked lateral epicondyle of the R femur, not displaced
Thru-and-thru GSW R knee
Thru-and-thru left leg
Clipped the nerve that innervates my left big toe for extension, but I still had flexion (could push down, but not pull it up)
Fragmented my left fibula, taking a semicircular bite out of it
They put me under, debrided the wounds, put me in recovery, then sent me back with my buddy to be taken care of. Took me 6 months of physical therapy to recover. I was back on jump status and doing regular PT after the 6 months, and had a really great recovery. I just did what the Physical Therapists told me to, as well as some of my SFMS instructors who had experience with injuries like that. One of them was Frank Antenori, who was one of the exceptional instructors there.
We didn’t know about the S&W 659, but found out it was recalled. The de-cocking mechanism was known for not de-cocking the hammer, then leaving it cocked and held by some mechanical function known only to God. The hammer could then just drop whenever it felt like it or the weapon was slightly bumped.
I checked it out myself when I got out of the hospital, and sure enough, it would just drop with a light tap of the slide. Always keep a firearm pointed in safe direction.
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The main skill sets for HD with a blaster are:
Situational Awareness of your home and entrance points/background/choke points/strong points
TGT discrimination/PID
Being able to manage white light in the house in the dark
A Zone (high-level CQ marksmanship) hits on movers at night in the house with a weapon light and your sighting system(s)
With 5.56, count on shooting 5-7 times to put someone down.
Any time I run a course, I try to work night fire into it.
Even in DM courses. I love doing night/pistol in the Cowboy Town, the main one I use having 18 different bays, with faux siding construction and several 2-level structures, windows, bars, doors, outhouses, stair cases, etc.
I enjoy shooting at night the most.
Situational Awareness of your home and entrance points/background/choke points/strong points
TGT discrimination/PID
Being able to manage white light in the house in the dark
A Zone (high-level CQ marksmanship) hits on movers at night in the house with a weapon light and your sighting system(s)
With 5.56, count on shooting 5-7 times to put someone down.
Any time I run a course, I try to work night fire into it.
Even in DM courses. I love doing night/pistol in the Cowboy Town, the main one I use having 18 different bays, with faux siding construction and several 2-level structures, windows, bars, doors, outhouses, stair cases, etc.
I enjoy shooting at night the most.
Wild story!!
Glad it worked out that well for you.
Will use that story teaching classes (both shooting and medical stuff, ER and prehospital education for a level 1 trauma center) if thats alright with you.
Nowadays that would net you a couple tourniquets applied.
Glad it worked out that well for you.
Will use that story teaching classes (both shooting and medical stuff, ER and prehospital education for a level 1 trauma center) if thats alright with you.
Nowadays that would net you a couple tourniquets applied.
Every time I run a course, it’s part of my safety brief. The most important thing is everyone leave with the same number of holes they showed up with.
It also brings up something I don’t see many people talking about, and that is getting your mindset right for the likelihood that you will probably take hits in a gunfight. Don’t let strikes to you stop you from stopping the fight if you can still carry on.
If you’re protecting your family and can still fight, don’t hesitate and allow a lull in fire to give intruders the upper hand.
Reminds me of that recent incident where the guy stood right in the doorway waiting for the burglar/intruder to come through the door and exchange gunfire on equal footing with each other. His wife caught a round to the back while she was sleeping, and the defender caught a round to the foot.
If he had offset, he could have head-shot the intruder and ended it instantly, rather than be squared-up on him when he opened the door. He also could look into hardening his home to deter/prevent entrance.
Both, and what I mean is I leave my gun safe unlocked at night, AR carbine and 12ga are up front to grab. G45 pistol full of 124gr HST on my night stand… I’ll take the pistol until I can grab the rifle or shotgun then toss it to my wife while I do whatever I think I need to and she’s calling the police and or securing the kids, or both… all situational dependent.
Bet it shoots a fireball like this thing…
Post in thread 'Funny & awesome pics, vids and memes thread (work safe, no nudity)'
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ead-work-safe-no-nudity.6926439/post-12035467
I didn't catch that I thought 5"barrelled 12g going to be loud inside.
I’ve talked with guys who only survived a gunfight because the guy trying to kill them ran to slide lock first.
One particular incident involved a young man with a G21 (13rd .45 ACP) who lost against a cop with a G22 (15rd .40 S&W).
The kid (18yr-old) started off the encounter by shooting the cop in the face with the .45 ACP. Cop thought he had cold-cocked him with his fist, not realizing he just took a 230gr to the jaw.
The assailant then stood over the cop (who was on his back on the ground), and shot him execution-style 2 more times to the chest (cop was wearing armor).
The kid then ran off, the cop sat up, and shot him. As the kid was taking hits, he turned around and closed the distance to finish off the cop, but ran to slide lock. The cop ran to slide lock as well.
Cop survived, perpetrator did not.
The kid was the son of another retired cop, and his mom worked in the bank, very good parents who raised him right. He just wanted to play gangsta with his stupid friends and shoplifted something from the mall, while carrying a stolen G21.
Kid had grown up playing football, was very stocky and in great shape, could take a lot of punishment/high pain tolerance.
Revolvers don’t seem like good fight-stopping tools in today’s world, where semi-autos are awash in the market. I feel like we were already at that conclusion in the 1980s.
Intruders are wearing armor more and more as well, and raiding homes in numbers, especially the illegal foreign gangs.
Serious question, what about a suppressed SBR 9mm AR?
Serious considering going this direction, 8" barrel. I am also considering a 2011 9mm, only because of no hoops like the SBR.
FTR, I built a 16" 9mm AR several years ago.
Thanks, Darryle
Serious considering going this direction, 8" barrel. I am also considering a 2011 9mm, only because of no hoops like the SBR.
FTR, I built a 16" 9mm AR several years ago.
Thanks, Darryle
Or a 9mm plus P 124 gr HP at 1600 fps from an AR 15 33 rds available, with binary trigger to really put down the lead...close to full auto if ya practice.
There is a 50 gr copper deep HP that runs over 2600 fps in 9mm AR with super high capacity and little recoil...penetration? Good at close range inside... maybe.
There are too many options for the OP to use to list ,some practical tactical some not for home defense . At 71 years old this old fudd prefers 357 [his n hers] snubskis for CC and personal protection [room duty] . Next level up are magazine fed mikhail's 7.62x39 [his n hers] , godzilla assault gets 300 win mag [me only] . After that its stuff that has to be put together before use ........and i gadda remember where all the parts are hid ..........
One of my friends has this in FA. It’s a fun toy, but I was surprised how in effective it was on fur.
Emptied an entire drum into a 300lb boar about 5 feet off of the front right tire of the side by side. Body, head, whatever. Double 00 wasn’t enough. Required a rifle round to the head.
More reason that 556 > 12ga > handgun cartridges
Better than nothing, but they might not sense they’re being shot and will have more time to focus on shooting you if they’re committed.
I prefer things that rapidly shut a dude down, especially a hardened character who might have walked over a thousand miles to get into the US, or comes from a harsh military background.
Velocity and/or bullet construction are king in that conversation about terminal performance.
We aren’t counting on one-shot drops either, but rapid strings of fire into the vitals in close quarters, usually in low-light settings.
Have you ever seen 69gr TMK performance?
Seems like velocity and same construction would favor the 69gr TMK in the house, especially from shorter barrels.
I just checked some gel tests with both from 11.5” barrels and they both expanded similarly, with 77gr penetrating deeper.
SW340PD [my fav.] and a python 2.5 [wifes] ....no safeties ,no magazines ,no rackin, no lights and no cell phone holder.....jus put front sight on center mass at bad breath range and detonate twice . The 340 has the additional effect of ingesting gas into the wound plus a good chance of setting the hoodrat on fire from its 1.88 barrel ......IT IS A BRUTAL WEAPON TO FIRE MAGNUMS and it aint no 5 aisle wallymart gun fighter .
I used to own a 340PD. It was indeed a handful. The 640 Pro being all stainless steel is more comfortable. I like the sights better too.
-Stan
Only hits count.
I have my preferences in "stopping power," but ensure I can make first and repeated round hits.
This is why I discourage friends from buying their wives 357 revolvers if the wife doesn't practice (>100 rounds a quarter) with the ammo they will use to defend the homestead. An untrained soul with any weapon is a disaster waiting to happen, and revolvers are hard to learn to shoot. And, you have to break it open to reload. And, speed loaders are hard to learn.
I have a friend that bought his wife a 357 revolver because a "Glock is too hard for her to learn how to clear a jam." What nonsense. After seven misses, she's unarmed and the other guy is pissed at being shot at. And, you have to break it open to reload. And, speed loaders are harder to learn, than Tap-Rack-Bang.
My sister has a 22LR upper on a Glock 19 for practice and a 9mm upper for the bedroom. She shoots 500 rounds of 22 for every 100 rounds of 9mm, but her husband insists she learn the 9mm so she doesn't think she blew the gun up when she's actually firing in the house. This is the way.
I've talked lots of grandpas into arming grandma with a 22WMR pistol and a 30 round mag after taking them to the range and letting granny shoot a 9mm, then the 22 WMR. Much smaller groups, and granny wants to go shooting more often.
When grandpa says, "a 22 won't hurt anyone!" I politely ask them to stand back 20 feet, the average across the bedroom shot, and let granny shoot them a few times and report back to me. No takers yet.
A friend has a 5.7 FN, and I can't wait to turn the grannies loose with one of them!
To quote Clit Smith "You can't miss me fast enough to stop me."
I have my preferences in "stopping power," but ensure I can make first and repeated round hits.
This is why I discourage friends from buying their wives 357 revolvers if the wife doesn't practice (>100 rounds a quarter) with the ammo they will use to defend the homestead. An untrained soul with any weapon is a disaster waiting to happen, and revolvers are hard to learn to shoot. And, you have to break it open to reload. And, speed loaders are hard to learn.
I have a friend that bought his wife a 357 revolver because a "Glock is too hard for her to learn how to clear a jam." What nonsense. After seven misses, she's unarmed and the other guy is pissed at being shot at. And, you have to break it open to reload. And, speed loaders are harder to learn, than Tap-Rack-Bang.
My sister has a 22LR upper on a Glock 19 for practice and a 9mm upper for the bedroom. She shoots 500 rounds of 22 for every 100 rounds of 9mm, but her husband insists she learn the 9mm so she doesn't think she blew the gun up when she's actually firing in the house. This is the way.
I've talked lots of grandpas into arming grandma with a 22WMR pistol and a 30 round mag after taking them to the range and letting granny shoot a 9mm, then the 22 WMR. Much smaller groups, and granny wants to go shooting more often.
When grandpa says, "a 22 won't hurt anyone!" I politely ask them to stand back 20 feet, the average across the bedroom shot, and let granny shoot them a few times and report back to me. No takers yet.
A friend has a 5.7 FN, and I can't wait to turn the grannies loose with one of them!
To quote Clit Smith "You can't miss me fast enough to stop me."
I don't know how you can stand to talk to the general public (even if they are friends or family) about guns or shooting.
The amount of stupidity I see and hear at my local gun club is enough to make me keep my mouth shut and mind my own business.
Man where do you guys live where you need multiple reloads and mag dumps?
most personal defense shootings are 2 rounds by the home owner from what i read so yeah these folks need a moving van not a weapon
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