Let me point out the lack of a water pump as well...
All signs point to "he isnt running coolant"...
HoOdRaT. 8.3 on a 5.3. All the Methanol...
- Thread starter LRI
- Start date
Let me point out the lack of a water pump as well...
All signs point to "he isnt running coolant"...
I filled the block from the bottom of the water jackets up to the level of the lowest coolant circulation port located on the face of the block where the water pump bolts on. This would be the "out to block" port with the ones above them being the "return from the heads side."
The idea being water is squirted in from the block up to the heads and then returned directly to the radiator. On this car the radiator is an absurdly big (way overkill for an alcohol engine) AFCO piece mounted horizontally in the car. It actually sits below the crank snout with the fuel cell mounted above the fans. The water pump is a remote mount Meziere. If you look closely, you can see it in the bottom left corner of the car.
As far as "lifting heads" goes I hope I don't have to deal with that for awhile. The 5.3 has always been plagued with this under a heavy boost condition. My effort to solve it started with using ARP CA625 head studs along with Athena head gaskets and the PRC heads shown. PRC's aren't "all that" by a lot of standards when it comes to absolute flow volume, but they do a pretty good job and the decks on the heads are nice and fat. Over .750" thick and that should help with all the sneeze were pouring into this thing. I think the hard fill in the block will help too since stabilizes the bottom end where the studs attach.
On that note... If any of you guys play around with this stuff and ever have a block done this way, the absolute first step is to install all your studs and torque them appropriately. I'm talking about the mains and the heads. You then fill the block but only do one side at a time with that particular deck surface level in both directions. Let it set up, then move onto the opposite side. A torque plate should be used for the head studs while doing this. Mix your fill much "wetter" than suggested as you have a very short window to work in. It starts to setup very quickly. Studs distort the crank bore and they will pull on cylinder walls as well. The hard block will add to this distortion as it cures. Line honing and proper cylinder bore/deck surface work becomes much more relevant when doing all this.
A little more progress last night. The correct oil psi sensor and boost control got installed. The sensor served as a good test for how I hoped working on this thing would go. Two guys, ten minutes. That's how long it took to pull the top end off. Blower, fuel lines, and intake manifold along with TPS, injectors, and boost control harnesses. That was such a nice change from the nightmare of crap I have to work with on my street car. (about a 10 hour job to R/R the blower).
Fun stuff. I gotta get to work.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 10,522
- 23,053
Beautiful car and power plant. I grew up around custom hot rods and have always had a soft spot in my heart for them. My brother built cars for company called Street and Performance out in Arkansas for 23 years. I went to school with the Brodix family kids as well so loud, fast cars were always on the streets back home.
Maiden from the driveway to the race trailer was a success on Saturday. Off to the dyno!
If you have this on a PC/speakers, CRANK THE VOLUME.
Hysterical, lol
-My buddy Corey shot this vid, trying to get him to unlock the privacy so it can be viewed here.
If you have this on a PC/speakers, CRANK THE VOLUME.
Hysterical, lol
-My buddy Corey shot this vid, trying to get him to unlock the privacy so it can be viewed here.
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@LongRifles Inc.
Do you recognize this?
I think I remember you saying you did a little test shooting there once.
Maybe it was that biathlon rifle you fixed up?
Anyways, was in that neck of the woods a couple weeks ago and when checking out the tornado damage up canyon, noted this and had to snag a pic.
BTW, snagged a barreled action of yours off here a while back and finally had it all together to shoot.
First group was .6 MOA and the couple after right at .5 MOA. With factory ammo.
So besides hot rods, you apparently can build a rifle too.
Enjoy your toy!
Do you recognize this?
I think I remember you saying you did a little test shooting there once.
Maybe it was that biathlon rifle you fixed up?
Anyways, was in that neck of the woods a couple weeks ago and when checking out the tornado damage up canyon, noted this and had to snag a pic.
BTW, snagged a barreled action of yours off here a while back and finally had it all together to shoot.
First group was .6 MOA and the couple after right at .5 MOA. With factory ammo.
So besides hot rods, you apparently can build a rifle too.
Enjoy your toy!
@LongRifles Inc.
Do you recognize this?
View attachment 7395359
I think I remember you saying you did a little test shooting there once.
Maybe it was that biathlon rifle you fixed up?
Anyways, was in that neck of the woods a couple weeks ago and when checking out the tornado damage up canyon, noted this and had to snag a pic.
BTW, snagged a barreled action of yours off here a while back and finally had it all together to shoot.
First group was .6 MOA and the couple after right at .5 MOA. With factory ammo.
So besides hot rods, you apparently can build a rifle too.
Enjoy your toy!
I've had a membership to that range since 2003. Once upon a time, there used to be quite a bit of lead in that hill cause of me. Don't get there too often anymore.
I guess you’ve totally ditched the Grand Touring concept 
Sorry sir you are no longer Gran Turismo Omologato! My daily driver
Sorry sir you are no longer Gran Turismo Omologato! My daily driver
I guess you’ve totally ditched the Grand Touring concept
I own a handful of late model Pontiacs. 3 GTO's and a G8. We have all the bases covered...lol.
My Street car: 2004 with a Whippled 421 LSX I did a couple years back. 4L80 trans conversion, G Force 9" rear end, coil overs, Wilwood brake kit, etc. . . I bought this car new in spring of 2005. Roughly 1100 to the tire. I had to make the entire blower drive from scratch, -how I spent my winter of 2017 and summer of 2018, lol.
Progress... 421cid LSX Whipple.
GM Performance LSX block. 4.185" bore Callies Dragon Slayer Magnum crank 3.825" stroke double keyway Callies Ultra Billet rods 6.125" length Total Seal ring pack Callies HD wrist pins Moroso oil pump Moroso front sump 6qt pan Moroso remote oil filter Moroso crankcase evacuation pump -12 AN oil...
www.ls1gto.com
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Uh........Wow ! I’ll just slink off now with my stock GTO between my legs.I own a handful of late model Pontiacs. 3 GTO's and a G8. We have all the bases covered...lol.
My Street car: 2004 with a Whippled 421 LSX I did a couple years back. 4L80 trans conversion, G Force 9" rear end, coil overs, Wilwood brake kit, etc. . . I bought this car new in spring of 2005. Roughly 1100 to the tire. I had to make the entire blower drive from scratch, -how I spent my winter of 2017 and summer of 2018, lol.
Progress... 421cid LSX Whipple.
GM Performance LSX block. 4.185" bore Callies Dragon Slayer Magnum crank 3.825" stroke double keyway Callies Ultra Billet rods 6.125" length Total Seal ring pack Callies HD wrist pins Moroso oil pump Moroso front sump 6qt pan Moroso remote oil filter Moroso crankcase evacuation pump -12 AN oil...
Please in the name of all things American do a 8.1 496 third gen with Raylar heads with boost. They run the same LS computer. Just bigger everything!
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You can get this all day with an LSX 377 and some turbo work or a warmed up blower from whoever. Far better driveability and it'll actually fit into a modern engine bay and be accessory ready. Big cubes certainly get it done, but there are other options in 2020.
The concerns I've always had with "stroker" engines is that the geometry you end up with tries like hell to push pistons out the side of the block. The crankpin angles become pretty aggressive. The solution of course is a taller deck that will allow for a longer connecting rod, but then the costs just bottle rocket into the absurdosphere.
As mentioned, the work that can get done below 400 cubic inches is amazing. Smaller bores seem to be a bit more boost tolerant than a big one. My understanding of this is that it's just easier to get the fire lit and with it more compacted, the likelihood of a dead spot where ping n rattle can happen is reduced pretty dramatically. So long as the quench ring requirements are considered as boost pressure goes up, it sure seems to be the more efficient pathway.
As mentioned, the work that can get done below 400 cubic inches is amazing. Smaller bores seem to be a bit more boost tolerant than a big one. My understanding of this is that it's just easier to get the fire lit and with it more compacted, the likelihood of a dead spot where ping n rattle can happen is reduced pretty dramatically. So long as the quench ring requirements are considered as boost pressure goes up, it sure seems to be the more efficient pathway.
Ultimately, it's a matter of how much pressure can be made in the cylinder (Brake Mean Effective Pressure, or BMEP), how much surface area the pressure acts upon, the leverage that this force acts through, and how fast the whole damn thing can be spun. There are limitations to all those parameters, but for engines running any sort of compressor on the intake side, it would appear that the most effective combinations use reasonable values for bore, stroke, and redline, and attack the problem from the standpoint of maximizing internal cylinder pressure - cram in as much air/fuel mixture as possible, and then control detonation to allow this mixture to get lit off at the right time. Punching out the bore creates ring sealing issues, going to a longer stroke introduces its own problems (although what constitutes a "reasonable" rod/stroke ratio has changed over the past 20 years or so), and spinning to the moon is typically an expensive goal.
If someone wants to do big cubes the right way, feel free to explore the PLR 481X architecture. That's a bit expensive for my tastes.
If someone wants to do big cubes the right way, feel free to explore the PLR 481X architecture. That's a bit expensive for my tastes.
do you line hone and bore after the hard block has set?I filled the block from the bottom of the water jackets up to the level of the lowest coolant circulation port located on the face of the block where the water pump bolts on. This would be the "out to block" port with the ones above them being the "return from the heads side."
The idea being water is squirted in from the block up to the heads and then returned directly to the radiator. On this car the radiator is an absurdly big (way overkill for an alcohol engine) AFCO piece mounted horizontally in the car. It actually sits below the crank snout with the fuel cell mounted above the fans. The water pump is a remote mount Meziere. If you look closely, you can see it in the bottom left corner of the car.
View attachment 7380739
As far as "lifting heads" goes I hope I don't have to deal with that for awhile. The 5.3 has always been plagued with this under a heavy boost condition. My effort to solve it started with using ARP CA625 head studs along with Athena head gaskets and the PRC heads shown. PRC's aren't "all that" by a lot of standards when it comes to absolute flow volume, but they do a pretty good job and the decks on the heads are nice and fat. Over .750" thick and that should help with all the sneeze were pouring into this thing. I think the hard fill in the block will help too since stabilizes the bottom end where the studs attach.
On that note... If any of you guys play around with this stuff and ever have a block done this way, the absolute first step is to install all your studs and torque them appropriately. I'm talking about the mains and the heads. You then fill the block but only do one side at a time with that particular deck surface level in both directions. Let it set up, then move onto the opposite side. A torque plate should be used for the head studs while doing this. Mix your fill much "wetter" than suggested as you have a very short window to work in. It starts to setup very quickly. Studs distort the crank bore and they will pull on cylinder walls as well. The hard block will add to this distortion as it cures. Line honing and proper cylinder bore/deck surface work becomes much more relevant when doing all this.
A little more progress last night. The correct oil psi sensor and boost control got installed. The sensor served as a good test for how I hoped working on this thing would go. Two guys, ten minutes. That's how long it took to pull the top end off. Blower, fuel lines, and intake manifold along with TPS, injectors, and boost control harnesses. That was such a nice change from the nightmare of crap I have to work with on my street car. (about a 10 hour job to R/R the blower).
Fun stuff. I gotta get to work.
Absolutely! That shit pushes the block around something fierce once its cured. Holes turn into eggs.
A little update.
Bought an MSD Pro 600 CDI box for this thing. Started to go through the wiring/installation and I decided to completely rip out and rewire the car. Much better now...
We fired it up for the first time in about 3 months on Saturday. Night n day difference. Not nearly so cold blooded anymore. They don't give those boxes away, but if any of you guys are running alky its well work taking a long hard look at this thing. Pretty cool. We've got the dash back in it now so its pretty much back to normal.
Bought an MSD Pro 600 CDI box for this thing. Started to go through the wiring/installation and I decided to completely rip out and rewire the car. Much better now...
We fired it up for the first time in about 3 months on Saturday. Night n day difference. Not nearly so cold blooded anymore. They don't give those boxes away, but if any of you guys are running alky its well work taking a long hard look at this thing. Pretty cool. We've got the dash back in it now so its pretty much back to normal.
If we break this drivetrain we've got bigger issues to solve. Rear end is good/proven to 3500hp.
Trans is good to 2500
Carbon driveshaft rated to 200mph
I can tell you that there has not been one nickel spared on this dumb thing. We kept it IRS only because that's how the car made originally. Its far simpler to convert it to a solid axle, but I like the challenge of getting this thing to lay hate with those cars. It won't happen overnight, but I think I can get it there. Time will tell...
Cant wait for May. Our opener locally is the 15th. East River SD (Sioux Falls) has a test/tune scheduled for late April. Were gonna try to get our feet wet there.
That one sounds good Chad! But why didn’t you go with a left hand gain twist huffer? I hear they are all the rage these days...
does it have the Two Step ignition option? I alway thought that sounded like 100% threat level when you hear one!
Holley Dominator ECU buddy. There are so many options with that thing its ridiculous. I've got a two step. It's triggered when the car is in 1st and the trans brake is engaged. I'm working on a timing curve now to ramp in a modifier afterward. More or less a ghetto traction control to soften the hit a bit.
We have the shock sensors to install yet and a Davies traction control is on the list of things to buy as well. Those things are bad ass once you get em sorted out.
I might find myself in town when you do the Dyno day. I’ll find a gas company and write it off as a business trip lol.
That supercharger is *the only* whining bitch I ever love hearing 
. Beautiful work!
. Beautiful work!
Your welcome to show up. It might be a little bit. I think were going to do a cam change. I had it in my head to set this up with a hydraulic just because of the convenience it offers. With the boost numbers were likely to hit its only a matter of time before we start pushing the intake valve open. Soooo, were going to rethink this a bit and do a cam, lifter, pushrod, spring, and rocker swap.
I gotta pull the valve cover and look at the heads again to see what Jesel setup will run on this thing.
It never ends. . .
This particular car has been mid 8's before. We got it as a roller just because of the chassis and suspension work. Chris Nichols, the founder of G Force Engineering, is who built the car originally. When these things were a "thing" 15 or so years ago he was one of the first people to begin offering products for them. This car was the mule that he prototyped the majority of his parts with. Once the platform leveled out and became old news, he dove into it and turned it into a race car.
60's have been in the 1.2's. He had a 440 LSX with twins. I'm hoping our setup puts it into the teens as were probably a good 150 or so pounds lighter. We'll see. Low 5's in the 8th are the number we are after. A 5.15 is good enough for a win light at the local track here in Sturgis. Any good 28"x10.5" radial tire is more than capable of running that number provided the car is setup properly.
It's -3*F outside right now so none of this is happening anytime soon, lol.
C.
