Hoplite Arms

[sirhrmechanic]

This is just to throw a concept out there but if 3-D printed cases are a possibility these days how far away are we from 3-D printed caseless?

I know it’s been a holy grail for something like 40 years but 3-D printing could really make caseless come alive.

If someone really wants to be at the bleeding edge of game changing, especially at super high pressures, getting rid of the brass seems like a way to go. It was being played with back when I was at General dynamics by a partner company. I can’t think of their name right now but I think it began with an x. Maybe exponent? They did a lot of explosive And propellant stuff for us.

Anyway given the advances in materials over the last few years and the interesting nature of things like 3-D printed cases where does the concept of making the case evaporate so to speak. Creating de facto caseless ammunition?

Just a weird thought for late at night. Cheers

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

And just like that....I have lost all desires in sleeping, lol.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[1moaoff]

A printable powder would be
Hmmm, printed over a primer?? No

How to do it with a standard bolt would be interesting!!!

Or go electronic like the early concepts.

 

[gnochi]

A printable powder would be
Hmmm, printed over a primer?? No

How to do it with a standard bolt would be interesting!!!

Or go electronic like the early concepts.

Primers are not the solution of the future. Spark plugs are orders of magnitude more reliable (when done by someone other than Remington) and would eliminate the need for the extraction cycle in a semi-automatic.

Caseless with powder polymer (think solid rocket propellant) plus the bullet, and use a spark plug to set it off.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Primers are not the solution of the future. Spark plugs are orders of magnitude more reliable (when done by someone other than Remington) and would eliminate the need for the extraction cycle in a semi-automatic.

Caseless with powder polymer (think solid rocket propellant) plus the bullet, and use a spark plug to set it off.

Electric ignition has been around for a long time. It was being done in some high end target rifles and pistols. It’s not difficult.

What is interesting with 3-D printing versus the old style of making caseless ammo which was essentially just molding powder into a shape… is that the new methods could be used to mix rapid burning powders in the center. And in the printing process, hard Material could be printed on the exterior. And yet that material could still be flammable or combustible or explosive. And clean-bu

You wouldn’t need an extractor groove. So the case would not have to be extremely strong in tension. It would merely have to hold up in a magazine and not fall apart. And not break apart as it feeds into the chamber.
Also of course would have to be environmental proof so humidity water oil etc. cannot alter its characteristics. But I see no reason why you couldn’t print materials that would handle that on the outside of the case so to speak.

Also if the case is going to go away it could be a mere thousands or two thick. More like a dip coating or a similar polymer wrap. I guess the trick would be finding something rugged but combustible that could be the outer layer of a printed Caseless cartridge.

The other big challenge is creating a chamber that is rugged enough to take repeated blasts directly to its walls. Brass eliminates any kind of issues with eroding of chamber etc. by isolating the burning powder from the chamber walls. However modern metallurgy and the choice of exoskeleton for the cartridge could mitigate issues with burning or destroying the chamber. Also the question of how tight the cartridge really has to be in the chamber is relevant. Obviously the bullet has to sit nicely in its forcing cone. But as for the rest of it if the chamber seals tight air space between the cartridge caseless walls and the steel of the chamber might not matter.

Lots of interesting things to think about. Cheers

 

[1moaoff]

Primers are not the solution of the future. Spark plugs are orders of magnitude more reliable (when done by someone other than Remington) and would eliminate the need for the extraction cycle in a semi-automatic.

Caseless with powder polymer (think solid rocket propellant) plus the bullet, and use a spark plug to set it off.

I agree on concept... it would be interesting to find a way to use 100% current action and body design though

 

[orkan]

Hi,

He is probably only running around 67-68k cartridge pressures..if that.......We going well beyond that, lol

Sincerely,
Theis

Hello,

I will respectfully provide some simulation data to help with your estimation. A 75ELDM jammed 60 thousandths, with a case full to the mouth of H4350, (approx. 47gr) with a velocity of 3935fps from a 22 creed is, at minimum, two times the pressure you mention. I'm not quite skilled enough with the software to create exactly that scenario.

For reference, the case head after that 3935fps shot:

However, I can create the scenario in which the case was fired 26 times. 46gr of H4350 behind a 75ELDM with about 10 thousandths jump. At this case fill, the powder was roughly 1/3 to half way up the case neck after being dumped from my Prometheus.

As you can see, the predicted pressure for those 26 shots, which maintained an average velocity of 3790fps... was well over 68kpsi. I've only just started working with gordons tool, so even if I'm off by a fair margin on my setup... I submit that the pressures would well exceed the 68k you mentioned.

For reference, the case head after those 26 firings:

I've watched the development of your action/rifle with interest, and I wish you the best success.

Greg Dykstra
Primal Rights, Inc
605-554-1911


-----------

 

[DJL2]

I think you'd need a pretty comprehensive redesign to optimize performance with combustible case ammunition. As noted, the chamber now sees the combustion directly - that means no brass to seal the chamber at the neck from gas blow back and no brass to soak heat and remove it from the weapon upon extraction, ejection. That's a two part part problem that you inherit as soon as you lose the case .

Beyond that is the fact that you can't reload something that doesn't exist - a significant issue for folks that roll their own. That may be exacerbated if the cost on such ammo comes in like True Velocity at $3.50 a shot. It paints a pretty bleak picture for what costs look like (at least before some degree of amortization occurs which might lower prices) to produce a plastic case you can't reload.

 

[W54/XM-388]

There was a number of reasons the G11 did not get selected as the standard issue space shuttle door gunner weapon.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

@orkan
Thanks for your direct insight. You definitely know more of what you done that I do and as I mentioned I am not the guy to discuss the guessed pressures via any of the simulation software programs. I leave that to the guys that know more than I do.

Can you look at the snippet from GRT that I put up and advise as to what data needs to be changed to match your actual loads?
ETA: Nevermind, lol...Your at 47gr. That goes back in line with my previous statement of needing to be more at 46gr instead of what was previously discussed in the videos.
Here is what I have at the 47gr load..

Either way that is awesome good brass from Alpha. I just spoke with KGM Tech suppressors yesterday about the exact same of that new Alpha brass!! It is definitely something we want to link up with Alpha on.

We should chat sometime!! We have the same "crazy desires" in some ballistic things, lol.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[THEIS]

I agree on concept... it would be interesting to find a way to use 100% current action and body design though

Hi,

Several years ago Voere from Austria developed and designed a laser ignition bolt system as to where it operated within a "normal" bolt and action body but ignited the powder in the case via laser instead of primer.
The "primer" was essentially a glass magnifier type system IIRC.

I do not think they ever offered it for public release though.

They also had the VEC 91 caseless ammunition system years and years ago.



Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Ledzep]

Personal opinion alert: You're going to need propellant technology to adapt to the higher pressures you're talking about. Also need to figure out how to test pressures. Current transducer tech has life length issues much over 70ksi with any regularity and won't work so well without cases. The drilled-case stuff is worse. As you can imagine, exposure directly to the gas erodes the sensor, too. Much over 80-90ksi is going to require entirely new equipment unless you like a bunch of holes in the ceiling

I'm not saying you can't make it work, but my prediction is that this high pressure stuff will prove to be on the wrong side of diminishing returns for performance vs. price... Some applications don't care about price though.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Performance always comes with a price, no matter what "sport" it is
Not everyone has the desire of running with an F1 car but not everyone has the desire to remain running with the Prius, lolol.

Now in regards to testing those pressures....well that is what facilities like NTS are for.
We already have the costs from them for all the fixtures and pressure testing.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Chickentoast]

Next stop GAUSS then DEW's! Crap, gonna need to redesign it.

 

[Boon20]

I am officialy too dumb for this thread.

 

[waveslayer]

I am officialy too dumb for this thread.

I feel you.. just buy a Hoplite it will make your IQ 10x better!

 

[THEIS]

I feel you.. just buy a Hoplite it will make your IQ 10x better!

Hi,

Disclaimer!!
That is an OpEd piece and has not been proven by the FDA, lol.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[1moaoff]

Chambersleeve might be an option to mitigate wear.

 

[gnochi]

Chambersleeve might be an option to mitigate wear.

Threaded-in piece of inconel or something, for sure. A couple notches on the back for easy remove/replace, and a taper and thermal compound so you get good heat sinking

You know, there’s also nothing saying that you need to be all the way up against the chamber walls, either. I’m imagining something more like a foam than a brick of powder, and centered on the bullet. Maybe inject a bunch of nitrogen when drying the slurry? Concentricity will matter much less for the ammo as a result; the big thing will be making sure the bullet is aligned with the bore and that’s much easier if bullet and brass aren’t fighting each other because you don’t care about fitment of the brass that doesn’t exist. If you’re super clever you could probably figure out how to spin process it so the powder mass concentration is radially symmetrical.

Also, the limit to how long the bullet can be is making sure you have enough powder behind (vs around) the bullet to ensure it goes forward instead of backwards.

WELLP guess I’m building a test cannon. With a very very very overengineered breech plug, just in case.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Can some of you start typing in English, lol...my translator is not working on this new Windows 11 upgrade.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[spife7980]

 

[Mr. Z]

Threaded in nerf dart lookin jobby made of hard stuff filled with boom foam and a boolit mushed on top pointed right towards the loud end of the spin pipe.

That’s what I get out of it.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Hi,

Can some of you start typing in English, lol...my translator is not working on this new Windows 11 upgrade.

Sincerely,
Theis

You already went to Windows 11 on your primary system?

Brave, very brave.

 

[THEIS]

You already went to Windows 11 on your primary system?

Brave, very brave.

Hi,

Secondary laptop

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[roostercogburn98]

English…………what country do you think this is

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Threaded-in piece of inconel or something, for sure. A couple notches on the back for easy remove/replace, and a taper and thermal compound so you get good heat sinking

You know, there’s also nothing saying that you need to be all the way up against the chamber walls, either. I’m imagining something more like a foam than a brick of powder, and centered on the bullet. Maybe inject a bunch of nitrogen when drying the slurry? Concentricity will matter much less for the ammo as a result; the big thing will be making sure the bullet is aligned with the bore and that’s much easier if bullet and brass aren’t fighting each other because you don’t care about fitment of the brass that doesn’t exist. If you’re super clever you could probably figure out how to spin process it so the powder mass concentration is radially symmetrical.

Also, the limit to how long the bullet can be is making sure you have enough powder behind (vs around) the bullet to ensure it goes forward instead of backwards.

WELLP guess I’m building a test cannon. With a very very very overengineered breech plug, just in case.

I bet That Serbu guy has some tips for you…

Sirhr

 

[1moaoff]

I bet That Serbu guy has some tips for you…

Sirhr

That's just wrong

 

[Terry Cross]

Hi,

Just for you @Terry Cross lol

View attachment 7723276

We are excited to be Teaming up with KGM Suppressors for not only the precision rifle expo but with some other collaborations also

Sincerely,
Theis

Excellent!

We are working all week not far from you.

 

[TxWelder35]

Excellent!

We are working all week not far from you.View attachment 7724495

Looks like someone needs their ankles stepped on

 

[THEIS]

Excellent!

We are working all week not far from you.View attachment 7724495

Hi,

O you are in Zachary and didn't invite me, lololol???
Might have to put the 338LM unsuppressed right by you next week, hahaha

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Mike Casselton]

Looks like someone needs their ankles stepped on

I noticed that also.
He's also a little too flat.

With that said, not everyone can lay their heels on the ground with their toes outward.

It puts way too much alignment pressure on my knees and hips.
45° is about all I can manage before it begins to hurt.
That fucks with my concentration.


2nd fella looks like a left handed plastic Army guy, but he's shooting right handed.

First guy is the only one that truly looks relaxed behind the rifle.

 

[Terry Cross]

Looks like someone needs their ankles stepped on

Yes sir.
That pic is from Monday and 1st day of our Basic. He's not doing that any more!
About 2/3 of the class in that pic. Big line and quite a few new to the gun. Like herding squirrels.

./

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Copper and Black for the 300PRC. Load development with PVA monos begin tomorrow. Mad dash for showcasing next week, lol.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[_Windrider_]

Hi,

Copper and Black for the 300PRC. Load development with PVA monos begin tomorrow. Mad dash for showcasing next week, lol.

View attachment 7724769View attachment 7724770View attachment 7724771

Sincerely,
Theis

dont think i didnt notice the bag rider

 

[Mr. Z]

dont think i didnt notice the bag rider

Curious to see if the show rifles get those milled mags too…

 

[THEIS]

dont think i didnt notice the bag rider

Hi,

I told you the other day we were working on it, lol

Sincerely,
Theis

Curious to see if the show rifles get those milled mags too…

Hi,

We will have them there for sure but we have some follower and spacer revisions to achieve perfect feedings before they go to any customers.
Luckily no short action conversions have been sold,

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Mr. Z]

Luckily no short action conversions have been sold,

You’re out of stock on all that you’ve made available

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Dude... he'es building rifles to shoot, not drop!

Sirhr

 

[phantomskittles]

I dont know if this was answered earlier, is the short action conversion going to be purchaseable by itself later?

 

[THEIS]

I dont know if this was answered earlier, is the short action conversion going to be purchaseable by itself later?

Hi,

Absolutely!! When we get them where we want them to be in regards to magazine functionality.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[waveslayer]

Can we order up a thumb rest to mount on the side of rifle? I used one on my buddy's AI and loved it

 

[ELR researcher]

Any plans for a presence at SHOT 2022?

 

[waveslayer]

Any plans for a presence at SHOT 2022?

Just touring and lugging the biggest wheeled briefcase he can fit in the aisles for all the free swag. Plus he's wearing a tight shirt with one of Mat Best's t-shirts on

 

[brianf]

Any plans for a presence at SHOT 2022?

I think they just confirmed the booth next to savage

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Looks like I have a couple new toys to learn the ropes of real quick for the upcoming expo.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[_Windrider_]

Hi,

Looks like I have a couple new toys to learn the ropes of real quick for the upcoming expo.

View attachment 7727434View attachment 7727435View attachment 7727436

Sincerely,
Theis

Did they ever do a mil reticle?

 

[THEIS]

Did they ever do a mil reticle?

Hi,

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[_Windrider_]

Guess that answers that.

That’s a busy reticle

 

[Baron23]

@GBMaryland - does your Revic reticle look like this one ^^

 

[GBMaryland]

Optics - WTS: Revic PMR428 4.5-28x56 MIL RX1 Scope

Revic PMR428 4.5-28x56 MIL RX1 Scope for sale, $2500 Scope is used but in excellent condition, minor ring marks, and one small scratch near the bell (see pics, its been touched up). Honestly, it really is a decent scope and I do like it. However I’ve been selling off my excess rifles because I...

www.snipershide.com

Pictures of the Reticle and hud are in that ad….