Hunting & Fishing Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

kraigWY

kraigWY

CMP GSM MI
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 10, 2006
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77
Wyoming
#1
This is for those who have acutally used, Berger VLD and Barnes TSX bullets for hunting.

Do they really preform as advertised.

I really like shooting Berger VLDs our of my 270 win. but I'm leary of using target type bullets for hunting. I havent tried the Barnes TSX in my 270 yet but am willing.
 
#2
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I've used the 168gr TTSX in my 300 Wby and my father the same/same. Haven't been overly impressed with the results. Just no real bang/flops, some cow elk shot 2-3 times, good hits before going down.

I'm trying the Scirocco next year and/or the hunting VLD.
 
#4
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

Kraig, I've used both and frankly, they both put meat in the freezer. That being said, I prefer the VLD's for their bc, and for their accuracy. I could never get the Barnes to shoot as well as match bullets in ANY of my weapons. Their respective killing power is the same in my opinion. Your service leads me to believe that you will be able to place either one into an animals vitals at your will. That is what is important. Period. I'm sure you know all of this. No disrespect intended.

Fear not the VLD or "match" bullet for hunting. Enter the possibility with an open mind. Do some experimentation by shooting into various media and see for yourself. This type of validation will not lead you astray, unlike the opinions of some who have not tried and therefore don't have any firsthand experience. I have started to keep photos of ALL the phone books I use in testing that way I can have documentation of my experimentation. The results of my experimentation mirror what I have found examining my kills.

Dry phone books are tough on bullets, but easy to handle. Wet ones are more realistic, but a pain in the ass as for as being heavy, making a mess with the water. That being said, I think the dry ones have a "smaller" wound channel than the wet ones, but it still gives an adequate representation of the terminal effects. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask away. Eric
 
#5
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I use the 165gr Barnes TSX in my new .308 and it's been absolutely lethal so far. I have not used the other, but can vouch that the Barnes has excellent killing power.

In my 270, I use Hornady light mags which I've also never had a problem with.
 
#6
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have been using Barnes X bullets exclusively in my 280 with a 1-9 polygonal rifled barrel for the last 18 years. In that time I have taken antelope, wild pigs, blacktail, mule deer, mtn goat, caribou and elk with it.

Accuracy is outstanding. It is equal to the Nosler Ballistic Tips I used previously. Three shots in 1/2" is normal with 130gr XBTs, (discontinued), 140gr TSX and 160gr TSX.

Terminal performance is picture perfect. I have recovered only three bullets from 42 animals. Two of them were at original weight and one, a 160gr FB that went through a bull elk diagonally, lost 1 petal and dropped 4 grains in weight. The wound channel looks like that of any other bullet except it goes all the way through.

I have taken coyotes and bobcats, (sorry I didn't count them) and they looked like what you would expect after being hit with a 130gr bullet doing 3150fps. Just a mess.

One thing I have noticed is they like max pressure. They are not as accurate in my rifle at lower pressures. Fouling has never been a problem in this polygonal rifled barrel.
 
#7
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have yet to take any game with the Bergers but there is a great article in Handloading magazine(August 2007, No. 248) that speaks highly of them as as devastating game load. I'm sure that you could purchase a back order if needed.

Suffice to say that they state that the VLD's in .257 and .30 cal. take some very tough game(New Zealand Feral goats) as good as any bullet that the guide has seen. They preformed a autopsy to one of the goats and reported that the wound cavity was about three times as great as any other bullet that he's seen.

Seems like they are at least worth a shot for deer sized game. Good luck and let us know if you try them out.
 
#8
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

Me & my buddy were on our first elk hunt this past year. I was shooting a 300 Win Mag and he was shooting a 300 WSM.

We both used 180 grain TSX and weren't impressed at all!! Basically a pencil hole on entry and a pencil hole on exit - not much damage. Thank goodness we both made good shots (double lungers behind front shoulder)or I don't think we would have gotten out bulls.

I shot mine from 125 yds & his was shot at 260 yds with the same exact results. I'll be looking at other options for big game!!
 
#9
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

scan0048-3.jpg


A couple of clients I guided for these bulls a few years back used 168 Berger VLD's in 7MM Dakota's....made these elk pretty dead. It helped too that they practiced with their rifles all summer out to 600 meters prior to coming out that fall..
 
#12
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I've used the 270gr TSX in 375H&H for game in north america and in Namibia. I was pushing it at 2900, and would personaly like to see this bullet with a slightly smaller hollow point. I didn't get the penetration on the larger game that I was hoping to. Every last one of those fired on the larger animals stopped in the animal and had opend perfectly, I personaly would have prefered pass throughs.

I've used the Berger 175 VLD on antelope and deer very good results. Animals died very quickley and reliably. All shots were either heart or lung none stayed up for more than about 3 seconds after being hit, and most were down almost at the shot.
 
#13
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

These posts bring up an important point. A perfect shot through the ribs is the goal and for that a .243 with MKs would be fine and bigger calibers and heavier, controlled expansion bullets with high weight retention are not needed to punch a rib and both lungs on even an elk.

The premium penatrators like X bullets are intended for the not-so-perfect shot.
 
#14
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have always been a huge Nosler Partition Fan. They are one hell of a great hunting bullet. Accuracy at long range suffers with the Partition.

I used the Berger Hunting 180 VLDs on 5 animals this year. Distance of travel after being shot for all five was 0 feet. I was very very impressed.

Just make sure you buy the Hunting Bergers. The targets style will punch holes in them with no or very very little expansion.

My shooting buddy is a Triple Shock Fan. He has kille whitetails and Mulies with great success.

But if you are looking for the ultimate bullet for both accuracy and stopping power..... BERGER VLDS!!!!
 
#15
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

My girlfriend dropped a 200lb class pig with a 168tsx out of my .308 and I work with a guy that has slayed quite a few critters with I believe he said 110 tsx's out of his 6.8 and loves that combo.
 
#16
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

We use 85gr TSX in our 243 and while the wound channel is not as graphic as that of an SMK, they penetrate very well and reach vitals on shots with poor angles better than any other bullet I have used.

On a caliber like the 243, that is important to me but they are probably overkill in a heavier cartridge unless hunting very heavy game.

Accuracy is about .5 moa.
 
#17
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

they do exactly what the Barnes tests show. Which is to say, they are about exactly the opposite.

Barnes is meant to stay together, Berger is meant to break down and tear shit up.

so whatever you want is the way to go. A few guys have said that the Barnes are more suited for larger Elk size game but i can not confirm or deny that statement.
 
#18
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

IME, the Barnes is a bone crusher...I shoot deer square in the shoulder and it works really well. The few I have shot behind the shoulder, pencil holed but still resulted in dead, recovered game. The TSX has always exited for me.

The VLD is a bad mofo and works as advertised. Internal devastation is impressive. Shit dont walk away from that.

The AMax aint bad either on deer size game.
 
#19
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

My only experience with Bergers is 190VLD's, 3080fps, from stock ran before they came out with the orange boxed hunting label.
Never on anything bigger than mulies.
2 antelope, 2 mulies:
In the shoulders or behind the shoulder, exits were fist sized, except 1 muley had no exit(200 yards). Antelope were 305 and 491. Other muley was 504.

Clipped a whitetail in the neck at 800, no expansion, passed through with pinholes on either side.

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">I've never shot the Barnes but really wanna.</span>

Correction: My wife took her deer with a 130 Barnes X from a .270, just shy of 200, behind the shoulder. Entrance side was blood shot entire length of rib cage, exit was around 1 and 3/4 inches. That buck went 40 yards before expiring.

kraigWY, I'll get you a pic or two.
 
#20
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have used both Barnes and Berger in a couple cals, the first one is a 300WBY I have used 168TSX and 210 VLDs. I have had two Barnes blow up and one turn when it hit a bone and exit before entering the chest all on elk, I didn't get the Bergers on elk but we killed five deer under 400yrds. Unless bone was hit they penciled through, if bone was hit they hit the dirt with a major wound channel. Bergers were dialed in at around 1/2 MOA, best accuracy I've seen out of this gun and any Barnes are 1 1/2 MOA at best.I'm loading some 185 Bergers in the 300WBY next year and I have a feeling they will perform better.
270 WSM with 140 Berger is unbelievable on big game very little blood shot with instant pile up, they go in just like they say and then come apart and shred a hole in the center of them, they shoot around 3 tenths in groups constantly and I have piled deer out to 798 yrd with them. The Bergers won't open on coyote so I thought I would try a 110TTSX, they shoot good around 8 tenths, they open and devastate coyotes and I think I may shoot them for my close range bullet next year instead of a Accubond.
The 243 shooter in the group shot 3 does quartering to with 105 Bergers and they reamed a hole through all of them piling them up instantly. He also shot a 298 bull elk through the shoulders with it and he never know what hit him, there was a 8 in section of spine that was shattered and we found the jacket under the of shoulder. He won't let me load anything other than Bergers.
I'm going to try some target bullets next year in some cals to see if I can get some controlled expansion, in talking to some of the Berger guys the nose of the target bullet is the same thickness which should allow for expansion but the body is thicker which may control expansion or stop it all together we'll see. Also going to test light melpat trimming.
Bottom line both kill real well but in different ways and you have to experiment and if you don't like that shoot a Accubond.
 
#21
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

i used 140vlds for my hunting this year out of my 7mm rem mag shot 3 antelope from 80 to 325 yrds they were all 1 shot kills dropped in there tracks. 3 deer also taking this year all mule deer from 60 to about250 yrds one shot kills when the bullet hit they dropped where they stood. im so impressed with this load in my 7mm it is the only load i will hunt with period. i shoot better i shoot berger. hahahah just jokin
 
#22
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I shot my first deer with a 190 Berger VLD from my .300 WSM at 378 yards. The bullet was DEVASTATING, I can't stress that enough.The entrance wound was .308 caliber, but the exit was about the size of a softball. It COMPLETELY removed her heart from the body, I couldn't find anything but small pieces of it, and the lungs were liquified. The bullet passed between 2 ribs and did NOT clip any bone. The bullet expanded quite violently, a little too violently for my personal taste. I try not to get any bloodshot meat, and I can't imgaine the damage that would happen if you clipped a front shoulder.

One thing is for sure, the bullets are DEADLY. I personally think that I'm going to stick with the 180 grain Nosler Accubonds. They hold together well, and perform more the way that I prefer. It's all in what you're looking for, but the Bergers are deadly.
 
#23
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have shot both, but the bergers were the targets VLD's because they did not have the hunting VLD's out yet. The berger was a 168 grain out of a 300 win mag at around 3200. I shot three deer, one doe at 200 yards in the chest DRT, one buck at 250 yards hit behind the shoulder no heavy bone and had a 2 inch exit deer ran 75 yards and fell over. The last doe was 150 yards and quartering to me. I shot her in the shoulder facing me and she took off like I did not hit her. Thank God she was in a big field cause she made it 150 yards before falling over with no exit. NO BLOOD trail. I went to the barnes and aim for the shoulder and if I hit the shoulder they are DRT if I dont I always have a blood trail.
 
#24
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat088</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shot my first deer with a 190 Berger VLD from my .300 WSM at 378 yards. The bullet was DEVASTATING, I can't stress that enough.The entrance wound was .308 caliber, but the exit was about the size of a softball. It COMPLETELY removed her heart from the body, I couldn't find anything but small pieces of it, and the lungs were liquified. The bullet passed between 2 ribs and did NOT clip any bone. The bullet expanded quite violently, a little too violently for my personal taste. I try not to get any bloodshot meat, and I can't imgaine the damage that would happen if you clipped a front shoulder.

One thing is for sure, the bullets are DEADLY. I personally think that I'm going to stick with the 180 grain Nosler Accubonds. They hold together well, and perform more the way that I prefer. It's all in what you're looking for, but the Bergers are deadly. </div></div>

I have a friend that shoots the 190 out of a WSM also and he won't shoot any thing else but like you said they can be violent, but it seem so far that you can punch them in the shoulder and they will not blow till there through the shoulder, hitting bone will set then of but not immediately in what I've seen. I had problems with the Accubond and blood shot, I shot an elk with my 270 WSM and I literally had blood shot from there hind quarters to her neck all the way down her sides, it was just in the seams and easily remove but, wow they start opening immediately, deer were the same.
If your hunting under a few hundred yards the Berger may not be the best for some but if your shooting longer ranges they really start shining especially over a Barnes though I kinda like the TTSX but it won't carry like a Berger, a lot of people talk about how hard it is to get a VLD to shoot in a hunting rifle but in everything I have loaded the VLD in it has been easy and in all cases the best shooting bullet, on the other end of that the Barnes have been miserable to get anything under 1 MOA which won't cut it for me. We have a lot of good hunting bullets available and you just have to surf through them an find what you like.
 
#25
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'"> <span style="font-size: 11pt">
I've used the 95gr Bergers in .243 for antelope - excellent results!

I've used Berger 130gr and 140gr in .260AI for deer and antelope - Excellent results! The 130gr grouped better for me.

I've used Berger 168gr in .308 for deer - excellent results!

Ranges were from 70 yards to 585 yards. All animals where hit in the front third of the body and died quickly. I'll continue to use them. Just started shooting a .300WSM and will work with the 168gr and 190gr Bergers in it.

Bob
</span> </span>
 
#26
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

earlier this year i witnessed a 1000yd one shot kill on an animal moving ,in the wind...the gun was a 7stw with a barnes 120grn ttsx....punched through the boiler room and the animal walked 60yd and layed down.
 
#27
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I got to see the Barnes 150 grain tipped TSX take four cow elk this year. Shooting them out of my 308 at distances from 205 yards to 370 yards. All four were one shot kills. One was a head shot. The other three were well placed right behind the shoulder. One of the three ran 65 yards before piling up. The other two were down within 20 yards. All were pass through shots. Everything I have seen so far is that the bullet has performed as advertised. This is the first year I have used this bullet switched over from the Sierra game king. This will definately be my choice for a hunting bullet.
 
#29
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

So the Tsx's just put a pencil hole through it?
And the berger vld's like seperate and shrapnel?
Im looking for a bullet that is going to shrapnel and just destroy the insides. I dont like my game getting away...
 
#31
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

Have killed 8 GA whitetails with 168 TSX's from my .308 over the last 3 years from 14 yds out to 210 yds. One neck shot-DRT, two shoulder shots-DRT, 5 dbl lung shots with very easy to follow blood trails (20-40 yds). The below pic is from a doe (dbl lung shot), impact velocity est @ 2450+/-.
Jan15_Doe_TSX.jpg
 
#32
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

Can't speak to the Berger's but know much about the Barnes, note my sig line.

I shoot a bunch. I hang out with guys that shoot a bunch. The guy I lease a couple thousand acres shoots a bunch, he also has a high fence operation that has lots of guests, I guide there some, and watch quite a bit..... I have seen lots of different bullet performance.

Summary is that any of the premium type bullets are good, your particular rifle may or not like any one, but there IS likely several it will like.

There are a couple that have had had consistently poor results, Win BT come first to mind. Having had to chase and re-shoot a couple of critters from time to time, I notice that rarely are the Barnes bullets guilty in those cases. Sure, not always DRT, but within 100 yards. Lesser quality bullets, in the right location, usually not problems.

The lower quality stuff ( Corelokts, some BT types, ) not placed optimally, usually equal a long track, or worse, lost animal. I think the main advantage with the Barnes type stuff, is the ability to penetrate, and stay together, while expanding and exiting. And was was accurately stated, hit a bone with the TSX, ( or MRX or TTSX ) and instant carnage. And it still exits, in one piece.

I have been wanting to try some Bergers, recently shot a pile of AMAX 308, and was OK with it. Blows up a bit more than the Barnes, but still all the way thru. I plan to shoot a few auodad sheep with it, as culls and a test. I have found them to be quite tough and take some killing. Pics to follow.
 
#33
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have used many diffrent bullets on deer and elk. Lots of things to consider. Twist rate is a fair factor when it comes to bullet expansion. core/jacket design, how it holds togther. velocity on impact. What is hits on impact. Had bullets explode in deer and come out all over the place and not kill em to blowing the side out and them not making a step. barnes punch holes and hold together really well. If they expand well the shock wave in the body does enough to kill rather well. Most unpredictable were sierra match kings, explode or punch holes I never knew. sierra game kings most always exploded. Even at 500 yards with my 300WSM dead was a sure thing with deer. Only killed 1 deer with berger 7mm 180VLD. It was about 750yards and didn't kill her with 2 hits in the chest. They just punched right through. Got up and ran about 500 yards before I put her out with a head shoot. This was after the 10 min walk or so up to her. I will have to try them again, they just shoot to good for me not to
smile.gif
 
#34
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

My user name has nothing to do with the bullet, that being said I shot 168gr Berger VLD hunting bullets this past year out of my 300 wsm with devastating results on a nice whitetail buck at 312 yards( went 5 steps and toppled over), my biggest mulie to date a 202 inch Boone and Crockett at 280 yards in Colorado and to many hogs to count anywhere from 40lbs to 325lbs and the Bergers performed great.
 
#37
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have no complaints about the 120 TSX in 6.5x55.
The load I've been using pushes them about 2900 fps.
I like it quite a bit more than the 120 Noslers I'd been using but that isn't surprising.

I've shot two deer with the 53 grain TSX out of my 223AI with excellent results also.
 
#38
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

It sure seems like a Barnes TSX makes a particular caliber kill 'chit above & beyond it's assumed capabilities. Take note of the guys shooting .224 caliber TSXs at deer, hogs, etc; on par with MLC's post...

Likely that can't be said for Bergers offerings?
 
#40
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have never used Berger's for hunting so I have zero experence in that department; however, I use Barnes TTSX bullets for my hunting rounds, 110 TTSX for my 6.8m and 168 TTSX for my 308 and I have never lost a deer. They expand well and make a nice exit wound.
 
#41
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have shot 9 whitetail. All but one dropped. One took two steps. I went to TSX because I was loseing deer.

I have lost count on how many coyotes I have killed with them.

TSX stands for Triple shock...

They don't shoot well. Maybe 2"/inch. SST and BT shoot much better. But TSX does just like their DVD... They will smack them down. I swear by them.


100grain 257 @3100-3200fps...
 
#42
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

Ive killed a few crop damage deer with Berger VLDs. Ranges from 50yrds to over 500. 168VLD @3100 via 7mmRM and 175VLDs @ 2750 via 308. All were bang flops. I was happy with bullet performace.
 
#43
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I use nothing but TSXs in my smaller/faster cals. My 223 and 223AIs have taken MANY deer with the 62gr TSXs. My go to rifle the last two years has been a 243 with 85gr TSXs. Nothing but good things happen for me with these combos.

I shoot Bergers in my 300WSM and 308 though. Both are used when I'm in open pastures or powerlines. Same thing...great results.
 
#44
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I cannot help with the Barnes bullets but I can add a little to the Bergers. Berger is now making a line of Hunting bullets. I've used them in 30cal for white tail deer and they kill like thunder! I used the 168g. hunting VLD and they shoot great and kill very well. i seem to get very good expansion with them and have never had a deer go more than just a few steps. I have some of the 115gr. 25 cals also but as of yet have not had time due to the weather here in the east to shoot any of them. I'll betting they'll shoot just as good as any other Berget I've ever shot. Check out the hunting bullet info on the Berger site.
 
#45
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

We shoot allot of stuff with the VLD's and they flat out work. 180's out of a WSM are wicked. We shot a Yukon moose a couple years ago. Frontal shot, dead center in the brisket and found most of the bullet in the hip. You wont find anything thicker than that nor further through. The wound channel was fist size for a few feed. everything inside was goo. It went about 4 feet and over backwards. Not too bad for being 400yds away.

Barns work well too but i dont care for them on smaller animals. Dad uses them, but after shooting a deer 3x with them this year i bet he wont again (6.5x06). I watched him hit both shoulders and one went a bit high and back. I figured it was dead after the first shoulder hit, so i never shot. I assume they just penciled thru, but we never found the bastard and he went a looong ways before we lost blood. First deer we never found.
 
#46
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have shot many animals with the Barnes bullets from Cape Buffalo to Marco Polo's. From ranges of 25 yds to very long ranges.

They are designed to penetrate and have always performed as advertised for me

I did loose an elk a few years back but that was my fault for bad bullet placement. If I was useing a more expanding bullet maybe I would have recovered the Bull but on the many other critters that I did do my job the Barnes did it's

A few critters the Barnes have done there job on
Rams07011_edited-1.jpg


Buff004.jpg


Alaska08082.jpg
 
#47
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

Kraig, there is a VERY long article and discussion on this very subject on longrangehunting.com. Quite informative. There are no truly magic bullets. The ones we shoot the best often seem to possess at least some magic.

It seems as though this always becomes a Ford/Chevy type argument. Like the dead deer on the roadside really cares that it was run down by a Ford or a Chevy.

Test drive them both and see for yourself.
 
#48
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have used both in Hunting applications and both derr were dead a s a door nail
I could not tell the differance???

Bergers are a great bullet and use them today. Barnes are a little harder to get here in Illinois
 
#50
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

had the best luck with barnes over the bergers for hunting i use a lot of bergers but have came back to barnes for my light rifles 223 243 257 on deer and hog size game but i learned one thing that trumps ALL bullet design SHOT PLACEMENT
 
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