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Home protection Rifle
- Thread starter HOGGHEAD
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Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juliomorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I perfer a shotgun loaded with turkey loads for first 2 shots then buck shot, I have witnessed what bird shot does to a human body at less than 30' twice. It is not pretty both were torso hits and they both dropped basically where they were standing when shot.
If i was going to use an ar I would want to load it with light JHPs like TAPS or the WW white box 45 grs to lesson over penetration. I wouldn't go with anything special just a simple STag or Bushy with a factory trigger and no mall ninja add ons except a light. </div></div>
Since you were present you should be able to elaborate on the status of these individuals after the fact.
I'm pretty sure you would drop, I would drop, and most anyone not overcome with adrenalin or pumped full of drugs would drop after being shot at close range with birdshot.
The point is, other than a nasty surface wound, in no way, shape or form does birdshot have enough penetration to completely incapacitate a determined individual.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juliomorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I perfer a shotgun loaded with turkey loads for first 2 shots then buck shot, I have witnessed what bird shot does to a human body at less than 30' twice. It is not pretty both were torso hits and they both dropped basically where they were standing when shot.
If i was going to use an ar I would want to load it with light JHPs like TAPS or the WW white box 45 grs to lesson over penetration. I wouldn't go with anything special just a simple STag or Bushy with a factory trigger and no mall ninja add ons except a light. </div></div>
Since you were present you should be able to elaborate on the status of these individuals after the fact.
I'm pretty sure you would drop, I would drop, and most anyone not overcome with adrenalin or pumped full of drugs would drop after being shot at close range with birdshot.
The point is, other than a nasty surface wound, in no way, shape or form does birdshot have enough penetration to completely incapacitate a determined individual.
Re: Home protection Rifle
Nice hijack of the thread guys. He said he wanted an ar-15 not a shotgun or a handgun.
Nice hijack of the thread guys. He said he wanted an ar-15 not a shotgun or a handgun.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">home protection rifle is called a shotgun
just sayin </div></div>
First off I own a plethera of shotguns and handguns.
Second I live on a farm by myself in the middle of 300 acres. I have no neighbors.
I posted this in hopes of getting some good solid answers from some gus who knew about AR-15 rifles. Not a bunch of know it all's who actually know nothing of my situation. And the wants and needs of a friearm that I want to have at my disposal. Heck I will probably be killing more coyotes off the calves than shooting at humans. But I did not feel the need to explain all that. I just assumed my thread would be taken seriously. I guess I was wrong about that one!!
Thanks for the little bit of help that was presented in this thread. But I guess some times we all go off topic. But SHHEEESSSSHHHHH. Tom.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">home protection rifle is called a shotgun
just sayin </div></div>
First off I own a plethera of shotguns and handguns.
Second I live on a farm by myself in the middle of 300 acres. I have no neighbors.
I posted this in hopes of getting some good solid answers from some gus who knew about AR-15 rifles. Not a bunch of know it all's who actually know nothing of my situation. And the wants and needs of a friearm that I want to have at my disposal. Heck I will probably be killing more coyotes off the calves than shooting at humans. But I did not feel the need to explain all that. I just assumed my thread would be taken seriously. I guess I was wrong about that one!!
Thanks for the little bit of help that was presented in this thread. But I guess some times we all go off topic. But SHHEEESSSSHHHHH. Tom.
Re: Home protection Rifle
Whatever weapon I advocate, one thing a bad guy freaks over is a dog in the darkness. He doesn't know if the dog is mean or a pussy. He does know there's a 99% chance the dog woke you up and now he has another unknown....what are you armed with?
With all due respect, I understand a lot of people can't have dogs. Either where they live or are alergic to them. If you can it's worth it. Mine have woken me up a few times to 'square things away'.
And, FWIW, Lonewolf, excellent statement of having a plan to execute and a backup as the 'plan' never goes according to the 'plan'.
Whatever weapon I advocate, one thing a bad guy freaks over is a dog in the darkness. He doesn't know if the dog is mean or a pussy. He does know there's a 99% chance the dog woke you up and now he has another unknown....what are you armed with?
With all due respect, I understand a lot of people can't have dogs. Either where they live or are alergic to them. If you can it's worth it. Mine have woken me up a few times to 'square things away'.
And, FWIW, Lonewolf, excellent statement of having a plan to execute and a backup as the 'plan' never goes according to the 'plan'.
Re: Home protection Rifle
Personally if someone makes it past my Doberman and has the audacity to forcibly enter my home while I'm in it, I'm going to use something that will make a nice big exit wound. The more ragged holes he has to bleed out of the better. Plus it makes a nice place to secure a chain to hang him from my oak tree...Vultures need to eat too.
Personally if someone makes it past my Doberman and has the audacity to forcibly enter my home while I'm in it, I'm going to use something that will make a nice big exit wound. The more ragged holes he has to bleed out of the better. Plus it makes a nice place to secure a chain to hang him from my oak tree...Vultures need to eat too.
Re: Home protection Rifle
I keep a big ol' can of this next to the bed:
This allows me to shoot first, regardless if it is the kid, dog, a house guest or bad guy.
As soon as the can is dropped the 870 is in my hands & if it is a BG I'll follow it with a few rounds of 00.
I keep a big ol' can of this next to the bed:
This allows me to shoot first, regardless if it is the kid, dog, a house guest or bad guy.
As soon as the can is dropped the 870 is in my hands & if it is a BG I'll follow it with a few rounds of 00.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....the AR however could be construed as an offensive tool...... </div></div>
LOL!!! Are you fucking serious?
I honestly don't give a shit about appearances. Someone illegally in my house is bought and paid for courtesy of my state's castle doctrine law.
HE, the intruder, is automatically presumed as a matter of law to be in my dwelling to cause death or severe injury. How I take him down after I establish that he is a threat is immaterial.</div></div>
yeah i am fucking serious......i guess you never had your wiz-bang -go-fast uber hi-speed lowdrag boolit launcher that cost more than the vehicle you drive confiscated after the hammer went down after the ritious shooting in your humble abode......did you sport....?
or have anything go to the grand jury while your hi-dollar johnson get finger fucked at the local PD.......just sayin
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....the AR however could be construed as an offensive tool...... </div></div>
LOL!!! Are you fucking serious?
I honestly don't give a shit about appearances. Someone illegally in my house is bought and paid for courtesy of my state's castle doctrine law.
HE, the intruder, is automatically presumed as a matter of law to be in my dwelling to cause death or severe injury. How I take him down after I establish that he is a threat is immaterial.</div></div>
yeah i am fucking serious......i guess you never had your wiz-bang -go-fast uber hi-speed lowdrag boolit launcher that cost more than the vehicle you drive confiscated after the hammer went down after the ritious shooting in your humble abode......did you sport....?
or have anything go to the grand jury while your hi-dollar johnson get finger fucked at the local PD.......just sayin
Re: Home protection Rifle
Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.
Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whatever weapon I advocate, one thing a bad guy freaks over is a dog in the darkness.</div></div>
Not necessarily. A lot of people assume that whomever is going to break into their house or do something to them is a total stranger but that's not always the case. Oftentimes the guy who breaks into your garage and steals your tools is someone who has been to your house (clean out the gutters, friend of a friend, etc) and chances are he made buddies with the dog while he was there casing the place.
Also, if you have a "party house" where people are always coming and going the dog probably won't give a shit when people come in at 2am and snoop around. I know of one house where I went to party all the time in College where the owner was proud of his huge pitbull dog and how it was a great guard dog. Well when his house got robbed they took the dog too.
So if you have a dog that's a guard dog which actually barks at people that's great but they don't work all the time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whatever weapon I advocate, one thing a bad guy freaks over is a dog in the darkness.</div></div>
Not necessarily. A lot of people assume that whomever is going to break into their house or do something to them is a total stranger but that's not always the case. Oftentimes the guy who breaks into your garage and steals your tools is someone who has been to your house (clean out the gutters, friend of a friend, etc) and chances are he made buddies with the dog while he was there casing the place.
Also, if you have a "party house" where people are always coming and going the dog probably won't give a shit when people come in at 2am and snoop around. I know of one house where I went to party all the time in College where the owner was proud of his huge pitbull dog and how it was a great guard dog. Well when his house got robbed they took the dog too.
So if you have a dog that's a guard dog which actually barks at people that's great but they don't work all the time.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NUTT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I keep a big ol' can of this next to the bed:
</div></div>
Keep an eye on the expiration date, I had some in my bike pack that when I went to use it on a dog it dribbled all over my hand instead of spraying him.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NUTT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I keep a big ol' can of this next to the bed:
</div></div>
Keep an eye on the expiration date, I had some in my bike pack that when I went to use it on a dog it dribbled all over my hand instead of spraying him.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.</div></div>
i just pee'd a little im so excited.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.</div></div>
i just pee'd a little im so excited.......
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.</div></div>
i just pee'd a little im so excited.......</div></div>
yeah.......the folks that can't fucking read....as in there are not TWO "T's" in boltripper.......and i'm the ass and grow up.....
no rest for the weary ....
kmart got depends on special this week to take care of all you bed wetters out there......
just sayin
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.</div></div>
i just pee'd a little im so excited.......</div></div>
yeah.......the folks that can't fucking read....as in there are not TWO "T's" in boltripper.......and i'm the ass and grow up.....
no rest for the weary ....
kmart got depends on special this week to take care of all you bed wetters out there......
just sayin
Re: Home protection Rifle
Lonewolf did a great job with his reply.
I'm pretty well trained on an AR, so that's what I use. I won't wonder how to fix a malfunction and can get the weapon up pretty quickly. It's what I'm familiar with so it's what I roll with--public perceptions be damned.
You're rolling with irons and that's fine--but I prefer an aimpoint red dot as I can keep it on for a couple of years without swapping the batteries (I like the comp m4 for it's larger 30mm tube and it's track record of reliability...and it's 7 year battery life...).
Here's one thing I would highly recommend though: Go with a 14.5" permanently pinned barrel. FWIW, my apartment has a narrow stair way, and in order to point and lean out of tight areas, that 1.5" is crucial to my maneuverability. My 16" carbine is too long and my barrel will bump the walls if I try to swing it around. (My personal experience--yours may differ).
Finally if you're mechanically inclined, installing a trigger is not too difficult. I'd purchase the rifle and research the trigger and add it in separately. I really like my RRA 2 Stage Match triggers, but they're reputed to fail after a while (something unacceptable for life and death, imho). My HD rifles run with the standard GI triggers--and I've made off hand shots on man-sized steel at 200 yards.
A basic carbine will run you about $850-$1,200 depending on the 'quality' of your parts. Both of my RRA 2 stage match triggers have exhibited 'walk' on me, so even though RRAs fit your parameters, I'm hesitant to recommend them.
Hope this helped...>_<
Lonewolf did a great job with his reply.
I'm pretty well trained on an AR, so that's what I use. I won't wonder how to fix a malfunction and can get the weapon up pretty quickly. It's what I'm familiar with so it's what I roll with--public perceptions be damned.
You're rolling with irons and that's fine--but I prefer an aimpoint red dot as I can keep it on for a couple of years without swapping the batteries (I like the comp m4 for it's larger 30mm tube and it's track record of reliability...and it's 7 year battery life...).
Here's one thing I would highly recommend though: Go with a 14.5" permanently pinned barrel. FWIW, my apartment has a narrow stair way, and in order to point and lean out of tight areas, that 1.5" is crucial to my maneuverability. My 16" carbine is too long and my barrel will bump the walls if I try to swing it around. (My personal experience--yours may differ).
Finally if you're mechanically inclined, installing a trigger is not too difficult. I'd purchase the rifle and research the trigger and add it in separately. I really like my RRA 2 Stage Match triggers, but they're reputed to fail after a while (something unacceptable for life and death, imho). My HD rifles run with the standard GI triggers--and I've made off hand shots on man-sized steel at 200 yards.
A basic carbine will run you about $850-$1,200 depending on the 'quality' of your parts. Both of my RRA 2 stage match triggers have exhibited 'walk' on me, so even though RRAs fit your parameters, I'm hesitant to recommend them.
Hope this helped...>_<
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.</div></div>
i just pee'd a little im so excited.......</div></div>
yeah.......the folks that can't fucking read....as in there are not TWO "T's" in boltripper.......and i'm the ass and grow up.....
no rest for the weary ....
kmart got depends on special this week to take care of all you bed wetters out there......
just sayin </div></div>
You cussed the most. So I guess that makes you the most grown up in this conversation. SHHEEESSSSHHHHH...........Tom.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.</div></div>
i just pee'd a little im so excited.......</div></div>
yeah.......the folks that can't fucking read....as in there are not TWO "T's" in boltripper.......and i'm the ass and grow up.....
no rest for the weary ....
kmart got depends on special this week to take care of all you bed wetters out there......
just sayin </div></div>
You cussed the most. So I guess that makes you the most grown up in this conversation. SHHEEESSSSHHHHH...........Tom.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.</div></div>
i just pee'd a little im so excited.......</div></div>
yeah.......the folks that can't fucking read....as in there are not TWO "T's" in boltripper.......and i'm the ass and grow up.....
no rest for the weary ....
kmart got depends on special this week to take care of all you bed wetters out there......
just sayin </div></div>
You cussed the most. So I guess that makes you the most grown up in this conversation. SHHEEESSSSHHHHH...........Tom.
</div></div>
Are you guys gonna continue to beat each other off or will you (HOGGHEAD) start listenening? you've been given the advice that you asked for!!! it was YOU who started this thread. deal with the feedback, life isn't sunshine and rainbows so get the fuck over your cocky attitude. most of these guys here have had to defend something or another with one of the mentioned weapons on here. I hope one of the mods kicks your balls up around your neck for being this fucking bitchy. go get some tampons and leave it be.
<span style="color: #33CC00">Mike</span>, <span style="color: #33CC00">jasonk</span>, <span style="color: #33CC00">Chiller</span>, <span style="color: #FF0000">Lowlight</span>; somebody lock this thread so it doesn't turn into even more of a bitchslapping contest.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HOGGHEAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bolt Tripper why are you such an ass?? Grow up. What does any of that have to do with the original post?? Tom.</div></div>
i just pee'd a little im so excited.......</div></div>
yeah.......the folks that can't fucking read....as in there are not TWO "T's" in boltripper.......and i'm the ass and grow up.....
no rest for the weary ....
kmart got depends on special this week to take care of all you bed wetters out there......
just sayin </div></div>
You cussed the most. So I guess that makes you the most grown up in this conversation. SHHEEESSSSHHHHH...........Tom.
</div></div>
Are you guys gonna continue to beat each other off or will you (HOGGHEAD) start listenening? you've been given the advice that you asked for!!! it was YOU who started this thread. deal with the feedback, life isn't sunshine and rainbows so get the fuck over your cocky attitude. most of these guys here have had to defend something or another with one of the mentioned weapons on here. I hope one of the mods kicks your balls up around your neck for being this fucking bitchy. go get some tampons and leave it be.
<span style="color: #33CC00">Mike</span>, <span style="color: #33CC00">jasonk</span>, <span style="color: #33CC00">Chiller</span>, <span style="color: #FF0000">Lowlight</span>; somebody lock this thread so it doesn't turn into even more of a bitchslapping contest.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a lot of ignorance in this thread.
With judicious choices in ammunition such as Hornady 55 grain TAP, an AR15 is a perfectly viable home defense rifle even in crowded urban or suburban areas.
Anyone who thinks that anti-personnel shotgun ammo is somehow "safe" to use in a home without regards to overpenetration needs to cruise on over to the box o'truth and get an education on the subject.
To answer the OP, my choice is a mutt that I slapped together. Complete DPMS lower, swapped stock DPMS trigger for two-stage Rock River trigger tuned by White Oak Precision, basic LMT 16" carbine flat top upper with standard front sight, Larue rear sight, and Aimpoint CompC in Larue mount.
The rear sight is fixed in the up position and it co-witnesses with the front on the lower third of the optical sight. When aiming with the irons and the optic is switched on, the dot is on top of the front sight post.</div></div>
Surprised you didnt go with a counter sniper scope.
Ever seen what happens when you shoot a .223 through drywall? Including a 55gr TAP?
Take some gypsum board to the range sometime, cut it into squares and stand them up. Fire at it. Then come back and you can let us know how many it went through before it stopped.
Oh look I can save you some time...
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html
Check out the testing that was done with TAP 75% down the page. The guy only took three out but it penetrated all 3. If I fire a rifle through the hallway in my house, thats really all it will take is 2 or 3 and that bullet is out in the environment.</div></div>
Oddball, good artical. Good to see someone took there time and covered multipal calabers and ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a lot of ignorance in this thread.
With judicious choices in ammunition such as Hornady 55 grain TAP, an AR15 is a perfectly viable home defense rifle even in crowded urban or suburban areas.
Anyone who thinks that anti-personnel shotgun ammo is somehow "safe" to use in a home without regards to overpenetration needs to cruise on over to the box o'truth and get an education on the subject.
To answer the OP, my choice is a mutt that I slapped together. Complete DPMS lower, swapped stock DPMS trigger for two-stage Rock River trigger tuned by White Oak Precision, basic LMT 16" carbine flat top upper with standard front sight, Larue rear sight, and Aimpoint CompC in Larue mount.
The rear sight is fixed in the up position and it co-witnesses with the front on the lower third of the optical sight. When aiming with the irons and the optic is switched on, the dot is on top of the front sight post.</div></div>
Surprised you didnt go with a counter sniper scope.
Ever seen what happens when you shoot a .223 through drywall? Including a 55gr TAP?
Take some gypsum board to the range sometime, cut it into squares and stand them up. Fire at it. Then come back and you can let us know how many it went through before it stopped.
Oh look I can save you some time...
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html
Check out the testing that was done with TAP 75% down the page. The guy only took three out but it penetrated all 3. If I fire a rifle through the hallway in my house, thats really all it will take is 2 or 3 and that bullet is out in the environment.</div></div>
Oddball, good artical. Good to see someone took there time and covered multipal calabers and ammo.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juliomorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I perfer a shotgun loaded with turkey loads for first 2 shots then buck shot, I have witnessed what bird shot does to a human body at less than 30' twice. It is not pretty both were torso hits and they both dropped basically where they were standing when shot.
If i was going to use an ar I would want to load it with light JHPs like TAPS or the WW white box 45 grs to lesson over penetration. I wouldn't go with anything special just a simple STag or Bushy with a factory trigger and no mall ninja add ons except a light. </div></div>
Since you were present you should be able to elaborate on the status of these individuals after the fact.
I'm pretty sure you would drop, I would drop, and most anyone not overcome with adrenalin or pumped full of drugs would drop after being shot at close range with birdshot.
The point is, other than a nasty surface wound, in no way, shape or form does birdshot have enough penetration to completely incapacitate a determined individual. </div></div>
I agree, you will not get 6 inches of penetration from birdshot on a ballistic gel test shot at 10 feet. Regarding a shotgun, if you actually test your shotguns with buck shot at 25feet you'll find the "spread" is in inches, the idea that you just point in the general direction and the huge spread will get the bad guy just does not stand up to any testing at all-it is BS. At close range you may as well be shooting slugs from your 12ga, and the effect on target will be final. If you're worried about shoot through, use varmint type bullets, TNT's really come apart when they hit something, badguys, or walls, and as you are going to be shooting varmits, one size fits all. My thoughts are you need a good dog to keep the coyotes at bay, and the badguys out of the house, and if not out, at least provide an advance warning. The assumption that only one badguy is going to be breaking in to rob your home is a problem, today's criminals are ganged-up, if you live "well out of town", it is not likely that a junkie, walking by, decides to break in and steal your TV. You're more likely to be a victim of a group, with a vehicle. A fence with a locked gate has a big effect on these type of fools.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juliomorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I perfer a shotgun loaded with turkey loads for first 2 shots then buck shot, I have witnessed what bird shot does to a human body at less than 30' twice. It is not pretty both were torso hits and they both dropped basically where they were standing when shot.
If i was going to use an ar I would want to load it with light JHPs like TAPS or the WW white box 45 grs to lesson over penetration. I wouldn't go with anything special just a simple STag or Bushy with a factory trigger and no mall ninja add ons except a light. </div></div>
Since you were present you should be able to elaborate on the status of these individuals after the fact.
I'm pretty sure you would drop, I would drop, and most anyone not overcome with adrenalin or pumped full of drugs would drop after being shot at close range with birdshot.
The point is, other than a nasty surface wound, in no way, shape or form does birdshot have enough penetration to completely incapacitate a determined individual. </div></div>
I agree, you will not get 6 inches of penetration from birdshot on a ballistic gel test shot at 10 feet. Regarding a shotgun, if you actually test your shotguns with buck shot at 25feet you'll find the "spread" is in inches, the idea that you just point in the general direction and the huge spread will get the bad guy just does not stand up to any testing at all-it is BS. At close range you may as well be shooting slugs from your 12ga, and the effect on target will be final. If you're worried about shoot through, use varmint type bullets, TNT's really come apart when they hit something, badguys, or walls, and as you are going to be shooting varmits, one size fits all. My thoughts are you need a good dog to keep the coyotes at bay, and the badguys out of the house, and if not out, at least provide an advance warning. The assumption that only one badguy is going to be breaking in to rob your home is a problem, today's criminals are ganged-up, if you live "well out of town", it is not likely that a junkie, walking by, decides to break in and steal your TV. You're more likely to be a victim of a group, with a vehicle. A fence with a locked gate has a big effect on these type of fools.
Re: Home protection Rifle
Thanks for the heads up on the Depends Bolt, always a wealth of information
.
To the OP, when you described your living situation you described mine. I keep a shorty Armalite with me almost all the time and within arms length when I sleep. For those that worry about over penetration my advice would be to not back up the person breaking into my house.
okie
Thanks for the heads up on the Depends Bolt, always a wealth of information
To the OP, when you described your living situation you described mine. I keep a shorty Armalite with me almost all the time and within arms length when I sleep. For those that worry about over penetration my advice would be to not back up the person breaking into my house.
okie
Re: Home protection Rifle
I mainly shoot 77 grain in my 5.56. A 1/8 barrel twist drives this round very accuratly. If you are getting a 16 inch bbl, which is what I shoot, I also recommend a mid length gas system. I believe it shoots smoother. The recoil doesn't feel as choppy as a carbine length gas system.
If you are going to be shooting coyotes with irons also I recommend installing a national match front sight post.
They are only about 12 dollars and will greatly enhance your ability to hit smaller targets at long range.
I also recommend a good 2 stage trigger. I like giessele's.
I use Giessele 2 stage triggers in all of my AR type weapons. 5.56 or 7.67. The reason I prefer 2 stage match triggers over single stage for dual purpose ARs is as follows.
This has been my experience:
When used in the CQB role a single stage trigger can be a hinderance. I have shot some single stage triggers rapidly while on the move and occasionally they have bump fired and pretty much gone cyclic. You don't really pull a single stage match trigger, you just touch it off. It doesn't take much to set it off, especially when wearing gloves. Shooting on the move at night indoors with furniture and adrenaline pumping, a single stage trigger may not be your best option.
On the other hand, a 2 stage trigger gives you some wiggle room. You have the additional slack in the 1st stage. This extra margin for error is important when shooting in a CQB mode. It is also a plus when shooting with gloves on. And you still have the precision of a single stage trigger once the slack has been pulled out. In my opinion it is the best of both worlds.
Shooting a 2 stage trigger also allows you to reset the trigger after every shot, so it somewhat mimics the trigger reset of your pistol. At least it does for me. I shoot a glock.
Once again these are my opinions.
I'm sure there are plenty of competent operators out there who advocate single stage triggers. And I know the 1911 has a single stage trigger and is a great combat gun. I think the reason single stage triggers in a pistol and rifle are different in a combat scenario are as follow:
When shooting a single stage trigger on the move with a pistol your arms and shoulders act as natural shock absorbers. Your pistol is only attached to your hand. So if you step hard or run into a chair or someone bumps you from behind you have that seperation of your pistol from your body.
When shooting a single stage trigger on the move with a rifle it is welded to your shoulder. Any heavy step, collision with foriegn objects or bumps from behind is instantly transfered to your shoulder, which is transfered to your rifle. If you were preparing to engage a tgt your round could be fired even a split second prematurely.
Sorry this is long winded, I Know the danger of making vague statements on this website.
Once again these are my opinions based on my experience.
I mainly shoot 77 grain in my 5.56. A 1/8 barrel twist drives this round very accuratly. If you are getting a 16 inch bbl, which is what I shoot, I also recommend a mid length gas system. I believe it shoots smoother. The recoil doesn't feel as choppy as a carbine length gas system.
If you are going to be shooting coyotes with irons also I recommend installing a national match front sight post.
They are only about 12 dollars and will greatly enhance your ability to hit smaller targets at long range.
I also recommend a good 2 stage trigger. I like giessele's.
I use Giessele 2 stage triggers in all of my AR type weapons. 5.56 or 7.67. The reason I prefer 2 stage match triggers over single stage for dual purpose ARs is as follows.
This has been my experience:
When used in the CQB role a single stage trigger can be a hinderance. I have shot some single stage triggers rapidly while on the move and occasionally they have bump fired and pretty much gone cyclic. You don't really pull a single stage match trigger, you just touch it off. It doesn't take much to set it off, especially when wearing gloves. Shooting on the move at night indoors with furniture and adrenaline pumping, a single stage trigger may not be your best option.
On the other hand, a 2 stage trigger gives you some wiggle room. You have the additional slack in the 1st stage. This extra margin for error is important when shooting in a CQB mode. It is also a plus when shooting with gloves on. And you still have the precision of a single stage trigger once the slack has been pulled out. In my opinion it is the best of both worlds.
Shooting a 2 stage trigger also allows you to reset the trigger after every shot, so it somewhat mimics the trigger reset of your pistol. At least it does for me. I shoot a glock.
Once again these are my opinions.
I'm sure there are plenty of competent operators out there who advocate single stage triggers. And I know the 1911 has a single stage trigger and is a great combat gun. I think the reason single stage triggers in a pistol and rifle are different in a combat scenario are as follow:
When shooting a single stage trigger on the move with a pistol your arms and shoulders act as natural shock absorbers. Your pistol is only attached to your hand. So if you step hard or run into a chair or someone bumps you from behind you have that seperation of your pistol from your body.
When shooting a single stage trigger on the move with a rifle it is welded to your shoulder. Any heavy step, collision with foriegn objects or bumps from behind is instantly transfered to your shoulder, which is transfered to your rifle. If you were preparing to engage a tgt your round could be fired even a split second prematurely.
Sorry this is long winded, I Know the danger of making vague statements on this website.
Once again these are my opinions based on my experience.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: drunkhumpinmonkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
</div></div>
Are you guys gonna continue to beat each other off or will you (HOGGHEAD) start listenening? you've been given the advice that you asked for!!! it was YOU who started this thread. deal with the feedback, life isn't sunshine and rainbows so get the fuck over your cocky attitude. most of these guys here have had to defend something or another with one of the mentioned weapons on here. I hope one of the mods kicks your balls up around your neck for being this fucking bitchy. go get some tampons and leave it be.
<span style="color: #33CC00">Mike</span>, <span style="color: #33CC00">jasonk</span>, <span style="color: #33CC00">Chiller</span>, <span style="color: #FF0000">Lowlight</span>; somebody lock this thread so it doesn't turn into even more of a bitchslapping contest. [/quote]
Some more nice language. I guess whoever cusses the most wins. Boy that sure is impressive speech. Thanks for the positive comments. Tom.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: drunkhumpinmonkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
</div></div>
Are you guys gonna continue to beat each other off or will you (HOGGHEAD) start listenening? you've been given the advice that you asked for!!! it was YOU who started this thread. deal with the feedback, life isn't sunshine and rainbows so get the fuck over your cocky attitude. most of these guys here have had to defend something or another with one of the mentioned weapons on here. I hope one of the mods kicks your balls up around your neck for being this fucking bitchy. go get some tampons and leave it be.
<span style="color: #33CC00">Mike</span>, <span style="color: #33CC00">jasonk</span>, <span style="color: #33CC00">Chiller</span>, <span style="color: #FF0000">Lowlight</span>; somebody lock this thread so it doesn't turn into even more of a bitchslapping contest. [/quote]
Some more nice language. I guess whoever cusses the most wins. Boy that sure is impressive speech. Thanks for the positive comments. Tom.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....the AR however could be construed as an offensive tool...... </div></div>
LOL!!! Are you fucking serious?
I honestly don't give a shit about appearances. Someone illegally in my house is bought and paid for courtesy of my state's castle doctrine law.
HE, the intruder, is automatically presumed as a matter of law to be in my dwelling to cause death or severe injury. How I take him down after I establish that he is a threat is immaterial.</div></div>
yeah i am fucking serious......i guess you never had your wiz-bang -go-fast uber hi-speed lowdrag boolit launcher that cost more than the vehicle you drive confiscated after the hammer went down after the ritious shooting in your humble abode......did you sport....?
or have anything go to the grand jury while your hi-dollar johnson get finger fucked at the local PD.......just sayin </div></div>
A) I have plenty of money to replace a rifle with. That's why I got a top notch education and a good paying professional job.
B) I don't live in Texas where every shoot must go to a GJ. Ohio's castle doctrine is pretty clear about who is presumed guilty in a home invasion. And the DA is not required to present a case to the GJ just because.
C) Even if the rifle got confiscated and I had to sit through a GJ, SFW? I won the first fight, and since I live a square life chances are better than good that I get a no bill.
PS, find me some case law where the choice of weapon made the difference in outcome of an otherwise righteous shoot. I'll wait.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: proneshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.....the AR however could be construed as an offensive tool...... </div></div>
LOL!!! Are you fucking serious?
I honestly don't give a shit about appearances. Someone illegally in my house is bought and paid for courtesy of my state's castle doctrine law.
HE, the intruder, is automatically presumed as a matter of law to be in my dwelling to cause death or severe injury. How I take him down after I establish that he is a threat is immaterial.</div></div>
yeah i am fucking serious......i guess you never had your wiz-bang -go-fast uber hi-speed lowdrag boolit launcher that cost more than the vehicle you drive confiscated after the hammer went down after the ritious shooting in your humble abode......did you sport....?
or have anything go to the grand jury while your hi-dollar johnson get finger fucked at the local PD.......just sayin </div></div>
A) I have plenty of money to replace a rifle with. That's why I got a top notch education and a good paying professional job.
B) I don't live in Texas where every shoot must go to a GJ. Ohio's castle doctrine is pretty clear about who is presumed guilty in a home invasion. And the DA is not required to present a case to the GJ just because.
C) Even if the rifle got confiscated and I had to sit through a GJ, SFW? I won the first fight, and since I live a square life chances are better than good that I get a no bill.
PS, find me some case law where the choice of weapon made the difference in outcome of an otherwise righteous shoot. I'll wait.
Re: Home protection Rifle
some missed the point .....
after any shooting/home invasion the gun gets confiscated.....
the media comes and do some ambush journalism on the home owner.....and always ALWAYS try to get the good guy to look bad.....
"why did you murder that young thug with an assault rifle?"
seen it happen here in Dallas........
so.......................do you want your $2,000.00 ar15dotcom special locked up in the pokie for however long.....?
or do you just go trot on down to the walmart and get a new 870 synthetic and call it good at $479.00 replacement ?
some missed the point .....
after any shooting/home invasion the gun gets confiscated.....
the media comes and do some ambush journalism on the home owner.....and always ALWAYS try to get the good guy to look bad.....
"why did you murder that young thug with an assault rifle?"
seen it happen here in Dallas........
so.......................do you want your $2,000.00 ar15dotcom special locked up in the pokie for however long.....?
or do you just go trot on down to the walmart and get a new 870 synthetic and call it good at $479.00 replacement ?
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some missed the point .....
after any shooting/home invasion the gun gets confiscated.....
the media comes and do some ambush journalism on the home owner.....and always ALWAYS try to get the good guy to look bad.....
"why did you murder that young thug with an assault rifle?"
seen it happen here in Dallas........
so.......................do you want your $2,000.00 ar15dotcom special locked up in the pokie for however long.....?
or do you just go trot on down to the walmart and get a new 870 synthetic and call it good at $479.00 replacement ? </div></div>
So let me get this straight. When your life is on the line, you will deliberatly grab an inferior weapon because your mind is already on the post shooting events?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some missed the point .....
after any shooting/home invasion the gun gets confiscated.....
the media comes and do some ambush journalism on the home owner.....and always ALWAYS try to get the good guy to look bad.....
"why did you murder that young thug with an assault rifle?"
seen it happen here in Dallas........
so.......................do you want your $2,000.00 ar15dotcom special locked up in the pokie for however long.....?
or do you just go trot on down to the walmart and get a new 870 synthetic and call it good at $479.00 replacement ? </div></div>
So let me get this straight. When your life is on the line, you will deliberatly grab an inferior weapon because your mind is already on the post shooting events?
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some missed the point .....
after any shooting/home invasion the gun gets confiscated.....
the media comes and do some ambush journalism on the home owner.....and always ALWAYS try to get the good guy to look bad.....
"why did you murder that young thug with an assault rifle?"
seen it happen here in Dallas........
so.......................do you want your $2,000.00 ar15dotcom special locked up in the pokie for however long.....?
or do you just go trot on down to the walmart and get a new 870 synthetic and call it good at $479.00 replacement ? </div></div>
Again. Rather than paying any attention to the post, you just blather on.
I did not say anything about a $2,000 AR.15dotcom Special?? Where do you come up with that stuff?? I specifically asked about a standard lightweight 16" AR with a possible trigger upgrade. Possible trigger upgrade.
At least you stopped cussing. That is a good thing, thank you for that. A good Christian conversatin is always best IMO.
For some reason you seem to have a problem with AR15.com. I know nothing about your argument with them. But I am not sure what place it has here in this post.
I do apreciate your comments about a shotgun being a great home protection firearm. And I actually do agree with you 100%. And I already have one of those, thank you.
I apologize to all the other members who have to read these arguments. But that just comes with the internet. And thank the rest of you for your answers about the AR. I will be looking into all of them. Thanks Again, Tom.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some missed the point .....
after any shooting/home invasion the gun gets confiscated.....
the media comes and do some ambush journalism on the home owner.....and always ALWAYS try to get the good guy to look bad.....
"why did you murder that young thug with an assault rifle?"
seen it happen here in Dallas........
so.......................do you want your $2,000.00 ar15dotcom special locked up in the pokie for however long.....?
or do you just go trot on down to the walmart and get a new 870 synthetic and call it good at $479.00 replacement ? </div></div>
Again. Rather than paying any attention to the post, you just blather on.
I did not say anything about a $2,000 AR.15dotcom Special?? Where do you come up with that stuff?? I specifically asked about a standard lightweight 16" AR with a possible trigger upgrade. Possible trigger upgrade.
At least you stopped cussing. That is a good thing, thank you for that. A good Christian conversatin is always best IMO.
For some reason you seem to have a problem with AR15.com. I know nothing about your argument with them. But I am not sure what place it has here in this post.
I do apreciate your comments about a shotgun being a great home protection firearm. And I actually do agree with you 100%. And I already have one of those, thank you.
I apologize to all the other members who have to read these arguments. But that just comes with the internet. And thank the rest of you for your answers about the AR. I will be looking into all of them. Thanks Again, Tom.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some missed the point .....
after any shooting/home invasion the gun gets confiscated.....
the media comes and do some ambush journalism on the home owner.....and always ALWAYS try to get the good guy to look bad.....
"why did you murder that young thug with an assault rifle?"
seen it happen here in Dallas........
so.......................do you want your $2,000.00 ar15dotcom special locked up in the pokie for however long.....?
or do you just go trot on down to the walmart and get a new 870 synthetic and call it good at $479.00 replacement ? </div></div>
So what happens in Dallas must be how it goes down everywhere else all the time, right?
Wrong.
Tell you what. Concern yourself with your own affairs. The rest of us are men enough to figure this out and deal with it on our own.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">some missed the point .....
after any shooting/home invasion the gun gets confiscated.....
the media comes and do some ambush journalism on the home owner.....and always ALWAYS try to get the good guy to look bad.....
"why did you murder that young thug with an assault rifle?"
seen it happen here in Dallas........
so.......................do you want your $2,000.00 ar15dotcom special locked up in the pokie for however long.....?
or do you just go trot on down to the walmart and get a new 870 synthetic and call it good at $479.00 replacement ? </div></div>
So what happens in Dallas must be how it goes down everywhere else all the time, right?
Wrong.
Tell you what. Concern yourself with your own affairs. The rest of us are men enough to figure this out and deal with it on our own.
Re: Home protection Rifle
Buy an M4 preferably in 14.5" due to its better manuverability it tight confinements, and add a Geissele DMR trigger.
Buy an M4 preferably in 14.5" due to its better manuverability it tight confinements, and add a Geissele DMR trigger.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">home protection rifle is called a shotgun
just sayin </div></div>
Damn Bolt...ya stole my line......
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">home protection rifle is called a shotgun
just sayin </div></div>
Damn Bolt...ya stole my line......
+1
Re: Home protection Rifle
You dont need a fancy aftermarket trigger. The standard A2 parts kit is fully capable. Buy a namebrand AR. Buy some decent ammo. Practice. I offhand farther than 200 with a standard trigger, do people realize that with proper trigger control the break point/weight is borderline irrelevant as long as its within reasonable values?
You dont need a fancy aftermarket trigger. The standard A2 parts kit is fully capable. Buy a namebrand AR. Buy some decent ammo. Practice. I offhand farther than 200 with a standard trigger, do people realize that with proper trigger control the break point/weight is borderline irrelevant as long as its within reasonable values?
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If I am wrong I am wrong, but I can't correct my ignorance without positive data to replace it. </div></div>
However it's not a block of gel that's going to break into your house, rape your dog, kill your wife and steal your TV. It's easy to kill a human. It's hard to kill them fast. Learning to do it can take a lifetime. How long that is, is up to you.
</div></div>
Am I the only one that read verbatime "rape your dog"? FFS I'd almost let the sick sob have a go for awhile to see if it was a legit dog-rape and see what kind of canine I owned, then of course end it with a sense of purpose.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If I am wrong I am wrong, but I can't correct my ignorance without positive data to replace it. </div></div>
However it's not a block of gel that's going to break into your house, rape your dog, kill your wife and steal your TV. It's easy to kill a human. It's hard to kill them fast. Learning to do it can take a lifetime. How long that is, is up to you.
</div></div>
Am I the only one that read verbatime "rape your dog"? FFS I'd almost let the sick sob have a go for awhile to see if it was a legit dog-rape and see what kind of canine I owned, then of course end it with a sense of purpose.
Re: Home protection Rifle
geez, I go on a 3 day field trip with my 10 yr old and I miss all of this??? I'm gonna have to get one of those smart phones to keep up.
geez, I go on a 3 day field trip with my 10 yr old and I miss all of this??? I'm gonna have to get one of those smart phones to keep up.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barikade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont need a fancy aftermarket trigger. The standard A2 parts kit is fully capable. Buy a namebrand AR. Buy some decent ammo. Practice. I offhand farther than 200 with a standard trigger, do people realize that with proper trigger control the break point/weight is borderline irrelevant as long as its within reasonable values? </div></div>
I agree with you on not needing an aftermarket trigger, but the OP specifically said he wanted one, so I pointed out the one I felt was best. I don't think he would go wrong either way.
If I were building another home defence AR the one place I would deviate from the OP is in adding an Aimpoint rather than sticking with irons. At least for me, I find the aimpoint much faster, especially in low light conditions. The Aimpoint would be far more important than the trigger for home protection distances.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Barikade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont need a fancy aftermarket trigger. The standard A2 parts kit is fully capable. Buy a namebrand AR. Buy some decent ammo. Practice. I offhand farther than 200 with a standard trigger, do people realize that with proper trigger control the break point/weight is borderline irrelevant as long as its within reasonable values? </div></div>
I agree with you on not needing an aftermarket trigger, but the OP specifically said he wanted one, so I pointed out the one I felt was best. I don't think he would go wrong either way.
If I were building another home defence AR the one place I would deviate from the OP is in adding an Aimpoint rather than sticking with irons. At least for me, I find the aimpoint much faster, especially in low light conditions. The Aimpoint would be far more important than the trigger for home protection distances.
Re: Home protection Rifle
My .02¢ if you go with the ar platform would be to keep it simple a light is a must. Make sure you know how it work it extremely well. Having said that my choice for home defense is a 12 GA. Shotgun with low recoil 00 Buck. Over the years I've seen the results birdshot on people while it looks bad on the surface I'm not 100% sure that it would be my choice for a home defense round.
My .02¢ if you go with the ar platform would be to keep it simple a light is a must. Make sure you know how it work it extremely well. Having said that my choice for home defense is a 12 GA. Shotgun with low recoil 00 Buck. Over the years I've seen the results birdshot on people while it looks bad on the surface I'm not 100% sure that it would be my choice for a home defense round.
Re: Home protection Rifle
If you want a 5.56 rifle, I would add either a) electronic ear pro or b) a suppressor. You might do well with both. Shooting 5.56 indoors even with plugs will give you a headache and without them it will really mess you up. I'm not just talking long-term hearing loss, but short term disorientation, which is bad if target 1 has a buddy.
Speaking to the OP, I would say the Rock River would be my pick. Lots of options, great factory trigger and top-notch accuracy for a rack-grade gun.
If you want a 5.56 rifle, I would add either a) electronic ear pro or b) a suppressor. You might do well with both. Shooting 5.56 indoors even with plugs will give you a headache and without them it will really mess you up. I'm not just talking long-term hearing loss, but short term disorientation, which is bad if target 1 has a buddy.
Speaking to the OP, I would say the Rock River would be my pick. Lots of options, great factory trigger and top-notch accuracy for a rack-grade gun.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a 5.56 rifle, I would add either a) electronic ear pro or b) a suppressor. You might do well with both. Shooting 5.56 indoors even with plugs will give you a headache and without them it will really mess you up. I'm not just talking long-term hearing loss, but short term disorientation, which is bad if target 1 has a buddy.</div></div>
Never experienced "auditory exclusion" have you?
I have yet to be able to find conclusive evidence on if hearing damage still occurs, it's quite common for a participant in a life threatening event to not hear the sound of gunshots, flashbangs, etc.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a 5.56 rifle, I would add either a) electronic ear pro or b) a suppressor. You might do well with both. Shooting 5.56 indoors even with plugs will give you a headache and without them it will really mess you up. I'm not just talking long-term hearing loss, but short term disorientation, which is bad if target 1 has a buddy.</div></div>
Never experienced "auditory exclusion" have you?
I have yet to be able to find conclusive evidence on if hearing damage still occurs, it's quite common for a participant in a life threatening event to not hear the sound of gunshots, flashbangs, etc.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a 5.56 rifle, I would add either a) electronic ear pro or b) a suppressor. You might do well with both. Shooting 5.56 indoors even with plugs will give you a headache and without them it will really mess you up. I'm not just talking long-term hearing loss, but short term disorientation, which is bad if target 1 has a buddy.</div></div>
Never experienced "auditory exclusion" have you?
I have yet to be able to find conclusive evidence on if hearing damage still occurs, it's quite common for a participant in a life threatening event to not hear the sound of gunshots, flashbangs, etc. </div></div>
I am counting on auditory exclusion for my home defense scenario. Many hunters have experienced auditory exclusion, it usually happens right after you get over "buck fever".
To the OP, the most important part of home defense is having a plan and practicing it on occasion. Shotgun/AR/Pistol...they are all better than a pointy stick or just a cell phone by the bed. I prefer a high capacity pistol e.g. Glock 17 with night sights and two mags. I also have a decent flashlight on the night stand along with my cellphone and spare batteries for the flashlight. It sounds silly, but turn off all the lights...get in bed and PRACTICE getting out of the covers and finding your firearm and flashlight in the dark. Practice moving through you house quickly and quietly. I am not talking about tactical tommy commando clearing each room. I personally have one child, my objective in a home invasion is to get her safely back to my room, wifey calls 911 while I barricade the door. If the home invader wants to come into my room,,,, then and only then will I fire. I will not actively try to clear each room and engage the 'tango'. As much as I would like to go berserk on a home invader the rule of law in our society will take my training, interests and passion for shooting and use it against me in a situation like that. I will secure my family safely, retreat to the safest area of the house and if that stupid fucker wants to die he can kick in my bedroom door and meet his maker. I believe my situation will keep the upper hand on my side.. both tactically and legally. It sucks but I feel that the legal burden has to be considered in my home invasion plan. I just wanted to point that out since I haven't seen much focus on that in this thread. The firearm you choose should be familiar to you. Beyond that it is better than not having a plan and just sitting in your house waiting to see what kind of sick fuck thought it would be fun to break in.
I remember a police officer buddy told me this once... he is referring to home invaders.
"Most home invasions happen during the day, if someone is breaking in at night it is either something personally with the home owners or they are fucking crazy."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stiletto raggio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you want a 5.56 rifle, I would add either a) electronic ear pro or b) a suppressor. You might do well with both. Shooting 5.56 indoors even with plugs will give you a headache and without them it will really mess you up. I'm not just talking long-term hearing loss, but short term disorientation, which is bad if target 1 has a buddy.</div></div>
Never experienced "auditory exclusion" have you?
I have yet to be able to find conclusive evidence on if hearing damage still occurs, it's quite common for a participant in a life threatening event to not hear the sound of gunshots, flashbangs, etc. </div></div>
I am counting on auditory exclusion for my home defense scenario. Many hunters have experienced auditory exclusion, it usually happens right after you get over "buck fever".
To the OP, the most important part of home defense is having a plan and practicing it on occasion. Shotgun/AR/Pistol...they are all better than a pointy stick or just a cell phone by the bed. I prefer a high capacity pistol e.g. Glock 17 with night sights and two mags. I also have a decent flashlight on the night stand along with my cellphone and spare batteries for the flashlight. It sounds silly, but turn off all the lights...get in bed and PRACTICE getting out of the covers and finding your firearm and flashlight in the dark. Practice moving through you house quickly and quietly. I am not talking about tactical tommy commando clearing each room. I personally have one child, my objective in a home invasion is to get her safely back to my room, wifey calls 911 while I barricade the door. If the home invader wants to come into my room,,,, then and only then will I fire. I will not actively try to clear each room and engage the 'tango'. As much as I would like to go berserk on a home invader the rule of law in our society will take my training, interests and passion for shooting and use it against me in a situation like that. I will secure my family safely, retreat to the safest area of the house and if that stupid fucker wants to die he can kick in my bedroom door and meet his maker. I believe my situation will keep the upper hand on my side.. both tactically and legally. It sucks but I feel that the legal burden has to be considered in my home invasion plan. I just wanted to point that out since I haven't seen much focus on that in this thread. The firearm you choose should be familiar to you. Beyond that it is better than not having a plan and just sitting in your house waiting to see what kind of sick fuck thought it would be fun to break in.
I remember a police officer buddy told me this once... he is referring to home invaders.
"Most home invasions happen during the day, if someone is breaking in at night it is either something personally with the home owners or they are fucking crazy."
Re: Home protection Rifle
Grab a remington 870 tactical or similar and your good to go. Load it with buck shot and keep it locked up from the kiddies if you have any in the house.
Also some good range time and some home defense practice drills wouldnt be a bad idea either.
Grab a remington 870 tactical or similar and your good to go. Load it with buck shot and keep it locked up from the kiddies if you have any in the house.
Also some good range time and some home defense practice drills wouldnt be a bad idea either.
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sulenski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Grab a remington 870 tactical or similar and your good to go. Load it with buck shot and keep it locked up from the kiddies if you have any in the house.
Also some good range time and some home defense practice drills wouldnt be a bad idea either. </div></div>
Agreed. A good training class is a good idea also.
I took this one: http://www.oregonfirearmsacademy.com/courses/shotgun.htm
Lots to learn.
BMT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sulenski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Grab a remington 870 tactical or similar and your good to go. Load it with buck shot and keep it locked up from the kiddies if you have any in the house.
Also some good range time and some home defense practice drills wouldnt be a bad idea either. </div></div>
Agreed. A good training class is a good idea also.
I took this one: http://www.oregonfirearmsacademy.com/courses/shotgun.htm
Lots to learn.
BMT
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love these threads.
It is quickly apparent who has no clue what they are talking about. This is one of those topics that everyone seems to feel qualified to take a stab at.
However they do provide entertainment for those who actually have the qualifications. </div></div>
+1000
Other subjects I love:
- Over penitration - still looking for studies that show the velocity and retained weight of the projectile after it passes through a medium or a series of mediums. Short of that you just have a lot of guys screaming that their opinion of certain death means something scientific. Most of these folks have never been smacked by splash......
- One size fits all - to include blanket statements about something as specific as a two stage trigger. Anyone that has ever shot a two stage trigger on the move or in traffic knows that if you aren't extremely familiar with that particular trigger in that particular weapon it is exceptionally easy to have an ND. Other blankets - it is one weapon over another. Never mind that it is the sum of all parts - how many dry runs you've had on your own place, that you have 'decorated' the house so as to place reflective surfaces, furniture, whole house lighting switches in the most strategic places, that you have hardened some rooms in advance, changed out the shitty standard door locks, used a min of 3" drive screws into the trimmer studs, put sticks in window frames and sliders, beefed up the exterior lighting, how you landscape...yada de fookin yada - no it's just if you have xyz firearm you are golden.
- If you used xyz firearm or ammo you will be crucified by a jury. Really? Got any precedent setting cases to cite or is that just something you pulled out of your ass? Think that needs to be tempered by trends and the disposition of your home state and your local community? Think it might even be worth cornering the local DA or a Judge some time to pick their brain? Maybe spend a few hours looking up case law in your state? Nah, it's the net - just say it like it is the gospel if you believe it.
Me? I keep an 11.5" w/ home rolled 77's and twin white lights next to the bed. Why? b/c I can open a door that swings into me with it shouldered, it is light enough to use with one hand, and the main reason - b/c for me, the manual of arms is the most familiar to me of all the long guns I own.
I know someone else that thinks about all the above as well - his choice is a 14" 870 with a white light, extended tube, speedfeed, side carrier, sporting 00 buck with slugs on board.
Knowledge and proficiency are paramount.
Good luck
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I love these threads.
It is quickly apparent who has no clue what they are talking about. This is one of those topics that everyone seems to feel qualified to take a stab at.
However they do provide entertainment for those who actually have the qualifications. </div></div>
+1000
Other subjects I love:
- Over penitration - still looking for studies that show the velocity and retained weight of the projectile after it passes through a medium or a series of mediums. Short of that you just have a lot of guys screaming that their opinion of certain death means something scientific. Most of these folks have never been smacked by splash......
- One size fits all - to include blanket statements about something as specific as a two stage trigger. Anyone that has ever shot a two stage trigger on the move or in traffic knows that if you aren't extremely familiar with that particular trigger in that particular weapon it is exceptionally easy to have an ND. Other blankets - it is one weapon over another. Never mind that it is the sum of all parts - how many dry runs you've had on your own place, that you have 'decorated' the house so as to place reflective surfaces, furniture, whole house lighting switches in the most strategic places, that you have hardened some rooms in advance, changed out the shitty standard door locks, used a min of 3" drive screws into the trimmer studs, put sticks in window frames and sliders, beefed up the exterior lighting, how you landscape...yada de fookin yada - no it's just if you have xyz firearm you are golden.
- If you used xyz firearm or ammo you will be crucified by a jury. Really? Got any precedent setting cases to cite or is that just something you pulled out of your ass? Think that needs to be tempered by trends and the disposition of your home state and your local community? Think it might even be worth cornering the local DA or a Judge some time to pick their brain? Maybe spend a few hours looking up case law in your state? Nah, it's the net - just say it like it is the gospel if you believe it.
Me? I keep an 11.5" w/ home rolled 77's and twin white lights next to the bed. Why? b/c I can open a door that swings into me with it shouldered, it is light enough to use with one hand, and the main reason - b/c for me, the manual of arms is the most familiar to me of all the long guns I own.
I know someone else that thinks about all the above as well - his choice is a 14" 870 with a white light, extended tube, speedfeed, side carrier, sporting 00 buck with slugs on board.
Knowledge and proficiency are paramount.
Good luck
Re: Home protection Rifle
Putting together a decent house gun for under $1000 is child's play right now. I'm in the process of helping a friend get parts for his first AR house gun together. Seems to me that there are a lot of Wannabes buying expensive bling to sling onto guns that weigh a ton, that will never be fired, or only fired off a bench. Not real practical for a SHTF house gun.
I like the looks of the stuff from Palmetto State Armory. They seem to be getting good reviews, and I haven't seen any complaints to speak of. 16" flattop upper in M4 configuration with chromed barrel (GI configuration), and auto bolt (from the looks of it) is $399. Lower Parts Kit with MagPul MOE pistol grip and trigger guard, and standard M4 collapsible stock assembly is $110. A rear BUIS (back up iron site) is going to cost you between $25-$200 (upper has the preferred taller F stamped front sight block). Palmetto State Armory stripped lowers are on special for $65 right now.
Palmetto State just ran out of the uppers, but when they get some in, we going to order everything from them, with the exception of the lower receivers(I'm going to get a couple of MOE LPKs (lower parts kits) so I can get the MOE parts (the pistol grip and the trigger guard are worth $29 retail by themselves), with one set of lower parts to build another AR for me, and the rest for spares.
I am not a fan of light triggers on SHTF guns. In stressful situations, your trigger control will not be that great, and a light trigger could lead to an accidental discharge. I'd say: put the gun together and see what you got before making changes. If the standard springs make the trigger too heavy, JP makes a lightened spring kit you can buy for $10 (hammer, trigger, and disconnector), which should bring the trigger pull down around/below 5 lbs.
My friend and I, are each buying JD Machine stripped lowers because JD is in CA, and we can buy them for $99 from the RifleGear,com retail store. If we were to have them shipped in, we would end up paying for an FFL ($50-$100) to receive, and for CA State DROS (BS) Fees, and we would not save much (Better to feed your local gunshops some money and keep them in business). I looked at a bunch of lowers at a gunshow and in stores before settling on JD Machine, and I can tell you that most of them look very, very, similar. The only way to differentiate most of them as far as quality goes would be to throw some parts in them, and on them, to see how well the parts fit. I can tell you that the JD Machine lowers have the largest magazine well beveling of all the lowers that I looked at, and the machining, and finishing, is flawless. I had a hard time deciding between the JD Machine, Mega, Stag, and LMT lowers that I examined. All were light years better than my first AR Lower (low serial number Eagle Arms EA-15 Pre-Ban lower).
So, you could build a nice 16" carbine with all new parts for about $600. Order the parts, assemble the gun, and shoot it. While you're doing that, look at the available accessories (weapons light and mount, bayonet, or may be a forward pistol grip, or how about some magazines, ammo, or a security cabinent?).
Putting together a decent house gun for under $1000 is child's play right now. I'm in the process of helping a friend get parts for his first AR house gun together. Seems to me that there are a lot of Wannabes buying expensive bling to sling onto guns that weigh a ton, that will never be fired, or only fired off a bench. Not real practical for a SHTF house gun.
I like the looks of the stuff from Palmetto State Armory. They seem to be getting good reviews, and I haven't seen any complaints to speak of. 16" flattop upper in M4 configuration with chromed barrel (GI configuration), and auto bolt (from the looks of it) is $399. Lower Parts Kit with MagPul MOE pistol grip and trigger guard, and standard M4 collapsible stock assembly is $110. A rear BUIS (back up iron site) is going to cost you between $25-$200 (upper has the preferred taller F stamped front sight block). Palmetto State Armory stripped lowers are on special for $65 right now.
Palmetto State just ran out of the uppers, but when they get some in, we going to order everything from them, with the exception of the lower receivers(I'm going to get a couple of MOE LPKs (lower parts kits) so I can get the MOE parts (the pistol grip and the trigger guard are worth $29 retail by themselves), with one set of lower parts to build another AR for me, and the rest for spares.
I am not a fan of light triggers on SHTF guns. In stressful situations, your trigger control will not be that great, and a light trigger could lead to an accidental discharge. I'd say: put the gun together and see what you got before making changes. If the standard springs make the trigger too heavy, JP makes a lightened spring kit you can buy for $10 (hammer, trigger, and disconnector), which should bring the trigger pull down around/below 5 lbs.
My friend and I, are each buying JD Machine stripped lowers because JD is in CA, and we can buy them for $99 from the RifleGear,com retail store. If we were to have them shipped in, we would end up paying for an FFL ($50-$100) to receive, and for CA State DROS (BS) Fees, and we would not save much (Better to feed your local gunshops some money and keep them in business). I looked at a bunch of lowers at a gunshow and in stores before settling on JD Machine, and I can tell you that most of them look very, very, similar. The only way to differentiate most of them as far as quality goes would be to throw some parts in them, and on them, to see how well the parts fit. I can tell you that the JD Machine lowers have the largest magazine well beveling of all the lowers that I looked at, and the machining, and finishing, is flawless. I had a hard time deciding between the JD Machine, Mega, Stag, and LMT lowers that I examined. All were light years better than my first AR Lower (low serial number Eagle Arms EA-15 Pre-Ban lower).
So, you could build a nice 16" carbine with all new parts for about $600. Order the parts, assemble the gun, and shoot it. While you're doing that, look at the available accessories (weapons light and mount, bayonet, or may be a forward pistol grip, or how about some magazines, ammo, or a security cabinent?).
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyone that has ever shot a two stage trigger on the move or in traffic knows that if you aren't extremely familiar with that particular trigger in that particular weapon it is exceptionally easy to have an ND.</div></div>
Bull. When you are on the move and precision isn't required, don't load the first stage and you are no more likely to have an ND with a two stage trigger than with a single stage trigger of the same weight. Probably LESS likely since the trigger has to move farther for the gun to go off.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyone that has ever shot a two stage trigger on the move or in traffic knows that if you aren't extremely familiar with that particular trigger in that particular weapon it is exceptionally easy to have an ND.</div></div>
Bull. When you are on the move and precision isn't required, don't load the first stage and you are no more likely to have an ND with a two stage trigger than with a single stage trigger of the same weight. Probably LESS likely since the trigger has to move farther for the gun to go off.
Re: Home protection Rifle
I think I remember seeing S&W MP15s on sale at Cabela's for $699.00. That's due to a grand opening at a new Cabela's in Allen and is also good in the Fort Worth store. I have no idea if that price is also good in all Cabela's.
My brother bought one 2 years ago and got a coupon for 5 free 30 round mags.
I have a Les Baer AR15 and wouldn't hesitate to use it for hd. I have several other weapons I can use depending on the circumstances and have trained with all of them. Just use quality ammo and have a good light.
Jim
I think I remember seeing S&W MP15s on sale at Cabela's for $699.00. That's due to a grand opening at a new Cabela's in Allen and is also good in the Fort Worth store. I have no idea if that price is also good in all Cabela's.
My brother bought one 2 years ago and got a coupon for 5 free 30 round mags.
I have a Les Baer AR15 and wouldn't hesitate to use it for hd. I have several other weapons I can use depending on the circumstances and have trained with all of them. Just use quality ammo and have a good light.
Jim
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Bull. When you are on the move and precision isn't required, don't load the first stage and you are no more likely to have an ND with a two stage trigger than with a single stage trigger of the same weight. Probably LESS likely since the trigger has to move farther for the gun to go off. </div></div>
Again - a blanket statement encouraging 2x stage triggers that the shooter may not use as a primary weapon - aren't intimately familiar with....shoot / no shoot (things that appear and then disappear) + traffic (other no shoots that may or may not be in your field of fire or background), and moving - that means any type of ground (including non level surfaces without great traction, obstacles, or great light) and full speed - not the groucho.
Yes - picking up a back up gun and doing drills, or stumble a foot fall on a non level surface during a drill only to miss the 'shoot' and end up hitting a no shoot 10' behind and just off to the side - had it happen several times over the years (fortunately not during a drill that had traffic). Pretty sure that many others that put in similar effort have had the same experience. Shit happens.
Good luck
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Bull. When you are on the move and precision isn't required, don't load the first stage and you are no more likely to have an ND with a two stage trigger than with a single stage trigger of the same weight. Probably LESS likely since the trigger has to move farther for the gun to go off. </div></div>
Again - a blanket statement encouraging 2x stage triggers that the shooter may not use as a primary weapon - aren't intimately familiar with....shoot / no shoot (things that appear and then disappear) + traffic (other no shoots that may or may not be in your field of fire or background), and moving - that means any type of ground (including non level surfaces without great traction, obstacles, or great light) and full speed - not the groucho.
Yes - picking up a back up gun and doing drills, or stumble a foot fall on a non level surface during a drill only to miss the 'shoot' and end up hitting a no shoot 10' behind and just off to the side - had it happen several times over the years (fortunately not during a drill that had traffic). Pretty sure that many others that put in similar effort have had the same experience. Shit happens.
Good luck
Re: Home protection Rifle
A two stage is no more prone to ND than a single stage. You should not even have your finger on the trigger until ready to fire. Why would you move around the house with your finger on the trigger?
A two stage is no more prone to ND than a single stage. You should not even have your finger on the trigger until ready to fire. Why would you move around the house with your finger on the trigger?
Re: Home protection Rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Bull. When you are on the move and precision isn't required, don't load the first stage and you are no more likely to have an ND with a two stage trigger than with a single stage trigger of the same weight. Probably LESS likely since the trigger has to move farther for the gun to go off. </div></div>
Again - a blanket statement encouraging 2x stage triggers that the shooter may not use as a primary weapon - aren't intimately familiar with....shoot / no shoot (things that appear and then disappear) + traffic (other no shoots that may or may not be in your field of fire or background), and moving - that means any type of ground (including non level surfaces without great traction, obstacles, or great light) and full speed - not the groucho.
Yes - picking up a back up gun and doing drills, or stumble a foot fall on a non level surface during a drill only to miss the 'shoot' and end up hitting a no shoot 10' behind and just off to the side - had it happen several times over the years (fortunately not during a drill that had traffic). Pretty sure that many others that put in similar effort have had the same experience. Shit happens.
Good luck
</div></div>
I haven't made ANY statements of ANY kind about two stage triggers being necessary or even beneficial on a home defense weapon. Speaking of blanket statements, how about what actually prompted my post:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone that has ever shot a two stage trigger on the move or in traffic knows that if you aren't extremely familiar with that particular trigger in that particular weapon it is exceptionally easy to have an ND.</div></div>
The ONLY way you are any more likely to have an ND with a two stage trigger is if you are running around with your finger on the trigger and loading the first stage. Which is (1) stupid, and (2) requires you to actually know what a two stage trigger is.
If you have a 5 pound two stage trigger, you have to exert just as much force and move your finger farther to fire the weapon as if you had a 5 pound single stage trigger. How exactly is having EXTRA PULL LENGTH and THE SAME PULL WEIGHT going to make it "exceptionally easy to have an ND?"
Answer: It won't, unless you are violating the cardinal rules of gun safety to the point that you don't just have your finger on the trigger when you're not ready to fire, you're actually ALREADY PULLING THE TRIGGER when you're not ready to fire.
If you're doing "run and gun" with a two stage trigger there is no reason to try to load the first stage then break the second stage AT ALL. Just pull the trigger when you want to shoot, and to quote a memorable post from some forum or other, "keep your booger hook off the bang switch" in the mean time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Bull. When you are on the move and precision isn't required, don't load the first stage and you are no more likely to have an ND with a two stage trigger than with a single stage trigger of the same weight. Probably LESS likely since the trigger has to move farther for the gun to go off. </div></div>
Again - a blanket statement encouraging 2x stage triggers that the shooter may not use as a primary weapon - aren't intimately familiar with....shoot / no shoot (things that appear and then disappear) + traffic (other no shoots that may or may not be in your field of fire or background), and moving - that means any type of ground (including non level surfaces without great traction, obstacles, or great light) and full speed - not the groucho.
Yes - picking up a back up gun and doing drills, or stumble a foot fall on a non level surface during a drill only to miss the 'shoot' and end up hitting a no shoot 10' behind and just off to the side - had it happen several times over the years (fortunately not during a drill that had traffic). Pretty sure that many others that put in similar effort have had the same experience. Shit happens.
Good luck
</div></div>
I haven't made ANY statements of ANY kind about two stage triggers being necessary or even beneficial on a home defense weapon. Speaking of blanket statements, how about what actually prompted my post:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone that has ever shot a two stage trigger on the move or in traffic knows that if you aren't extremely familiar with that particular trigger in that particular weapon it is exceptionally easy to have an ND.</div></div>
The ONLY way you are any more likely to have an ND with a two stage trigger is if you are running around with your finger on the trigger and loading the first stage. Which is (1) stupid, and (2) requires you to actually know what a two stage trigger is.
If you have a 5 pound two stage trigger, you have to exert just as much force and move your finger farther to fire the weapon as if you had a 5 pound single stage trigger. How exactly is having EXTRA PULL LENGTH and THE SAME PULL WEIGHT going to make it "exceptionally easy to have an ND?"
Answer: It won't, unless you are violating the cardinal rules of gun safety to the point that you don't just have your finger on the trigger when you're not ready to fire, you're actually ALREADY PULLING THE TRIGGER when you're not ready to fire.
If you're doing "run and gun" with a two stage trigger there is no reason to try to load the first stage then break the second stage AT ALL. Just pull the trigger when you want to shoot, and to quote a memorable post from some forum or other, "keep your booger hook off the bang switch" in the mean time.
