Hunting & Fishing Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

#51
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I cannot comment on the Bergers.

The TSX for .223 has lifted a veil on what is/was thought of and referred to as a marginal caliber for deer. The bullets hold together and do not explode as most smaller .223 bullets do.

If you do not hit bone with this bullet, it will pencil clean through. I load this bullet for my AR as my kids hunt with it. They are more prone to get "less than perfect" shot placement, and I want to put all the odds in their favor I can.

For 30 cal deer hunting, I still use lead nose bullets. They expand no matter what they hit, and at our hunting ranges and the velocity I push them, they pass through. No more BST's for me, they explode at close range and high velocity and turn your 30 cal into a varmit rifle.

My 8 y/o's first kill last season. This is an exit wound in the neck that missed the spine from a 62grn TSX in 223 ~2900 MV. Shot at 75 yards, no expansion. Still Bang/Flop due to shot placement though.
exit1_resize.jpg
 
#53
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I have no experience with the Bergers for hunting for but I can say safely that a Barnes 100gn. TSX in a 257 Wby will do a number on a whitetail or mulie.
 
#54
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I don't think anyone will debate which bullet is more accurate (Berger) or which one holds together (Barnes). A premium bullet is not necessary on Whitetail, as a long history of Power Point and Core Lokt bullets will speak for themselves. I have been using Bergers for the last couple of yrs. due to the accuracy factor, alone. They have been devestating on Whitetails, so far. I used Barnes for yrs. and never recovered a bullet. They are two entirely different "critters".
 
#55
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kraig, I've used both and frankly, they both put meat in the freezer. That being said, I prefer the VLD's for their bc, and for their accuracy. I could never get the Barnes to shoot as well as match bullets in ANY of my weapons. Their respective killing power is the same in my opinion. Your service leads me to believe that you will be able to place either one into an animals vitals at your will. That is what is important. Period. I'm sure you know all of this. No disrespect intended.

Fear not the VLD or "match" bullet for hunting. Enter the possibility with an open mind. Do some experimentation by shooting into various media and see for yourself. This type of validation will not lead you astray, unlike the opinions of some who have not tried and therefore don't have any firsthand experience. I have started to keep photos of ALL the phone books I use in testing that way I can have documentation of my experimentation. The results of my experimentation mirror what I have found examining my kills.

Dry phone books are tough on bullets, but easy to handle. Wet ones are more realistic, but a pain in the ass as for as being heavy, making a mess with the water. That being said, I think the dry ones have a "smaller" wound channel than the wet ones, but it still gives an adequate representation of the terminal effects. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask away. Eric </div></div>

This is some of the best advice I have seen on this forum. Tip of the hat to Eric.

With that said, I am a believer in shot placement. Most bullets will do their job, if you will.
 
#56
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I'll post up some pictures in a day or two regarding the hunt described.

We had culling weekend out at the ranch last weekend, and decided to conduct an experiment. 6 shooters, same 300 WM caliber, and 12 different bullets loaded. Both Barnes and Berger VLD's were part of the mix. Only bullets represented by the manufactor as hunting were used. No SMK's for instance, but Gamekings were part also.

Almost 70 animals culled, meat donated. Only 2 lost, both trailing blood, both with same bullet ( pattern maybe?). Most were DRT or within 10 steps, no bullets recovered. Minimum distance was 200 yards, most shots 200-400 yards, max at over 700 yards, all lasered. All shot with shooter spotter 2 man teams. All shots taken thru front shoulders to maximize work for the bullets. We choose the longer distances to resemble a high dollar sheep hunt, where a single well placed shot may be the only option, no follow up possible.

Conclusion? Bullet placement, bullet placement bullet placement. Period. The two lost deer were at 400 and 700 yards in significant wind. I lost the 400, but had three other animals down within 25 yards, all hit correctly, same bullet. That one went down at the shot, but when we got there, was nowhere to be found. It was a bullet known for it's BC, but sadly, not for consistent killing. Same story with the 700 lost deer. Some blood, then stopped after 50 yards. Same bullet too.

Before anyone questions the ethics of this hunt. Don't, you weren't there.

Summary - pick something you like, can find at a reasonable price and have confidence in. Then, shoot a lot of it, gain more confidence and have fun using it. ANY of the stuff out there, including the varmint/target bullets do a great job, if the bullet arrives on the animal at the right place.

Mikee

Ps I will say, if you really want to test a bullet, shoot aoudad. At 100 yards, a 30.06 won't pass thru the shoulders, a 300 WM will. At 150 yards, 300WM to the brisket finds the bullet under the skin in the rump. I've got about 20 more auodad to cull, and think we will extend the test thusly.
 
#57
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I use Barnes Triple Shocks in my 300winmag with 4350 powder. They are pretty devastating on white tails. I took one last friday from 150 yards. Perfect shot placement, shaved off both atria and the aorta, plus destroyed the upper lobes of both lungs. dropped in its tracks. The entrance wound completely shattered a rib, and the exit wound shattered 3. No meat damaged as well. I dont understand why some people skimp on ammo, especially when shooting guns that cost some serious $$$. I always hunt with the TSX's. They perform well in my gun, shooting sub MOA...and If i do my part with shot placement, provide a clean and ethical kill.
 
#59
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement... Barnes would look at takeing the shoulder shot, to hit alittle bone and open that baby up alittle. 90% of the time it will shoot through the other side. Berger would take rib/lung shots as not to hit that heavy bone. Have used both on Deer, elk, and speedgoats. I feel that the barnes has the edge because it will pass through and leave a bloodtrail that most will be able to follow. Berger i have seen lots of them swallowed up in chest cavities and no blood trail to follow. But also have never lost an animal with either though...
 
#60
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

I think the TTSX is much better about consistent opening than the TSX. I have seen failures with the TSX but have not seen a failure to open with the TTSX. I run them light and fast, 110TTSX at 3400fps in my .270 and have been pleased.

This photo is an excellent example of two very different results when using the TSX, .308 150tsx at about 2800fps, 150lb blacktail broadside. First shot was actually called a miss, buck took two steps and showed no signs of a hit. Second shot was a DRT and massive damage. The first shot was not even confirmed as a hit until the buck was skinned.

First hit is that tiny red dot about 3" left of the second entrance wound. Exit was the same thing but was hidden in the photo by the damage of the second shot. Both shots hit a rib on entrance and exit. My thoughts might lie with inconsistent heat treat at the factory but either way going to the TTSX has made things much more consistent, that tip covers a huge hollow point.
Entrance1.jpg

exit1.jpg
 
#61
Re: Honest Opinion: Berger and Barnes bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pokes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement... </div></div>

There is nothing more to say, nothing!
 
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